BajaNomad

To Hose A

JESSE - 10-29-2006 at 11:33 AM

I was out of town for a day so i couldnt read the response to my post about the cops in baja north. 1st of all i apologize if you think i called you a liar, that was not my intention. But i stand by my opinion that ALL police agencies in Baja Norte are corrupt, and no rookie is ever given responsabilities to fight drug cartels because to beging with. Local and state cops do not have jurisdiction to fight narcotics, a federal offense that only the AFI can handle. So, how come these cops who dont even legally have the power to fight drugs are getting killed by the cartels?

Put two and two togheter, and any long time resident of that area knows what happening there.

I applaud the fact that many want to help here, but like i said, roookies in local and state police agencies are not supposed to be involved with drugs. And regradless of what you think, drug cartels dont just go around killing innocent people left and right.

Al G - 10-29-2006 at 12:13 PM

Jesse...I claim no expertize here, but if you are saying that State Police are not involve in any drug enforcement, this real hard to believe. Every single agency here is. Why is it so different there? I also think even low level drug bust can generate Cartel like retaliations. Why is this entire subject seem to be based on NO HOPE.

Diver - 10-29-2006 at 12:23 PM

I'd say that after knowing Hose through this board, I do not think he is a reactionary. I think he is an intelligent, caring man of action who is able and not afraid to help others whenever possible. I think his opinions are given honestly and with personal knowledge. In this case, I believe he is close to this situation. There are many things in life that need change and a giving, compassionate man that steps forward to help enable change, help others and make a difference is to be applauded, in my book !

I look forward to the opportunity to meet and shake your hand Hose'.
And thank you for the DVD.
.

JESSE - 10-29-2006 at 12:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Al G
Jesse...I claim no expertize here, but if you are saying that State Police are not involve in any drug enforcement, this real hard to believe. Every single agency here is. Why is it so different there? I also think even low level drug bust can generate Cartel like retaliations. Why is this entire subject seem to be based on NO HOPE.


Its in our constitution, it doesnt work, but it is. And i am not a guy who is not optimistic about the future, but personally with what i know wich i am not going to disclose here if i want to keep enjoying baja for years to come. I wouldnt give any cop in that area a dime.

JESSE - 10-29-2006 at 12:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Diver
I'd say that after knowing Hose through this board, I do not think he is a reactionary. I think he is an intelligent, caring man of action who is able and not afraid to help others whenever possible. I think his opinions are given honestly and with personal knowledge. In this case, I believe he is close to this situation. There are many things in life that need change and a giving, compassionate man that steps forward to help enable change, help others and make a difference is to be applauded, in my book !

I look forward to the opportunity to meet and shake your hand Hose'.
And thank you for the DVD.
.


He is, and if he knows that cops personally and wants to do it, thats is desition. I just felt many on the board think theres actually good cops out there who happen to need masks, and i am sorry, but to me and most locals, thats just does not make sense.

Hose A has all my respect.

Al G - 10-29-2006 at 12:44 PM

Jesse...Can you say if you have seen any improvement in the last 2+- years?
How do you think Calderon will/can help, as you indicated in a previous post.

Diver - 10-29-2006 at 12:58 PM

I would be curious if any of you, such as Jesse, who are closer to the actual situation would offer any opinions on what it will take to improve the police and crime situation in Baja. Is there anything else that we could be doing to help ?
.

JESSE - 10-29-2006 at 01:24 PM

The situation has worsened to the point that armed convoys of up to 10 cars roam Tijuana and other cities in broad daylight. Do you understand what level of corruption it takes for 10 cars to drive around town with 30 or 40 armed men in broad daylight and NO COP notices? do you understand that for that to happen the top brass is either looking the other way or collaborating. And you are telling me this same top brass is sending rookies to fight the very same people they fail to see day after day after day?

To improve things you need at least to carry one these basic steps:

1.-Create maximum security prisons in remote areas or islands where inmates cannot comunicate with the outside world, and cannot meet with lawyers everyday.

2.-Reform the judicial system to reduce prosecution of crimes from 5 years today, to months.

3.-Create secret tribunals where offenders are judged by magistrates from secret locations online.

4.-Create tax crime units to monitor luxury car and home sales in states where ther is heavy drug problems.

5.-Increase the number of military intelligence and assault units dedicated solely to hunting drug lords.

6.-Create laws to punish dirty cops with heavy jail time if they are caught taking bribes, instead of just getting fired like we have today.

7.-Stop looking for Police officers in ads in newspapers. That only atracts people who know what cops do, and are only interested in money. So we have to create recruiting methods that look for young men who have no interest in law enforcement but who are patriotic and willing to sacrifice for their nation.

8.-Give new recruits tax credits, good salaries, good education for their children, loans for good homes, and a good life. And maybe even work out details for those that work in very sensitive stuff , so they can dissapear in the US for years and come back with new identities in Mexico.

DENNIS - 10-29-2006 at 02:29 PM

Good points Jesse .... radical but good. Maybe a liberal death penalty to go along with it as well.

Your first point sounds like Guantanamo. Why not?

lizard lips - 10-29-2006 at 03:26 PM

The points you made are excellent Jesse. The only other thing I could add is to fire all of the "Old Guard". I think you have to start fresh and get rid of those who have been on the dole for years and have abused the system to the extreme. Also if there is a question regarding an officer, use the lie detector.

DENNIS - 10-29-2006 at 03:33 PM

Yeah .. Good idea. Use the lie detector most favored in Mexico, the Sears Die-Hard.

lizard lips - 10-29-2006 at 03:36 PM

The cattle prod is also good Dennis

Skeet/Loreto - 10-29-2006 at 04:02 PM

Jesse: Your words are indeed Severe: I think it would be very easy to stop the Problems:

Stop the Demand!
Build large Hospital Camps all over the U.S.-
Make it a 5 year Sentence-No buy outs for all Addicts.

Make it a Death Penalty for Second time Drug Dealers- Firing Squads so that the American Public can Watch.

Anyone selling Drugs to Children- Immediate Death-

Anyone caught bringing Drugs to the States- Shot on Site.

Stop the Demand and it would stop the Corruption in Mexico as there would be no More Profit.

All persons convicted of using Drugs would get 5 years Hard Labor with assistance in Kicking the Addiction.


Anon The Preacher

bancoduo - 10-29-2006 at 04:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Jesse: Your words are indeed Severe: I think it would be very easy to stop the Problems:

Stop the Demand!
Build large Hospital Camps all over the U.S.-
Make it a 5 year Sentence-No buy outs for all Addicts.

Make it a Death Penalty for Second time Drug Dealers- Firing Squads so that the American Public can Watch.

Anyone selling Drugs to Children- Immediate Death-

Anyone caught bringing Drugs to the States- Shot on Site.

Stop the Demand and it would stop the Corruption in Mexico as there would be no More Profit.

All persons convicted of using Drugs would get 5 years Hard Labor with assistance in Kicking the Addiction.


Anon The Preacher
Sounds like a Rush Limbaugh statement. Lets get tough as long as it don't apply to I.:lol:

vgabndo - 10-29-2006 at 04:46 PM

Skeet: Consider this. The two most dangerous drugs in America are tobacco and alcohol. They combine to kill more Americans every year than all the street drugs put together. Tobacco kills tens of thousands "second hand". So what you propose is that if an undercover cop sees the clerk at the 7/11 sell Camels to a kid for the second time, he should just drag her across the counter, into the parking lot and shoot her to death. Even more legitimate would be if a law enforcement officer saw a person smoking a cigarette in a car with a kid in a car seat he just drags her to the pavement and puts a couple of 9's in her brain.

Before you start executing people without a trial, Skeet, you'd better be lobbying for reform of our drug laws.

I'm just a radical as you. Most times I see some suicidal bozo sucking on a butt, I just think about how he is causing MY insurance premiums to go up. They don't just quietly die you know...they want their insurance company to buy them new lungs.:fire:

bancoduo - 10-29-2006 at 04:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
Skeet: Consider this. The two most dangerous drugs in America are tobacco and alcohol. They combine to kill more Americans every year than all the street drugs put together. Tobacco kills tens of thousands "second hand". So what you propose is that if an undercover cop sees the clerk at the 7/11 sell Camels to a kid for the second time, he should just drag her across the counter, into the parking lot and shoot her to death. Even more legitimate would be if a law enforcement officer saw a person smoking a cigarette in a car with a kid in a car seat he just drags her to the pavement and puts a couple of 9's in her brain.

Before you start executing people without a trial, Skeet, you'd better be lobbying for reform of our drug laws.

I'm just a radical as you. Most times I see some suicidal bozo sucking on a butt, I just think about how he is causing MY insurance premiums to go up. They don't just quietly die you know...they want their insurance company to buy them new lungs.:fire:
Don't fall off the soupbox DUDE.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Al G - 10-29-2006 at 05:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
Skeet: Consider this. The two most dangerous drugs in America are tobacco and alcohol. They combine to kill more Americans every year than all the street drugs put together. Tobacco kills tens of thousands "second hand". So what you propose is that if an undercover cop sees the clerk at the 7/11 sell Camels to a kid for the second time, he should just drag her across the counter, into the parking lot and shoot her to death. Even more legitimate would be if a law enforcement officer saw a person smoking a cigarette in a car with a kid in a car seat he just drags her to the pavement and puts a couple of 9's in her brain.

Before you start executing people without a trial, Skeet, you'd better be lobbying for reform of our drug laws.

I'm just a radical as you. Most times I see some suicidal bozo sucking on a butt, I just think about how he is causing MY insurance premiums to go up. They don't just quietly die you know...they want their insurance company to buy them new lungs.:fire:

I do not disagree with you concept on smoking, but the rest of your post is just a twist job to promote your view, sorta like politicians do.

vgabndo - 10-29-2006 at 06:03 PM

I don't see where you get the "twist' Albert. Skeet is advocating immediate execution for selling drugs to kids. Are you saying that tobacco and alcohol are not drugs? Are you seriously going to try to make the point that they don't kill more people than all the street drugs put together. There's no "twist" there. Our drug laws are irrational. The smoking and drinking *tail* is wagging the DOG. Aweful metaphor.:lol:

If the availability, or legality, of drugs was based on social costs alone we would be working on a whole different equation, wouldn't we.

Just for curiosity's sake; do you smoke cigarettes Al?

lizard lips - 10-29-2006 at 07:28 PM

Is that mineral water Larry----If it is I dont need to ask a Mexican

I understand your sentiments exactly!

Dave - 10-29-2006 at 10:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
I wouldnt give any cop in that area a dime.



Here, most of the locals won't give the police a single common courtesy. It's like they don't exist. From a Mexican, that's the ultimate sign of disrespect.

A disrespect most have earned.

bajamigo - 10-29-2006 at 10:18 PM

If you want honest insight into life in the Policia, especially for rookies, check out a film called "Entre Llamas," produced and directed by Carlos Victorica. You'll probably have to google it to find where it's sold, but it's an absolute must-see if you live in Baja.

Bruce R Leech - 10-30-2006 at 07:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
The situation has worsened to the point that armed convoys of up to 10 cars roam Tijuana and other cities in broad daylight. Do you understand what level of corruption it takes for 10 cars to drive around town with 30 or 40 armed men in broad daylight and NO COP notices? do you understand that for that to happen the top brass is either looking the other way or collaborating. And you are telling me this same top brass is sending rookies to fight the very same people they fail to see day after day after day?

To improve things you need at least to carry one these basic steps:

1.-Create maximum security prisons in remote areas or islands where inmates cannot comunicate with the outside world, and cannot meet with lawyers everyday.

2.-Reform the judicial system to reduce prosecution of crimes from 5 years today, to months.

3.-Create secret tribunals where offenders are judged by magistrates from secret locations online.

4.-Create tax crime units to monitor luxury car and home sales in states where ther is heavy drug problems.

5.-Increase the number of military intelligence and assault units dedicated solely to hunting drug lords.

6.-Create laws to punish dirty cops with heavy jail time if they are caught taking bribes, instead of just getting fired like we have today.

7.-Stop looking for Police officers in ads in newspapers. That only atracts people who know what cops do, and are only interested in money. So we have to create recruiting methods that look for young men who have no interest in law enforcement but who are patriotic and willing to sacrifice for their nation.

8.-Give new recruits tax credits, good salaries, good education for their children, loans for good homes, and a good life. And maybe even work out details for those that work in very sensitive stuff , so they can dissapear in the US for years and come back with new identities in Mexico.


First of all I think you and Hose A are talking about 2 deferent things that are related. I think what Hose A is doing is to supplement your #8 above buy giving some recruits a little equipment to help keep them alive until they get there first pay check.

second these rookies are being sent out on drug busts. mostly because the more experienced police are afraid to do so.

third I agree with what you say about it is going to take extreme measures to correct this problem. and the ones you listed are all good ones. I think it will take all these and more and none of these are to extreme.

Spyderman - 10-30-2006 at 09:14 AM

A quick and simple look at history will show you that laws and enforcement do not work. Let government do what they do best, tax it. Do away with all laws making drugs illegal and you can put that law enforcement segment to work putting murderers, rapists, child molester, robbers etc away. Put heroin, cocaine, marijuana and all the rest in the same catagory as alcohol and cigarettes and then tax it to the max.

Diver - 10-30-2006 at 09:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Spyderman
A quick and simple look at history will show you that laws and enforcement do not work. Let government do what they do best, tax it. Do away with all laws making drugs illegal and you can put that law enforcement segment to work putting murderers, rapists, child molester, robbers etc away. Put heroin, cocaine, marijuana and all the rest in the same catagory as alcohol and cigarettes and then tax it to the max.



What a radical thought for a democracy !!
Let the people decide what they want to do with/to themselves ? and then tax them on the impact it creates ??
WOW !! I kinda like it !
.

Bruce R Leech - 10-30-2006 at 09:38 AM

Legalizing drugs wont work when you have a corrupt government. you must first clean up the government then you can start to fix other things.

dose anyone have any ideas on how to clean up the government?

Diver - 10-30-2006 at 10:24 AM

I just saw an ad for a new kleenex that kills 99.9% of the germs that you collect into it ........



Sounds like a major social uprising would be needed be the people to say enough is enough. As communications sources improve in Mexico, things will be more transparent to many more people. Maybe then....
.

Al G - 10-30-2006 at 10:38 AM

Diver...You have hit the nail on the head.

Bruce R Leech - 10-30-2006 at 10:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Diver
I just saw an ad for a new kleenex that kills 99.9% of the germs that you collect into it ........



Sounds like a major social uprising would be needed be the people to say enough is enough. As communications sources improve in Mexico, things will be more transparent to many more people. Maybe then....
.



it sounds like that is starting in Oaxaca:light:

Bruce R Leech - 10-30-2006 at 10:50 AM

Jesse what do you think about what is going on in Oaxaca?

Oaxaca today!

bancoduo - 10-30-2006 at 11:14 AM

http://www.banderasnews.com/0610/nr-policecontrol.htm

JESSE - 10-30-2006 at 11:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
Jesse what do you think about what is going on in Oaxaca?


Its a combination of many things.

1.-An old fashion corrupt governor who thinks Oaxaca hasnt changed in the past 20 years. (elected by oaxacans)

2.-A combination of comunist, marxists, and anarchist groups who togheter with the teachers, made an explosive combination.

3.-Vicente Fox's failure to deal with the problem because he didnt want to give Lopez Obrador any ammo to increase the anger of the poor.


In my opinion, the federal goverment should never negotiate with people who break the law.

Bruce R Leech - 10-30-2006 at 12:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
Jesse what do you think about what is going on in Oaxaca?


Its a combination of many things.

1.-An old fashion corrupt governor who thinks Oaxaca hasnt changed in the past 20 years. (elected by oaxacans)

2.-A combination of comunist, marxists, and anarchist groups who togheter with the teachers, made an explosive combination.

3.-Vicente Fox's failure to deal with the problem because he didnt want to give Lopez Obrador any ammo to increase the anger of the poor.


In my opinion, the federal goverment should never negotiate with people who break the law.


I agree the federal government should never negotiate with people who break the law. that would be a good place to start.

vgabndo - 10-30-2006 at 04:51 PM

I'm with Spyderman and Diver...

Decriminalizing "drugs" takes the profit out of it. You don't see any bootleggers running around selling bathtub gin because there is so much money in it, right?

Pot is probably the BEST example of the connection between illegality and the profit motive. Here is a weed that damned near anyone can grow damned near anywhere almost without cost. Because it is illegal, it sells on the street for just under the price of GOLD. People who are willing to break the law for the big money WILL come out of the woodwork to sell it. Take the profit out of it, and you'll take the bad guys out of it.

Interestingly, almost every story I read about a large pot "plantation" being busted in this County reports that the growers were undocumented people from Mexico.

My understanding is that it is cheaper to turn them over to immigration to send otro lado than to prosecute them, they know that so there is no lack of "farmers" out to make the BIG money.

My Congressman, Wally Herger (R) CA-2 is running on a platform which favors reducing the taxes on both alcohol and tobacco, and he rejects even the medical use of marijuana.

We probably have a ways to go.:lol:

[Edited on 10-31-2006 by vgabndo]

Bruce R Leech - 10-30-2006 at 08:40 PM

are you talking about the USA or MEXICO or both?


I agree with the USA legalizing but not Mexico:light:

[Edited on 10-31-2006 by Bruce R Leech]

vgabndo - 10-30-2006 at 09:43 PM

That's interesting Bruce...how do you see the difference?

I can sorta see how corruption not allowing free enterprise leaving a place for the gangsters to continue their terror.

If that makes any sense?:lol:

Notwithstanding that goofy sentence, I am NOT loaded!!:P

[Edited on 10-31-2006 by vgabndo]

Bruce R Leech - 10-31-2006 at 07:13 AM

I just don't think Mexico can handle it with the total corruption in the government. but if the USA would do it it would eliminate a lot of the market for the cartels down here.