BajaNomad - Lobster buying/trading

Lobster buying/trading

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shari - 10-17-2006 at 01:01 PM

Since it is lobster season, I would like to offer some sound advice about buying or trading for it. To begin with, it is completely illegal for a fisherman to sell/trade you lobster...the critters are the propery of the entire coop, not the fisherman. It is a serious offense and they can lose their job for that. You are supposed to buy lobster from the fish plants, here they go for about $10 a nice big lobster and they give you a receipt to sh9ow in case you get inspected by the military or fisheries you can prove you bought them legally. On occasion there are military spot checks on the back roads out of the beach camps just for this reason.
Now if ya DO decide to trade, just remember the fishermen get about $3 each lobster fro the coop so be FAIR...don't trade a can of spagetti-O's for 6 lobster!! Oh yeah, and most fishermen have tons of hats and t-shirts. Now, they will smile and accept anything you give them and when you ask how much are the lobster they say oh no...no money....and some say...how bout a beer....so you hand them a beer...come on guys, give em a six pack at least....just remember they are taking a risk to make you happy....also there are lots of places that poach tiny lobster and sell them....not cool either...thank goodness they don't do that here and we still have a healthy lobster population. Try not to contribute to the teeny lobster market....ok enough preaching....I just wanted you to understand the situation....happy holidays...

comitan - 10-17-2006 at 01:05 PM

Shari

Not preaching, very good info, thanks for shari-ng.

Hook - 10-17-2006 at 01:23 PM

Great info, Shari.

And I agree.......dont promote the killing of undersized lobster.

This would, of course, rule all of P.N. out.............. :lol:

jimgrms - 10-17-2006 at 01:59 PM

thanks Shari that is nice info to know

Al G - 10-17-2006 at 02:10 PM

Thank you, Shari You da man...oops...You da woman. :lol:

Don't know if I will ever get in that spot, but now a least I will not embarrass myself or others.

Cypress - 10-17-2006 at 02:12 PM

Lobsters. Seems to me that dealing with lobsters could get sorta "out of hand". You need a "bill of sell" for a few in-season legal size lobsters?

Hope I can get a shrimp or two, possibly a crab without looking over my shoulder. :no:

pargo - 10-17-2006 at 02:19 PM

Do you all remember the days when you could go to Rosarito for a mega sized lobster meal? I haven't been there in years because the size of the lobster were steadily shrinking. Do you think the poaching and over use of this resource has anything to do with that? :no:

Bruce R Leech - 10-17-2006 at 02:48 PM

what is the smallest one you can take ?

Hook - 10-17-2006 at 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pargo
Do you all remember the days when you could go to Rosarito for a mega sized lobster meal? I haven't been there in years because the size of the lobster were steadily shrinking. Do you think the poaching and over use of this resource has anything to do with that? :no:

Absolutely! Many of us, including myself, has to share part of the blame. By this I mean through patronizing PN; not actually poaching myself.

My solution......I try and catch my own now, obviously not in Baja. Cant seem to find the size that allows for the bugs to have spawned at least once (3 1/4 inches from the eye socket to the end of the carapice) anywhere in Baja.

I guess Asuncion is the place................... :bounce:

[Edited on 10-17-2006 by Hook]

Al G - 10-17-2006 at 03:07 PM

Shari...Will there be lobsters the beginning of December?
I hope,I hope,I hope,I hope,I hope,I hope,

rts551 - 10-17-2006 at 03:16 PM

Thanks Shari

We have the same rules and dilemma in Abreojos.

Bajamatic - 10-17-2006 at 04:22 PM

Id say a beer dragged across many miles of scorching desert, buried in ice, and strictly rationed is well worth 3 bones, if not more, maybe 5 bones. And by that calculation, a sixer is valued at 30 bones, which would mean that you are suggesting something that may very well lead to an eventual economic meltdown for the entire pacific coast do to inflationary forces from the lobster industry. I'd say a couple of "sips" per tail is a more healthy approach.

rts551 - 10-17-2006 at 04:59 PM

Bajamatic. You obviously value your beer more than your lobster. In Abreojos we have beer stores but no lobster stores. :lol:

Al G - 10-17-2006 at 05:25 PM

BajaMatic... I know where your economic miss calculation is...Ice. Ice is only required for weak beer ie...Bud, miller, Corona. Hardy beer, ie..Pacifico..Indio...Nagro Modelo, you can drink at water temperature.

Al G - 10-17-2006 at 05:27 PM

Forgot to use.... :lol:

comitan - 10-17-2006 at 05:34 PM

Al

Glad you mentioned Indio I even like it more than Negra Modelo.

Al G - 10-17-2006 at 05:44 PM

At least Baja has a few good choices so you can move around a little. My mood changes so I change my beer as often as I change my shorts.

Edit: Make that Hat

[Edited on 10-18-2006 by Al G]

David K - 10-17-2006 at 05:45 PM

Thanksgiving, 1982 or 83... My parents and I went to Laguna Manuela area for some great surf fishing (what Whistler calls 'Variety Beach')... We thought it would be perfect to have some 'Baja Turkey' (ie. lobster) for Thanksgiving dinner.

We first went to the beach at the lagoon where the pangas go out from and asked... Just one guy there and he said to go to the big metal building by the Pemex station at Villa Jesus Maria (where Carmelita now sells tamales)...

The big metal building was a LOBSTER packing house... and NOBODY would sell us (just one) lobster for our Thanksgiving meal!!

So, 23 years ago we DID go to the coop's 'fish plant' and they wouldn't part with even one of the HUNDREDS we were seeing in there! Oh, and we were being very polite and would pay any price...

So, I ask you Shari, is there a new rule since then that allows sales from the fish plant or is it a Villa Jesus Maria/ Laguna Manuela rule???

Thanks for your great post!

[Edited on 10-18-2006 by David K]

Al G - 10-17-2006 at 05:51 PM

DK.. In Todos Santos the boats will sell fish, but every time I have ask at the weigh station I am told "ALL sold" Must be a hotel thing.

yes

Bajamatic - 10-17-2006 at 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G
BajaMatic... I know where your economic miss calculation is...Ice. Ice is only required for weak beer ie...Bud, miller, Corona. Hardy beer, ie..Pacifico..Indio...Nagro Modelo, you can drink at water temperature.

but ice it down and you get to tack on a luxury tax to the value.

Hook - 10-17-2006 at 05:54 PM

Al, you've obviously never had a warm Pacifico.

BLEEECH !!!!!

It's the main reason I prefer Tecate. If the ice fails at the end of a long fishing day or a remote camp site, Tecate still tastes good.

Pacifico? Even warm Budweiser would taste better........

Al G - 10-17-2006 at 06:04 PM

Tecate...Haven't given it much of a try. I think it was on a Sun trips on Mexicana air, some 20 years ago. Will have to try it again.
As for Pacifico I am drinking at room temp now. Of coarse it is only 70 Degree out now and that is about my limit. I drink most dark beer at 70+-.

[Edited on 10-18-2006 by Al G]

best place to get lobster?????

Tomas Tierra - 10-17-2006 at 06:55 PM

F.O.B. (fresh off the boat)

I find if you drive down on the sand and offer help pulling their panga out with your truck,( they don't have to go start their truck) immediately GIVE the boys a
COLDY( I bring a spare 12er of bud for this purpous) before any desire for lobster is shown...done deal!(and a spanish lesson)

I am very respectful of their efforts and like to give them money for lobster..money = gas = more langui manana..

I love to have a coldy and pull the panga nomatter what,great way to make a friend :light:

Lobster trading ...???

cristobal - 10-17-2006 at 07:03 PM

Shari ...
The way I understand it is that a fisherman can not sell Lobsters but he can give them away ... that is how they
get them to their parents ... as gifts.

When I stop bt BAHIA TORTUGAS ... the fishermen have
lobsters for me as gifts :wow:

...
what a bunch of nice guys. :yes:

just happens that when people are that nice to me ...
I give them all of the T- shirts that they want. :lol:

PUNTA EUGENIA is the same way ...
gifts are ok .... :bounce:

trading is not ... :no:

In 1993 I came home with 50 Lobsters in my IGLOO icechest.
:spingrin:

and I even had the proper paperwork
to get thru the checkpoints.

I ate well that winter. :bounce:

Fish in TS...

Cameron - 10-17-2006 at 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G
DK.. In Todos Santos the boats will sell fish, but every time I have ask at the weigh station I am told "ALL sold" Must be a hotel thing.

Next time you're in TS and looking to buy fresh fish, you can stop in @ the little pink house about 1/2 block or so uphill from the "La Paloma" ice cream place on Calle Militar. No sign on the building, but it's all freshly caught that day by the same guys who launch their boats from Punta Lobos that same morning. Mmmmm fish tacos! :tumble:

please translate

Bajamatic - 10-18-2006 at 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cristobal

Having some trouble reading this line.

shari - 10-18-2006 at 12:43 PM

I'm really glad this was useful info...lobster season depends where you are...here in Asuncion it runs from October 1 till the end of February. The fishermen get 12 lobsters a MONTH for their famlies to eat, which they may give to you if you're nice, but remember their family won't be eating those lobster then. Once in awhile the vigilancia ( coop's fish cops) give away lobsters that have the legs chewed off or bites out of them etc. but ya have to eat them then and there and not transport them anywhere. JUst to put things in perspective for ya'll.

Cypress - 10-18-2006 at 12:48 PM

Buying lobsters. Looks like you need a lawyer to get a lobster or two?

I'm losing my taste for 'em(lobsters). Lawyers aren't edible unless you have strange tastes. :no:

shari - 10-18-2006 at 01:03 PM

It's easy to buy em from the fish plants on the coast and they're cooked and frozen and nicely wrapped up.

QuePasaBaja - 10-18-2006 at 01:52 PM

That is good info. And I would love to use it myself on my blog. Please expand that story a little, and e-mail it to me. info@quepasbaja.com

All credit goes to you.

LANGOSTA anyone ...???

cristobal - 10-18-2006 at 02:16 PM

Thank you Shari ...

You have much better info than I do .. :bounce:

Mine is dated ... yours in current ...
I'll keep that in mind next time I am in PUNTA EUGENIA. :wow:

or TORTUGAS :wow:

or LA BOCANA. :wow:

BAJAMATIC ....
aaahhh ... I seem to have misplaced my smiley face

translation tables ... :bounce:

This thread has been GREAT!

bigzaggin - 10-18-2006 at 02:35 PM

...especially since the "Please Give Me Some Lobster Buying Guidance" and "I Am Stupid And Do Not Understand Fairness and Courtesy" threads were so active.

Man, I'd forgotten how much I love unsolicited advice. Which reminds me, it is considered rude to punch Mexicans in the face.

Zaggin

Bajamatic - 10-18-2006 at 03:16 PM

zaggin. I agree. there is no need to treat people like they have no respect for the land or the laws, or customs without knowing personally how you and/or others treat the locals, or the local lobsters. I think it best to maybe refrain from buying lobsters all together, and just hunt for your own! I'll post a pic of my "Tried and True" method of Bug hunting that I have used for years off the Southern California Coast, and recently in Baja (Last August) had HUGE success pulling in giant bugs off the mid-pacific bite. Feel free to use my methods. Also, sometimes its just easier to take a few from the local traps (I like to leave a beer there, too).

[Edited on 10-18-2006 by Bajamatic]

bruce-lobster.jpg - 35kB

That is actually a great idea...

bigzaggin - 10-18-2006 at 03:49 PM

and honestly, what would a Baja fisherman rather see in his trap: A few measly bugs or a sixer of ice cold Tecate?

Bajamatic - 10-18-2006 at 03:51 PM

a sixer? Why leave a full sixer (in this case symbolic of "full-price" by sheri's standards) when I am doing all the work?

OH NO ! Say it Ain't so, Joe.

MrBillM - 10-18-2006 at 04:13 PM

I just found out on another thread that I couldn't claim to be a GOOD resident in Baja (per Oxxo) because I have Illegally used a Marine VHF radio for communications and NOW I find out that I have purchased Lobster (and Shrimp, for that matter) Illegally in the past. Not only that, I remember buying Tortouva from Mexican Fishermen on more than one occasion. Gazooks ! I am doomed ! If I were Catholic, I would run to church and confess.

If only I can be saved from Damnation, I will resolve to never again purchase Lobster or Camarones on the sly. Tortouva, however, is another matter. I'll take my chances with Diablo for some of that.

rts551 - 10-18-2006 at 06:36 PM

Bajamadic

While you teach these people to hunt lobster, pls let them know what the fine is for taking them as well.

Bajamatic - 10-18-2006 at 06:44 PM

6 beers i heard.

Diver - 10-18-2006 at 06:47 PM

In Florida and other US waters, recreational divers are not allowed to use anything but their hands and a non-hooked stick. No nets, hoops or hooks.
Gotta give the little buggers a chance !! Wonder where you are 'matic' ?
.

The best way I ever Caught the bugs.

Sonora Wind - 10-18-2006 at 08:16 PM

On a surfing trip to Punta San Jose around 1997, via the road thru the foothills west of Santo Tomas. We stopped at a Pacifico store ( NORTH OF SANTO TOMAS) and bought several cases of 40 oz whales. Soooo next day I walked down to the beach/boat ramp drinking a large beer. Two fishermen had just returned from the sea. Old man and his son. No! Old man and his grandson. He spies my 40ozer. I spy his 14" bugs. He offers a trade 32 ozs of Pacifico for two honkin spinies. Best I ever cooked/tasted/ate. :cool:

He chugged the 32oz left without a breath. The grandson was crushed. Opened my backpack and offered the 20 something young man a 40 of his own. :yes:

Al G - 10-18-2006 at 08:39 PM

It appears your life is full kindness. Kindness grows and you spread it well.

I agree with Diver

bajadogs - 10-18-2006 at 09:18 PM

Diver said -

Quote:

In Florida and other US waters, recreational divers are not allowed to use anything but their hands and a non-hooked stick

Poacher,
In the US, if you can't bag the bugs with your hands as a recreational diver you should invest in a commercial fishing license, a boat and traps. Then maybe you will change your views about poaching.

I've been diving both Californias for over 20 years and can proudly say that I have NEVER broken US or Mexican fishing laws. Oh, I've been tempted when it just seems so easy and I come out of the water with a hunger for what I just saw but I just don't cross that line. "Everyone does it" is not an excuse. If you see someone poaching, report them, confront them. It's a crime for a reason, as bad as theft.

"Descent men doing bad things" - John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez

[Edited on 10-19-2006 by bajadogs]

Al G - 10-18-2006 at 09:49 PM

OPPs............Where did you come from?? If you stand on sanctimonious ground I applaud you....but would not want to be you. Most of us are having fun, maybe you are not???
Welcome to Nomads... lots of useful Informatin..many friends.

Stickers - 10-18-2006 at 10:11 PM

Shari, I know Capt. Mike has asked you this question recently but I will ask again about the current condition of the airstrip?
All this lobster talk is getting me hungry and I'm thinkin about gasin up the aluminum carpet and comin down.

Tomas Tierra - 10-18-2006 at 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajamatic
Also, sometimes its just easier to take a few from the local traps (I like to leave a beer there, too).

[Edited on 10-18-2006 by Bajamatic]

That is the lamest thing I have ever heard!!!! you must have been kidding BM, I hope so!! My buddy is a lobster fisherman, the amount he looses to this kind of idiotic behavior is ludicrous!! Only a true KOOK would do that..If your diving and can't get one on your own your not worthy of eating it!

shoot, I went hoop netting in front of my house last night and got 11 (two of us) with two of those over 10 pounds!!

be careful trap poachers!! there are some clever boobie traps out there...would you rather have all of your fingers or a lobster..........I thought so!

Sense and Sanctimony

MrBillM - 10-19-2006 at 10:07 AM

I've noted that various residents who are among those on the Liberal Left have taken a sanctimonious stance regarding the morality of strict obeyance of Mexican Law on these trivial issues.

Given the fact that they also profess an overwhelming sympathy and comradeship with the Common Man and his welfare, aren't the two views in conflict ? In the subject at hand, after all, the "Rules' established by the Government for sales of Lobsters and Camarones are designed not to create a healthy job market for that common man, but to enhance the government's profit margins in the Export market. As a result of these "Co-op" regulations, the fishermen find themselves working at subsistence wages without any ability to enhance their finances. In every case where I have bought Lobster or Camaron (and Tortouva) from Mexican Fishermen, it has been they who approached me and not the reverse and I am sure that, having paid the requested price, they profited a lot more than they otherwise would have.

Given the Liberal concern for those downtrodden workers, is it not More moral to buy from them and make their lives just a little bit better than would otherwise be the case ?

Bruce R Leech - 10-19-2006 at 10:15 AM

nuke the Lobsters and Camarones :light:

Cypress - 10-19-2006 at 10:17 AM

MrBillM! :yes:

Believe it's called "free interprise", with the emphasis on "free". :biggrin:

Al G - 10-19-2006 at 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
nuke the Lobsters and Camarones :light:

Bruce... now you must explain...I don't like over cooked crustaceans(sp?). Can't we use a smaller bomb? :lol:

Hook - 10-19-2006 at 10:31 AM

Amazing how the buying and selling of lobsters and Mexican law has now also become a liberal plot.........WHO KNEW !!!!! :?:

Another legitimate thread trashed in the name of righteous indignation........

Shari, thanks for the original info.........it's up there somewhere?????

David K - 10-19-2006 at 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
I've noted that various residents who are among those on the Liberal Left have taken a sanctimonious stance regarding the morality of strict obeyance of Mexican Law on these trivial issues.

Given the fact that they also profess an overwhelming sympathy and comradeship with the Common Man and his welfare, aren't the two views in conflict ? In the subject at hand, after all, the "Rules' established by the Government for sales of Lobsters and Camarones are designed not to create a healthy job market for that common man, but to enhance the government's profit margins in the Export market. As a result of these "Co-op" regulations, the fishermen find themselves working at subsistence wages without any ability to enhance their finances. In every case where I have bought Lobster or Camaron (and Tortouva) from Mexican Fishermen, it has been they who approached me and not the reverse and I am sure that, having paid the requested price, they profited a lot more than they otherwise would have.

Given the Liberal concern for those downtrodden workers, is it not More moral to buy from them and make their lives just a little bit better than would otherwise be the case ?

Makes sense... more income for the good of the common man.

Another point of view Bill:

The laws may be designed to limit the take of lobsters to insure the species isn't wiped out from over fishing or the taking of bugs during reproduction season? Totuava should be left alone until the numbers return... However, that is some good eating fish. After a great fish dinner at a popular Gonzaga Bay restuarant, I inquired as to the variety I just consumed... The nice lady (who no longer is there) looked both ways and whispered to me "totuova"... :lol:

Heck, if they don't care then I wonder how much they can expect visitors to?

I think the desire to make more money to provide for one's family will mandate if lobsters and totuavas continue to be sold by Mexican fishermen...

Good Point, David

MrBillM - 10-19-2006 at 11:26 AM

Limiting the "Take" in order to insure survival of the species is a Valid reason for the Government rules, although I'm not sure if the Mexican Government's regulations are designed for that purpose as opposed to profit maximization.

When it comes to "totuava", my experiences have probably been much the same as yours, a matter of pure luck. The first time I ever tasted it was during a trip to Alfonsinas @ Gonzaga Bay in 1973. We went down to the restaurant for dinner and the day's catch was "totuava". We got a HUGE slab of fish along with a tiny pat of instant mashed potatoes and a dab of canned corn for 5 bucks. It became my instant favorite. At that time, it was still selling at the meat counters in Mexicali and we bought it often along with Caguama.

I note your spelling of "totuava" and I yield to your extensive experience. I've seen it spelled so many different ways in books that I've never been sure which was the most correct.

I must be TOTALLY CRAZY...

bigzaggin - 10-19-2006 at 11:39 AM

...'cause in 15 years of going to Baja - during which I've purchased MANY a langosta off local fisherman - I have never once felt I was A.) Ripping them off B.) Endangering their job C.) Somehow contributing to any sort of "bad American" myth or D.) Undermining the fiscal stability of BCS.

A typical transaction is uneventful:

Me: Did you guys get some lobsters today
Fisherman: Yeah. You want a few?
Me: Yes, four would be great. How much you want?
Fisherman: (price varies, typically $5ish per)
Me: Cool.

I then pay the guy and throw in some cold Tecates for good measure, maybe a ballena if they haven't all busted in the cooler. In my wildest fantasies of superfluous conversation I never once fathomed so much chatter could surround a basic commerce transaction. SURREAL.

Al G - 10-19-2006 at 11:52 AM

Will someone explain "totuava" Please?
Thank you,
Mr. Baja know nothing Albert

Check this out Al...

bigzaggin - 10-19-2006 at 11:56 AM

I'm assuming you mean the fish?

http://www.mexfish.com/fish/totoa/totoa.htm

Al G - 10-19-2006 at 12:27 PM

Thanks, bigzaggin
Sorta ugly non sport fish. See me. :lol:

David K - 10-19-2006 at 01:23 PM

This one is a baby... (photo from Gene Kira's web site)...

My young school friend Shawn Grover caught one about that size back in '67 on the beach at (what today is called) Bahia Santa Maria with a fresh water kiddie pole!

Here's Shawn and I (39 years ago) in my parent's trailer at Nuevo Mazatlan, Thanksgiving 1967...

shari - 10-19-2006 at 02:04 PM

OK guys, my original idea in this post was to provide some info which many folks are not aware of...you do what you bloody well please with it but don't come whining to me to help get you out of jail, where you will be if you get caught poaching lobster here...if ya don't get dead first...poaching is real serios here, just ask the families who just buried the last poachers who were shot dead on Cedros Island last week. Just so ya know....it is illegal to take any lobster in this area even with your pinkies. It's all real cool until you get caught...so what I was getting at is BE COOL and yes of course it's available like anything else here....just be aware of the consequences...didn't mean at all to sound self righteous...just figured I was helping pass on local info. I have to listen to all those fishermen that YOU THINK go away happy with a ball cap...while they complain and b-tch and moan about friggin cheap gringos and I listen to what the fishermen who have bee slighted are thinking of doing to those folks....not nice... ya see, sometimes they are all smiles and gracias to you but then complain bitterly about how you treated them. weird I know but good to know. Be fair and you might not get your stuff ripped off later....word to the wise....

Shari...

bigzaggin - 10-19-2006 at 02:26 PM

Consider yourself officially removed from "People To Call If I Get Busted Poaching Lobsters In Baja" list. But it is good to know poaching is illegal in Mexico. I'd assumed otherwise, I mean, since it's so totally legal everywhere else.

jimgrms - 10-19-2006 at 02:28 PM

Al tortuava or however it is spelled i n the mid to late 50 early 60 200 300 lb ers were commonplace around san felipe thier natural spawning area, They have a bladder or some body part that the chinese think is a great approdisiac so the fish population was decimated because of horny chinamen, also when fishing until you land the fish it is hard to identifyin then and tortuava have a air bladder that manny think the fish will die if it is inflated so they keep it (big no no if caught go to jail big time ) but if bladder is punctured will be ok,, the fisherman statut in san felipe the guy is carrying a totuava, so this entire thread and also all the misspelled words and poor grammer is because of a bunch of lustfull chinamen jim viva gezzerhood :?:

Cypress - 10-19-2006 at 03:26 PM

Somebody ought to tell those chinese geezers about viagra.

But after seeing some of those chinese hags, maybe rat poison would be more merciful. :light:

Al G - 10-19-2006 at 03:38 PM

Jim...My reason for participating in this thread is to keep my butt out of trouble with Lobster or Camaron (and Tortouva).
There are so many things to do and enjoy in Baja, there is no reason to cross the line.
I think it has to do with gringos, after the best deal sometimes spelled "steal a deal". it is a culture thing that women are at the forefront. I want the best deal, but not interested in taking advantage of fishermen. Everyone that has indicated they have, needs to stay in the US or get a life.
I believe what is inside of most of us is good, and that is who we really want to be.

Bajamatic - 10-19-2006 at 04:02 PM

I guess I'll just go back to taking buckets of abalone since this seems to cause such a stir with some of the residents. The small ones are the best, hands down.

Shari,

bajadogs - 10-19-2006 at 04:09 PM

Your point of this post is received and appreciated. I didn’t mean to steer the subject off-topic but I’m blown away when a Nomad admits to poaching (US waters or otherwise). Fellow nomads should take your knowledge to heart. I’d hate to see someone floating up the beach with a spear gun through their throat.

I’ve never been to Bahia Asuncion. How is it during summer? I haven’t had a good lobster in a long time.

Al,
I've never been accused of standing on sanctimonious ground before, but it doesn't offend me. And, yes I'm having fun, thanks! Maybe I should insert more smilies -
:biggrin:

Al G - 10-19-2006 at 04:31 PM

Bajadog, I hope you understand my intent is not to offend.
I write to get your attention. I find it is usually, the only way to get people to think instead of being self assured They are right. I often find myself in the same boat, so to speak.

Bajamatic...

bigzaggin - 10-19-2006 at 04:34 PM

Is poaching abalone illegal in Baja? I know taking shellfish is illegal but I don't think abalone is considered a shellfish. A friend of mine who has lived in Baja forever told me the locals actually LIKE it when gringos dive for abs because the abalone population is out of hand down there and the government is doing little if NOTHING to control it.

That's Mexico for ya! :lol:

Al G - 10-19-2006 at 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigzaggin
Is poaching abalone illegal in Baja? I know taking shellfish is illegal but I don't think abalone is considered a shellfish. A friend of mine who has lived in Baja forever told me the locals actually LIKE it when gringos dive for abs because the abalone population is out of hand down there and the government is doing little if NOTHING to control it.

That's Mexico for ya! :lol:

Zag.. two things worry me about your post.
1)poaching..........Means to do something illegal
2)I don't think abalone is considered a shellfish....I have had to remove the"shell" from all that I have cleaned.
I am not sure, but would bet it is illegal.

rts551 - 10-19-2006 at 06:05 PM

Abalone.....More controlled than lobster. the season for the fishermen is only three months.

Is this for real, are you smoking something. or did you mis the smileys?

"Is poaching abalone illegal in Baja? I know taking shellfish is illegal but I don't think abalone is considered a shellfish. A friend of mine who has lived in Baja forever told me the locals actually LIKE it when gringos dive for abs because the abalone population is out of hand down there and the government is doing little if NOTHING to control it. "

Frank - 10-19-2006 at 06:07 PM

I heard trolling was a good way to get a Hook Up!

bajaguy - 10-19-2006 at 06:14 PM

so, how about those Mets???

Al G - 10-19-2006 at 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
so, how about those Mets???

1 to 1 about to be rained out. Cards win tomorrow!

Al G - 10-19-2006 at 08:25 PM

Looks like I was wrong.....
About the RAIN :lol:

Hook - 10-19-2006 at 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Frank
I heard trolling was a good way to get a Hook Up!

Very good, Frank. :lol:

I'll boil on anything with red in it.

Me No Poacher

MrBillM - 10-20-2006 at 09:02 AM

I'm not too worried about getting a speargun through the head or heart since I've never engaged in Poaching. I suppose I have (unknowingly of course) purchased from Mexican Poachers. Since I ALWAYS assume the best, I have believed that those Mexicans approaching me with Sea Food for sale are completely on the Up and Up. NOW I find out that may not be true. Another belief shattered.

Speaking of purchasing Lobster, I had a friend in Gonzaga years ago (now deceased) who would fly over to the Pacific Coast on his way back home and load up on Lobster. On one occasion, when he checked in with Customs at Calexico, he had 48 Lobster in Ice Chests in the back seat. U.S. Customs seized the Lobster and seized his airplane. After paying the required fines, he did get the plane back, but not the Lobster, of course. That cured him of bringing Lobster back, although he'd still buy it for consumption in Baja.

bigzaggin - 10-20-2006 at 09:07 AM

that is precisely where the old saying comes from. You know, "Cops always have the best shellfish."

Mr Bill

Baja Bernie - 10-20-2006 at 10:04 AM

Years ago I had a civilian, Police Garage foreman, working for me and he always had lobster, in San Diego, for sale at a good price.

He also had a plane in which he smuggled hundreds of bugs out of Baja for years and always got away with it.

One day two huge Mexican guys in fedora's and heavy coats knocked on his door. "You don't know us, but we know you so if you wish to visit Baja come right ahead. But if you wish to return to the States with your aeroplane we strongly suggest that you not purchase any 'bugs' because we will be waiting for you."

Suddenly! No more bugs for sale!--In fact he never flew his plane south of the border again.

Oh! Yes, I would guess that the Customs guys had one heck of a feast after the story you told.

Feasting Law Enforcement Officers

MrBillM - 10-20-2006 at 01:39 PM

I'm sure they did have a big feast. Nobody ever said Cops were Stupid. Other things, maybe.

Years ago, in L.A. or [insert city], the joke was that, after a burglary or robbery when someone said "Call the Cops", the answer was "They've already been here."

Lee - 10-20-2006 at 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
I listen to what the fishermen who have been slighted are thinking of doing to those folks....not nice... ya see, sometimes they are all smiles and gracias to you but then complain bitterly about how you treated them. weird I know but good to know. Be fair and you might not get your stuff ripped off later....word to the wise....

In Pescadero's surf ghetto (the area where the old Gypsy's use to be), fishermen come around on Friday's selling camarones, dorado, and lobster. Pound tail for $15.00. Don't know where they are from but they always have lobster.

:cool:

Cypress - 10-20-2006 at 02:22 PM

Haven't had much experience with slighting fisherman.

As a fisherman I've been slighted. :yes:

shari - 10-20-2006 at 05:13 PM

In these parts, abalone season is only a month and they really take care of their abalone beds...if you are caught with abalone, it is a more serious crime than having drugs.

rts551 - 10-20-2006 at 06:56 PM

Shari
Yes... but me thinks there are some that are posting out of ignorance or maybe "chumming" for more posts

enough You said it best in the beginning.

bigzaggin - 10-20-2006 at 07:00 PM

AMEN!

Skeet/Loreto - 10-21-2006 at 12:43 PM

Would someone please define "grezzerhood'???

Just a thought

Lee - 10-21-2006 at 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Somebody ought to tell those chinese geezers about viagra.

But after seeing some of those chinese hags, maybe rat poison would be more merciful. :light:

I find most racial comments offensive. On top of the above, referring to women as hags is equally bad.

I don't know what the intention is here.

My Dad was a Southern man and a hick. That makes me part hick. If someone were to make derragatory comments about hicks, I'd probably think about stereotypes as not being funny.

My Mom was Pacific Islander and Cuban. If someone were to make racial slurs regarding these groups, I'd take offense.

Maybe I'm sensitive. I have my Mom's skin color and blood. I don't look Cauc.

Growing up, it was sometimes hard living in a white world when you're not taken as white.

I knows words are tossed around, like gringo. That word refers to Norte Americanos and white folk. Personally, I don't use that word but have used it referring to ugly Americans.

So, just a thought here around racial and sexual sensitivity.

:cool:

Cypress - 10-21-2006 at 01:52 PM

Lee, Thanks for calling me on that post.

Felt bad after it was posted. :no:

My intention wasn't to cast stones at Asian ladies. :yes:

Was only attempting to make light of the 'Old Asian Guys" penchant for eating weird stuff, much of what is on the endangered species list, to get their jollies. :?:

Have seen hags in every race and denomination, as well real beauties.

Yes, and....

Lee - 10-21-2006 at 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Lee, Thanks for calling me on that post.

Felt bad after it was posted. :no:

My intention wasn't to cast stones at Asian ladies. :yes:

Was only attempting to make light of the 'Old Asian Guys" penchant for eating weird stuff, much of what is on the endangered species list, to get their jollies. :?:

Have seen hags in every race and denomination, as well real beauties.

Everyone has some racial and sexual insensivity in them. I do.

Jim referred to someone as a chinaman and, to me, unless you're Chinese, that word is a slur and disrespectful.

Same for the word hag. Not respectful to women.

And you're right about Asian's eating weird stuff. And Mexican's eat menudo. Geeze.

To each their own.

Point taken and given, I hope.

No disrespect intended.

:cool:

jimgrms - 10-22-2006 at 07:04 AM

Ldid not intend to slur or disrespect the chinese people in my post jimee i

Iflyfish - 10-22-2006 at 09:26 AM

Shari,

I have not traveled the Baja in many years and appreciate your post. Times’ have changed and the info is useful.

Many years ago, I had the privilege of catching a Totuava out of San Filipe.
It is one of the fish that I prize most in my fishing experience. It put up a good fight and was delicious. At the time, I was told it was caught only in the gulf and off the coast of China.

The Totuava was once so prolific and common that people caught tons of them and never gave it a thought. It now stands on the brink of extinction. Without protection, the lobster and abalone could go the same way. The taking of abalone is now so highly regulated up north because it nearly became extinct because of over fishing.

I think it is human nature to plunder resources without thought for the consequences. This is a fatal flaw in man. In the Pacific Northwest, where I live, I am waiting the day when the last salmon runs our streams and on that day, the conservationists will be somehow blamed as they are now for the increased regulation of these species.

I have traveled over much of the Republic of Mexico and have seen the great divide of the haves and have not’s. Mexican nationals have treated me in the main with great respect and kindness. Most Mexican fishermen I have met work very hard for their living. I have met very few who are wealthy. It is not hard to haggle a poor Mexican fisherman out of his meager catch and walk away with a few more pesos. I have many pesos, he has few. His bargaining position is weak. Mine is strong. Not much pride in "winning" in this situation.

Thanks for sharing your unique perspective on this issue.

Iflyfish

Poor Fishermen

MrBillM - 10-22-2006 at 09:35 AM

It's OK to be caring, compassionate, sympathetic and all of the other wonderful feelings expressed for the "Poor Economically Abused" Mexican Fishermen because "You" have many pesos and "He" has few so you are able to further oppress him by Haggling over the price of his catch. The answer to that Dichotomy is pretty simple, though. Simply do as I have ALWAYS done and DON'T HAGGLE. Simply ask the Vendor (whatever he's selling) how much he wants and PAY THAT PRICE. You can feel good about your character and he can feel good about the money. Everybody Wins !

Whistler...

Tomas Tierra - 10-22-2006 at 10:59 AM

Are they pulling traps by hand or do they have pullers in Abreojos??

Iflyfish - 10-22-2006 at 12:08 PM

MrBillM,
Exactamento! Well said.
Iflyfish

bajabound2005 - 10-22-2006 at 05:21 PM

So, BajaGuy, are you bringing the lobster for Thanksgiving???? Oh, yeah, we're BACK!!!

Tomas Tierra - 10-22-2006 at 09:02 PM

good for them..the few times I've been with my BCN buddies it was all by hand. Pretty shallow usually, but even that (I pulled more than a few for them) sucked! That used, cheap poly-pro is BRUTAL.

shari - 10-23-2006 at 10:27 AM

Thanks for the local report on lobster season in your area....each coop is very different as they have different buyers and prices, number of traps etc. I can assure you that the prices are NOT that high here...there are 2 co-ops in our village and one does alot better than the other due to better management and markets. So yes some fishermen do better than others. I guess one of my points is that most assume lobster fishermen are pretty well off, I did too until I found out the reality of the situation...they do get a nice sum of cash but the rest of the year they live on credit. They often spend this lump sum on a nice truck and paying off their debts so there really isn't alot of cash around. Sometimes the first week or couple weeks they are as the first lobsters are in demand, but prices drop rapidly as do the quantities caught...first few days a boat can get up to 500 and now they are getting around 100 which drops later to dozens.
Season lengths depend on the quotas and this years abalone season was a longer one due to a higher quota and lots of nasty swells which prevented the divers from working every day.
One other point is about just asking the fishermen the price and not haggling, well I can honestly state that hardly any mexicano fishermen will ask for a fair price...they usually just say Oh gotta cold beer?? In this society, prices aren't put on things, they seem to know what things are worth and trade accordingly without having to discuss it...so....think about these cultural differences when "trading"

Al G - 10-23-2006 at 11:21 AM

Thank you Shari for a clearer understanding..I always want to pay the fair price and when it is unknown I tend to over pay. I leave feeling a little dumb, but not as bad as if I had short changed someone.
Please keep up the good info. :coolup:

Bajamatic - 10-23-2006 at 11:23 AM

Oh - thats good advice. Next time I head down to mex I'll remember that whenever someone tells me the price of goods, that I should, what do you think is fair, Double it? That might even be a good theory to apply to my life here in the states. I mean I just bought a car the other day and I feel like I might have ripped the guy off by paying the sticker price. I'd better go back and give him some more money.

rts551 - 10-23-2006 at 02:23 PM

Same thing for abulon in Abreojos last year Shari... still diving in May. I'll try to get up your way in November (Maybe drag Whistler with me) .. wanted to fish the torneo but its the same time as the Baja 1000... we will see

Ralph

Frank - 10-23-2006 at 02:53 PM

Well I only pay whats fair, by my standards. Im the one paying, right? So if they want too much, then I eat carne asada. If they ask too little, I pay and give a very nice propina to make me sleep better.

This way of mine isnt just for Mexico. Fair is fair no matter where you are in the world or in the food chain. Did I mention its also goes both ways?

Liberal? How about Radical?

Lee - 10-23-2006 at 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
It's OK to be caring, compassionate, sympathetic and all of the other wonderful feelings expressed for the "Poor Economically Abused" Mexican Fishermen because "You" have many pesos and "He" has few so you are able to further oppress him by Haggling over the price of his catch. The answer to that Dichotomy is pretty simple, though. Simply do as I have ALWAYS done and DON'T HAGGLE. Simply ask the Vendor (whatever he's selling) how much he wants and PAY THAT PRICE. You can feel good about your character and he can feel good about the money. Everybody Wins !

I shouldn't be surprised, but I am.

This is one of the most enlightened posts I've ever read. What a great attitude.

This is about generosity (of the soul), and abundance.

What goes around comes around. Good job.

:cool:

Ignoring the Obvious

MrBillM - 10-23-2006 at 04:45 PM

It Figures. Whenever I "Assume" that something doesn't need to be said, it turns out I was wrong and Someone will miss the obvious.

When I said that I NEVER Haggle, but simply pay the price requested, I didn't mean that I would BUY the goods in question if the price was out of line. In that case, I simply say "No, Gracias", but I don't Haggle to get the lowest price. Fair Enough ?

I have a good friend who frequently comes down to visit in Baja and he doesn't believe in paying a nickel more than he has to. Once we were in San Felipe and an elderly vendor came up selling straw hats. His original asking price was $8.00 and they looked to be worth that. My "friend" talked him down to $5.00 and then said he could buy it at Target and take it back if he didn't like it. Ticked me off so much that I told the guy I'd buy it and gave him $8.00. I don't even care for that kind of hat. I've still got it (in pristine condition) in my casa. My buddy asked me why I did it and I told him it was because he acted like an "Ass" and I was embarrassed to be standing there.

On another occasion, I was standing in line at a local mercado behind some Oregon Tourists who had their $110K Motorhome parked out front and were arguing with the clerk over the price on a case of Vanilla. The frustrated clerk, who I knew, said "it's a good price, isn't it ?" to me. I agreed and told the old bags I knew what people meant by Ugly Americans.

Buy or don't buy, but simply pay a fair price if you do buy and don't demean someone else simply for sport.

Thanks for your comments, Lee, You're absolutely correct. The least of us visiting here are RICH by the Average Mexican's standard of life.

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