BajaNomad

Loreto Waterfront access

Don Alley - 11-30-2006 at 06:26 PM

Ensenada Blanca: The northern portion of the beach is fenced off by developers. Access to the southern portion of the beach is still allowed through a guarded checkpoint. There is controversy over access and the status of the existing village. Villagers are protesting the access issue, have filed a complaint with the state, and the the city prez (Rudolfo Davis) has been summoned to La Paz to explain the situation to the legislature, sometime next week.

North of Ligui: I hear from a Nomad that a gate has been built across an access road, but it is still open.

Puerto Escondido: The pier's been closed for a while now. Today a Mexican neighbor who fishes there every Sunday says that a new fence and padlocked gate have closed off the free parking area, and all access to the concrete for fishing is closed off. Access is now only allowed to the pay parking area and boat ramp. He says the API (that's the new port authority in town) official says there are several small cruise ship visits this winter, and the local fishermen make too much mess that will offend the visitors. If all this is true, it is unfortunate for the local shore fishermen. Loreto is not belssed with great shore fishing and these were popular spots. Anyone been there in the last few days? I'll try and get there when I can and check it out.

Heading north, to Playa Notri: This rocky stretch of beach has been posted closed for most of the year. Now berms are reported across access roads.

Playa Salanita, just south of Loreto, by the airport: Open, but the road was blitzed by the hurricane.

San Bruno (25 km north) I haven't been up there to check it out this fall, but developers from Spain have plans for the area and I have heard reports that the beach is closed off.

Bob H - 11-30-2006 at 06:32 PM

Baja is rapidly changing and development will continue to charge ahead. This is only the very beginning I'm afraid. We ain't seen noth'n yet!
Bob H

[Edited on 12-1-2006 by Bob H]

Bob and jane - 12-1-2006 at 08:19 AM

Thanks for posting the info, Don. I was avoiding it, I guess, because I didn't want to get myself all wound up again. Since I'm the nomad that told him about the Notri closings, I will say that berms were built across the roads that accessed the rocky beach there. It is purely to keep people off the beaches. I was mystified why some rancher (it's marked "Rancho Notri, propiedad privada, prohibido entrar") would deny access to his land. Everywhere I have traveled in Mexico over the last 30 years the Mexican people have been welcoming, sharing people. No trespassing signs were extremely rare. I asked a city official. Turns out "Rancho Notri" is Loreto Bay. And most of the rest of the beaches all the way to Ligui belong to Loreto Bay, according to the official I talked to. I see barbed wire fences and gates going up on every road to the beach along that stretch--though Juncalito and Rattlesnake remain open for now. It's the old "I own it and now I don't want anyone stepping on my land" attitude. The official said the city had been afraid that was going to happen but he was surprised it had happened so soon. They can't do that, he said. And he would be talking to the mayor. My hopes are small. Most of these beaches are rocky--not real tourist friendly, but one could launch a kayak, take a swim or a snorkel, fish from shore (and not catch much) or just pull up a rock and watch the sea. "Rancho Notri" has also blocked access to the west side of the highway and a great canyon leading into the sierra gigantes. I don't understand it. It's greedy, egotistical, and mean. There I go, getting myself wound up again.

capn.sharky - 12-1-2006 at 08:22 AM

Playa Ensenada Blanca was visited by Profeppa a month ago and told they had to leave the beach open. Profeppa forced them to put in the gate and leave it open for all to us. A fine was issued. The others mentioned, I don't know about. All beaches in Mexico have to be left open for the Mexican public to use. Of course, who wants to have to fight with a guard to get on the beach.

djh - 12-1-2006 at 08:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and jane
I was mystified why some rancher (it's marked "Rancho Notri, propiedad privada, prohibido entrar") would deny access to his land. . . I asked a city official. Turns out "Rancho Notri" is Loreto Bay. And most of the rest of the beaches all the way to Ligui belong to Loreto Bay, according to the official I talked to. . . It's greedy, egotistical, and mean. . . .


B&J... Hope you don't mind, I removed a few sentences from your quote . . . I think you've hit the nail on the head !

djh

I hate to say I told you so.

Sharksbaja - 12-1-2006 at 12:43 PM

But I told you so, Over two years ago it was obvious to me when Butterfield mentioned options to purchase adjacent land. I figure they will get pressured into selling some of their beach holdings.

And just like I predicted, the cancer will spread from it's metastasized beginning.
Funny how "public access" takes backseat to big bucks.

Funny how some people think these guys give a crap about the residents. Oh, that's right, they are building a hospital.:wow:

Capt. George - 12-1-2006 at 05:00 PM

New York to Rhode Island to Cape Cod to North Carolina to the Florida Keys to Central Florida Lakes, close, close, close, no access, no access, no access....

Baja and Alaska, how long will they be safe?

The fools and their money are moving in with many more to come..

"you ain't seen nothin yet" is the tip of the iceberg.......


lo siento gp

Rancho Notri

Marla Daily - 12-1-2006 at 08:45 PM

Rancho Notri has been owned by the Ortega family for over half a century.
Enrique and Doris Ortega bought the property in the 1950s, and today it continues to be owned by their four children—not Loreto Bay.

Bob and jane - 12-1-2006 at 08:49 PM

Marla, I am glad to hear that. I guess the official I talked to had incorrect information. Could you tell us why they have blocked access to the beach and the canyon?

Bob and jane - 12-2-2006 at 08:31 PM

Marla Daily,
I would really like to hear from you here. I just talked to a friend here in Loreto--he was born and raised here---and he said that the original owner died and that his wife and son were not interested in the property. They apparently live in Mexico City. Taxes were owed on the property. Our friend understood that family members walked away from the property. He did not know what the current status is, but it sounds to us as if Loreto Bay or Fonatur could easily have stepped into the void. Can you fill us in on the actual status of the property. And if the Ortegas still own it all, why they closed off access. I am anxious to get your insights.

capn.sharky - 12-2-2006 at 10:29 PM

"Oh, that's right, they are building a hospital.:wow:" Another falsehood they are spreading. They donated $14,000 or $18,000 USD towards the building of the hospital. If I could spread as much crap around as Loreto Bay does, I could turn all of Baja green. The general feeling is that they will collect all these deposits, and one day disappear with the money. Boy, that would really be something.........Its been done before in Baja.

Capt. George - 12-3-2006 at 06:58 AM

capn.sharky

how are you? doing any fishing?

me & Deborah in florida wondering why? gotta divest and move home to Baja, summer in AK

george

capn.sharky - 12-3-2006 at 08:58 AM

George--read your U2U, Russ

Marla Daily - 12-3-2006 at 10:06 AM

I can only repeat what I have already posted: Rancho Notri has been, and continues to be owned by the Ortega family, none of whom lives in Mexico City. I am not sure what else you would like to know or what it is, exactly, that you are questioning. Around the world, people fence their property. I find nothing unusual or nefarious about someone fencing their land, containing their livestock, etc.

Bob and jane - 12-3-2006 at 10:29 AM

Marla, thanks for answering my post. I certainly do not mean to lambast the Ortega family. I remain surprised that after centuries of owning the property they have chosen now to put berms over the access roads to the beaches at Notri. It is not a livestock issue and I had not seen any abuse of the area. It is their right to build fences, but providing access to beaches is supposed to be the law in Mexico. And I continue to be confused by the conflicting information I am getting about the ownership of the property. A government official has told me it belongs to Loreto Bay, a Loretano has told me there are liens against the property and the heirs are in Mexico City, and you tell me the Ortega family continues to own it. Perhaps all of the above are true. I guess I'll shrug my shoulders as the locals do and see where we go from here.

bancoduo - 12-3-2006 at 10:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Marla Daily
I can only repeat what I have already posted: Rancho Notri has been, and continues to be owned by the Ortega family, none of whom lives in Mexico City. I am not sure what else you would like to know or what it is, exactly, that you are questioning. Around the world, people fence their property. I find nothing unusual or nefarious about someone fencing their land, containing their livestock, etc.
Why don't you ask your friends why they fenced there land off? We would like to know.:?:

jerry - 12-3-2006 at 11:05 AM

its a sad thing but it really doesnt make any difference who owns it or has controll of the land whoever does has the right to do as they feel with thier land ??they may be public beaches but does the landowner have to give access over his property brovide roads? can he not fence creat burms?? or for that matter take all roads off his property?? its mexico im not gona make the call

jerry - 12-3-2006 at 11:07 AM

perhaps its an option or lease that the person in controll decides what he wantes to do??

Don Alley - 12-3-2006 at 11:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jerry
its a sad thing but it really doesnt make any difference who owns it or has controll of the land whoever does has the right to do as they feel with thier land ??they may be public beaches but does the landowner have to give access over his property brovide roads? can he not fence creat burms?? or for that matter take all roads off his property?? its mexico im not gona make the call


I don't know what the law is in Mexico...perhaps they have laws that restrict a landowner from closing existing, open roads that have been habitually used for access by the public? There are similar laws in some US states. I won't be making that call either, but I'd like to see someone make the call, one way or another, and I'd want them to hear from others besides developers, ranchers, and API port bureaucrats.

A year or so ago, a Loreto area developer staked out lots across an existing beach access road. Rather than shrugging it off, we posted it here, spoke to a newspaper reporter, who said he'd talk to the mayor...a meeting was held, the lots replotted, the road remained open, and there is now signed public access to the beach through the development.

Efforts to close Juncalito Beach were also opposed. Those efforts have ended, for now, and the beach remains open.

The north beach has been closed at Ensenada Blanca. Residents have filed complaints that have reportedly come to the interest of the legislature in La Paz.

And one of the things that made Baja a little different than the US, and perhaps a little better: not every landowner felt obligated to post all private land with No Trespassing signs. Sad to see that changing.

Paula - 12-3-2006 at 04:11 PM



We drove down to Notri today. I was confused by all of the seemingly conflicting information floating around about the property, and wanted to see it for myself. There are indeed berms on the beach side. One has been dug out and driven through. On the mountain side all roads have gates with this sign posted close by. The signs are here and there on the beach side also. Out of curiosity I called the California number on the sign and got an answering machine that told me I had reached Rob's home office, and to leave a message for a return call. So, Bob and Jane, perhaps all of the above really are true.
We drove on down to Puerto Escondido and saw the new gate that closes off the free parking lot that shore fishermen use. I learned in conversation with a local down there that people can park on the street outside of the gate and walk to the edge to fish. The pier is off limits, and beginning in February there will be no more shore fishing allowed. We have a neighbor who has fished there most Sundays of his fifty-some years-- guess he'll have to find a new spot.:?:

Right of access to public domain

Sharksbaja - 12-3-2006 at 04:29 PM

Has been a law for over a hundred years in CA. Now that doesn't mean that it's been followed. Many years ago I filed a lawsuit based on that law. The owners, who happened to be a famous Kennedy family lost their bid to develop the coastline when other groups followed my suit.
Today there is a golf course there (of course) and they provide public access but you would not see it cause it's back behind the clubhouse.

I hope the Mexican public wins out and continues to use the beaches etc. without interference as they have for decades.

After all, it is the livelyhood of many.
As far as roads go, that would be at the property owners discretion I would guess.

Access is one thing public roads quite another.

[Edited on 12-3-2006 by Sharksbaja]

Santiago - 12-3-2006 at 04:46 PM

Re: land ownership

OK - I'm gonna ask what I suspect is a really stupid question: "Can't you just go to the 'recorder's office', or what ever it's called, and look at the deed/title history?" Are these records public? (I think I can hear Bruce laughing).

Capt. George - 12-3-2006 at 06:19 PM

ahhhh, Baja!

will I eventually mourn its demise, as I have so many, many places in the states???

money talks, bullchit walks.....how sad, how wrong!

Capt George

comitan - 12-3-2006 at 06:23 PM

Santiago

Yes you can in La Paz, its called Catastro.

bajabeachbabe - 1-11-2007 at 06:20 PM

Does anyone know if this project is the one at Ensenada Blanca or will it be a Puerto Escondido?


http://www.thetimesharebeat.com/2006/july/0714-01t.htm

the direction we're taking

flyfishinPam - 1-11-2007 at 08:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabeachbabe
Does anyone know if this project is the one at Ensenada Blanca or will it be a Puerto Escondido?


http://www.thetimesharebeat.com/2006/july/0714-01t.htm


This is going to be in Ensenada Blanca. No, nothing has broken ground even though the fall of 2006 has come and gone. All that's been installed has been an imposing guard gate and a fencing off of the village's beach. The fence was cut by local politicians as it was literally starving the people to death in the village. The people of Ensenada Blanca have been living off the sea for generations and in short order they were cut off from it. The dispute is that the fence is located on federal land and the access road has been in existence for over 30 years. The imposing gate has done nothing more than intimidate the guests and workers of the two hotels who have been in Ensenada Blanca for years. These hotels have from the beginning provided good jobs in an enviornment that has been beneficial and dignifying for the people of the village. The Villa Group not only wants the land that the hotels are on, they also want to rid themselves of that eyesore group of shacks that is the village itself, "at all costs".

This is the direction that Loreto has taken and will follow. Its heartbreaking to see it.

I wonder what the future is of the guys at the marina who are literally fishing for food every morning. The folks who live near Puerto Escondido can no longer fish for their dinner off the pier there so it should only be a matter of time until the downtown group can no longer catch their dinner then walk home with it. I wonder where the families who are selling out are going. They can't afford to buy another piece of land within walking distance of town because its all claimed. Everything with water, on the water or with a view is going to be taken and the people will end up watering lawns and cleaning toilets. Then they'll get on a Villas Group or a Loreto Bay microbus for a 45 minute ride north to the barrios where no hay luz, y no hay agua.

The personality of Loreto is what brought us here in the first place. Small, laid back, manuoso, rustico, and rough around the edges. The authentic villages to our south will feature Armani shoestores, Ann Taylor, The Body Shop..hell it will look like a mall. Eventually, and it already is, the triteness will spill over to town and we'll lose our roosters, our anuncias, the cruisers on the malecon, the dirtbikes during race season, fishtails sticking up out of pickup trucks, it will lose the personality we've come to love.

Some future huh?

djh - 1-11-2007 at 09:04 PM

interesting to see this thread come back...

Pam....

You and many others who love Loreto will work to seek some sort of balance. I am just glad the LBC schtufffph and "All of the tourists covered with oil...." and similar obscenities and projects are OUT of town....

Loretanos may be mellow and laid back folks, but I imagine they'll also work to maintain access to their livelihood and their sense of community. I've made several friends this last year who willing to speak up for their community, the (de)evolving water situation, beach access, and other concerns.

Who was it that said ~ never doubt that a few determined individuals can change the world, for that, in fact is the only thing that ever has".... ? ? (I know I screwed that up... but the jist is there...)

Change is as inevitible as death.... (gawd, that sounds bleak, but it is true... or so I'm told).... We can seek (and speak up for) reason and the things we value and love.

Yes, by all means, cut that damned fence! That politician would get my vote... (if I could vote, that is....)

Better get down ~ before I slip off of ~ my soapbox...!!!

djh

Paula - 1-11-2007 at 09:18 PM

Pam, you tell it exactly as I see it. Loreto is not an ideal place for the high end tourist looking for white sand and balmy breezes. There is some consolation to the endless wind and chilly temperatures, and I hope they cause some seekers of the perfect life to think twice. !Que tengan mucha arena en las margaritas!
:tumble::spingrin:

edit: the lol was too mean, I wanted only to chide them gently, no matter how deep my feelings on this issue.

[Edited on 1-12-2007 by Paula]

Phil C - 1-12-2007 at 06:18 AM

I'v noticed that Loreto Bay dosn't bring thier potential clients to thier project during the "warmer" months of late summer. Haven't noticed what they do to stop the wind in the wintertime.:lol:

Skeet/Loreto - 1-12-2007 at 09:20 AM

In 1972 when Tio Don O;Niel and I bought Property on the Beach , we were requested by the Alverez Sisters to come to Mexico City to be Approved before they would agree to the Sale.
When I started building, a Party with a Lot in the Rear of Rancho Sonrisa, tried to force a 3 Meter Access across my Property to the Beach. It went to Court and the Person lost the Case_ Beach Access cannot be forced through Private Property.

A Beach Concession can be obtained for Protection of the Beach in Front of an owned Property- Vehicles can be Prohibited but Not Walking/Fishing People. The La Pinta Hotel has had such a Concession for many years.

Times are changing, laws are changing but from my visits recently, it appears that many of the old tme Mexicano People are getting tired of the Americans and Canadians coming into the Communities, using their Wealth to try to force changes in their Lifestyles--Typical Ugly Americans-.

Those people and Developers with Money and Their own Ideals for what "They Think is good for the Mexicano People" sometimes lack "Common Sense" or the Ability to see the Damage they are Doing.

Skeet/Loreto

Funny thang is

Sharksbaja - 1-13-2007 at 02:18 AM

We can see it years before it becomes reality.:(

abreojos - 1-13-2007 at 04:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and jane
Thanks for posting the info, Don. I was avoiding it, I guess, because I didn't want to get myself all wound up again. Since I'm the nomad that told him about the Notri closings, I will say that berms were built across the roads that accessed the rocky beach there. It is purely to keep people off the beaches. I was mystified why some rancher (it's marked "Rancho Notri, propiedad privada, prohibido entrar") would deny access to his land. Everywhere I have traveled in Mexico over the last 30 years the Mexican people have been welcoming, sharing people. No trespassing signs were extremely rare. I asked a city official. Turns out "Rancho Notri" is Loreto Bay. And most of the rest of the beaches all the way to Ligui belong to Loreto Bay, according to the official I talked to. I see barbed wire fences and gates going up on every road to the beach along that stretch--though Juncalito and Rattlesnake remain open for now. It's the old "I own it and now I don't want anyone stepping on my land" attitude. The official said the city had been afraid that was going to happen but he was surprised it had happened so soon. They can't do that, he said. And he would be talking to the mayor. My hopes are small. Most of these beaches are rocky--not real tourist friendly, but one could launch a kayak, take a swim or a snorkel, fish from shore (and not catch much) or just pull up a rock and watch the sea. "Rancho Notri" has also blocked access to the west side of the highway and a great canyon leading into the sierra gigantes. I don't understand it. It's greedy, egotistical, and mean. There I go, getting myself wound up again.

Unfortunatly, to protect yourself and your property it is required that you mark the boundries post it to keep other people from trying to steal it. We have the Green family camped on the property they claim is theirs. It is out near the gas station across from Cosco here in Cabo. It is the last streach of undeveloped beach. I have been advised to do so with mine also and I am sure Loreto Bay has been advised to do the same.

[Edited on 1-13-2007 by abreojos]

Skeet/Loreto - 1-13-2007 at 11:31 AM

Loreto is not Normally "Windy and Cool" as it is now! The El Nino affect is causing this Weather. Having been around Loreto since 1968, living there 17 years full time, my wife and I keeping Daily Weather records I can attest to the Fact that Loreto has Great Weather most of the Time.

For information; The large Property just North of Hotel Oasis where Tio Don Lived belongs to the Ortega Family. It still has the Oldest structure Stand as well as Tio's Trailer. Mrs. Ortega gave Tio permission to live on that Property for many years. She has turned down many offers to Develop that property as well as "Rancho Notri".Mrs. Ortegas family are very capable and Honest and will do well with their Property.

The one and only sure way to know about Liens on Property is to go to the Supreme Court Clerk in La Paz, have a Notoria do a Title Search. I had this done on each Property I bought and Sold.

It is well to remember that if you want to be successful in living in Baja Sur, that you Learn and accept the ways of the Mexican People.
It is not the States!

Skeet/Loreto

Pescador - 1-14-2007 at 04:18 PM

I as well as most of the people I talk to came to Baja originally because it was less developed than the mainland. My family used to come to the Guaymas /San Carlos area begining in the late 50's and finally sold out there due to the overdevelopment. It seems only yesterday that we camped at Escondido, South of Loreto, in really primitive conditions on the flats. Then some of the lucky people found Bahia de los Muertos which was as close to Paradise as anyplace I could imagine. So we traveled around Baja and fouond some places that were acceptable but we could see that some of them were ripe for development and we had a tendency to shy away from those places for that very reason.
We ended up at San Lucas Cove as we figured that the area of Santa Rosalia would be the very last place on the sea to develop. With the old mine falling apart and the dumps and junkyards as you enter town, we assumed that no one would have pictures of high rises and stupid housing developments. So we were feeling pretty smug until out of the clear blue some character from California shows up and tries to buy the trailer park property. When he could not get that job done, he buys a semi-developed trailer park just at the edge of the cove and now seems bound and determined to wreck this place. He doesn't seem capable of doing some small type of thing on a slow basis that would slowly alter the community and be absorbed into the existing culture and infastructure, but instead is trying to push through a big development with over 100 residences. I doubt that he has the ability to even recognize the beauty of the area and only sees it as a piece of property that might be ripe for and eventual rape.
So the looseness and lack of structure that attracted us all here must have a recognized weakness that would allow some money-hungry developer to do the damage they seem so hell bent on doing.

Cypress - 1-14-2007 at 05:10 PM

Pescador! Sorry to hear.:no:Good luck.