BajaNomad - What's the SCARRIEST thing in Baja?

What's the SCARRIEST thing in Baja?

M - 9-29-2006 at 11:47 AM

Well, we are getting some pretty good stories on the 'funniest' thread, how about this? whats the scarriest thing to ever happen to you in Baja?

I have heard in the past some interesting tales from Nomads so this thread should be pretty good. Here is one of my experiences.
I was on my third visit to El Tomotal and had driven as far south on the beach as Grunt could take me. There is a fish camp on the north end of the beach and I wanted to put some distance between us. I found a great spot between some dunes that concealed Grunt and I, then set up camp. I still had a couple hours before dark so I thought I would enjoy the sunset and do some beach combing. I have found some excellent whale bones here and even found a whole turtleshell. I wrapped a sarong around myself, grabbed a net bag and for some reason grabbed my machete. I had wandered for about a half hour or so, then heard a dog bark. That was strange since I was so far from anybody, but then I figured it was probably just some horny mutt looking for love. I kept going, stopping now and then to study something or other, when I heard another dog. A different dog. 2 of them now. For some reason, the nape of my neck started to prickle and looking around, I saw nothing. I decided to head back and having gone only a short while, I looked over my shoulder and saw a swarm of dogs move over a dune, about ten of them.
I like dogs, some of my best friends are dogs, but these dogs were not my friends. They moved down to the shoreline not having spotted me yet and I stood stock still. Then, a little terrior size dog spotted me and let out a yelp. They all saw me then. I was very worried at this point. They didn't move but raised their noses to catch a whiff of me and I clearly rank of fear. A big sheapard was the first to take off after me and I turned tail and ran for all I was worth which wasn't much. I moved down to the packed sand and tore off the sarong that was wrapping around my legs but I held on to that machete. I kept going but glanced over my shoulder and saw them come to the sarong then tear it appart. A tug of war between a couple of them slowed them for a bit and I gained some ground but not enough I feared. I grabbed a couple of rocks and turned around and stood stock still. They stopped dead in their tracks, confussed that their prey was making a stand. I started moving backwards at a walk and after a pause, they started walking towards me too. Grunt was only a hundred feet away and I was beginning to think I might make it but then that little terrior brat started to run at me. I threw a rock at him and was really surprised when it landed right in front of him. He was surprised to and turned around and ran right into the dogs coming up from behind. This momentary confussion let me close the gap another 50 feet but then they came at me with determined effort, I made another 20 feet before the sounds of puffing, chuffing dogs made me spin around and throw my last rock, it slowed them for only a second, and then they were right at my feet. I was swinging my machete for all I was worth while still backing up. They were growling and snapping trying to get behind me, but my wild swings with the machete kept them in front. I made it to Grunt and was trying to get the door open while still defending myself when a shaggy black dog leaped right at my head and I swung that machete for all I was worth. It caught him right on the shoulder and he let out a yell that was louder than my own. The confussion gave me just enough time to leap into Grunt and barely slam the door closed in time. I almost wet myself in relief and just sat there shaking. The dog I had hit was circling at the back of the pack, biting at his shoulder. He was bleeding pretty good but he'd live. I sat and stared as the males went around Grunt and peeed all over her tires. After about 10 minutes, it was clear that they were not going to leave, so starting Grunt, I abandoned my camp and gear. I drove down the beach about a mile but stopped before I came into view of the fish camp. I still didn't want my prescence known despite all the excitement. It was almost dark and soon Baja would be tucked in for the night so I jumped out and took care of some personal business then started to settle in for the night. My cooler, lantern and other inconsequential stuff was back at camp so it would be a dark and hungry night.
I had fallen asleep pretty fast but was awoken when a dog jumped up onto the windshield of Grunt and then slid down, nails scratching. Little bastards just were not going to give it up. I was safe inside but still creeped out knowing they were out there waiting for me to open the door. Let them wait, I had no intention of getting out.
It was a restless night, but I made it through, without much rest though. In the morning, the dogs were gone so I headed back to camp and gathered my gear. I was dissapointed that things had worked out this way, I had really been looking forward to exploring and trying to find some more mysterious 'rock circles' that I had found years ago with Graham. (Photos and an explanation can be found at David K's. website)
I went to the fish camp and spoke with a fellow who's name escapes me but he said that a couple of the dogs belonged to a fisherman that used to beat them. When the guy moved on, he left the dogs to fend for themselves and since they were scared of people they didn't stay in the camp. They did find some other dogs, and after awhile became a pack with an appitite and attitude. The guy said that nobody walks around by themselves because of it.. I asked why nobody had shot them and he just shrugged.
I havn't been back since then, but I imagine those dogs must all be dead by now, by accident or by age.
Well, that's one of my scary stories. What's yours?
:smug:

SoCalAl - 9-29-2006 at 12:48 PM

Wow,
I am a pretty calm guy but when it come to something like that my animal instinct kicks in and I would want to let the dogs have it. Survival of the smartest,oohh fittest. Well I would have been fit with a machete and a car, enough for me. A few months down the line they would have been collector items for another camper. And I would have always excused myself with well they could have killed me or some inicent kid. Sorry if some disagee but that's just the way it is. Man I wonder what I would do if I didn't like dogs? :fire:

Anyway, my scariest moment probobly came when??? Ohh thank God I have not had anything serious enough worth mentioning. Except for the occational mordida or break down, nothing life threatening has occured to me in Baja..
Hope to here more juicy stories.
Alex L

Cypress - 9-29-2006 at 01:40 PM

Bad Bow-Wows! Those mutts hadn't been taught proper respect.

Crab bait is the word that comes to mind. :yes:

backninedan - 9-29-2006 at 01:51 PM

Time share salesman

Packoderm - 9-29-2006 at 02:50 PM

On my next trip to Mexico, I plan on carrying around a sling-shot and a pocket full of ball-bearings in case something like that happens to me. Bam! right on the head - Take that Fido!

That's scary!

bajadogs - 9-29-2006 at 03:12 PM

I've only had 2 dogs show aggression toward me and those were American dogs on Vacation. I hope to never witness a pack of bad Baja dogs! I have not had an event scary enough to tell about.

A pack of Nomads

Sharksbaja - 9-29-2006 at 03:29 PM

All wearing the same hats! Ay caramba! :lol:

David K - 9-29-2006 at 03:33 PM

Here is M's EL TOMATAL photos: http://vivabaja.com/et

My scariest------

Barry A. - 9-29-2006 at 03:59 PM

------other than being stuck in the muck at Bocas Grande midway between BOLA and San Francisquito with no possibility of getting help (or so I thought)-------the scariest 3 days was when my custom made "baja trailer" disintegrated on the road from Gonsaga to Puerto Citos opposite Los Frailes-----and I mean disintegrated!! On, and in the trailer were my Gregor, 2 outboards and related equipment, and most of my camping gear, etc. While my son stayed with the "custom" trailer I had to make a long run to El Centro in CA to rent a trailer to rescue all my "stuff". There were lots of bad things that happened that trip, but the trailer destruction was the worse. I do not advise trailers in Baja----they just don't seem to stand up to the dirt roads.

I can count on you David

M - 9-29-2006 at 04:03 PM

to fill in the blanks. Thanks for the link. That's a good picture of Grunt and I. I sure miss that ol girl.
Great stories everybody, thanks for posting those. Keep em coming, I'm loving this.
M

DanO - 9-29-2006 at 04:08 PM

Scariest and stupidest. A few years ago northbound just south of the old Maneadero checkpoint, on the winding uphill stretch between the bridge and the top of the hill, I got impatient and pulled out to pass a semi that was crawling around the curve in the middle of the hill. Big mistake. I was about 2/3 of the way to passing the semi when a large panel truck coming the opposite direction, fast, swung into view around the top of the curve. I thought we were goners, because there's just not enough road to accomodate three large vehicles there, and the semi was using up a good chunk of the middle to boot. I floored it and tried to shoot the gap before the oncoming truck and I ended up occupying the same space (according to the laws of physics, I knew this to be impossible). The driver of the oncoming truck swerved so that his right side tires were in the dirt on the right -- where there is only about 2 feet of soft shoulder, and then just lots of air. I shot through the gap with only a few inches between me and the semi on the right and me and the downhill truck on the left, and watched in the rearview as the downhill guy somehow avoided rolling off the edge and wrestled his truck back onto the pavement. My wife really jumped all over me for that one.

Whew. :wow:

Bajamatic - 9-29-2006 at 04:35 PM

I need to take 5 after just reading that.

Diver - 9-29-2006 at 08:50 PM

Dare I say CHUBASCO ?

Have you ever had .... a living nightmare...

Sharksbaja - 9-29-2006 at 09:06 PM

been incarcerated and placed in an open cell with 60 young gringos and 20 badass mofo Mexicans. Held without charges and denied the opportunity to post own bail, call anyone or see a judge? Watch as fellow countrymen get raped, robbed and beat-up. Or suffer w/o water, food and warm clothes for days while others shoot-up drugs, stab other inmates and a generally scare the living crap out of you by the minute.
Did you ever read Midnight Express?
Say hello to Ensenada jail circa 1970.

Kept me outta that town for 25 years by golly.

For what, you ask of my ordeal......... para nada!

AmoPescar - 9-29-2006 at 11:18 PM

NOT My SCARRIEST thing in Baja...but

M...your dog story reminds me of years ago when I was Managing a large Retail Dept. Store. I was called to the store in the middle of the night when the Alarm system went off. I entered the store with a Police officer and his dog. As the dog left his handler to sniff around, he sniffed his way around a long rack of hanging clothing. As he turned a corner heading back towards the officer and myself, he suddenly began snarling, barking and moving towards ME! Well, I want you to know that...I just about WETTED myself!!! Luckily, the officer called him off before he got ot me.

Michael

[Edited on 9-30-2006 by AmoPescar]

Ken Cooke - 9-29-2006 at 11:25 PM

Having the bartender threatening to call the police on me after I told him I was, "Out of money." :lol:

Frank - 9-29-2006 at 11:53 PM

Mirror slap @ GN, happened so fast I wasnt scared until I was back home and changing the side mirror out.

AmoPescar - 9-30-2006 at 01:10 AM

NOW...My SCARIEST thing in Baja...

Was actually a string of things which happened, as my Son, his friend and I were driving South to the East Cape for a fishing trip.

Let me start off by saying that...I KNEW that I should NEVER drive at NIGHT!! But, we had gotten off to a LATE start from home that morning. Well, I allowed my son to badger me into driving a bit further, because they wanted to get there a bit earlier the next day, so they could get in some fishing time.

As we headed South on 1 out of Guerrero Negro towards Santa Rosalia, we were driving along with few cares, when I suddenly realized that the approaching Semi Truck was well into my lane and was not moving back into his lane. So, to avoid being crushed, I had to quickly swerve out of his way, which meant going off the right shoulder of the road. Luckily, the road did not have very much of a drop-off at that point and after some fishtailing in the dirt, I was able to regain control and get back on the asphalt.

Well as you can imagine, that scared the H_ _ _ out of me and my Son's friend who was riding in the front with me. My Son, who I had let badger me, was asleep in the back seat and never knew what had happened!!

Later, as we got further down the DARK highway, we encountered a man who was waving at us to stop. Thinking he might be a bandit, I was very leery to stop. But, as I slowed and rolled down my window, he cautioned us to drive slowly and be careful, as a bit further ahead, a Chevy SUV had hit a cow. As we passed them, the cow was laying just off the highway and the Chevy was 75 yards off the highway with a smashed-in front end.

BUT...that was not ALL we were to encounter that night!!! As we drove through the DARK downhill, curving, winding mountain portion of the highway on the way to Santa Rosalia, we came around a curve and the traffic was stopped and backed up several hundred yards behind an accident. A Gasoline Tanker had crashed on his way south and had the highway completely blocked.

WELL...It finally sunk in, that...WE WERE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE DRIVING AT NIGHT!!!! I told the boys we were not going any further and I made a U-turn and headed back up the highway. After a couple of miles, I found a dirt road and headed up it a mile or so, where we stopped and went to sleep.

The next morning, we awoke and headed South again. As we came to the accident site, the Tanker had been pushed off to the side of the road, so that traffic could drive around it.

And yet...our adventure was not over yet!!!! Shortly, we came upon an OLD Mexican's OLD Pick-up, loaded to the hilt with USED furniture and such, JUST LIKE you see on the freeways her in CA. As we headed up a hill behind him, I didn't feel I could pass him safely and so I was relegated to following him slowly up the hill. As we crawled SLOWLY up the hill, my truck, suddenly DIED! I stopped and tried to restart it, but, no luck! I told the boys to get out and off to the side of the road...just in case somebody encountered US. I let it roll backwards to a flat spot off the side of the highway, where after some coaxing, I was able to get it restarted. We had no more problems with it heading south, but had some at the East Cape and a couple more on the way back North. It turned out to be a Fuel Pump/sender problem, which the dealer at home was able to solve. While in Baja, one thing we found which would help get it started, was to stand on the rear Bumper and get the truck bouncing up and down. That was a pretty funny sight to see!!

SO, TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT...DO NOT DRIVE AT NIGHT!!!! IT IS NOT SAFE AND YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT DANGEROUS THING YOU MIGHT ENCOUNTER!!!!

AMO (Michael) :saint:

[Edited on 9-30-2006 by AmoPescar]

[Edited on 10-17-2006 by AmoPescar]

Ken Cooke - 9-30-2006 at 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AmoPescar
NOW...My SCARIEST thing in Baja...
SO, TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT...DO NOT DRIVE AT NIGHT!!!! AMO (Michael) :saint:

I hit a deer on the way north towards Catavina at only 5:15 p.m.! The Jeep was loaded down with gear, tires were aired down to about 15 p.s.i., the front swaybar was still disconnected, and we were going 40 m.p.h. Traveling around a corner, the two deer got stunned by my headlights, and ran out in front of me. He hit his head on my steel rocker guard, and got knocked out, but my door is still banged up. Brad Green pulled the deer towards the shoulder when the deer woke up and ran into the desert... My wife was hyperventilating the whole time...

TMW - 9-30-2006 at 09:28 AM

I can't think of ever being really scared to the point that my life may be in danger. But I have had some close and interesting moments. In 1989 my buddy and I were prerunning the Baja 1000 to La Paz. We had never been to Baja Sur before. On the section from San Javier to Insurgentes it got dark and since we were riding motocross bikes with no lights we decided to leave the race course and follow the road to the paved hwy. Well we got lost mostly due to only having a poor flash light to see by. Anyway we stop at a ranch for help and finally get to the paved hwy. We follow the white center lines to town. As we get into town 3 pickup trucks with young men come upon us yelling at us. Frankly not knowing spanish wasn't helping. They were driving in front of us, beside us and behind us. I really wasn't sure what they wanted, maybe they didn't like the race coming thru there. Maybe they were just a bunch of Sat. night rough necks looking for someone to hassel. Anyway we all head to hwy 1 and turn left for a couple of miles to where our chase trucks were waiting. We pull up and stop and the truck guys stop too. They were race fans and just wanted to talk about the big race coming in a couple of weeks. With all the poor Spanish and poor English we actaully had a great time talking with them for about 2 hours.

Taco de Baja - 9-30-2006 at 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AmoPescar

SO, TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT...DO NOT DRIVE AT NIGHT!!!! IT IS NOT SAFE AND YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT DANGEROUS THING YOU MIGHT ENCOUNTER!!!!

True that, we got a late start heading home after a last day of exploring and ended up driving towards El Rosario in the dark. Just after crossing the bridge near where they dry chilies on the hillside my dad hit something in the road that made his full size 1984 Chevy pickup literally jump into the opposing traffic lane

. Luckily, there was no traffic there at the time.

There was nothing visible in the road that made the truck do this, and to this day we do not know what caused it. We did not stop. We have heard stories of banditos painting large boulders black and putting them in the road to cause accidents and then loot the crash victim, but in El Rosario?

We made it safely to our camp spot in the mesas north of El Rosario without further incident. Vowing to in the future follow our usual rule of no night driving.

JG - 9-30-2006 at 11:19 AM

1990 got in a wreck North of Santa Rosalia towing a 21' cc. In the middle of passing a motorhome the drivers side trailer wheel left the pavement at 65mph and hit a drainage pipe support (12''x12'').

We were neck and neck at the time and started fish tailing...not good.... The motor home dropped back and watched us bearly keep it on the road until we pulled off in a turn out.

The axle had come off and drove the wheel thru the bottom of the skiff...bent the trailer and the axle something fierce. Got temp. repairs on site and full repairs in Santa Rosalia two days later. Bummed a grinder and some glass/resin from a yachtie and made it to Los Brailes to catch a 66# Wahoo!

I would recomend to strike a price before any repair...My freind got beaned but good!

Spiders

bajalera - 9-30-2006 at 12:08 PM

Spiders--even the little ones--have always given me the creeps. We were driving along the Gulf Coast near Buena Vista one night on that old road [safe after dark--you couldn't go fast enough to do any harm] when a huge herd of spiders suddenly appeared. They were black as sin, the size of small dogs, and all headed toward the north--crossing the road diagonally. It seemed like we traveled through them for hours [my phobia at work here]. EEEUUUU!

But besides giving me the creeps, this also made me curious. Do spiders migrate, or what? Anybody know about spiders?

capt. mike - 9-30-2006 at 01:08 PM

election day when they stop selling booze........................

Capt. George - 9-30-2006 at 04:20 PM

"el vikingo de Punta Abreojos on Tequila"

Halboo - 9-30-2006 at 06:19 PM

I think drunk driving gabachos are my worst fear down there.

One of the very few times I drove after dark in Baja....
About 25 years ago I had a pal that had bought Lorenzo's old cabin at Salsipuedes and we headed down late after work one night with his esposa, and another buddy for a few days of surf and relaxation.
Well, when we got to the locked gate(we had a key); parked almost directly in front of the gate was a late model (240Z?) sports car that was just becoming completely engulfed in flames.

Judging from the ever increasing number of rusty hulks I'd seen on the slope of the Mirador just to the north, I was pretty sure we had encountered your basic insurance fraud. They were possibly watching us as we stood gaping at the flames. However....
Our other not so savvy buddy, thinking there may still be someone inside, snatched the drivers door open and nearly singed his face off.
We ended up standing there; watching the fire, passing around a couple ballenas until it burned down enough for us to drive safely past.
The next morning after a surf, we went up the road and checked out the completely burnt down to the steel belted hulk; positive there had been some sort of evil doin's about.

Skipjack Joe - 9-30-2006 at 10:46 PM

Another great story M. Jack London would have loved it. I was once attacked by a couple of dogs and their teamwork in assaulting me was real scary.

The moving spiders were undoubtedly migrating tarantulas. They do that in the fall. Funny, I would have found that fascinating.

I actually treasure baja's dangerous adventures. They always seem to be the highlight of each trip. It's hard to decide which was the most dangerous but having my boat break down far out in the Cortez without help in sight ranks up there. Here is the story I wrote about 2 years ago:

I subdued the fish and tried to start the motor. It wouldn't budge. I freed it and spent the next 20 minutes trying to restart it without success. I started to feel a mild form of panic overcoming me. I took a long look at the horizon. The sea glistened with an oily calmness and there wasn't a soul in sight. I felt a shudder run up my back. Alex was still excited about the catch: "But dad, we caught a DORADO!". I got out the oars and started rowing towards Haystack. A blue whale appeared next to us out of nowhere, sighed deeply, and sank into the abyss. After a while we started to see the outline of a panga fishing at Haystack. We stood up on the seats and waved shirts and oars to get their attention. There was no response. The boat remained stationary. I rowed on. At first I rowed vigorously, but the sun was so strong I started to feel an intense heat in my head followed by a nauseating headache. I slowed down and stopped frequently to douse my hat in sea water. As I rowed and got closer the panga morphed into a commercial fishing boat and Alex waved and shouted still louder, again without response. Two hours later, hot, thirsty, and exhausted I pulled up to the vessel. A man appeared at the rail and threw a rope over the side of the squid fishing boat. Three young men lay dozing on deck under the awning while the remainder slept in the cabins below. "Didn't you see us?", I stammered between gulps of drinking water. "Yes, of course we heard you but we can't weigh anchor until the Capitano wakes up". I just couldn't believe it, but was so exhausted that I, too, slumped on deck amid the squid slime of last night's catch and kept drinking. Alex, on the other hand, was full of energy. The crew took a liking to him and, to his pleasure, taught him how to fish with a handline. We had the motor examined by a deckhand who concluded that we had blown a head gasket. By late afternoon the capitan awoke and towed us back to the cove. We thanked him profusely and I gave him our prized catch in gratitude (over Alex's protests). Our friends at the campground were relieved to see us and called off next day's search party that was being organized.

Capt. George - 10-1-2006 at 05:40 AM

"el Vikingo de Punta Abreojos on Tequila" :fire:

This was in La Paz

pangamadness - 10-1-2006 at 08:10 AM

Dont want to see this in the sea when Im looking for food

This was in La Paz, 2nd try

pangamadness - 10-1-2006 at 08:12 AM

This was in La Paz, 3rd try

pangamadness - 10-1-2006 at 08:15 AM

This photo stuff has me trubbled

This was in La Paz, 4th try

pangamadness - 10-1-2006 at 08:18 AM

Still trying?

pangamadness - 10-1-2006 at 08:21 AM

If this works it will show a very big shark with in a very small photo

la paz shark Last try 2nd.bmp - 9kB

Help

pangamadness - 10-1-2006 at 08:26 AM

Can any one tsll me how to make this bigger? It was sent to me in an e-mail

shari - 10-1-2006 at 09:27 AM

This is a combo of the scariest and funniest...a friend and I went camping in San Roque, near Bahia Asuncion (long before I lived here). We pulled in to the beach after dark and I set up my tent. While relaxing on the beach watching the incredible night sky we heard voices close by at one of the deserted houses. I had heard stories about narcos (drug runners) coming in here at night needing gas or water etc. and that they could be dangerous. This little fishing village is abandoned and there were no cars or lights of any kind there so I figured the voices belonged to the bad guys. I was pretty worried and we stayed in the locked truck all night and didn't get much sleep waiting for them to come and kill us in the night. Anyway, in the morning I saw a group of young teens at that house so I went over there....turns out that it was the teens of some fishermen there camping too and they were scared shi*less when WE showed up as they thought WE were drug runners cause my friend had a fancy truck so they doused their lights and music and stayed up all night afraid we were gonna kill them!!!HA HA..we had a good laugh and had breakfast together.

Cypress - 10-1-2006 at 12:23 PM

Shari.

Scariest thing in Baja is your imagination!! :light:

Capt. George - 10-2-2006 at 06:40 AM

Shari
be heading back soon for another stint. Got to see Chuy and his son, also mi amigo Armando & familia.

Stay in touch, will try to touch base with you on next visit.

gpurrm@hotmail.com

graet place, great people!! George

4baja - 10-2-2006 at 06:45 AM

capt. mike you kill me. :lol:

i agree

kellychapman - 10-3-2006 at 07:22 AM

large animals in the road....Alto only means Alto when you see someone coming, so eye contact and a wave of hand is always best.....little children on small motorcycles....doors opening when you ride your bike around town....just a few little scary things for me.....and that shark....now that is scary.... :wow:

shari - 10-3-2006 at 02:55 PM

Another really scary time was in Ojo de Liebre (Scammons Lagoon) when a huge gray whale named La Puchona took us on a wild ride. This particular whale was very strange and pushy and overplayful to the point of being a bully. She liked to push boats around and sometimes batted them out of her way like a cat toying with a mouse. Mostly we tried to avoid her but she would come looking for us to "play" with. Her favorite ploy to freak out the whale watchers was to swim on her back under the boat...and pick up the boat on her chest holding it with her 2 pectoral fins and then swim fast upside down with the boat on top of her...there is nothing you can do when your panga is on top of a whale but pray...some tourists think it's funny but I know how dangerous a boistserous whale can be and she really made me nervous and at times downright scared.
Sometimes she would play karate joe with her tail slashing close to the panga and other times she would toss the panga around with her nose....She scared me many times but the worst was when my daughter Sirena was in another boat and Puchona got real rough with them. there was nothing I could do to help and I could hear her crying and knew she was scared. She hated La Puchona and didn't want to go out for the rest of the season for fear of running into her again. remember that sirena?
Most of the time whales are lovely, gentle creatures but there is always a bad apple among them and one should be very careful when dealing with a psycho whale!

Wiles - 10-3-2006 at 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
Another really scary time was in Ojo de Liebre (Scammons Lagoon) when a huge gray whale named La Puchona took us on a wild ride. This particular whale was very strange and pushy and overplayful to the point of being a bully. She liked to push boats around and sometimes batted them out of her way like a cat toying with a mouse. Mostly we tried to avoid her but she would come looking for us to "play" with. Her favorite ploy to freak out the whale watchers was to swim on her back under the boat...and pick up the boat on her chest holding it with her 2 pectoral fins and then swim fast upside down with the boat on top of her...there is nothing you can do when your panga is on top of a whale but pray...some tourists think it's funny but I know how dangerous a boistserous whale can be and she really made me nervous and at times downright scared.
Sometimes she would play karate joe with her tail slashing close to the panga and other times she would toss the panga around with her nose....She scared me many times but the worst was when my daughter Sirena was in another boat and Puchona got real rough with them. there was nothing I could do to help and I could hear her crying and knew she was scared. She hated La Puchona and didn't want to go out for the rest of the season for fear of running into her again. remember that sirena?
Most of the time whales are lovely, gentle creatures but there is always a bad apple among them and one should be very careful when dealing with a psycho whale!

Wiles - 10-3-2006 at 04:39 PM

I led a few natural history trips back in the early 80's. Lost two people on a charter panga out on Scammon's. The whales' flukes struck the panga. One person expired immediately the other a few days later in San Diego from head injuries. Don't believe the whale acted intentionally, think it was just startled. They're awesome, massive, powerful animals.

I don't understand

Sharksbaja - 10-3-2006 at 05:52 PM

Quote:

You call this rogue whale a psycho. Is that because he doesn't fit into your world properly.

If (some) whales don't like it why would you think some would not rebel.

The same thing happens all over the world. Elephants on the rampage through villages, big cats stealing children, shark attacks on the rise. Deadly snake encounters and bears killing tourists and recreationalists.

Shall I continue.

Is it not clear. It is to me :light:

Maybe our quest to inhabit all places has something to do with it. :?:

That seems more scary to me, then say......driving Baja at night.

shari - 10-3-2006 at 05:56 PM

Believe me Wiles....I've been studying whales for over 20 years and whales do everything intentionally (except if you interfere with a mating trio they may not notice you are there in the heat of the moment) but whales are very good with their tales and in the early 80's the panga drivers didn't know anything about whales and their temperments so they did silly things to them that resulted in quite a few "accidents" or as I call them lessons. Was the person who died Mexican, because the father of a good friend of mine also died on the lagoon. You may have gone out with my daughter's father who never listened to my warnings and ended up getting slapped good by a whale which he's peeed off too many times. With a swipe of her fluke she sheared off the transom, motor and sent him flying....she knew who she wanted. Other incidents have happened where the whale knows the skipper is the bad guy and generally goes for him...and leaves the passengers alone. These incidents rarely get reported as the government, tourism folks etc. don't want people to be scared. I trained most of the guides in Scammons myself so most of them are pretty decent but there are some new macho guys who have no idea what a peeved whale can do. I guess they'll learn. There was once a nasty guide that the whales hated and they smoked him one nearly evey time he went out...needless to say, he retired early. Anyway, whales are just like us, if you bug them enough and they are having a bad day....look out!

Wiles - 10-4-2006 at 08:21 PM

Shari...First off thank you for your dedication over the years in your cetacean conservation and education efforts. There has been tremendous progress made in Baja over the past few decades thanks to people like yourself. Although I do NOT consider myself as qualified as many other cetacean experts, I do have some experience to draw on. I have been the naturalist on several hundred whale watch trips including trips practically in your front and back yards of Asuncion, namely Black Warrior's, Scammon's and San Ignacio. participated in some of the earliest marine mammal research studies in the area as well as studies of finbacks in the Cortez. I think I've seen every behavior possible, from friendlies to 'pink floyds', matings, calvings, participated in whale necropsies of 14ft calves to 80 ft blues, rescued a 34 ft juvenile fin stranded on the beach and spent countless hours on the water observing behavior. Having said that, please let me respectfully offer a different point of view. No I do not believe what happened on that fateful day on Scammon's was an intentional act on the whales behalf. The whale was not lying in wait to ambush a panga nor do I think whales single out skiff operators for punishment. That would involve emotion, premeditation and thought processes not known to exist outside the human species. One has to be careful not to assign human attributes to non-human entities. A more accurate description would simply be that a resting whale (which is common behavior in the lagoons) was startled when the panga approached and was trying to get the heck out of there and struck the skiff OR went into it's only natural defensive posture of slapping with it's flukes and the panga was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It was impossible to know which. Is there aggresive behavior of whales in the lagoon? Of course. Hormone levels run high as sub-adults are role playing and trying to etablish their dominance, while adults nearby are involved in courtship, selection and mating, and not to mention the hundreds of births occuring all within a few shorts weeks. There is an inherent risk to being in a skiff amidst all this activity. Not the place for inexperienced or caballero style panga operators (I too have seen many of these types in the early days of Baja whalewatching). To answer you questions 1) both casualties were American of which one was a well known tenured Professor of Biology at a major L.A. college with 40 years of field experience in 90 countries. 2) At that time the only Pesca permitted tour operator in G.N. I am sorry to say was Mario (no offense to you or anyone else who might know him). I urged members of my group NOT to go on the tour as my experince had always been that Scammon's contained a high percentage of very active sub adults thus increasing the risks. They opted to go.

If I may ask, how did you acquire your expertise which enabled you to train all the panga operators?

TMW - 10-5-2006 at 07:24 AM

["The whale was not lying in wait to ambush a panga nor do I think whales single out skiff operators for punishment. That would involve emotion, premeditation and thought processes not known to exist outside the human species."]

Wiles will not a dog for example show aggression toward someone who has mistreated them. I once had a german Shepard that would become very aggressive to the point of attacking any non-white teenager or adult male. The dog just came by the house one day when he was about 3-4 months old and we never found it's owner so we keep him. He was very good with small kids and all white people. I assumed he had been mistreated by a non-white male. Or am I barking down the wrong path here.

windgrrl - 10-5-2006 at 07:51 PM

I've watched whales off shore at Los Barriles breahing and slapping their tails for over an hour. Shari, do you know what this behaviour is about?

Wiles - 10-5-2006 at 09:16 PM

TW...interesting observation my friend. Let's explore it. Are we really comparing apples to apples or apples to oranges?

Domesticated Canines...bred for generations to enhance certain traits, suppress unwanted traits. German Sheps first bred as workers (sheep herders...enhanced traits.....loyalty and protection to the herd) then later as sentry dogs (enhanced traits loyalty to handler, aggression to strangers..relied on keen sense of sight, smell and strength). They were purposely bred for work, loyalty and protection. Mmmmmm.

Behavioral science...ring bell feed dog, ring bell feed dog, ring bell watch dog salivate. Association behavior. Mmmmm.

Canine's have exceptional sniffers..hence...drug sniffers, termite sniffers, corpse sniffers, cancer sniffers and of course human sniffers...nothing new here, right? Command dog to search, dog works, reward the dog....ring bell, feed dog.

Now that brings us to a fork in the road doesn't it. The left fork takes us to........If your dog's behavior is triggered by ONLY one race and that person had abused the dog, then the dog be subject to negative behavioral association:

adult(size) + scent recognition(race) = abuse

in other words, 'ring bell feed dog' has become 'ring bell kick dog'. So now the dog's gene pool kicks in when the dog 'senses' perceived danger and will do what it has been bred to do for generations....protect the herd and show aggression.

The other fork in the road might lead to If the dog's aggression is the same to multiple races the formula simply follows the traits of the breed without any behavioral reaction (meaning no previous abuse):

scent different from herd (race) = aggression to protect herd

So much for the apples...now the oranges

Why do they do that? That's the million dollar question when it comes to whale behavior....especially greys. Spyhopping, breeching, fluke sailing, beaching, and probably the most puzzling of all... the friendly whales made so famous in San Igancio Lagoon decades ago by Steve and Mary Lou.. How can you explain such seemingly bizarre behavior in an objective manner?

Whales are not domesticated or inbred or crossbred for effect by humans. They are natures creatures unique to their species.

As stated before I believe we should not assign human attributes to non-human entities. Therefore we should be objective not subjective when observing animal behavior in the wild. Example, when Shari wrote "the whale knows the skipper is the bad guy and generally goes after him" and "she knew who she wanted" is a classic subjective observation. By definition subjective is "dervied from the mind or inner feelings of the person" (Webster's). When making any observation it's best to be objective which by definition is "without emotion". Did the whale really dislike the skipper....or by chance was she the one who did not care for the skipper? Subjective or objective.

Let's explore......An objective observation might be to question:

Is it the skipper or possibly the way he operates the vessel? Yeah, if you harrass a whale one of three things will happen 1) they will submerge not to be seen again 2) they will zig zag, change direction, speed up, slow down and just make it tougher than it's worth to chase them or 3) they will show aggressive behavior (although rarely seen outside the confines of the lagoons).

But this does not answer the question of whales seeking out a skipper, or skiff, or motor..... wait a minute, are we getting a little objective here? Maybe it has more to do with the skiff than the driver, afterall don't great whites attack surfers on their boards??They say from underneath the surface a dude on a board paddling the surf looks alot like a wounded sea lion and that seems like an objective observation...we've all seen the pictures on TV. I have seen many a boat hull from underwater and a 30 ft panga hull can easily resemble a 30 whale....especially in the murky waters of the lagoons. If I were a whale maybe i'd think a rival male was infringing on my territory or trying to move in on the female I've been courting all day He's moving in pretty fast too, I better get to protecting my claim here as the only reason I migrated 3,000 miles was to mate and this gal is the only one to show any interest in me. Mmmmmm

Well, if it's not the skipper and not the boat then let me see, that leaves the motor. Remember she said the whale sheared off the transom and motor to get at the driver? Maybe the whale was focused on the motor not the skipper.Mmmmmmm

Whales are teriffic echolocators. Without giving an anatomy and physiology lecture here, simply stated they give off and receive sounds, much like sonar. They use this for everything from navigation, food sourcing, communication and so forth. Greys are no exception. A low range gutteral sound not easily heard by the human ear, but it's there.

The noise of an outboard is exhausted through an underwater port, really makes a racket. And that propeller spining round and round so fast really causes a comotion. I remember one day off the 14 mile bank in So Cal I was at the helm of a 65 ft charter boat and received a radio call from a research vessel a half mile away towing sonar gear. He asked if I had a bent wheel (propeller). I said yup, port wheel was dinged. He said it was making quite a racket on the sonar gear, very irritating. Mmmmmmm

Have you ever heard professional fishermen talk about how a certain boat fishes better than others? Most people thing it has everything to do with the skipper not the boat. Mmmmmmmmmm

I've seen Captain's of the Long Range Boats out of San Diego who make a living taking folks down to San Ignacio Bay, Mag Bay and the like on fantastic whale watching trips who actually changed all the outboards on their whale skiffs between trips because they didn't like the way they fished. Mmmmmmmmm

TW....all this to say I really don't know why your Shep acts the way he does just like I don't know what causes a whale to be aggressive in certain circumstances. But I do know that if we want to come to some sort of understanding of these behaviors, the best approach is to be objective in one's observations. At least, it sure can get you to thinking......

Thanks for the question.....hope you enjoyed the response....

Wiles...

M - 10-6-2006 at 08:45 AM

That was OUTSTANDING! BRAVO!!!mmmmm
I am REALLY enjoying this thread, to all participants, thank you.
M

Wiles

Paulina - 10-6-2006 at 10:18 AM

I've sent you a u2u.

P<*)))><

Cypress - 10-6-2006 at 11:16 AM

Welcome aboard Wiles! :yes:

You have taken this whale-watching discussion to a new level.

Maybe you ought to start a new topic about whale behavior etc.. :yes:

chino - 10-6-2006 at 06:06 PM

Scarriest thing in Baja?
realizing that I have to go home to work!

Wiles - 10-6-2006 at 08:10 PM

Paulina,

u2u right back atcha.

Debra - 10-7-2006 at 08:34 PM

The time I took my husband.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Almost as scary was a few years ago heading back north. I was heading down the long grade toward TJ headed to the border. In front of me I could see this truck, large flat bed type with 2 X 4 slats around it about 5 ft. up, he was carrying a load of tires and the tires were a good 4ft. above the slats, as I got closer I realized that they were not tied down and the back was totally open! I had a really bad feeling! About the time I decided that behind this yoyo wasn't a good place to be and sped up to go around him I saw the load start to wabble, just as I got along side of him sure enough the load came off, hundreds of tires bouncing all over the place, including off the windshield of the poor guy that had been behind me! I looked in my rearview and saw that the guy was okay and had come to a stop. I kept homeward bound and often wonder just what a nightmare traffic jam that was. It must have taken hours to clean up that mess!

Skeet/Loreto - 10-8-2006 at 03:41 AM

Wiles and Shari:
Both of your Posts were and Excellent View of Whales and their Behavior as well as Human Behavior! I printed them off to show my GrandKids.
There is Young man and Lady from France that have been doing Research in the Sea Of Cortez for many years. I may have the Natl Geographic on his Studies. He reports a White Whale{Albino?}.
One morning coming out of Loreto going North I observed a Large Whale on Top of the Water- I shut down Outboard. drifted to a few Feet of the Whale. The Whale turned and came alongside the Panga. As she passed she rolled over to allow her Eye to Focus on the Three Humans in the Panga, she then turned and came back up the Other Side and did the same!

I will never forget the Look in her Eyes! She was trying to Communicate!!
Virginia and I kept Records of sightings out of Loreto for the many years there, recording 48 in one year.

The Mexicano Pangaeros were very careful off of Pt. Lobos' as the Whales would Feed during certain times and come completely out of the Water with Sardines stringing from their Mouths-One Panga did not get out of the way and was Dumped with no Serious Injury.

I observed the 18 Whales that Beached South of Mulege many years ago.
did anyone ever come up with an explaination??

A Thread on Whale and Squid would be Great.

Skeet/Loreto

Skeet/Loreto - 10-8-2006 at 03:48 AM

M--A time when God Saved my Life;
Virginia and I were returning from a 7 Day Camping Trip from the Pacific Side, it was getting Late and we wanted to make it back to Loreto;
In the Same area as you leave the Cut off to Abreojos there are Three large dips going toward San Ignaico; As we started down I could see the Lights of a Large Truck, as I usually drove in the Middle of the Road I drifted over- Somthing told me to get back on the Right side of the Road, Just as I did a Large Truck came Head on down the Dip"'; Without any Lights at All'!!!! He was riding on the Lights of the two other Trucks.

Not Scared, just Stupid for Driving at Night-
Just put my Life in the Hands of God one more Time!!

Anon The Preacher