BajaNomad

Two presidents??? That ought to be interesting!!!

thebajarunner - 11-21-2006 at 10:42 AM

Nov. 21, 2006 11:37 | Updated Nov. 21, 2006 11:39
Mexican leftist Lopez Obrador sworn in as head of parallel gov't
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
MEXICO CITY


Leftist Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador swore himself in as Mexico's "legitimate" president and launched a parallel government, promising to legally limit the power of big corporations and the "neo-fascist oligarchy" that he said now controls Mexico.

"I pledge ... to serve loyally and patriotically as legitimate president of Mexico," Lopez Obrador said during a ceremony on a blustery, bone-chilling Monday afternoon in the capital's main central plaza, the Zocalo - just 11 days before President-elect Felipe Calderon is sworn in as the nation's legal president.

"I pledge to protect the rights of Mexicans ... and ensure the happiness and welfare of the people," the former Mexico City mayor told an estimated 100,000 supporters - a smaller crowd than that generated by previous Lopez Obrador events.

The ceremony, which took place on the national holiday commemorating the Mexican Revolution, opened the latest chapter in Lopez Obrador's unsuccessful battle for the presidency.

He claims fraud and dirty campaign tactics were responsible for Calderon's narrow victory in the July 2 vote, and his parallel government could spend the next six years calling for the kind of street protests that have already prompted travel warnings from the US Embassy.

Rosario Ibarra, a human rights activist and senator for Lopez Obrador's coalition, placed the red-green-and-white presidential sash across his shoulders. While the action lacks legal recognition, Lopez Obrador hopes to assume the moral leadership of millions of poor Mexicans.

His parallel government, with a 12-member Cabinet, will not collect taxes or try to make laws, and it will rely on donations.

Lopez Obrador plans to spend three days a week in Mexico City and spend the other four days touring Mexico "to create the most important citizens' organization in all our history."

But his movement's first action will be to try to prevent Calderon's Dec. 1 inauguration ceremony.

"We are going to make Calderon realize at all times that he is an illegitimate leader," said 55-year-old Lopez Obrador supporter Beatriz Zuniga, an unemployed professor of Latin American studies. "He's got a limited amount of time. This man will not finish his term."

Calderon insisted again Monday that he will attend his swearing-in ceremony at the national Congress despite Lopez Obrador supporters' threats to disrupt it.

Lopez Obrador's supporters carried signs criticizing not only Calderon, but a variety of targets they say had tried to marginalize Lopez Obrador: the Roman Catholic Church, mainstream news media and even rival leftists such as Zapatista rebel leader Subcomandante Marcos.

But some members of his Democratic Revolutionary Party, or PRD, have already expressed disagreement with Lopez Obrador's strategy of using Congress - where the PRD is now the second-largest force - as an arena for protests rather than negotiations. Lopez Obrador pledged Monday to make more legislative proposals.

Some average citizens also have tired of Lopez Obrador's brand of political activism, which includes endorsing the leftist protesters who seized Oaxaca city for five months to demand the resignation of the state's governor. Lopez Obrador's own supporters blocked Mexico City's main boulevard for nearly two months this summer.

"This affects the country's image," said Marco Ramirez, 34, a university researcher watching the protesters from a sidewalk cafe, "It puts out a very bad image."

President Vicente Fox canceled a traditional Nov. 20 parade commemorating the country's 1910-1917 Revolution, apparently to avoid friction with Lopez Obrador's event.

toneart - 11-21-2006 at 11:15 AM

Bruce has posted that Mulege has also canceled the celebration and parade. I had noticed that almost every vehicle in Mulege had bumper stickers or signs in the windows, supporting Lopez Obrador.

No matter which candidate was favored, Mexico needs to unify in order to gain control of the cartel violence that is making it an increasingly unsafe country to travel or live in. Regarding the political situation in Oaxaca and Mexico City, I cannot comment. Being a U.S. citizen, I will butt out.

DianaT - 11-21-2006 at 11:36 AM

As we travel both Baja and the Mainland, I have been reading a lot about this unusual political situation.

I have wondered how people in Baja view the situation. What kind of effect do you think this will have on Baja?

Diane

comitan - 11-21-2006 at 11:41 AM

It certainly won't have any effect on La Paz, since he is not popular here.

Superb !

MrBillM - 11-21-2006 at 04:21 PM

Isn't that Obrador a hoot ? I was afraid he was going to give up and go away. Thankfully, he's decided to stick around and make mischief.

It makes things much more interesting.

thebajarunner - 11-21-2006 at 06:03 PM

Even Richard Nixon and AlBore had the class to step aside after questionable election results.
But not our boy AMLO......
No way!!
Gonna stick around and pee in the campfire all night long.

Hook - 11-22-2006 at 01:26 PM

I am wondering why Calderon doesnt launch a pre-emptive strike on some of the issues that AMLO considers his bread-and-butter?

Yes, in advance of his inauguration.........

The plight of the poor is one of AMLO's biggest causes and Calderon has conceded that it is one of his highest priorities, too. Why not lay out his plan right now, if he has it?

BTW, I was somewhat surprised to learn that PAN and PRI have formed a loose coalition within their Congress. The PRD's hold of 2nd place in delegates could be defused if the coalition holds together.

villadelfin - 11-22-2006 at 09:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
It certainly won't have any effect on La Paz, since he is not popular here.

Have you noticed the Lopez Obrador 2006 banners posted on CFE poles all over town? Someone is sure supporting him here. The CFE is a federal business last I heard.

Eli - 11-23-2006 at 05:44 AM

From what little I have seen over the last 4 months since I have resided in Oaxaca; it appears to me that the people who suffer most here because of the AMLO supported APPO protest and the teachers strike are not the wealthy, they have the money to ride it out, they can send their kids to private schools out of state.

Ah, but what these months of manifests have affected on the middle class, small businesses and the truly poor, these are the people who have been outright devastated by the actions of APPO and the press exploitation of the few isolated incidents of out in the open confrontations that have occurred since June.

The right to protest and manifest should be protected by those who claim to love this country, not abused as it has been by a few APPO thug. Those who with their blockades, graffiti and burning of busses, busting a few windows and doing all that they can to show their strength and gain support have instead intimated the average citizens who have over these long months of protest lost any interest in giving AMLO support. APPO is daily becoming a smaller minority here in Oaxaca City.

Although the situation is long from over; The kids are finally all back in school, commerce is returning to some degree of general normalcy here, government offices are more open than not. The mega march last Monday was only a couple hundred diehard strong, and the skirmishes that occurred downtown were a couple of hours of inconvenience for those of us who live on the block, we closed our doors and minded our own business as a few demonstrators burned a bus, breaking some windows on the Camino Real Hotel and the PFP retaliated with some pepper spray bombs, and that was about the extent of it.

The next Manifest is planned for this Saturday when Obrador is due to come to town to encourage his following, it would be interesting to see who that would be, at this point I wonder if he can round up more than a few hormone raging kids, maybe he will, I donno, but alas, I will be long gone. I leave for Mexico City on Friday night.



[Edited on 11-24-2006 by Eli]

Eli - 11-23-2006 at 05:51 AM

Villadelfin, The good news is; Over the years, I have seen the CFE post utilizied to advertise everything from a garage sale to a spay and nueturing your animal day to even a play, they are a handy place to staple a sign and are commonly used as such, one person can cover a lot of them in a few hours time, it has no bearing on who or how many support AMLO in Baja.

villadelfin - 11-23-2006 at 07:34 AM

Thank you Eli.

Will you be in DF long? How isolated are the protests there nowadays. It looked from photos that AMLO's inauguration was very well attended

Eli - 11-23-2006 at 08:09 AM

Villadelfin, I will just be in a suburb of the big D.F. visiting a dear friend for a few days and fly home on Tuesday.

I know, by our B.C.S. standards, 100,000 is a staggering amount of people. By D.F. standards, it represents what % of the population of the city? I am sure someone #'s smarter than me can come up with the exact amount.

I cannot denie AMLO's popularity or even the validity of why the party has come to exisit. I find myself in the off the wall anti party position, first because I just plain don't trust the promises of ANY politician and 2nd because I cannot support anyone who validates physical force as a means to propogate their version of how they will govern.

I, like most folks, gravate to birds of a feather, therefore I am speaking for a small piece of a big pie, and there are after all many slices in this pie. Still, the people I know who have no use for AMLO are of middle of the road folks similiar in views and a life style like my own. From that group of few, here in Oaxaca and in Mexico City too, there were many in the begginging who supported Obrador as the champion of the poor, but they like me can not support his means to an end. That, in the end, even though we might agree on need for reform, still, not that way, not via violence and disruption of every day poor peoples lives; The same people one is proposing to champion? No, I cannnot agree with the tatics he has used.

Sorry, I will try and step off the soap box now, I just put out more than anyone asked for, jeje, geez, talk about a sore spot with me, I guess I should stay clear of this subject and politics in general.

[Edited on 11-23-2006 by Eli]

Paula - 11-23-2006 at 09:06 AM

Sara, you are one of my best sources for news of how things are going in Oaxaca. A paragraph from you is worth 1000 from any newspaper, as they distort and sensationalize to make a "good" story, and you report what you see with your eyes and your heart.
I was supportive of Lopez Obrador early on, as I know that many people in southern Mexico felt left out in the cold by Fox, and too many suffer in poverty there. I think he may have received more votes than Calderon, but the recount is done, and he should step aside and offer to work with those in power if he really cares for his supporters and his country.

Sara

Baja Bernie - 11-23-2006 at 09:54 AM

Very well said and I would be happy to chime in but 'The Baja Runner' just came by and stole all of my soapboxes.
Perhaps he will make a speed run to you with a few boxes so that you may continue to keep us informed.

Dos Mas

MrBillM - 11-23-2006 at 10:13 AM

Well, Mexico is going to have TWO Presidents and now our Kooky neighbor to the North is going to have TWO COUNTRIES. Canuckia is considering legislation to declare Quebec a Nation within Canuckia to forestall the Government in Quebec from declaring themselves an Independent nation.

Fools to the Left of me, Fools to the Right.

Iflyfish - 11-23-2006 at 12:12 PM

And fools below too Bill,

I would like to see Oregon, Washington and British Columbia untite into a great country of The Pacific Northwest, eh? Excuse me would be our motto. Hockey would be our game. Salmon our national mascot. Pot our major cash crop and microbreweries on every corner. Did I fail to mention an expresso machine in every home!

Iflyfish when not fermenting revolution

Iflyfish - 11-23-2006 at 12:13 PM

Ah, ha!!!! I just graduated to Nomad with that post!!! Yea, Viva The Pacific Northwest!

Iflyfish when I am not celebrating my Nomad status

Eli - 11-24-2006 at 03:12 AM

All here in Oaxaca are batting down the hatches, waiting for this latest storm of Obrador to pass. I still say that even in the worst of times Oaxaca is a wonder of a place to be, I am so glad for the time I have been able to spend here this year. As I pack, I am already dreaming of when I can come back, hopefully Next July to a City freed of it's present strife.

O.k., I am packing up, that includes putting the soap boxes away. Hasta entonces, Sarita

Mayor of La Paz declares AMLO legitimate

villadelfin - 11-24-2006 at 08:22 AM

AMLO was in La Paz yesterday drumming up support for his self presidency. In front of a crowd of supporters 1500 strong (made up in large part by his entourage) he admitted that the bank account that people can make donations to has not been established yet because he is having trouble with the banks. Notably, the Mayor of La Paz was present and pledged the city's support of the legitimate president.

And Lopez O's presence in La Paz would explain the proliferation of AMLO banners put up recently on the power poles all over town.

[Edited on 11-24-2006 by villadelfin]

Paula - 11-24-2006 at 09:47 AM

Les,
Just to be clear as I don't know which party the mayor of La Paz is with, does he consider Lopez Obrador or Calderon to be the legitimate president? I assume he means Calderon?

shari - 11-24-2006 at 10:23 AM

Just a note on the "recount". there was NO recount, just a token checking of some islolated ballot boxes...where they did by the way find many "inconsistancies" but it was decided (by the governent in power!!!) they did not warrent a full recount of all ballots....and lots of people believe that Obrador probably got more votes. hmmmmm....sounds a bit like Florida to me.

Baja Bernie - 11-24-2006 at 10:52 AM

I find it interesting that ALMO is asking his supporters to send money to cover his "presidential salary of $4,200.00 per month, not much over the average working salary in Mexico.

This needs to be resolved before it devolves into many of the problems we have faced in the U.S.

Inconsistencies

MrBillM - 11-24-2006 at 10:55 AM

Every election in any country will have ballot inconsistencies. Even recounts have had inconsistencies found in a second-recount. Because of that, the standard is whether or not the inconsistency level was such that it would have likely affected the outcome and/or was there a pattern of organized fraud found to exist. "X-File" conspiracy theorists aside, The number of inconsistencies found did not warrant further action.

Although it is common for the detractors to "attempt" to rewrite the history of the Florida Election in 2000, the Truth is that, even if Goring had been successful in his challenge, GWB would have STILL been the victor. In a post-challenge recount paid for by various media sources hoping to "discover" that Goring would have won, they found just the opposite. Only utilizing the most favorable (to Gore) of three interpretations of so-called "ambiguous" ballots AND applying that standard to a complete Statewide recount, would Goring have won by a narrow margin. The lawsuit in behalf of the Goring campaign would NOT have resulted in a reversal because they were not asking for a Statewide recount, but rather only selected precincts where they felt they had the best chance. The media recount found that those precincts would not have produced a Goring victory.

[Edited on 11-24-2006 by MrBillM]

Cypress - 11-24-2006 at 02:54 PM

Is there a North Mexico-South Mexico on the horizon? Something like North Korea/South Korea? North Vietnam/South Vietnam?:no:

villadelfin - 11-24-2006 at 05:42 PM

Paula, the mayor of La Paz is of the same party as AMLO. He called Felipe Calderon the il legitimate president and claims AMLO to be the legitimate one. http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n76019.htm

The soapbox is back in place.... wail away, big bubba!

thebajarunner - 11-24-2006 at 11:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Bernie
Very well said and I would be happy to chime in but 'The Baja Runner' just came by and stole all of my soapboxes.
Perhaps he will make a speed run to you with a few boxes so that you may continue to keep us informed.


I just returned from Carmel to discover that I had been accused of silencing Bernie.
Nothing could be further removed from my intentions.
Get someone to help you up on the box and orate away, amigo!

FARASHA - 11-25-2006 at 02:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Is there a North Mexico-South Mexico on the horizon? Something like North Korea/South Korea? North Vietnam/South Vietnam?:no:

VERY interesting considerations!
Could that really happen? or is this just spinning thoughts?
Lets assume it really would happen - what would that mean for BAJA ? Would US react ?
What influence will it have on Nomads?

Iflyfish - 11-25-2006 at 02:58 AM

MrBillM,

That Florida election was a real piece of work. Poor overworked Harris had to both be in charge of Bush's campaign and in charge of elections in Florida. Same story with Blackwell in Ohio. He was also in charge of Bush's election machine as well as being in charge of elections. How could anyone question their impartiality? Hundreds tossed off the roles after Harris hired an outside company to purge the rolls. How could anyone question her impartiality. It certainly should be absolutely clear to all that it was a fair and honest election.

By the way, who won the popular vote in that election? Who won the popular vote in Kerry vs. Bush? Question for the day: Who and how many in the Bush administration had children working for the Supreme Court Justices who decided in favor of Bush during Bush V Gore?

After watching this come down in the US is there any questions why Mexicans could question their count? Can't imagine election fraud in either the US or Mexico?

Iflyfish when not counting black voters purges from Florida voting lists

villadelfin - 11-25-2006 at 09:02 AM

The mayor of La Paz must have taken some heat for his stance Thursday. Yesterday he clarified his position saying he would continue to support his party and Lopez Obrador but
'I also know clearly, that in spite of all the differences in the different political actors it is necessary to respect our functions, our political convictons and principles'. 'Legally, a verdict occured,...institutionally it is necessary to work with those who defined the courts'
Cosio Castro stated that he is mayor of all and for all...and as municipal President of La Paz, will continue working with all those that of good faith help to improve the well-being of all the paceños'

He further declared (and help me out here, Lencho or Oso, with my translation) 'With Felipe Calderon we will have action, with Lopez Obrador, policy.'

Con Felipe Caleron, haremos obras, con Lopez Obrador, Política

Paula - 11-25-2006 at 09:17 AM

This seems like a good move on the part of Cosio Castro. One president is enough for Mexico (and sometimes one too many for the United States!).

What does popular vote have to do with it?

thebajarunner - 11-25-2006 at 10:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
MrBillM,



By the way, who won the popular vote in that election? Who won the popular vote in Kerry vs. Bush? Question for the day: Who and how many in the Bush administration had children working for the Supreme Court Justices who decided in favor of Bush during Bush V Gore?



Iflyfish when not counting black voters purges from Florida voting lists



Winning the popular vote is like wearing the best suit, it may be pretty but it don' mean squat (nada)
Check out the US Constitution, you will see what I mean,
as far as your comment about "black voter purges"......
It may, just possibly, balance out the dead white voters in Democratic Chicago, naaaahhh, not a chance it would be that many.

Finally, to Baja and Mexico (which is the real point) in the end the local politicos will come around- they always do. And AMLO will sit on his haunches and howl at the moon and that will be about as far as it goes.

For Whatever It's Worth (Zero ?).

MrBillM - 11-25-2006 at 11:20 AM

Goring and his Fourth Reich won the nationwide "popular" vote in 2000.

Bush won the same in 2004.

So What !

As already pointed out, that's not how the Constitution defined the system.

After the fact Appointed investigations determined there was NO evidence of any intentional denial of voting rights to ANY group. Had there been actual EVIDENCE, other than the accusations printed on the various Lefty "conspiracy" Wacko sites, SOMEONE would have been indicted on State and/or Federal charges and that didn't happen. Face it, the courts in Florida sympathized with everything else the Demis came up with. One can pick and choose various isolated difficulties, but there were those same problems in Bush Strongholds, too, including the Panhandle area of Florida AND the Military Absentee voting.

GET OVER IT. The Horse you're beating has been DEAD for quite awhile now. Only when a bunch of you in the Choir get together and trade talking points does any of it seem to make sense. Your whining is childish and pointless,
************************************************.


OK, let's now get back to the HARPO, I mean AMLO, Vaudeville act.



[Edited on 11-25-2006 by MrBillM]

[Edited on 11-27-2006 by BajaNomad]