BajaNomad - Natural wilderness areas

Natural wilderness areas

RICHARDH - 11-15-2006 at 05:55 PM

Most of the reading material I've found on visiting Baja seems to want to steer visitors to the many "tourist traps" in Baja, however economical some of them may be.

However, I think it is probably best to think of my planned visit to Baja as that of a "visitor interested in natural wilderness" rather than as a "tourist", even though I will be visiting by use a "tourist visa/card".

Can anyone please indicate where I can find (non-"tourist") information on visiting Baja for Baja's natural wilderness values?

I really do want to learn a lot about Baja's natural wilderness areas, including those that may be very little known to most tourists (or even long-term Nortamericano residents/visitors of Baja).

[Edited on 11-16-2006 by RICHARDH]

woody with a view - 11-15-2006 at 06:25 PM

richard-

welcome to the best place to get what you seek. use the search feature for all of the places you wanna go, or have heard of. also, just sit back and absorb for a month or so and i'm sure something will pop up that interests you. when that happens, jump in and fire away. there are ALOT of good folks here willing to share!

see ya on the beach-

Diver - 11-15-2006 at 06:29 PM

So how long have you been a Sierra Club member ?? :smug:

Give us some more idea of how long you have to travel, what you'd like to see, do you want to be on the water or in the desert, what your offroad capabilities are, etc. There are remote islands that you need permits to camp on and many other desert, high country and hard-to-reach beaches.

Also lots of books to Google on Baja winderness and remote camping.

.

bajalou - 11-15-2006 at 06:52 PM

Been wondering when you'd get here, Richard. :biggrin:

This site has lots of archives, so use the search function and it'll give you a big start.

RICHARDH - 11-15-2006 at 08:41 PM

Presently, I'm planning a visit for about 6 months beginning in January or February of this next year. That plan is based on a recommendation that I visit the area of Baja Sur spanning from about Mulege to Loreto beginning in Feb or March.

At the time the recommendation was made I probably said I was interested in visiting areas with very few tourists and other crowds. But what I'm really interested in is Baja's natural wilderness.

I will be driving a (two-wheel drive) 1984 Ford Ranger mini-pickup with slide-in camper and perhaps I may be towing a small, enclosed utility trailer made from the bed and chassis of a mini-pickup. (I am rather experienced at driving on "primitive" backroads, including a few 4WD roads/trails with these and other vehicles.)

So I am especially interested in camping in the style that in the US is typically called "remote" camping -- in particular, free camping outside of any campgrounds.

To give you an idea of the approach to wilderness visits and camping that's typical for me, you might take a look at my web site http://haneyR.blogspot.com and search on "Quinn" to peruse regarding my visits to the Quinn Canyon Range in south central Nevada. (I recommend using Internet Explorer for smoother transitions in the slideshows.) The web page has additional pointers on how best to view the photos.

I anticipate using my pickup/camper as a base camp and then sometimes backpacking perhaps a mile or two to get deeper into natural wilderness. I may want to then take a good deal of time getting familiar with the details of the local flora and fauna and the comings and goings of the local wildlife.

So far I've read most of John Robinson's book *Camping and Climbing in Baja* (La Siesta Press, 1989) and so come May or later I will probably want to visit Laguna Hansen and take with me some detailed maps of the local backroads and trails and then do some exploring in the area.

I also understand that the central desert is an especially interesting area for natural desert wilderness. So I will probably want to visit that area early in my visit to Baja.

But I need some more detailed information about that area, especially good maps and other information about backroads and such in that area. I understand that there is a highly recommended tourist campground in Catavina. So I'm thinking I may spend one night there as a stepping-stone or jumping-off place to no-fee camping and wilderness visits in the central desert.

I know very little (natural-wilderness-wise) about the area from San Ignacio to Loreto, and would like to learn more about any natural wilderness in that general area.

I've read some about the upper forests of the Sierra de la Laguna, but have very little specific information relevant to visiting that area on my own, which is what I'd probably prefer to do.

Finally, I suppose there may be a lot of other natural wilderness on the peninsula that I have not heard about yet. So I don't want to "snub" those areas out of pure ignorance.

As for the Sierra Club, although my official membership is not current, I've been actively participating in the Club's wilderness advocacy activities and wilderness volunteer field work in California and Nevada for about 15 years now.

I hope this gives you a good idea for recommending sources of information.

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
So how long have you been a Sierra Club member ?? :smug:

Bajaboy - 11-15-2006 at 09:45 PM

Richard-

There are so many areas to explore...the Vizcaino Biosphere, the Catavina area, Tres Virgenes region, the mountains above Cabo San Lucas...I mean the list goes on and on.....Baja Sur has a lot of areas as does the north.

Here is a link to an expedition to one part of Baja by 30 scientists a few years back: http://www.sdnhm.org/research/aguaverde/index.html
It's one of my favorite parts of Baja Sur.

Narrow down your area of interest and I guarantee a Nomad has expertise.

Zac

Taco de Baja - 11-16-2006 at 01:01 PM

Quote:

Don't forget the San Pedro Martir, in BCN Go there and you will think you are in the pine forests of the California Sierra Nevada, just without as much water or peolpe.

Plus, you can climb the 2nd highest peak in Baja and get a great view of the highest peak (10,000+’), and if lucky see both the Pacific and the Gulf form the same spot.

wilderone - 11-16-2006 at 06:21 PM

Most of Baja is natural wilderness. Most of the side roads are on the Baja Almanac maps. So you can take a secondary road, drive about 10 miles or so, and backpack from that point away from the dirt road. Check out El Volcan, Las Pintas, Mission Santa Maria, La Bocana (petroglyphs), in the Norte. You'll love Rio San Ignacio. Lucky you - six months. Get a book called The Baja Adventure Book by Walt Peterson. Older publication, but a must-have for you.

Skipjack Joe - 11-17-2006 at 02:12 PM

Walt Peterson's 'Baja Adventure Book' is a must read for you. It's full of ideas and personal experiences:

http://www.amazon.com/Baja-Adventure-Book-Walt-Peterson/dp/0899972314

Martyman - 11-17-2006 at 02:47 PM

The Baja Catch (fishing guide) has led my friends and I to many remote beach camping areas

RICHARDH - 11-17-2006 at 04:49 PM

Many thanks, Zac.

I've started reading the excursion link. It's fabulous. These suggestions give me some rather interesting ideas to work on.

Richard

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy
Richard-

There are so many areas to explore...the Vizcaino Biosphere, the Catavina area, Tres Virgenes region, the mountains above Cabo San Lucas...I mean the list goes on and on.....Baja Sur has a lot of areas as does the north.

Here is a link to an expedition to one part of Baja by 30 scientists a few years back: http://www.sdnhm.org/research/aguaverde/index.html
It's one of my favorite parts of Baja Sur.

Narrow down your area of interest and I guarantee a Nomad has expertise.

Zac

RICHARDH - 11-17-2006 at 05:17 PM

I considered the San Pedro Martir, but the road in from the west is said to be rather rough beyond the Meling Ranch. I'll be driving a 2WD 1984 Ford Ranger mini-pickup with slide-in camper and perhaps also towing a small enclosed utility trailer.

So far, I have my doubts about how my "rig" would do on that road.

Probably the main issue would be unusually steep grades -- or even "normally" steep grades if the road is at all choppy or somewhat narrow, or winding hairpins, etc. I think my rig can probably handle 10% grades quite well if the road is sufficiently smooth, and maybe even if it's fairly bumpy.

Rough roads can turn the inside of my camper into a mixmaster. So I'd rather not have to rely on speed and momentum to get past any steep spots, especially if the road is rough there.

And I positively do not want to stall on a steep, winding grade. Very dangerous. Backing back down would be extremely difficult and hazerdous because the power steering and power brakes would be gone, rear-view visibility is extremely limited (must use mirrors), and the front brakes have been known to lock up on me with skidding and no steering as a result while the rear wheels roll.

At the very least I would probably disconnect my trailer and park it somewhere (if I'm towing it) before attempting to negotiate that road.

So is there a more accurate description of that road available?

Richard

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco de Baja

Don't forget the San Pedro Martir, in BCN Go there and you will think you are in the pine forests of the California Sierra Nevada, just without as much water or peolpe.

Plus, you can climb the 2nd highest peak in Baja and get a great view of the highest peak (10,000+’), and if lucky see both the Pacific and the Gulf form the same spot.

bajalou - 11-17-2006 at 09:08 PM

The road has been widened and paved.

marv sherrill - 11-17-2006 at 10:03 PM

Great ideas - buy a new rig - you are way too small and over loaded to visit the places you want to go - sorry - just being realistic -

Bajaboy - 11-17-2006 at 10:09 PM

Richard-

The road to San Pedro Martir is now paved most of the way...only the last 6 miles or so are dirt. And by Baja standards, the road is great. I last drove it about a month ago. In my opinion, you will find the washboard roads much more challenging that a few ruts in the road to SPM. I've been up there three times now have only scratched the surface. Cut and paste the following links to see some pictures.

: http://new.photos.yahoo.com/album?c=zacjohnston@sbcglobal.ne...

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/album?c=zacjohnston@sbcglobal.ne...

Zac

RICHARDH - 11-18-2006 at 02:48 PM

Thanks, Zac,

It now seems abundantly clear that getting access to the San Pedro Martyr should be no problem at all. Many thanks for your photos.

So now there is the question: Where is all the natural wilderness to be found up there? I imagine with all that bulldozing and road-building and grading and paving that there has been and is presently a significant increase in tourist visitation to the area. As is typical for places like that, a typical consequence is that what was wilderness becomes gradually (and sometimes suddenly) highly impacted by humans unless special precautions are taken to preserve the wilderness character in the area.

I can guess that maybe the essentially untrammeled wilderness up there known to humans may be areas that are only occasionally visited by vaqueros looking for their stray cattle. And I would guess that there may be additional, even-more-rugged, untrammeled wilderness known only to some locals who may have visited such areas in their youth as a result of youthful curiosity.

From what I've read, Picacho del Diablo, of course, appears to be a rather popular tourist destination now partly because it is a well-known, easily identifiable landmark that appears on maps and because lots of middle-aged men want to prove (to themselves and others) that they can still tackle such outdoor challenges -- it's cheaper than climbing Mt. Everest -- and it gives them something to brag about. And the fact that climbing the peak tends to be a lot of fun doesn't detract at all from the idea.

Does anyone have some recent photos of natural, untrammeled wilderness in the San Pedro Martyr?

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy
Richard-

The road to San Pedro Martir is now paved most of the way...only the last 6 miles or so are dirt. And by Baja standards, the road is great. I last drove it about a month ago. In my opinion, you will find the washboard roads much more challenging that a few ruts in the road to SPM. I've been up there three times now have only scratched the surface. Cut and paste the following links to see some pictures.

: http://new.photos.yahoo.com/album?c=zacjohnston@sbcglobal.ne...

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/album?c=zacjohnston@sbcglobal.ne...

Zac

Bajaboy - 11-18-2006 at 04:41 PM

Richard-

Each time I have been SPM, there has not been any other campers. In fact, the few people I've seen were either biologists, astronomers, or rangers. Camping, for the most part, is limited to an area near the entrance. And, there is only one road in the park. If you can't find wilderness there....well....you're not going to find it anywhere. I agree with your points but trust me when I say there is still plenty of open country there. Definately, SPM is one of my favorite places to escape to.

Zac

RICHARDH - 11-18-2006 at 09:45 PM

Zac,

I don't doubt that visitation is as sparse as you say. It's just surprising, considering the well-built road going in, as shown in your photos. But from your photos it looks like the road-building may have been very recent. So maybe tourists just have not had a chance yet to discover the new, relatively easy access.

According to the AAA's *Mexico's Baja California*, the park in the Sierra Juarez is also sparsely visited -- except during Easter week -- and the access road (when dry) is said to be fairly good for passenger vehicles. So that seems to be consistent with the sparse visitation in the San Pedro Martyr.

It's also surprising there would be a cafe (Cafe Lupita) up there with visitation being so sparse. (Or is the cafe in a village on the way up?)

The other idea I was alluding to is that it seems people have been living and working in the San Pedro Martyr for quite a substantial number of years now. And so I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't some (perhaps very small???) degree of human impact throughout the range, except perhaps for some rather rugged, "remote" pockets of utterly pristine wilderness.

John Robinson's book mentions various impacts in several places, including a fenced-off meadow, cattle trails criss-crossing the upper plateau, a cattle-abused meadow, and other references to cattle grazing. So I was trying to visualize the degree of human (including cattle) impacts in the area.

As usual, a picture (of natural, untrammeled wilderness) is worth a thousand words, and several pictures are worth even more.

The density of conifers and the ruggedness of terrain suggested in your photo "parque nacional 3" looks especially interesting.

By the way, Zac, is dispersed car camping permitted elsewhere in the park or is car camping permitted only in the campground?

I would guess that backpacking camps are probably permitted pretty much everywhere in the park. Yes?

Richard

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy
Richard-

Each time I have been SPM, there has not been any other campers. In fact, the few people I've seen were either biologists, astronomers, or rangers. Camping, for the most part, is limited to an area near the entrance. And, there is only one road in the park. If you can't find wilderness there....well....you're not going to find it anywhere. I agree with your points but trust me when I say there is still plenty of open country there. Definately, SPM is one of my favorite places to escape to.

Zac

Diver - 11-18-2006 at 09:56 PM

Richard,

After reading many of your posts; the doubting responses and questions; the search for more wilderness-like wilderness.......

Have you considered a trip to the moon ?? or Mars ??
(Oh yeh, man has been there also, it is probably spoiled.)

(Oh yeh, you can't get to either planet in an old 2wd truck.) :lol:

BajaDanD - 11-19-2006 at 12:11 AM

:::::::Have you considered a trip to the moon ?? or Mars ??
(Oh yeh, man has been there also, it is probably spoiled.
(Oh yeh, you can't get to either planet in an old 2wd truck.

I wonder if his CB wiil will work down on the bottom of one of those moon craters. :bounce:

OH dont drink the water on Mars either I got Mars'tazuma's Revenge the last time I went there. Oh wait there's no water on Mars maybe it was the rocks. :lol:

RICHARDH - 11-19-2006 at 04:49 PM

Diver and BajaDanD,

If you read "Failure to declare personal effects routinely results in the seizure of the goods as contraband, plus the seizure of the vehicle in which the goods are traveling for attempted smuggling. The recovery of the seized vehicle involves the payment of substantial fines and attorney's fees." and you knew nothing else about entering Baja, wouldn't you think the such practices to be pretty draconian? And especially since the customs laws are so poorly defined, wouldn't you think that's something to be scared about, especially if you usually carry a fair amount of odd-ball camping gear that conceivably some people might have some sort of a problem with understanding if they happen to be in some weird state of mind? I know from experience in the US that cops can be in a weird, harassment-prone state of mind, and I'm guessing that that sort of thing might be a more universal tendency; so I'm usually walking on eggs when it comes to legalistic stuff like that.

That's just an example. As you point out, I've asked questions about other things as well. I won't hash out the reasons for the other questions. I think the particular reasons for them were quite clear.

It makes perfect sense to me to try to get potential problems like that clarified. It seems to make good sense to be as best prepared as possible for some of the potential misfortunes that might occur.

I recognize that there are lots of different motivations that can play into the answers I get. Sometimes people only know a small part of the relevant story. Other times they may have some ulterior motivation (conscious or unconscious) for slanting their answers in various ways. And sometimes hints of ignorance or bias will come through in the answers. So I like to explore all sorts of variations and sources on questions that look like they will be important to get good answers for.

I've done lots and lots of traveling, and I've heard lots of stories and done lots of relevant reading as well. I know from experience that it pays to be wise.

Sorry to spoil your fun with a straight answer.

Richard

quote from Diver:
:::::::Have you considered a trip to the moon ?? or Mars ??
(Oh yeh, man has been there also, it is probably spoiled.
(Oh yeh, you can't get to either planet in an old 2wd truck.

quote from BajaDanD:
I wonder if his CB wiil will work down on the bottom of one of those moon craters. :bounce:

OH dont drink the water on Mars either I got Mars'tazuma's Revenge the last time I went there. Oh wait there's no water on Mars maybe it was the rocks. :lol:

mtgoat666 - 11-19-2006 at 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RICHARDH

Can anyone please indicate where I can find (non-"tourist") information on visiting Baja for Baja's natural wilderness values?

I really do want to learn a lot about Baja's natural wilderness areas, including those that may be very little known to most tourists (or even long-term Nortamericano residents/visitors of Baja).

[Edited on 11-16-2006 by RICHARDH]

Hard to find much up-to-date info on the wilder areas of Baja. The nice thing about the wild areas of Baja is that they are little visited and little written about. If you stick to the coast, you will find lots of people and lots of RVs and truck campers, etc., and lots of written advice about where to go. Not what you might call wilderness.

Only place you can get away from the RV, ORV, boating and retiree-expat crowds is the inland desert, ruged mountains and high mountains. Can't be more specific than that,... you will have to discover your own wilderness, or I will no longer have my wilderness.

wilderone - 11-20-2006 at 12:12 PM

Don't discount some destination because it's on the map and other people have gone there. Just outside those very limited boundaries, it IS untrammeled wilderness -- as much as you want and probably more than you bargained for. There's no water, plenty of rattlesnakes, thorny cholla and other cacti and many other hazards. Flash floods are not uncommon - any narrow canyon is susceptible, there are reports of cougar stalkings, it can freeze at night in January, the wind can blow 65 mph and drive a stinging sand storm. If you are prepared, you should not need to ferret out details - just do it. It is illogical to expect to find information on wilderness where nobody has gone.

RICHARDH - 11-20-2006 at 02:16 PM

Zac, mtgoat666, wilderone:

Zac,

Many thanks for your comments about San Pedro Martyr. SPM is now back at or near the top of my list of places to visit for natural wilderness.

mtgoat666, wilderone,

Thanks for your encouraging comments.

mtgoat666,

Your comments about the RV, ORV, boating and retiree-expat crowds vis-a-vis the coast, the inland desert, and the rugged and/or high mountains are along the lines of what I was surmising. Its nice to have a degree of confirmation for those ideas.

wilderone,

I agree that there is a certain "illogic" or at least a kind of "tension" about looking for information on natural, untrammeled wilderness. But _IF_ there is something written or reported (or a map available) about some area I might think likely to be natural, untrammeled wilderness, I'd like to know about it. It kind of helps in trying to focus better on the relevant possibilities. Ultimately, I will probably want to explore some areas because there is a blank space on the map for such places. But it helps to know what is generally known about the nearby places and the region as well.

Richard

wilderone - 11-20-2006 at 03:18 PM

You will be pleasantly surprised to find all the untrammeled wilderness you can handle.

Cypress - 11-20-2006 at 04:00 PM

Untrammeled wilderness? :?:

Sounds good.

David K - 11-20-2006 at 04:55 PM

Richard, please find time to cruise my web sites (links below) as they are mainly about natural and historic sites in Baja... not Cabo, Rosarito, etc.

A 4WD or off pavement vehicle is key to exploring the best of Baja and there is plenty to hike to from the end of the road!

Canyons are great: http://vivabaja.com/404

Missions, rock art and geology are great: http://vivabaja.com/403

Las Pintas is great: http://vivabaja.com/pintas

El Marmol and El Volcan are great: http://vivabaja.com/marmol

The new paved road into the San Pedro Martir and a trip from near Meling Ranch past Mike's Sky Rancho to Hwy. 3 is detailed here: http://vivabaja.com/905

Heck, it's all great!

I am happy to help, please contact me if there is something that I can provide! info*at*vivabaja.com

Cypress - 11-20-2006 at 05:12 PM

Wilderness areas are off limits for any mechanical/motorized equipment. Horses are allowed. :yes:

Neat country where you can really get away from the crowd. :bounce:

David K - 11-20-2006 at 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Wilderness areas are off limits for any mechanical/motorized equipment. Horses are allowed. :yes:

Neat country where you can really get away from the crowd. :bounce:

What are you talking about? This is about sites in Baja California, Mexico... away from cities and resorts... If you want to call that a 'wilderness area, go ahead. But, I have never seen signs closing off dirt roads in any area I have visited or written about. Closing public lands to the public is usually a stupid American thing. Mexico needs people to come and visit and appreciate the land... to return again and again.

Trying to preserve the historic sites through appreciation and awareness is what we are doing... See http://vivabaja.com/missions

Closing off an area to law abideing people won't help and the sites will be lost to vandals or the elements.

Cypress - 11-20-2006 at 05:48 PM

Oops! Was thinking about wilderness areas north of the border. Open to all members of the public that are willing to walk etc. and leave their vehicles behind. :yes:

David K - 11-20-2006 at 05:50 PM

Ok, I was getting scared Cypress... thanks for clearing that up! :biggrin: