BajaNomad

Campers and Air in Tires

DianaT - 10-12-2006 at 09:29 AM

Ok, this is being asked by the totally ignorant, me.

I understand why people air down for dirt roads, but we now have a camper on our truck so we keep more air in the tires than before --- still not at max psi. We have the Goodrich All Terrain tires.

Do those of you who own campers still air down for dirt roads?

Diane

surfer jim - 10-12-2006 at 09:39 AM

Good question....I haven't so far with mine....and I probably won't unless there is some compelling reason to do so...like stuck in sand or something....I never really air down anyway for the most part with or without camper....

BajaWarrior - 10-12-2006 at 10:00 AM

With that kind of weight, forget the pressure for starters. Deflate them to a "flatter" look, if that tire profile works for you, then record that pressure and use it next time.

I came across a guy buried in the sand with an older extra cab Ford with a large Cab Over, and against his wishes, aired him down just to get out and pointed in the right direction, and then aired him back up to get going again. He had agreed finally (after he was driving comfortably in the same sand he was stuck in) and thanked me. (He was using a skillet to unbury the sunken tires before I arrived!)

My 4x4 Crew Cab rides very well even in 2WD at a pressure of #20's in soft San Felipe sand with 35" tires.

For quick deflate, over the years collecting discarded "Fix a Flat" cans, I remove the the tip and hose and simply thread them on the valve stem for a hands free deflate (beats using a stick or shell or pen).

They also sell the same device at Off Road Warehouse and like that is Anodized but expensive.

vgabndo - 10-12-2006 at 10:05 AM

BW: That's an excellent tip. I'm going to go out and cut a hose off a can right now. Personally, I never air down when the truck is loaded. The ride isn't that bad anyway, and I think the weight improves the chances of a sidewall cut. I would do it temporarily if I stuck it.

Alot depends on the load range of your tires

Hook - 10-12-2006 at 10:20 AM

You havent stated that.......

I am currently running load range E tires. I typically run them at between 70-80 psi on pavement. It's a bit of a stiff ride but it appears that I will get between 45-50k on the tires. That's treadwear with a 9-4 Lance on the back for probably 70% of their life. When they cost 160 each AT COSTCO WITH A 15.00/TIRE REBATE, I want them to last. LTX-MS 265/75R/16.

But that's just too much air on dirt, for the ride alone. You feel every little rock or bump in the road. I typically drop to about 40-50 but I am not into flying over washboard with a cabover on the back. Too much chance of damaging the camper.

I have dropped as low as about 25 to get out of deep sand. I carry an older 110v air pump and invert DC to run it.

When these tires go, I am thinking of dropping down to load range D tires, probably the Michelins again or maybe a Bridgestone AT Revo or something.......

[Edited on 10-12-2006 by Hook]

DianaT - 10-12-2006 at 10:35 AM

Our tires are D rated Goodrich All Terrain----last set we got over 50,000 and we were happy. We, however, only had a topper on the back at that time.

On our Tundra, we now have an Outfitter, pop-top camper---only 6.5 feet, so not one of the huge campers, but still a lot of weight for the Tundra.

The tires can go to 65 psi and we usually run 42 or so in the front and over 50 in the back. So far, in the US on dirt roads, we have not changed anything---we do go quite slowly to not shake everything apart---especially on washboard.

Have not taken it to Baja yet, but soon.

Thanks for any tips and information

Diane

Tire pressure------

Barry A. - 10-12-2006 at 10:41 AM

With a F-250 ext. cab with 1000 lb camper and BFG 285/75 x 16 Load Range D All terraign TA's ($206 ea. out the door at Costco) I run 50 lbs. on the hyway and 35 lbs in the dirt (on long dirt roads), dropping them down to 20 if I get stuck, or it gets "iffy" in the sand. I always reinflate when back on the pavement, or after getting unstuck. Been doing this for years and have had no tire problems until they get really worn down-----when they get almost out of tread they do tend to get stone bruises and de-laminate.

Curious...

bigzaggin - 10-12-2006 at 11:00 AM

I have never really done much inflating/deflating - haven't had the Tundra in a deep sand stuck YET and the truck rides pretty well on the washboards. BUT, on my last trip to Coco's Corner I was gonna head to Calamajue (which has always intersted me) when Coco himself sternly warned me that - should I not air-down on that road - sharp volcanic rocks will pop all four of my tires in 20 minutes. Strangely, I drove from his place straight to Alfonsina's/Punta Final w/o a single tire issue...could the other road be THAT different?

Can anyone verify that Calamjue is the most tire-popping road in all of Baja or is Senor Coco simply hiding a stable of hot chicks and free beer out at the coast there?

Road to Calamajue-----

Barry A. - 10-12-2006 at 11:10 AM

has several volcanic stretches which potentially are tire-busters due to the very sharp rocks. Sharp rocks tend to cut thru tire rubber when the tires are highly inflated.

Road from Coco's to Gonzaga Bay is mostly sand and round wash-worn rocks, with very little volcanic, as I recall???.

Coco was probably over-stating the dangers, but they are real, in my opinion.

Thanks Barry...

bigzaggin - 10-12-2006 at 11:28 AM

that place has long been atop my "must do" list for Baja...and I "will do" soon...aired down.

Al G - 10-12-2006 at 11:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
With a F-250 ext. cab with 1000 lb camper and BFG 285/75 x 16 Load Range D All terraign TA's ($206 ea. out the door at Costco) I run 50 lbs. on the hyway and 35 lbs in the dirt (on long dirt roads), dropping them down to 20 if I get stuck, or it gets "iffy" in the sand. I always reinflate when back on the pavement, or after getting unstuck. Been doing this for years and have had no tire problems until they get really worn down-----when they get almost out of tread they do tend to get stone bruises and de-laminate.


Barry...You did not give your tires max air pressure. If I had that I could do a parentage to give me a starting point.
My load range is "F" with 110#. max weight 3475# Cold.

Skipjack Joe - 10-12-2006 at 11:59 AM

I drove my 3/4 ton chevy truck and overhead camper to Calamajue and back last year with slightly deflated tires without any problems. Maybe dump luck. I don't know.

Actually I've never had a flat in baja except for that one time when we drove over a roadside cardon cactus. Talk about punctures. I must have had 15 in each tire. Right through the steel belts. They were repaired at GNegro but soon noticed more leakage. When we arrived back home they found more spines. Moral of the story, don't drive over a cardon or you'll really regret it.

Reducing tire pressure always gives you a better ride on washboard roads, no matter what vehicle you're driving. The greater the pressure, the rougher the ride. Just try it and feel the difference. You've got nothing to lose.

LOAD RANGE F, AL !!!!!!!

Hook - 10-12-2006 at 12:01 PM

WHAT ARE YOU DRIVING ??

Al G - 10-12-2006 at 12:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
WHAT ARE YOU DRIVING ??

15000# Empty Winnebago .....18-20000# avg.

[Edited on 10-12-2006 by Al G]

Hook - 10-12-2006 at 12:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
I drove my 3/4 ton chevy truck and overhead camper to Calamajue and back last year with slightly deflated tires without any problems. Maybe dump luck. I don't know.

Actually I've never had a flat in baja except for that one time when we drove over a roadside cardon cactus. Talk about punctures. I must have had 15 in each tire. Right through the steel belts. They were repaired at GNegro but soon noticed more leakage. When we arrived back home they found more spines. Moral of the story, don't drive over a cardon or you'll really regret it.

Reducing tire pressure always gives you a better ride on washboard roads, no matter what vehicle you're driving. The greater the pressure, the rougher the ride. Just try it and feel the difference. You've got nothing to lose.


Hey Joe,

One of the best uses of Fix a Flat is for spiney problems like that. The holes are usually small enough that the sealant works pretty good on them. I usually carry a can or two, especially if towing.

Hook - 10-12-2006 at 12:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Al G
Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
WHAT ARE YOU DRIVING ??

15000# Empty Winnebago .....18-20000# avg.

[Edited on 10-12-2006 by Al G]


Al, someone needs to post the method of determining what your optimal inflation would be, based on measuring the tires fully inflated and then measuring them deflated to certain percentages. There is a means of measuring the height and the footprint that works for all tires, regardless of load range.

someone will have it.......

Al G - 10-12-2006 at 12:21 PM

Tire height is 33" inflated off ground with 6" tread width.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Forgot to say they are radials

[Edited on 10-12-2006 by Al G]

Fix-A-Flat...

bigzaggin - 10-12-2006 at 12:26 PM

I agree with the cactus spine application which reminds me of a question...for YEARS I have heard this rumor of the "explosive dangers" of Fix-A-Flat and was once reprimanded by a llantero for not informing him I had used it on a tire...how much of that is myth v.reality? Is there REALLY a danger with the product? I mean, I know better than to use a can for kindling, but does a spark + Fix-A-Flat = giant explosion?

AmoPescar - 10-12-2006 at 12:39 PM

AIRING TIRES UP AND DOWN...

I have pretty much the same set up as Barry A, an F250 Crew Cab with a full Cab-over Callen Camper and the same BFG's. I run the same pressures as Barry on the highway and off-road. However, most of the time I don't feel the need to air down and just leave them at 50 lbs.

When running on a bad washboard road 35 lbs. has always seemed to work well. I usually can drive pretty fast and float over most of it without too much shaking. I've aired down to 20 lbs. a couple of times in extreme situations and not had any problem.

The BFG's have performed well and I've only had one problem with them. I somehow managed to get a sidewall puncture on the right front when they were almost new. I was able to patch it with plugs and keep going.

Michael
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
With a F-250 ext. cab with 1000 lb camper and BFG 285/75 x 16 Load Range D All terraign TA's ($206 ea. out the door at Costco) I run 50 lbs. on the hyway and 35 lbs in the dirt (on long dirt roads), dropping them down to 20 if I get stuck, or it gets "iffy" in the sand. I always reinflate when back on the pavement, or after getting unstuck. Been doing this for years and have had no tire problems until they get really worn down-----when they get almost out of tread they do tend to get stone bruises and de-laminate.


[Edited on 10-12-2006 by AmoPescar]

Bajamatic - 10-12-2006 at 12:40 PM

I read yesterday that older fix-a-flat compounds were really flammable. I coudn't figure out if that was still the case either. It also said that if you spray it into a can, and inhale the fumes, that you would experience temporary euphoria, hallucinations, and be subject to the word DOPE on future baja nomad forums.

shari - 10-12-2006 at 12:54 PM

Thanks for the hot tip bajamatic...now, I can't tell you how many gringos have had blow outs on our road because they REFUSE to air down. even with brand new, muy expensive tires....they always say..oh it rides just fine with lots of pressure...listen to the locals folks, they drive these roads daily and know when they say a certain type of rock will puncture your tire if it has too much air. The best suggestion was to air down till it's looking kinda soft and pancakey...the locals just look at their tires and know...nobody has guages here. Please please believe us when we suggest you air down....always carry a compressor...the very best way to get out of sand is to let a crapload of air out of your tires and shazzzam...you drive right out!

bajalou - 10-12-2006 at 01:13 PM

Here's a link to a site that has done a lot of researth on tire pressure and traction

http://www.4x4now.com/sfjun96.htm

:light:

Hmmmm....

bigzaggin - 10-12-2006 at 01:40 PM

I've never met a gringo who REFUSED to air down in some defiant, "Americans-are-smarter " way (just as I've never met a Mexican named Shari). I mean, a couple of times I myself have been like, "Eh, I can make it fine with my tires as they are" but not in any sort of "I-know-more-about-Mexico-than-the-Mexicans" way. I come accross this attitude a lot, some angry preception that anyone who hasn't been coming to Baja for 79 years and/or owns a shed near Mag Bay is somehow eager to disrespect local logic. I mean, Mexicans are just people...they know a lot about some stuff and less about other stuff. I would surely take their advice on which mountain road to choose but might skip out on their "Maintaining a Germ-Free Kitchen" seminar.

Regarding my advice from Coco, I wasn't like, "You dumb Mexican, I don't need to air down!" I was just asking if his Defcon 5 style warning was maybe a tad dramatic...just as most people on this board are soliciting simple advice.

DianaT - 10-12-2006 at 01:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
Thanks for the hot tip bajamatic...now, I can't tell you how many gringos have had blow outs on our road because they REFUSE to air down. even with brand new, muy expensive tires....they always say..oh it rides just fine with lots of pressure...listen to the locals folks, they drive these roads daily and know when they say a certain type of rock will puncture your tire if it has too much air. The best suggestion was to air down till it's looking kinda soft and pancakey...the locals just look at their tires and know...nobody has guages here. Please please believe us when we suggest you air down....always carry a compressor...the very best way to get out of sand is to let a crapload of air out of your tires and shazzzam...you drive right out!


I guess my real concern with airing down is the weight of the camper.

It is good to read all of the opinions---we will continue to think about it.

Oh, we bought our first set of BFG All Terrain tires right after a sharp rock by Coco's took a bite out of the sidewall of the original tires on our Tundra.

Bajalou, that is an interesting site---thanks

Diane

[Edited on 10-12-2006 by jdtrotter]

Neal Johns - 10-12-2006 at 02:32 PM

Equipment: 850 lb. Phoenix Pop-top camper (dry) with 350 lb. misc. equipment, plus two passengers and one 50 lb. dog on a 2003 Tacoma. This exceeds the Toyota gross weight limit (which includes passengers and optional equipment).

32x11:50 BFG T/A tires rated max pressure 50 lb. Door jam placard indicates about 30 lb. recommended for the normal 31x10:50 tires. This recommendation, as always, is for full load, hot day, and high speed.

I run (on my 32's) 30-35 lb. highway pressure, 25 lb. on washboard, 20-25 in soft stuff (rarely 20).

I frequently go home several hundred miles on 25-30 lb. tire pressure with no adverse effect (sidewall cracks, etc.).

The Max Pressure on the sidewall has no bearing on what pressure to run unless your weight is at the associated tire carrying capacity at that pressure. For example, a BFG 32x11:50 is rated at 50 lb. at 2530 lb. per wheel. I don't have that much weight on any wheel so use lower pressure, expecially at low speeds.

Neal Johns
Chairman Emeritus
Desert Explorers (100 families in the Barstow Museum 4x4 group)
www.desertexplorers.org

BajaWarrior - 10-12-2006 at 03:20 PM

There ya go Neal, your right.

I have a 88' Toyota regular cab pickup shortbed. Bought it new, and put 33" BFG's on it right away. That tire does not know what type of vehicle it has on it's back. Could be a Crew Cab, or in my case, a Toyota.

For the life of two sets of tires, (130,000 miles) I ran only 20 pounds of air and the tires appeared completly normal. Had I used more air in those tires over the life of them, they would have worn right down the middle.

So yes, weight of the vehicle versus what the tire is rated for. Just because it says 50 psi, that may not be the correct pressure for your vehicles weight.

P.S. I run the 50 psi on my crew cab, same sized tire and I get 40,000 miles out of them.

Al G------answer to your question-----

Barry A. - 10-12-2006 at 03:35 PM

My BFG R285/75x16 load range D are rated at: 3305 lbs @ 65 psi. cold

I have never run them at 65. My max pressure is 50 on the highway, and if not too loaded (no boat on top) I drop that down to 45. I am not heavy enough for the 65 lbs recommended. 65 psi would cause center tread wear on tires as wide as these. Mine are mounted on 8 " wide rims.

Hope this helps.

By the way------

Barry A. - 10-12-2006 at 03:43 PM

-------in my area of S. Calif in Imperial county we ran all our Desert Ranger pickups (full size short bed) with 8" rims and 10.00 x 15 tires (all diff. brands) at 26 lbs pressure, on or off road, only airing down when in the dunes, or stuck. I insisted that the Rangers do this, regardless of what their personal preferences were. For the 13 years I was in El Centro this worked just fine on 8 desert patrol vehicles. But remember, these vehicles were very light as we carried minimal loads. Tire problems were very rare, and mileage on the tires was excellent.

Heavier weights require more air pressure, but not much more.

Skipjack Joe - 10-12-2006 at 03:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Hey Joe,

One of the best uses of Fix a Flat is for spiney problems like that. The holes are usually small enough that the sealant works pretty good on them. I usually carry a can or two, especially if towing.


Fix-a_Flat got us out of the boonies to GN. We were headed for Guatemala and were advised against driving with the spines in those tires. So we had them plucked out and repaired. Didn't get all of them though and the driving enlarged the holes around the undetected spines causing further leakage until all were removed. Those cardon spines were pretty good sized and not too hard to find. Even the fragmented ones.

The whole episode was quite interesting, actually, but this isn't the thread to tell it.

Al G - 10-12-2006 at 03:51 PM

Thanks Barry...This thread is helping to put things into prospective.

Warrior...

bigzaggin - 10-12-2006 at 04:11 PM

just curious...those tires you ran at 20 pounds, how much time did they spend on dirt vs. asphalt?

Germ-Free kitchen

Skipjack Joe - 10-12-2006 at 04:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bigzaggin
I would surely take their advice on which mountain road to choose but might skip out on their "Maintaining a Germ-Free Kitchen" seminar.


You might be surprised to find out just how clean and germ free Mexican kitchens are.

When you drive by a Mexican home in baja there is an impression of an unkept house. There's a dirt yard. No clean sidewalk leading leading to the front yard. No cement path leading to the fron door. The front yard is desert dirt. The furniture is attic furniture and not in the best shape.

But a Mexican household is anything but dirty. The women are meticulous in doing their laundry on a very frequent basis and the kids are always wearing sparkling clean clothes. The dining room furniture is scrubbed after every meal, so much so that you can see the wear on the tabletops themselves. They're continuously sweeping out their interior. You will seldom enter a dusty house.

They work much harder than Americans in keeping their homes clean. And to a large extent their homes are cleaner. We often confuse poverty with being slovenly. Anyone who has traveled 3rd world countries extensitvely and outside of the gringo enclaves knows the difference.

[Edited on 10-12-2006 by Skipjack Joe]

Why did I know...

bigzaggin - 10-12-2006 at 04:32 PM

this post was coming? WHY DO I BOTHER MAKING JOKES ON THIS BOARD. NOTE TO SELF ZAGGIN: THIS IS A HUMOR-FREE ZONE. DO NOT WASTE JOKES HERE.

Jesus, does everyone on this board live in Central Cal/NorCal or Portland, aka the epicenters of frowning and self-righteousness???? I KNOW MEXICANS ARE NOT DIRTY!!! I mean, I'm not so sure about cleaning dishes with water you can't drink, but that's a different conversation.

Anyway, Americans are dumb and Baja is a paradise we are losing to evil rich people and you should always air down and drive slowly and hand out clothing and haul back your plastics and grow a beard and get a mutt and wear black wetsuits...THANKS!

BajaWarrior - 10-12-2006 at 04:36 PM

BigZaggin, those tires were 100% asphalt. I used the truck as a commuter to Orange County and Riverside County while working as a Heavy Equipment Operater.

BTW, the Toyota has been retired to my home in San Felipe for the past 10 years, still going strong with only 140k miles on it (only 10K miles in 10 years). It's on its third set of BFG's, all dirt/sand now, but I only keep the tires inflated at 5 pounds!

No lie, the truck is light, and it floats over the sand only leaving the tread mark, also, pulls the boat or jet ski's out of the water up a sandy grade with no problem.

Pulls stuck Chevy's out of the sand too!

BajaWarrior - 10-12-2006 at 04:41 PM

Big Zag,

you hit a nerve with some of the members, you dispicable American!

LOL :lol:

Zaggin------one more piece of advise----

Barry A. - 10-12-2006 at 04:46 PM

-----which I know you want to hear-----

always use the "smiley" when making a joke. :lol::lol:

(PS your last post is halarious [I think???], and we all needed to see it)

BajaBruno - 10-12-2006 at 05:09 PM

On all of my trucks, I have always aired them to the manufacturers specs printed on the little metal card in the doorjamb. Maybe I am a little conservative in these matters, but I figure those engineers in Detroit know a lot more about what size tire and pressure my truck needs than I do.

Of course, if I am well under the rated load, I have been known to decrease the rear pressure a little so it matches the front pressure, and in emergencies I do whatever is necessary to get back to pavement, but 99% of the time, I follow the door tire plate.

As for the secret formula on tire size, I do know a little about math. If the tire footprint in square inches is multiplied by the current air pressure in pounds per square inch, you should have a rough approximation of the current load that tire is carrying. That’s the only formula I know for tires . . .

BajaWarrior - 10-12-2006 at 05:25 PM

That works well when you still have the stock size tire and rating, but it does not advise when you add weight to the vehicle.

Didn't Ford and Firestone have a problem with this information for the Explorer?

Diver - 10-12-2006 at 05:30 PM

When buying new tires for the big trucks, consider going to 285/75/16.
The D rated in this size is rated for almost the identical loads as an E rated 265/75/16. Th sightly taller and wider tire does better in loose dirt, sand and mud.

On my F350 I run 60-75 psi (max inflation is 80) for all pavement and most short dirt sections. I go down to 35 for washboard, 30 for sand driving and 20 the one time I was stuck. As long as your tires don't have really stiff sidewalls, airing down will help keep the silverware in the drawers.
.

shari - 10-12-2006 at 05:36 PM

Just a note to bigzaggin...I'm not angry at all or Mexican...never said I was, but I AM married to a local and lived here 18 years and consider myself local as well and also think I can pass on good advice of locals who may not speak english...I don't give a hoot how many times a persons been to baja...I was just trying to get something across here about trying to convince foreigners (since you don't seem to like the word gringo which is just a generic word here for someone not Latino) that airing down is OK and really and truly is the best way to take the dirt roads. I don't suppose you've met a gringo who won't follow your advice...you are probably white??? I can state that about 90% of the travellers that come here ignore the mexican's advice to air down...I can't understand it really.

BajaWarrior - 10-12-2006 at 05:41 PM

Shari,

the answer I always get from people when I suggest they air down is they are afraid the tire will come off of the rim.

Gotta admit, when we were all running 16.5 tires, they actually could lose the bead if aired down too low.

BajaBruno - 10-12-2006 at 05:42 PM

Good article Bajalou--thanks for the link.

As for Ford, Firestone, and the Explorer, Ford's defense in that matter (as I read while the issue was still fresh) was that the people who had trouble were running their tires at less than the pressure indicated on the door plate, which increased the tire temperature enough to explode tires that were probably of marginal construction to begin with. I'm sure there were other factors as well, but naturally, Ford didn't want to get into that!

BajaWarrior - 10-12-2006 at 05:57 PM

When I was a teenager, a neighbor had a large motorhome. He told me he had weighed each corner of the motorhome at a public scale, and did the math according to the weight each tire could hold in accordance to the psi the tire could hold. Since his load was roughly always the same, I can see where that could work.

But he was kind of an anal guy and yelled at us when we skateboarded in front of his house...

jimgrms - 10-14-2006 at 12:52 PM

Shari let them ignore you and open a tire shop :lol::lol:

shari - 10-14-2006 at 01:42 PM

great idea and a free puppy with each flat repair!