BajaNomad - heating systems

heating systems

bajadock - 12-29-2006 at 03:10 PM

I'm designing home to build next year. Seems like many use wood stoves for their home heating. My early investigations were met with "It never gets cold in Ensenada." If temps were only getting into low 50's at night, I would agree. But, 40's near the water is chilly, no matter how tough I think I might be. Thanks for sharing successful heating systems in cinder block construction, 2000 sq ft.

bajaguy - 12-31-2006 at 10:49 AM

Northern Tool (check on line) has several "ventless" LP gas fireplaces/stoves from 20K to 40K BTU. I am getting one for my Ensenada house, even though we have forced air heating.

Wood is an option, but is very messy with storage and handling.

Summanus - 12-31-2006 at 10:55 AM

Best of all worlds.

Wood-burning fireplace (s) for the ambiance.

Vented propane heaters in whatever rooms you want comfy heat.

Mini-split units for both heat and air-conditioning.

villadelfin - 12-31-2006 at 01:25 PM

Where does the wood come from for the wood burning fireplace?

longlegsinlapaz - 12-31-2006 at 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Summanus
Best of all worlds.

Wood-burning fireplace (s) for the ambiance.

Vented propane heaters in whatever rooms you want comfy heat.

Mini-split units for both heat and air-conditioning.

HUH????? Mini-splits for HEATING??

Obviously my research has been lacking...care to share any more info on that? Manufacturer? Suppliers in BCS? And anything else you can offer.

longlegsinlapaz - 12-31-2006 at 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by villadelfin
Where does the wood come from for the wood burning fireplace?

The "wilds" of Lomas is loaded with downed trees & dead cactus woody skeletons! Where do the restaurants who cook with mesquite get their wood supply? <<<that Q is disassociated from the first sentence!

Bob and Susan - 12-31-2006 at 07:34 PM

splits...

split.JPG - 45kB

Supplier in La Paz

Summanus - 12-31-2006 at 08:34 PM

Quote:

HUH????? Mini-splits for HEATING??

Obviously my research has been lacking...care to share any more info on that? Manufacturer? Suppliers in BCS? And anything else you can offer.

You are in luck, longlegsinlapaz. I bought my a/c - heat mini-split system in La Paz...or I ordered from there and had it delivered and installed at our casa in southern Baja Sur. As soon as I find the invoices I can tell you when, where and how much. I see the one Bob and Susan is showing costs quite a bit less. Don't know if it has the same specs as mine, though.

The installation labor was around $450, as I recall. I think a ballpark price for the set itself would be around $2800, mas o menos. It's for a 2500 sq. ft home...stand alone compressor with 4 heads and remotes.

You might search around and find a better deal on the Internet, bring it down, and find a competent installer. The current competition means dropping prices...we hope!

Dave - 1-1-2007 at 12:14 AM

There are maybe 10-15 days a year that are cold enough for heat. We use a couple of 5gl propane tanks with attached heaters bought at Costco. We use them in the evening or morning for about an hour to take the chill out of the air.

That, and a sweater is all you need, really.

Summanus - 1-1-2007 at 12:07 PM

A tienda friend in our village sells lena for 2 pesos per nice-sized stick, delivered in his Toyota pickup. He gets it from his rancho. I don't know how much the growth has kept up with demand, but this is the 20th year he has had this as a sideline and he always seems to have a ready supply.

villadelfin - 1-2-2007 at 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz

Quote:

Originally posted by villadelfin
Where does the wood come from for the wood burning fireplace?

Bajadock is in Ensenada or so it seems from the quote "It never gets cold in Ensenada." I'm not certain there are fields of fallen branches for Bajadock to gather from, as there are in Lomas and being so close to San Diego, I imagine that firewood (mesquite) would have to be hauled in at some considerable expense. Municipalities in California and Arizona are attempting to limit permits for new wood-burning fireplaces due to the contribution to air and lung pollution. I can certainly see how some might have misunderstood when I asked where the wood comes from from wood-burning fireplaces. The reality is that a wood burning fireplace, in my opinion, is something to avoid if one can help it. Restaurants in the US that burn mesquite are being pressured into installing scrubbers in the chimneys.

Lencho, I was wondering about the sustainability of mesquite as well. Superficial research indicates it is an easily sustainable crop with many side benefits. Mesquite is now being used as hardwood in flooring and other uses, and scientists are suggesting that it can be used to produce ethanol.

Ethanol source? Mesquite-No...Switchgrass-Si

Summanus - 1-2-2007 at 09:47 AM

villadelfin, lencho and everyone, I think we all care about the future of this old Baja friend, the mesquite. We can use it in many self-sustaining ways, but I have to differ about ..using mesquite for ethanol. Forgive me, I was raised in farming country. Mesquite.. for many uses, yes, but it's not good for making any serious amount of ethanol. US farmers have the world's largest corn crops which are already being utilized to our current full-capacity in the manufacturing of ethanol. Not to mention switchgrass, sugar cane, sugar beets, etc.

There are not enough ethanol refining plants in operation today to make even a small dent in the supply of corn alone. Personally, I favor the use of using 'switchgrass' in the manufacture of ethanol to help the environment and also to offset our dependancy on foreign oil.

Switchgrass would be thee best choice for ethanol production if not for the fact that, unlike corn and others, it is a non-food source...being essentially cellulose in it's biology. (And..it has no lobby in Washington!) Like mesquite, switchgrass grows in the wild...but unlike mesquite it may be harvested several times a year. It grows rapidly and does not need much water to support its growth. It has the advantage of being five times more productive in yielding ethanol from a similar quantity of corn. 75 gallons of ethanol can be processed per ton of switchgrass straw, with roughly two-thirds of the straw being converted into the fuel.

So, I seriously doubt mesquite would ever be a viable substitute for any ethanol sources. Bristlecone pine, maybe? .:rolleyes

Hope this still keeps the subject under 'heating systems?'

villadelfin - 1-2-2007 at 12:35 PM

From msnbc article
...The Texas A&M Agricultural Research and Extension Center in Lockett is working on a project dubbed the "Mesquite Alternative Fuel Project," which will study the feasibility of harvesting mesquite and turning it into cellulosic ethanol.

"The whole program is developed to try to use the mesquite that nobody wants," said Jim Ansley, professor and the rangeland ecologist who is overseeing the project.

Leaders in the renewable energy industry are casting covetous eyes on all sorts of plant matter to use in making this type of fuel. Ethanol made from corn is already used in regular gasoline like breadcrumbs in meatloaf. About 10 percent can be blended into regular gasoline, making it go farther.

Cellulosic ethanol is ethanol made out of any other kinds of plant matter than corn: rice hulls, willow, wheat straw, cotton gin trash, construction waste and more, experts said. All plant matter contains cellulose.

"You can go nuts. You could put 200 things on the list," said Arnold R. Klann, chief executive officer of California-based BlueFire Ethanol Inc.

'Ultimate sustainable resource'
But one of the top things on the list in Texas is mesquite, often a nuisance plant. And North Texas has plenty of it, Ansley said.

The plant is perfect for harvesting because of its high regrowth rate. Mesquite also tends to grow on flatter sites, which are easier to harvest, he said.

"The program is the ultimate sustainable resource," Ansley said. "It could potentially provide some economic benefit to rural areas."

The Wilbarger County extension site is currently in the "inception phase" of building and experimenting with the machinery needed to cut and collect mesquite for fuel production.

Ansley's staff cranked up both cutting machine and harvester prototypes to showcase the possible technology to attendees at a recent public event.

Rancher Macon Boddy of Henrietta said the mesquite project looks promising. "We're all looking for alternative uses for our land," he said. "If you made your brush work pay its own way (by harvesting the mesquite for fuel), that would be an incredible benefit."

52 million acres to work with
Texas has 52 million acres of mesquite trees, said Montey Sneed, a marketing executive for Pearson Bioenergy Inc. of Aberdeen, Miss., and founder of Texas Ethanol Co. Sneed, of Vernon, sees mesquite is a renewable "feedstock" to make ethanol.

Cutting a mesquite tree down agitates it, and it grows back fiercely. It's renewable at least every 10 years, and it's one of the hardest woods out there — a plus for a biofuel feedstock.

Pearson's process can turn a ton of "waste biomass" into 214 gallons of ethanol, Sneed said. The company has a proprietary method that turns biomass into gas in the first stage. In the second stage, the gas is converted to ethanol.

Several methods of converting plant matter into ethanol are out there, said Carol Werner, executive director of the Washington, D.C.-based Environmental and Energy Study Institute.

Technologies can involve introducing enzymes, fermenting the plant matter or heating it up to high temperatures to break it down, Werner said.

The biofuel, itself, is something like your great-granddaddy's moonshine. "It's like 200 proof in terms of that, which is why, in order for ethanol to be sold, it has to actually be contaminated," Werner said.

No one has built cellulosic ethanol refineries in the United States yet, although the technology is in use in places like Japan.

Summanus - 1-2-2007 at 01:13 PM

That article reads well, villadelfin, but mesquite still does not have rapid enough regrowth rates or easy harvesting for massive and cheap production of ethanol. The scrub land in Texas could well cash in on any such use for the tenacious mesquite, but it will never compare to lush row crops on flat land in our prime farm belts.

At this point in time, cellulose method ethanol is too costly to persue, as is ethenol derived from large city landfills or MSW, municipal solid waste. New York and New Jersey have experiments underway, but I do not think production is in place.

Besides, I tend to distrust most prime-time news organizations like NBC...too one-sided politically.

Nice lively discussion. Kudos.

[Edited on 1-2-2007 by Summanus]

Cypress - 1-2-2007 at 01:22 PM

Nothing beats a wood burning heater in a well-insulated house, as long as firewood is cheap and plentiful.

Deserts aren't known for their timber producing abilities.

How many sawmills do you see in the desert? :?:

Cypress...got wood?

Summanus - 1-2-2007 at 01:35 PM

I always like mesquite firewood for it's heat and aroma.

We are fortunate in having an endless supply of firewood, too. We stock up firewood to last a season or two.

Before it gets too cold to cut and stack!

- my frozen trout hole.jpg - 50kB

Cypress - 1-2-2007 at 03:25 PM

Got plenty!!

bajadock - 1-30-2007 at 09:45 PM

Thanks all. Had to go to states for family most of January. Still researching internet and chatting on this topic.

Now, the local Ensenada veterans are admitting this is coldest winter that they can remember.

Wood isn't plentiful here. Amazed how few use solar for electricity or hot water in Baja.

Though my lot is north facing and down sloping, I'm still creating as much of a passive solar house plan as possible and back that up with efficient gas fireplace. More expertise welcome, thanks.

DOC

bajaguy - 1-30-2007 at 09:55 PM

check your u2u

BajaWarrior - 1-30-2007 at 10:29 PM

Plenty of Oak just 15 minutes east and south of Ensenada.

As far as my desert region in below San Felipe there is an endless amount of Ironwood from fallen trees in river beds and better yet, the stumps and their roots. Nothing burns longer than Ironwood.

It is work hauling in firewood to burn but well worth it. It's not that long of a cold season.

I just bought two identical wood burning stoves from Farrels in El Cajon (San Diego County) for our home we are presently building priced under $3000 from the stove all the way to the chimeny cap.

vgabndo - 1-30-2007 at 10:56 PM

BajaDock...

If you are still designing you might consider hydronics in your slab. It has the advantage of allowing for an insulated storage tank to be chilled by running your coolant through the collectors through the cool of the summer night. During the day your floor is cooled by the same flow that would warm you on those rare periods when you need heat.

No fuel, no smoke, and VERY little electricity. It is also a very low tech installation.

You could also use geothermal cooling by burying your PEX tubing about six feet deep in collector trenches, and keeping your slabs at ~60 degrees.

I'm designing this system into my new place in Northern California, but I was fortunate to recycle a bunch of 4 x 10 water heating collectors at 50 cents a sq. ft. from a motel swimming pool.

The good thing about using wood for heat is...

Mexray - 1-30-2007 at 10:59 PM

...that it 'warms' you when you work to gather/cut it...it warms you as you load it in the truck...it warms you as you stack it on the porch...and it warms you all over when you burn it!

There's even some residual 'warmth' as you haul the ashes away to toss away in the back yard!

As you can see, you don't get quite as many 'BTU's' if you just buy it from a vendor.... :yes:

Cypress - 1-31-2007 at 08:02 AM

Have hydronic heating, the water is heated by propane. Works fine. Also have a wood heater that really gets things toasty. No need for a cooling system here in north Idaho.