BajaNomad - Good news for Baja Wines

Good news for Baja Wines

JESSE - 10-19-2006 at 06:23 PM

The state water agency has announced it will build a water aqueduct from Tijuana to the Guadalupe Valley. Thus providing desperately needed water to increase the size of vineyards, and more wine!!!!!!

The project will take a couple of years but in the end, it will help grow the wine region into something capable of producing enough grapes to put us on the map. Currently, there isnt enough water to go around, so production is limited.

Bruce R Leech - 10-19-2006 at 06:29 PM

that is very good news for us wine lovers and also the state. these are the kind of projects that really do a lot of good :tumble:

Dave - 10-19-2006 at 07:09 PM

So this will come from Rodriguez? I'm sure that the citizens of TJ, Rosarito and points South will be pleased to hear this. Instead of potable water they can just drink wine. Sorta like "let 'em eat cake".

As it is, there ain't enough to go around and there are 20 high-rise condos in the works.

Bruce R Leech - 10-19-2006 at 07:24 PM

give me wine and a good deli sandwich any day keep the water and hold the mayo. :lol:

bancoduo - 10-19-2006 at 07:33 PM

I'll drink to that! :yes:

Al G - 10-19-2006 at 07:44 PM

Holy cow Bancoduo, you went from the lowest class avatar to the highest class. Congrats.

Bruce R Leech - 10-19-2006 at 08:02 PM

yea what a change, tis is going to take a little getting used to :lol:

From what I've tasted.....

Hook - 10-19-2006 at 09:36 PM

....the Guadalupe Valley needs to cut the yields on the acreage already being farmed.

Too many thin wines..............

thebajarunner - 10-19-2006 at 09:56 PM

I would be very curious to know the percentage of Baja Norte grapes grown in Guadalupe, compared to those grown down at Llano Colorado and the valleys up and around Meling, etc.
Bet Guadalupe is just the 'showcase' and the major portion of grapes grown elsewhere.
That is just a guess, not a know fact.

bancoduo - 10-20-2006 at 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G
Holy cow Bancoduo, you went from the lowest class avatar to the highest class. Congrats.

She's my new hunting buddy. :biggrin:

bancoduo - 10-20-2006 at 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
So this will come from Rodriguez? I'm sure that the citizens of TJ, Rosarito and points South will be pleased to hear this. Instead of potable water they can just drink wine. Sorta like "let 'em eat cake".

As it is, there ain't enough to go around and there are 20 high-rise condos in the works.

I was wondering if this has more to do with development than grapes. The valley is a prime area for a upscale inland community. :?:

eco-community :cool:

Bajagypsy - 10-20-2006 at 07:04 AM

That is great news, we can't get Baja wine here in Canada, and my husband and I LOVE it!!! :biggrin:

Now we can take even more home!!!!!!!!!!!

Bruce R Leech - 10-20-2006 at 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
....the Guadalupe Valley needs to cut the yields on the acreage already being farmed.

Too many thin wines..............

they grow some good grapes they just cant make a good wine yet . or at least with any kind of constancy. but that will come with time and some help from outside Mexico.

JESSE - 10-20-2006 at 09:21 AM

From what i know, Mexicans wines cannot compete with foreing wines because the goverment taxes the hell of out them. So a bottle of similar quality wine from lets say California and Chile, will always be cheaper than its Mexican counterpart. Right now theres little incentive to produce world class wines in the valleys. If you export them, people complain they are too expensive. And the local market is rather small. (Tijuana-Rosarito-Ensenada) consume more wine than the rest of Mexico.

I had a conversation with Eduardo Liceaga, the owner of Viña de Liceaga, and he confirmed that theres two problems that prevent Mexican wines from becoming truly international. 1.-Water and 2.-Taxes.

Martyman - 10-20-2006 at 01:43 PM

The wines I've tried in Baja aren't that good. Can anyone suggest a nice baja red for around $10usd? I'm from Sonoma so I'm kinda spoiled.

Hook - 10-20-2006 at 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martyman
The wines I've tried in Baja aren't that good. Can anyone suggest a nice baja red for around $10usd? I'm from Sonoma so I'm kinda spoiled.

Not likely.

Go south, young man. Chile and Argentina are kicking some serious Baja burro in the under 10 range. Try some Malbecs or Cabs. I like the Montes Reserve Malbec '05 or the '04 Altas Hormigas Malbec.

Then, there's Espana..........and South Africa.........and the Rhone.

If taxation is the problem as Jesse suggests, the government should get out of the way of the wine industry in Mexico, cause this is a bad time to be at a disadvantage to other countries.

JESSE - 10-20-2006 at 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martyman
The wines I've tried in Baja aren't that good. Can anyone suggest a nice baja red for around $10usd? I'm from Sonoma so I'm kinda spoiled.

You wont find any, like i said, a wine in baja of equal quality to one from california or chile is going to cost 10 dollars more, so its not for everyone. If you don't mind the cost, i suggest you try the following:

Acrata Portada
Jardin Secreto
Roganto
Macouzet Cab-Merl
Equinoccio

You're being WAY too kind

Dave - 10-20-2006 at 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
a wine in baja of equal quality to one from california or chile is going to cost 10 dollars more

Joanne's daughter owns a wine bar in Long Beach. They specialize in Cal wines at $4-12 (their cost). There's not a Baja wine under $40 that even comes close.

I plan to start importing truckloads. Even with import duties and taxes I'll be very competitive. That is...If they let me live.

Hook - 10-20-2006 at 07:33 PM

Dave, I've seen some of my favs from Chile and Argentina for sale in Mexico in bottle shops. At least on the mainland. Not quite as inexpensive as what I get em for up here but pretty close. So, dont discount them.

But, yes, the grape glut is continuing in California. Good for consumers.

And I didnt even mention the under 10 market coming out of eastern Washington state.

bajaguy - 10-20-2006 at 10:47 PM

Trader Joes....Gato Negro from Chile....try the cab-merlot blend....$4.99 a bottle

Mexican Wine

Iflyfish - 10-21-2006 at 12:55 AM

I will mention the Washington Columbia Crest Shiraz and Chard. Consistantly winners at under ten bucks! A couple of my favorites. My last purchase of the Columbia Crest Shiraz was at 7.99 per bottle. There are three tiers of this wine and the least expensive is as good as the most expensive.

Salud!

Iflyfish

capt. mike - 10-21-2006 at 06:17 AM

right on re: columbia crest! always good quality and at great prices, look for specials out of the large grocerie chains like albertsons and safe way.

2 years ago we flew up the columbia river doing a wine tour, got permission to land at the CC private strip next to the winery, then it was the red grape carpet treatment! we ended up with 4 cases at that stop before hitting walla walla and yakima vallies.

love that washington state wine area.

Bruce R Leech - 10-21-2006 at 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Trader Joes....Gato Negro from Chile....try the cab-merlot blend....$4.99 a bottle

these are available in Mexico at about 5 to 8 dollars and probably the best buy here

Hook - 10-21-2006 at 03:25 PM

Im a big fan of Columbia Crest, too. But in most cases, it pays to buy their "Grand Estates" designation which is available in most of their varietals. Usually only about 4.00 more per bottle.

DENNIS - 10-21-2006 at 04:26 PM

Trader Joes ---- Two [3] Buck Chuck. Absolutley defies snobbery.

DENNIS - 10-21-2006 at 05:08 PM

Actually, my scant knowlege of Guadalupe Valley wine does carry one memory.
I was doing photography work for a Sprout plant, new and large, west of San Antonio de Las Minas, near G.V. and was talking with an expert on growing in the area. He was hired for his expertise by the Sprout company.
He questioned whether the Guadalupe Valley had the requisite twenty one nights of true frost necessary to produce good grapes used for wine.
He didn't believe so.
His was only an opinion although learned and unbiased.

I also recall, some years ago, post NAFTA, when a festival was organized in G.V. to showcase the wines of the region and others. When the local vintners got wind of the fact that a few Northern California wineries were scheduled to show their products, a few dropped out. At the time there were not many more than a few in G.V. and the festival was incomplete in its attendance.

It all came down to Mexican Business not wanting to compete. They shudder when the word is mentioned. Just as grocery stores here basically have the same prices. If you notice, the prices are uniformally too high by U.S. consumer standards. That's not because of import or shipping but because sellers have decided what profit margin they all want to work with. No competition.

Fifteen years age, I would see in stores around Ensenada, one gallon jugs of Santo Tomas Vino Tinto, priced at eighteen dollars. Last year I saw the same bottle of parts-wash at Smart and Final, eighteen dollars.

When Mexico allows competition, the wines of G.V. will find their true value. Now the price is fixed by emotion and protectionist greed.

Think about quality when you test it...... not its origen.

Hook - 10-21-2006 at 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Think about quality when you test it...... not its origen.

If you do that, you will rarely buy GV wines.

I agree, Dennis. I'm not sure there are 21 days of frost in the GV.

Very enlightening post.

JESSE - 10-22-2006 at 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

When Mexico allows competition, the wines of G.V. will find their true value. Now the price is fixed by emotion and protectionist greed.

Think about quality when you test it...... not its origen.

I disagree with you, competition is already here, and it has been for years. If not you couldnt find the huge range of Chilean, Spanish, and Argentinian wines that you find in the supermarkets. The fact that you can find great 10 dollar chilean wines anywhere will prove theres no protectionism for anyone when it comes to wines.

The fact is, Mexicans wines are taxed under the same standars as liquor and beer are. That means that regardless of the quality that you produce, you can never equal your price with similar value wines from abroad. Thus, there is little incentive to produce top wines because you can always find cheaper foreing wines of equal quality.

I worked in perhaps the restaurant that sells more wine in all of Mexico. People buy more expensive Mexican wine because they like it. And for example, i have heard from many sommeliers from Chile and Spain, that american wines try too hard to please. Its a matter of taste.

JESSE - 10-24-2006 at 12:52 PM

Hey! this is a very interesting topic, don't tell me you guys don't want to keep it alive.

Anyways, i do not agree with some people that think California wines are better than lets say, Bordeaux wines. Yes california wines are immediate gratification fruit bombs, but that in my opinion, is not the royal standar on wich all wines should be measured. Mexicans wines lean more towards Bordeaux than California, more subtle, more relaxed, and definately not too desperate to please.

[Edited on 10-24-2006 by JESSE]

Bajamatic - 10-24-2006 at 01:05 PM

Yeah - keep talking.

I had a cab from Santo Tomas in the Todos santos wine bar and thought it was pretty dam good.

I wondered why I cant find it in the states, meanwhile chile and Arg. are churning out fantastic <10 dollar bottles. Explains some things.

Yes, but ...

Dave - 10-24-2006 at 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
Hey! this is a very interesting topic, don't tell me you guys don't want to keep it alive.

Anyways, i do not agree with some people that think California wines are better than lets say, Bordeaux wines. Yes california wines are immediate gratification fruit bombs, but that in my opinion, is not the royal standar on wich all wines should be measured. Mexicans wines lean more towards Bordeaux than California, more subtle, more relaxed, and definately not too desperate to please.

[Edited on 10-24-2006 by JESSE]

Who wouldn't prefer an French Estate Bordeaux, or a Grand Cru Chablis vs. a Cal CabSav or Chardonnay?

My pockets aren't that deep.

Mexican vintner's experiment with the French tradition is noble. But even if they were successful, who would pay the price and where is the market? If someone can afford $3-400 & up for a great bottle the're gonna buy French. (I would.)

Mexico needs to compete with Cal at the under $40 level. They ain't doing a good job.

BTW, just what is the VAT structure, per liter? How much tax is added to a bottle?

Hook - 10-24-2006 at 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Trader Joes ---- Two [3] Buck Chuck. Absolutley defies snobbery.

I had several bottles of the very first rollout of the Charles Shaw. I thought the Chard and the Merlot (or was it a Cab?) were really pretty good.

I have tried other versions since and have been disappointed.

JESSE - 10-24-2006 at 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Who wouldn't prefer an French Estate Bordeaux, or a Grand Cru Chablis vs. a Cal CabSav or Chardonnay?

My pockets aren't that deep.

I don't think Mexican wines want to compete with California, and in my opinion, they shouldnt. I think one of the main mistakes Bordeaux made was to try to compare itself to California, wich was a mistake because the styles and caracteristics of both wines are very different.

I think our wines should follow their own path, and its too early to tell where this is going to end.

Mexitron - 10-24-2006 at 04:52 PM

I would love to drink some Baja wines but at $35 I can get a LeCuvier Pentimento from John Muench at Paso Robles or a Lucia Pinot from Monterey Co...still though, would like to go wine tasting in the G.V., heard its getting better in spots.

Incidentally--Two Buck Chuck is cardboard box wine repackaged(Franzia I think) in bottles--buy the box and save even more...we make Sangria with it every year at our favorite Baja spot....everyone pitches in cutting fruit to make it in the morning, by 2:00 in the afternoon its ready and, well, not much gets done the rest of the day!

Will try

Hook - 10-24-2006 at 05:01 PM

always looking for a good cheapo wine.

If you see any of the Crane Lake Petite Syrah around, that is another ~5.00 bottle of good juice.

JESSE - 10-24-2006 at 05:22 PM

You guys chek out the following Chileans, they are very good for the price:

Concha y Toro TRIO Merlot blend
Ventisquero reserva Merlot

Just a recent personal experience

Gypsy Jan - 10-24-2006 at 05:34 PM

Jesse and others are the professionals, and I can't argue the fine points of the state of the wine industry and how they control quality, I am just a happy consumer; but there is a lot of exciting growth and creativity going on in the Guadalupe Valle.

Last month we took some friends to lunch at Laja Restaurant in the GV. A fabulous meal, 5 star meal, nuff said.

We had a "Xina" (as I recall) Zinfandel to accompany (#'s xxx in a bottling of 350). The price per bottle was around $30.

Our guests, who are sophisticated and experienced about wine and food, raved about the wine and how it went equally well with the fish and meat courses.

I suspect that the Baja wine producers have not solved the hugh issues concerning product quality control and distribution. Monte Xanic wines, which I love, are for sale in the grocery stores in Rosarito, but I find them disappointing there - I don't think the stores handle them properly.

I think the answer for now is to go to the producers or the individual restaurants that understand the wine and enjoy them there.

I firmly believe that there are world class wines being produced by dedicated people in the GV.

JESSE - 10-24-2006 at 07:24 PM

I find Monte Xanic has lagged behind others in the Guadalupe Valley. They still have the name (and the price), but the quality has not improved that much compared to others. The real jewels are to be found with the small producers and some of the up and comers that are doing pretty good work.

I wish you would stop doing that

Dave - 10-24-2006 at 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
Monte Xanic wines, which I love, are for sale in the grocery stores in Rosarito, but I find them disappointing there

The aisles are difficult to negotiate as it is.

Dave - 10-24-2006 at 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
The real jewels are to be found with the small producers

Mogor Badan, one of the smallest produces lovely wine. Good luck finding any at retail.