David K - 12-13-2003 at 07:48 PM
I am refering to the pre-December, 1973 Baja main road. Everything changed after December 1973 as far as Baja travel and number of visitors.
I was just a kid when my folks and I drove to the tip in 1966 in our Jeep Wagoneer. But, I was already infected with Baja Fever and my favorite book
was Gerhard & Guilick's LOWER CALIFORNIA GUIDEBOOK (The Baja Bible). We went to Gonzaga the year before and to L.A. Bay the following year. The next
trip down Baja (to Loreto) was in July, 1973. The highway was under construction and I took many notes and milages as to its location compared with
the old road. That July, pavement ended near Mision San Fernando (near El Progreso) and didn't start again until near Punta Prieta (in sections) with
solid pavement starting about Villa Jesus Maria. We were on the old road from Agua Dulce (10 miles beyond San Agustin) to almost Laguna Chapala.
The old road locator:
Just past where the highway crosses Arroyo El Rosario is where the old road left the valley using a side canyon, that the new road stays above, just
west.
The old road crosses the new and parallels it to the south, Rancho Aguajito and the turquoise mines are along it.
El Progreso was moved north a half mile to the highway from the old road.
The road left to Rancho Penjamo is along the old road, as is Aguila and Guayaquil.
The abandoned Pemex and trailer park 'San Agustin' is a half mile south of the original San Agustin, on the old road, as is Cafe Sonora a couple miles
ahead.
Agua Dulce is off the old road, a couple miles to the left of Km. 157. The old road stays about 1-2 miles east/left of the highway in the La Virgen
boulder area. The old road rejoins the highway just before the palapa by the rock art cave, 2 miles before Catavina.
The highway is next to the old road past San Martin and over to the first little dry lake. At the Pedregroso boulder mountain, the old road went
around the west side, whereas the new highway goes around the east side.
At the first sight of the Laguna Chapala valley, the old road continued straight towards the old ranch site, along a little hill just north of the dry
lake bed. This section before the ranch was perhaps the worst in all of the Baja road... deep, fine powder Baja dust that would cover your vehicle
completely. You would drive blind after fixing onto the trees by Rancho Chapala and hoping for the best! Then, after the ranch, you got to open it up
and drive 60 mph on the dry lake to blow a lot of that dust off. That best of the old road only lasted a couple miles, however. That Chapala dust
would stay with the Jeep for many car washes over the following years!
The new highway stays to the right of the dust field, along the hill, and to the right (west) of the dry lake. Rancho Chapala moved to the highway and
was renamed Nuevo Chapala. The new Chapala to Puerto Calamajue, then on to Gonzaga and San Felipe road was built from from about 1982-87. Coco started
his corner after that first section was built.
Both old and new roads come together where you leave the Chapala valley and see that beautiful view of the desert and mountains to the south.
Beyond El Crucero (where the road turns from southeast to south at the base of a hill) both roads are together. In a few miles the old road goes off
to the right (west) of the new and parallels it to Punta Prieta.
At Rosarito, the new highway swings west down the arroyo a couple miles then turns south to Guerrero Negro. The old main road went straight south from
Rosarito and eventually went to the center of the peninsula at El Arco. Some truckers running supplies to the new town of Guerrero Negro went along
the 'coast route', then took desert trails on to San Ignacio. The new highway does the same, passing near Guerrero Negro then swinging to the
southeast for San Ignacio. The old road coming south from El Arco joins the new near Vizcaino (a new town since the highway was built).
Vizcaino to San Ignacio finds both routes near each other. San Ignacio to Mulege, the same.
Along Bahia Concepcion, the old road can be seen in the cliff, right above the water in many places. This was built and maintained by the prisioners
of the old territorial prison in Mulege (closed after the highway was built ending the isolation).
Just south of Bahia Concepcion, the old main road went inland via Comondu where today's highway goes south through Loreto. Both rejoin at Insurgentes.
Travelers to Loreto could get to La Paz by driving to San Javier and then on to Santo Domingo on the main road. The road south of Loreto ended at
Ligui.
Pavement in '66 began about 100 miles north of La Paz and ended again, about 10 miles south of La Paz. They were building the new road and we drove on
it (unpaved) until past San Bartolo. It was just a two track jeep trail from there to Cabo San Lucas! The new highway stays to the east of Santiago
and Miraflores, where the old road naturally went right through these pretty villages...
I hope some of you find this a bit interesting... thank you for allowing me to share from my childhood memories and later observations!
[Edited on 12-14-2003 by David K]
Corky1 - 12-13-2003 at 08:21 PM
Thanks David.
If you take you and stop along the way you can still see some of the OLD ROAD as you drive the new road. Corky
Anonymous - 12-13-2003 at 08:26 PM
David, do you know if the old road is still being use by the locals as an alternative route to the various village as it once was used? Seems like
the old road would make for an adventurous trip for a motorcyclist, mountain biker, or hiker. Maybe not all of the old road, but sections of it.
Thanks for the post!..."El Mochilero"
David K - 12-13-2003 at 08:36 PM
Well, a bit yes... for the ranches near San Agustin, near El Arco, near Comondu for example... Anyplace where the new highway isn't on top of or next
to the old. It was fun to drive on it from Agua Dulce to Catavina last year. The other direction (Agua Dulce to Sonora was terrible to drive).
bajalera - 12-14-2003 at 03:10 PM
The Mexican government unfortunately failed to consult me before constructing Highway One. I had a plan:
The new highway would not have replaced the old carretera, had I been in charge of the chief engineer. I'd have put the new road nearby but kept that
old road intact--as a toll road. Equip some of the ranches (conveniently spaced) where truckers used to stop for food with gas refrigerators, build
some camp sites like those at Mesa Verde in Colorado, where vegetation has been left as a sort of privacy screen. Let the ranch people sell cold
drinks, candy bars, fresh fruit in season, and the usual bean-tortilla-whatever fare the rancher's wife had previously provided--at reasonable prices.
The toll would be enough to cover the minimal maintenace that prevailed on the carretera, and it would have several escape routes to the new highway
so people could wimp out if they wanted to. Those who stuck it out all the way to La Paz would get a wall plaque (nicely hand-lettered) with their
names, and maybe lapel pins.
Am I the only one who would have paid a toll? And if so, how much should it be?
- Lera
Me too!
David K - 12-14-2003 at 04:56 PM
I am a big nostalgia fan of old Baja... the pre '73 road, the El Camino Real, missions and mines.
I would think that a paved road along each coast (where possible) would have a bigger economic boost than following the old road much of the way, as
they did. Of course the surfers of Seven Sisters would have hated that, like they do the Escalera Nautica breakwaters.
In 1974, Tom Miller reported plans to 'soon' pave the road south of San Ignacio along the coast were made. 30 years and all they managed was a graded
road. That would be a tremendous short cut to La Paz (reaching today's pavement near La Purisima) and avoiding two big grades (Santa Rosalia's El
Infierno, and Ligui).
bajalera - 12-14-2003 at 07:34 PM
David K - A good road along the Pacific side south of San Ignacio would seem to be a no-brainer. There must be a lack of political clout in that area.
I drove an old Dodge Power Wagon down the Pacific road south of San Ignacio in the 1960s, and what an experience! Shiny gray looming literally came
right up to the truck on all sides, completely surrounding it. Like driving across a lake, with about five feet of shimmering visibility ahead. And at
the same time dust--much more than I've ever seen at Chapala--kept blanketing the windshield so I had to stop at intervals and let it trickle down far
enough to see out at all.
Your where-is-the-old-road post brought back a whole bunch of old (and mostly good) memories--thanks!
-Lera
David K - 12-14-2003 at 09:38 PM
Great Lera... Now, while those memories are fresh... POST THEM!!!! (please!)
Neal Johns - 12-15-2003 at 10:05 PM
I agree with David K, us young folks want to know how it was in the old days - Post it!
generubin - 12-19-2003 at 06:56 PM
All those wonderful old books about Baja, by Erle Stanley Gardner should be recommended to readers of this post. I have found most of them, along
with other great Baja books, on ebay at reasonable prices. Pray the Pacific dirt roads South of Laguna San Ignacio and the Puertocitos to Mex 1 are
never paved.
Mexray - 12-19-2003 at 08:54 PM
David - Another real 'Roady' story - where else could one have found this great stuff! Love it!
BTW: Years ago I ran the Parts Dept at the Kenoworth dealer in the SF Bay Area. One of our good customers, Asphalt Service Co, out of Martinez, CA
sent a bunch of their nasty old KW Tankers with those messy spreader bars on the back, down to work on the paving of HWY 1. My buddy, their head
Maintence guy always kidded me about going down there with him and hooking up with the senioritas...didn't have the time, darn!
[Edited on 20-12-2003 by Mexray]
David K - 12-19-2003 at 09:23 PM
Where have you been, Ray?
We miss you!
I also read your reply to my Thanksgiving web site on Fred's bbs. Thanks!
Can you guys make it to Bahia for New Years? I want to go, but don't yet know
Here you go Packoderm!
David K - 8-8-2004 at 09:51 PM
The old road locator... at the top of this thread...
[Edited on 8-10-2004 by David K]
There are many areas
jrbaja - 8-9-2004 at 07:52 AM
where the El Camino Real is still used as a road in south Baja. And there are also many old branches leading off of it to other areas where there are
ranchos, water, or small villages.
Packoderm - 8-9-2004 at 07:42 PM
David K, you're OK.
bajaandy - 8-9-2004 at 08:07 PM
Dito Packoderm! Thanks David K for sharing the memories and also for posting the map at your page.
David K - 8-9-2004 at 10:38 PM
De Nada guys!
I am more than happy to recall those days with my parents... They really were great folks and they both loved Baja and encouraged me to write guides
and draw maps of places we went.
I turned 16 three months before the highway was completed... I really wanted to drive 'the road' myself before it was built. However, at 16 I did
drive over the Gonzaga/Puertecitos trail in '74. Then again in '75, &'79 when it was still for buggies & 4WD only. In fact, in '79 it was vertually
impassable. All Gonzaga traffic came in from Hwy. 1 and the road south of Puertecitos received no maintenace.
They graded a new road in 1986. It is sure funny to hear people whine about that road today! It is a super highway compared to the road it replaced.
I hope you both will try and come to the Baja Cactus fiesta on Aug. 22. It would be nice to meet more Baja Nomads!
[Edited on 8-10-2004 by David K]
bajaandy - 8-10-2004 at 06:05 AM
David K,
For those of us not in the know, can you give up a little info about the Baja Cactus fiesta on Aug. 22?
David K - 8-10-2004 at 07:22 AM
Sure Andy, it is all right here on the General Baja forum... just scroll down. There is 2 threads about it. If you just read Today's Posts then click
on General Baja (in blue at the top of this page you are reading) and scroll down. Look for 'Baja Cactus Cutural Fiesta' and another thread with Aug.
22 in the title.
Also, if you need a dose of Baja history or just want to check out my books and maps, share a beer or sode... I am in Oceanside. Come over any
evening, use u2u for directions and phone #.
[Edited on 8-11-2004 by Q87]
bajaandy - 8-10-2004 at 09:33 AM
David,
Thanks! I most certainly do wish to participate in the fiesta. I've sent an RSVP.
And thanks also for the personal invite! I may just take you up on that one day.
I have been hooked on Baja ever since I was 8 years old. In '72 my Dad drove with some friends to La Paz, ferried across to Topolobampo and drove
back up the mainland. The photos he brought home fired my imagination for years to come. I remember getting out the projector and watching the
slides over and over again. Little did I know that I was laying the foundation for a love affair that has lasted the rest of my life. (My wife,
bless her, has come to terms with the fact that Baja is my mistress. Better a land mass than a woman, I say!) My biggest regret is that although my
parents took me to Baja (mostly Tijuana), I never got a chance to explore the Baja with my father, camping and fishing and off roading. A few years
ago my father passed away, so I asked mom if those old Baja slides were still around. She found them and gave them to me. What an emotional trip
down memory lane that was, seeing them again after 30 years. They are a cherished part of my childhood and my Baja memorabilia. I now make it a point
to go to Baja as often as time permits (never enough) and to take my son with me as often as possible. (He's been going since he was only a year
old.) My favorite thing to do is cruise the Pacific coast, camping and surfing along the way.
Anyway, thanks again for the info and the invite. I'll contact you, pehaps after the fiesta, about having that cervesa and talking story.
Andy
David K - 8-29-2004 at 11:13 AM
Mike Humfreville's wonderful story might refresh some interest in finding the old road, much of it is still drivable...
David K - 12-23-2004 at 10:07 AM
Here is the article on the old Baja main road, before Mex. 1 was finished. Mexico Ted's interview with Marvin Patchen last Tuesday brought the subject
up...
bajalou - 12-23-2004 at 10:35 AM
These are the kind of stories I keep looking at this forum for. Keep bringing them up David.
David K - 12-23-2004 at 10:46 AM
OK Lou, you got a deal!
I highly recommend anyone looking for specific Baja info here on Nomad to use the SEARCH feature up on top of the board in the navigation bar. It
really works great. That is how I find my articles from a year or more ago... I just entered Old Baja Road and David K, and it and other related post
links popped up. You can leave off the author's name if you don't know who wrote something.
bajajudy - 12-23-2004 at 12:26 PM
About a year ago my husband and I were coming into San Ignacio Lagoon from the south and he had to pull over and let me drive because the
mirages(espejismos) were so real he lost the horizon and started to get dizzy.
Well, being always dizzy(shake your head from side to side and go duh!) I had no problem what so ever.
There are parts of the old La Paz road out of San Jose just past Chiapa Feed and Seed. Dont know how far it goes but the carrizo canopy is worth the
ride for about a quarter of a mile.
[Edited on 12-23-2004 by bajajudy]
David K - 12-23-2004 at 02:49 PM
Judy, going north from San Jose del Cabo, take the road into Caduaņo, then turn north, in that town... that is the original road route and it passes
right through Miraflores, Agua Caliente, and Santiago (becomes paved at the zoo).
[Edited on 2-20-2009 by David K]
bajajudy - 12-23-2004 at 03:27 PM
Headed to Caduano for Xmas day, then on to Rancho Leonero but will be in the book mobile(86 Ford with 6-pack) so doubt of we try that. However as
much as Jim and I have spent driving around that area we have probably been on it at one time. Do you know if the cactus shrine is on that road?
That is an interesting stop.
Have you ever hiked up the Zorro canyon? Beautiful
David K - 12-23-2004 at 04:10 PM
Alas, no... Not having many days off for Baja Sur exploring means it will have to wait for me to see. Here is a recap of my few trips into Baja Sur...
In 1966, my folks and I drove from Tijuana to Cabo San Lucas, and looped back to La Paz via Todos Santos. That was 2+ week adventure (750 miles of
dirt road then) in a Jeep Wagoneer!
In July 1973, we went as far as Puerto Escondido... Pavement ended 40 miles past El Rosario (near El Progreso) and didn't start again completly until
Jesus Maria.
In July 1974, we again drove the entire peninsula to Cabo, with a side trip to Cabo Pulmo, and back north via Todos Santos.
In July 1976, we went as far as Puerto Escondido again.
In June 1985, my bride and I went to the tip and back on our honeymoon (camping and motels), we discovered the Santiago Zoo on that trip.
In Dec. 2001, I went to Cabo and back with an amiga and we were lucky to have a personal tour of the La Laguna mountains by Jimmy Smith, including the
oldest mine mill ruins in Baja, Real de Santa Ana... photos at http://vivabaja.com/baja15