BajaNomad - Legalizing Addictive drugs--THE ANSWER

Legalizing Addictive drugs--THE ANSWER

Baja Bernie - 1-5-2007 at 07:03 PM

This is a response to the add ons that appeared on the post by BajaNomad--"Bad, bad news from amigo BajaCactus" (a very old post so don't get excited as I did when it was revived)

Please see the below links for the final answers to this burning question.

http://www.break.com/index/effect_of_drugs_and_alcohol_on_sp...

P.S. Did you know that up until about WWI anyone could walk into any drug store in the US and purchase all of the known narcotic drugs of the time.............Heron, Opium, and others without a prescription...........Oh! yeah. Coke had the real thing in those days..............Wonder what behaviors caused the government to make all of these substances illegal.

Could it have anything to do with the behavior of some-----including Sigmund Freud who just knew that his snorting cocaine made him a better scientist and researcher----see the "Rise and Fall of Sigmund Freud" before you buy into any of his ideas-----------oh! is this information about Freud to late for some? :lol:

grover

Baja Bernie - 1-5-2007 at 08:22 PM

After affects sounds like a good round of sex to me. Hope the wife would think the same or similarly at least.

Free lunch questions

Dave - 1-5-2007 at 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by grover
a Much stronger argument is made for legalization by illustrating the benefits to the rest of society of removing the profit motive of the traffickers.

If traffickers were no longer making a profit would drugs then be free to all?

Would addicts be able to walk in to a pharmacy and get as much as they want, when ever they wanted?

And if they had to pay would they all get jobs to support their habit?

Don Alley - 1-5-2007 at 11:27 PM

As far as I am concerned they can legalize drugs. The "war on drugs" has been a failure; we've gone from hippies smuggling a couple of keys to murderous para-military narco armies. Meanwhile we wait in line for hours at the border as if it really makes any difference. The best enforcement can do is to keep prices high, so the addicts have to steal more of our stuff to pay for their habits.

However, legalizing drugs could have other consequences. For example, consider those who profit from the manufacture and sale of illegal drugs. Take away their profits by legalizing, what will they do next? Get jobs?

abreojos - 1-6-2007 at 12:04 AM

Great point. These people will continue being a problem. They are as bad as terrorist and the only way to deal with them is the way we deal with terrorist. Seal the border as tight as a gnat's ars and those who dare be on this side beware. It's going to get ugly.

Capt. George - 1-6-2007 at 05:28 AM

they'd probably go to work for our "legal" thieving drug manufacturers. More money in it!

Make it legal, remember prohibition.. those that can't get off it, give em more and more and more till they overdose...It would be a blessing to our society to get rid of crack heads and their like.

Capt. George - 1-6-2007 at 08:51 AM

you know you can count me in...personnaly I'd rather cremate them, alive.

unfortuneately as long as the market is there, the product will follow. Supply and demand.

oldhippie - 1-6-2007 at 09:07 AM

If an old hippie can chime in here by quoting someone else on the Prohibition law:

"The prestige of government has undoubtably been lowered considerably by the Prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of the respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this." Albert Einstein, 1921

I often liken what's happening in Tijuana and other Mexican cities to what happened in Chicago and other US cities during Prohibition, which is what Einstein was addressing.

But, I don't know about legalization of drugs. I've been told some are much more addictive and dangerous than alcohol.

If only the war on drugs would stop. That's what I want. War means violence and it's the violence that's the real problem. Neither drugs nor their market will ever go away. Both the police and the dealers need to tone it way down and take violence out of the equation.

Peace and tranquilizers, oops, I mean tranquility.

Old hippie.

Capt. George - 1-6-2007 at 09:17 AM

war on drugs is nothing more then a boondoggle of taxpayers money. Laughable if it were not so pathetic. Would not mind the violence if it just affected the users and pushers, unfortuneately it affects all of us.

it would cost less, in (decent) lives & money to give away drugs to users....give them ALL they want and then some. take away the need to rob and pillage.....leave that to the pirates...(man I wish I had been a pirate!)

White Beard

Summanus

Baja Bernie - 1-6-2007 at 12:06 PM

A real 'hot' fix would be most appropiate for anyone who makes a profit from illegal drugs. The death from a hot load is not pleasant to view.

Moderation, the key?

Sharksbaja - 1-6-2007 at 12:28 PM

As the casual (adult)alcoholic enjoys the fruits of his labor, a bottle of blackberry brandy he just made, so does the ol' pothead who just rolled his homegrown joint. Both will succomb to a buzz which they can enjoy in the comfort, privacy and security of their home.

If they plan on being intoxicated in public they should plan on problems.

I have no problem with the first scenario. But people have different threshholds. A 90 lb gal certainly could not imbibe like a 300 lb Englishman.

I am certain though that many drugs could not be managed through moderation. Like crack, crank, coke or...... alcohol. :lol:

Baja Bernie - 1-6-2007 at 12:49 PM

This may sound a bit nuts, or like I just hit on a bong, but I think that the drug war was/are exactly that and that it was/is aimed at the Western Nations much like the British used it against the Court of China. Most of these Opium Barons became respected members of the upper class of England (a tad like the Kennedy clan as it relates to prohibition of alcohol in the United States) http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CHING/OPIUM.HTM

Many of us seem to forget that beer and wine were considered a food and additionally got a great start because the water in many areas was of such purity that it could/did kill the folks who were crazy enough to drink it. (Interesting the number of times China attempted to prohibit it, to no avail. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_alcohol

I believe that as long as the precursors to the manufacturing of most all drugs is controlled by the leading families of the world and they make tremendous profits from same then drugs will never be legalized nor taxed.

My bottom line is I do not wish to see America turned into a China of the Boxer/Opium Wars where they were defeated, in large measure, because of the addiction involving so many of it’s citizens.

Think about it………….You can find a whole bunch of ‘old’ alcoholics who continue to drink.

But you find very few old dopers that continue to use hard drugs.

Just look to Hollywood and see the number of deaths involving most talented folks who were taken away in their prime. Look at heart attacks in folks in their late 30’s and 40’s and then start looking for drug abuse and you might be amazed………………….and we only find out about a few of these cases.

Okay! I just blew up my soap box!

Capt. George - 1-6-2007 at 01:08 PM

Hot Load, I've had my share of those, boy they're great!

Am I on a different wavelength??? Been told I was froma different planet by some confused folk..Oh well

Capt. George - 1-6-2007 at 01:32 PM

whoever the incumbant is, vote his useless ass out!

Capt. George - 1-6-2007 at 01:36 PM

wait a minute I didn't realize all our politicos got thier ideas and views from thier burros...

never seen any large stables in and taround the famed halls of Congress.

Am I missing something here? Oh yeah, forgot, can't say heinie...

what a demented society we live in...hot loads, drugs, stuffing people in ovens, shooting them etc., etc. but don't say heimie????????

I need a St. Paulie Girl!

BajaBruno - 1-6-2007 at 11:52 PM

The best book I've read in favor of legalization is "Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do," McWilliams, Peter. Prelude Press, 1993. I'd like it better if it had footnotes. I've not read a very convincing one opposed to legalization.

A chief deputy district attorney friend of mine once noted that after all the years and billions of dollars and dead cops spent on our alleged "war on drugs," damn near any drug imaginable was available for the asking in almost any bar all across the country. He advocated legalizing all drugs without limit. My immediate reaction was horror, but after a few days, and then a few year's reflection I came to agree with him. This was the same guy who each Friday night played poker (which is illegal in California, of course) with the county sheriff, a couple of defense attorneys, and a deputy chief of police. We will never be successful trying to legislate vice, no matter the penalties.

I suppose most of you know (just as Baja Bernie pointed out about the US early last century) that nearly any drug is available from any Mexican pharmacy on demand. Just say you want it and they will provide it. That's the case in every Latin American country I have visited and probably many more countries all over the world. I've never heard of a prescription "drug problem" in any of those countries. Well, maybe a "problem" of cancer victims trying to bring reasonably priced foreign drugs back home to the US, but not many problems with the people in the country of origin. Is that because US citizens have a lower resistance to drugs? Are we more dissolute?

I don't think so. I think it stems from the basic quality of independence that is ingrained in Americans. We simply don't like the government telling us how to run our lives. It is the same quality that made alcohol use go from its lowest historic levels prior to Prohibition to its highest historic use DURING Prohibition. Alcohol use in the US actually FELL after Prohibition, but has never fallen to pre-Prohibition levels. We'll play poker in our homes if we please and we'll smoke dope if we please, laws or no laws.

Someone always replies, "Well, it's OK if you can handle it, or if you do it in your own home, but what about people who can't handle it, or people who drive on opium?" It's been my experience that heroin and cocaine users are perfectly normal people when they have their drug---they can function perfectly well in society. It is when they don't have their drug that they can become violent and shoot at my friends. I find the same situation with people who are mentally ill simply because of a twist of fate and genes. When they take their drugs, they are fine; when they don't, they can be violent.

I think drug users should be dealt with just like alcohol users: if you commit an offense against another person or their property under the influence of your drug, society will punish that offense, not the drug use. The drug use is your personal business, not society's.

fishbuck - 1-7-2007 at 01:26 AM

I've been watching this post with some interest.
I am a former pothead and beerhound.
I started smoking pot at about 13 and drinking beer at about 14. I'm now 47 and been completely clean for about 2.5 years. That's a long time to use chemical substances even if they are fairly mild ones.
I came to the end of my 30 year fratboy existance shortly after I returned from a extended trip to Baja. On that trip I drank and smoked as much as I wanted.
One day after I got home I decided that I just didn't want to live like that anymore. Fortunantely, I have never had any real problems with either substance. I mean healthwise or legal. But I did see a lot of expat americans in Baja who were slowly drinking themselves to death and that's a bit disturbing.And it's ugly. Also, where I live in Newport Beach, Ca. I see the same thing.
I decided that it's stupid to put poison in your body. I wish I would have made that decision sooner.
What's my point? Well, I think that freewill is my point. If you want to poison yourself go ahead. But don't break the law (not drug laws), infringe on others rights or expect society to bear the cost of your decision. That includes tobbaco also. I hate cigarette smokers.
Both my uncle and my father died from a combination of lung cancer and alcoholism. That was stupid and unnecessary. Oh ya my grandfather also. My most important male role models thought it was ok to poison themselves with these chemicals.
It took me a while to undo that influence and realise it's not ok to poison yourself with chemicals. I made a freewill decision to not use chemical substances.
Why would anyone want to do that to themselves?
I've never been happier or healther. I recommend that peeple don't use these things and don't be influenced buy the marketing or friends and family members.
If you love yourself then take care of yourself by eating and drinking the purist healtiest things you can get. Alcohol, tobbaco, other chemical sustances (drugs) aren't necessary to sustane you and can only harm you.
It's your choice!

I'm not sure that I disagree with Soulpatch

Baja Bernie - 1-7-2007 at 10:46 AM

BUT!

The thing about taxes caused me to think about a book on FDR that I was reading last night......................."The Anti Saloon League was bitter. It carped that liquor was being brought back merely to tax and that before we were done we would REVIVE narcotics, lotteries and the fast houses to solve the deficit."......................Funny, how the world moves we tax liquor and have made the lotteries a vehicle to tax those least able to pay. Now many are calling for narcotics to be legalized so that it can be taxed.................Only thing left is the hoar houses. :lol:

FARASHA - 1-7-2007 at 10:52 AM

They (cathouses) pay taxes HERE Bernie! Just a matter of time!

Barry A. - 1-7-2007 at 12:10 PM

As a cop for over 30 years (now 11 years retired), and very involved in the "war on drugs", I find myself surprisingly being drawn to the camp of Bajabruno and fishbuck.

Our existing policies are only marginally working. Lets try something else, and legalizing may be the answer.

Barry

(part of the reason that many in the law enforcement community oppose legalization is that we REALLY enjoyed the "war", and the inherent excitement and overtime it provided, I am thinking-----blasphemy)

Skeet/Loreto - 1-7-2007 at 01:44 PM

FishBuck says it all in his Post; God Bless you and all that your Words may reach-Causing them to Stop!!

We all must practice and Teach our Children to "Control their Desires and Keep Their Passions within Due Bounds""

Skeet

DENNIS - 1-7-2007 at 01:53 PM

Now fishbuck -----
Do you really hate cigarette smokers?

Capt. George - 1-7-2007 at 02:21 PM

puff, puff......love me, love me!!

grover

Baja Bernie - 1-7-2007 at 04:24 PM

Do they sell spider traps (first post) or foggers or somethin'.....those guys are bad dudes w hen loaded.

fishbuck - 1-7-2007 at 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Now fishbuck -----
Do you really hate cigarette smokers?

Ha ha, no I don't hate them. Just their second hand smoke and cigarette trash.
I love the sinner but hate the sin. And I do feel a little sorry for those nicotine addicts. They're headed for a slow painful death. I know, I watched my father go through it. And all the chemo and radiation treatments are expensive and don't help much.
The only cure for cancer is not to get it.

Farasha

Baja Bernie - 1-7-2007 at 06:56 PM

Your comment about prostitution being taxes over there led me to start digging because I have a very limited knowledge of taxes ourside of the United States and Baja.

What are Solidarity taxes and Church taxes in Europe???

[Edited on 1-8-2007 by Baja Bernie]

Dave - 1-7-2007 at 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by grover

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave...If traffickers were no longer making a profit would drugs then be free to all?

Would addicts be able to walk in to a pharmacy and get as much as they want, when ever they wanted?

And if they had to pay would they all get jobs to support their habit?

I think those are all excellent questions.

Of course dope shouldn't be free; think of all the lost tax revenue from official dispensaries.

All the ill effects of addiction would still be present, with the exceptions of vast expenditures on law enforcement, and widespread violence.

So, more people addicted to drugs wouldn't mean more theft/violence by more addicts to get more money to buy more drugs legally?

Don Alley - 1-7-2007 at 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
So, more people addicted to drugs wouldn't mean more theft/violence by more addicts to get more money to buy more drugs legally?

No, see, in a legalized market, cocaine or heroin would fall to its intrinsic value as a simple plant product. Users could purchase heroin in, say, 5lb bags, like sugar, at a similar price to sugar. So stealing just one car stereo could get them enough smack to stay hyped up for a long, long time, with a net reduction in crime. And if they try to use too much of their cheap stuff to fast, they will never steal again.

Will there be more addicts? Maybe a few, but hey, are YOU going to start using crack if it becomes legal?

Now there are still a few wrinkles to work out. For the worst addicts, we'll need to find free rent and free food so they don't break into our homes and steal our new HDTVs to pay the rent.

And of course, for those who make a living selling the stuff, hmmm. A job training program?

No perfect solution, but I still favor legalizing. Let people make their own decisions.

Capt. George - 1-8-2007 at 02:55 AM

For the worst addicts, a hot load.

For the dealers...we create jails to be used as "parts departments". Some decent person needs a kidney....send down # 248640 Throw in anyone convicted of two violent crimes also...

need an eye for a blind kid, send down # 2753901

oh it vould be goot. I vas only following orders!

Herr George

FARASHA - 1-8-2007 at 03:22 AM

BERNIE - every country within Europe has different Taxregulations.Can speak only for my country -AUSTRIA. IF you are employed, taxes and other fees (insurance etc.) are MONTHLY deducted, directly from the salary.
Selfemployed people pay once a year (retrospective).
Will U2U details asap.

The Sculpin - 1-8-2007 at 11:09 AM

While I am in favor of "legalizing" drugs, it will never happen becuase it is too good a source of cash for shadowy government agencies. Can't get something on your budget approved, or rather don't want the scrutiny on a "special project"? That's fine....just move a few tons of afghani tar from one country to another in trade for some nice firepower that you can in turn give to these rebels...no, freedom fighters so they can kick butt on these insurgents. Not bad for a days work.

As a side, the CIA was pumping so many $100 bills into Kurdistan before Gulf War II that the cheapest anything cost over there was $100!! The chiefs then asked if the CIA could bring in $20's, but the operatives said no...they wold have to more than quadruple the amount of people trekking over the mountains in order to carry in the extra cash!!! Talk about unforseen logistics.

Summanus

Baja Bernie - 1-8-2007 at 11:30 AM

Anybody want to talk about the 'drug' to treat drug addicts?

I used to watch my heroin addicts walk into the Methadone Clinic at 13th and Market to get their moring cup of methadone 'so they would not have withdrawels from the "BAD STUFF." Just a little paper cup, like slugging down a shot of tequila, and off they went.......................to steal so they could score the real stuff.

Most interesting this drug stuff.........many sided and the comment that I agree with most is, 'I DON'T WANT BIG GOVERNMENT TELLING ME WHAT TO DO.

I would suggest a fool proof that worked for the Native Indians everytime they tried it..............banishment!

One link to methadone http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/met... there are many.

One of the problems in this area is that those who really understand and know what they are talking about are seldom really listened to because guys like me question their motives after reading about many leading intellectuals abusing the stuff themselves..............Freud is one Leaky or is it Leary is another.........there are many...................

This is a sorta fun activity.............we sure as heck are not going to solve the problem and the mantra of legalizing the stuff sure ain't an intellectual approach. Sorry if that offends but there are just far too many mantra's out there.

Capt. George - 1-8-2007 at 05:23 PM

rebuttal??? I ain't gonna live that long...gp

Summanus

Baja Bernie - 1-8-2007 at 06:14 PM

"I am following one particular stream.. 'the harm that can come to people from legaizing addictive drugs'..."

Spoken like a Thunder God.

That is so to the point that it really hurts...............A long time ago I had a 16 year son who I was so proud of that the smile on my face actually hurt.

He got messed up with marijuana and the courts answer, and mine, to that was that he enlist in the Army. Graduated at the top of his class in Air Missle School.........So proud............came home and got involved with his drug friends again....................went AWOL and the hurt really began. I won't go into it all but it painted his straight sisters as losers in school........................stole from us..............and then ripped off the Hell's Angels for a load of speed................Have not seen him since because he is afraid to come back to California. Calls every once in a while to scratch off the scabs.

Oh! Yeah! Those big dudes who ride choppers came by the house, once, asking for Bernie. I said that was me and they said no...........a younger kid.........I excused myself and grabbed my combat masterpiece and invited them to leave with the comment, as I flashed my badge, that I had about a thousand friends who could make life miserable for them.

Like good businessmen they left and have never been back.

Now, All you Nomads know my real bias in this matter.

I KNOW of others on this board who have very similar hurts and who remain silent. I totally understand their desire not to be hurt any further......................but come on that is what allows the BS to continue.

[Edited on 1-9-2007 by Baja Bernie]

fishbuck - 1-9-2007 at 03:20 AM

Wow, Bernie! That's a mind blower of a story.
I was that 16 year old kid once. I had a dad who was a cop and a private jet pilot. A real flat top hair cut red neck. Even had a harley full dresser. I say red neck but really he was a real red blooded american type.
I was a mess by then and any dreams of college were fading fast. Funny because I had been a youth football athlete with dreams of going to the Air Force Academy. But at the rate I was going it would be a miracle if I finished high school.
Smoking pot, drinking beer riding around in cars skipping school.
How'd it happen?
We moved a lot when I was a kid and I was always the new kid, the outsider. So one day I met this group of kids and they didn't reject me. They were also the outcasts. So instead of being in with the in crowd I was suddenly out with the out crowd. And the out crowd had something that I had been very curious about for a long time... pot!
Before meeting them I had tried to get pot. Once I was given chewing tobbaco and was told it was hash. I was told to eat it and I would get high. I got high alright and then very sick. Another time I was given cat nip that I paid $5 for. When I showed it off on the school bus the kids who knew what pot really was started laughing at me. I took it back to school and sold it to another kid for $5 and of course I got caught by the school. Since it wasn't real pot the couldn't do anything. But they were such a-holes about it. It was kind of the beginning of my resentment for authority.
So the out crowd had the real thing and I "got high" for the first time.
I laughed so hard the I fell to the ground. It seemed like the thing I had been waiting for. I had friends and we had pot and now I was part of the counterculture. I was a hippie. I was 13 and it was 1973.
I didn't need the straight world or any of their rules or authority.
That went on all the way through high school and it was a miracle but I did graduate.
I drifted for a couple of years after. I slowly began to realise that I had blown it big time. The outcasts were losers for the most part and all of our rebellion and self distuctive behavior was getting us no where and fast. A few died very young.
I had taken the military placement test in school and had done well. So at a time when not many people were going in the military I dusted of my Air Force dream and enlisted. All I had to do was stay clean long enough to pass the drug screen and I was in.
It wasn't the Academy but I was back on the right track. 6 years later it was a miracle that I got my honorable discharge. The ironic thing is that some people in the military use drug. You can't get away from drugs. You just get real good at hiding your use.
All kids in this world are going to be exposed to drugs. The day will come and they are going to have to make a decision. Are they going to be curious like I was? What will they do?
I have a son. He is 12. He knows about pot. He's seen me and his mom smoke it. He has a 15 year old cousin that smokes it.
One of the biggest reasons I quit is him. Not the only reason but a very important reason.
One of these days one of his little buddies is going to offer him some pot. When that day comes I hope he thinks about me and how I quit. I quit because pot is bad for you. I've told him so. So I hope he makes the right decision. But it will be his decision to make. The same with alcohol and tabbaco.
Legal or illegal? Does it really matter? It's really about choices and decisions insn't it?

[Edited on 1-9-2007 by fishbuck]

Capt. George - 1-9-2007 at 05:28 AM

Legal or not, do you think if your prone to that crap, you're gonna go that way anyhow?

I simply think the legalization will lessen the crime rate.

I smoked grass (inhaled it too) and that was in my early twenties (Nam), it did not lead me to the further use of harder drugs...Put it behind me and that was that...

Bernie, I worked along side cops my whole career in the FDNY, South Bronx, feel real bad for you about your son.........george

Cypress - 1-9-2007 at 09:55 AM

Guess it all boils down to personal choices, genetics, good support systems, and a lot of luck. But that's life.

Phil S - 1-9-2007 at 10:46 AM

Sometimes there are "good endings" to these stories. My son because of a divorce & "went to live with his mother". She was bad influence. Spending summers & spring break & Christmas with "dad" didn't keep him from "the influence". When you have a "user" in the family, it's kind of accepted it's o.k. Otherwise, why would they be doing it????? From about 16 years of age on until he turned about 24, I didn't have a 'normal' experience with my son like so many 'lucky' parents did. But he's clean, married, graduated from a community college with a degree in Digital Computer Technology. Making $60K a year & advancing in his job. Success story. We became involved in the 'local' support group during his 'problem times' Kicked out of Adapt three times. 30 day lock up ($10,000.00) 45 days later because he went back to his "friends" got dirty again. Hey folks. There is one heck of an industry out there because of drugs. Start with the money the dealers collect. Then add the police force to enforce the laws. Then add the attornies who defend. Don't forget the prosecutors who are doing their job. Plus Parole Officers. Then the court secretaries.
Judges. Then all the 'recovery' people. Like Adapt & others. Half way houses. I don't think I've touched the tip of the iceberg here as far as how far a "toke" goes. Oh yes. Also the DARE program. O.K. Count the dollars of taxpayer money that is spent here for salary & overhead. Legalize drugs??? You've got to be kidding me?????? You must believe there is a santa claus also. And good tooth fairy, too. And the worse part is, I haven't a clue what the answer is. But I do know that someone needs to step to the plate & invent one. So far nothing has worked. Would it be that stay at home mom's might help? Go back two generations & instill the moral & fundementals of christian fellowship?? What's happening here?
Go to a junior high school sometime and just be an observer of the dress codes being allowed. And hair styles from Mad Maxx!!! Eye shadow & mascara on grade school girls, and provocative dressing. We are a society gone mad with our values & moral decline. Sin & booze shall destroy our earth. Oh yes. And I guess now days we need to add 'drugs' to that one.

CaboRon - 6-5-2007 at 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley
As far as I am concerned they can legalize drugs. The "war on drugs" has been a failure; we've gone from hippies smuggling a couple of keys to murderous para-military narco armies. Meanwhile we wait in line for hours at the border as if it really makes any difference. The best enforcement can do is to keep prices high, so the addicts have to steal more of our stuff to pay for their habits.

However, legalizing drugs could have other consequences. For example, consider those who profit from the manufacture and sale of illegal drugs. Take away their profits by legalizing, what will they do next? Get jobs?

The way to put a stop to the drug czars is to remove the profit from their illegal operations. Let the gov. sell it and tax it, much like booze is handled in Canada. As to the impact on society I believe booze has had a greater negative impact than all of the so called "illigal" drugs combined...... :cool:

CaboRon

CaboRon - 6-5-2007 at 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baja Bernie
BUT!

..........Only thing left is the hoar houses. :lol:

Let's legalize those too .............CaboRon :yes:

Iflyfish - 6-5-2007 at 01:57 PM

Having worked in both Corrections and Mental Health it is gratifying for me to again here clear discussion of this issue. The USofA was on the verge of legalizing the use of Marijuana till Nixon and Agnew got together and decided that the best way to get re elected was to mobilize the "silent majority" and marginalize the "hippies" by demonizing their drug of choice.

Thus started the multi billion dollar boondoggle called "The War on Drugs". It appears that the USofA likes a good war. There is ample profit in it for those involved in promoting it, see the bottom line for Haliburton, Kellog Root and Brown, Becktel to name a few.

We all pay for this folly. We all need to assess in our own lives what role alcohol and other drugs are going to play. Are we going to worship at that alter each day or spend what time we have in other pursuits.

Iflyfish

CaboRon - 6-5-2007 at 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish

Thus started the multi billion dollar boondoggle called "The War on Drugs". It appears that the USofA likes a good war. There is ample profit in it for those involved in promoting it, s

Iflyfish

Wars do NOT solve problems... they only promote more violence ............ And we all know that the billions of dollars spent on this foolish enterprise is not the solution to the "problem" ..... This only enriches the drug cartels and the police cartels ! CaboRon

jerry - 6-5-2007 at 02:09 PM

what you been smoking?? :yes:

CaboRon - 6-5-2007 at 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phil S
So far nothing has worked. Would it be that stay at home mom's might help?

Ah, now you are getting close to something here..... Families and their support.... Quite frankly too many role models are out "making a living" instead of spending time with their kids. And , dads your sons need you as a role model, it you don't spend time with your kids.... OTHERS WILL . CaboRon

Cypress - 6-5-2007 at 04:17 PM

grover, Saw the same commercial and agree with you 100%.

Pot puts folks in a holding pattern, and the circle gets smaller and smaller. :yes:

Just have to throw this in....

Lee - 6-5-2007 at 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
grover, Saw the same commercial and agree with you 100%.

Pot puts folks in a holding pattern, and the circle gets smaller and smaller. :yes:

It's not pot, it's the abuse of pot.

And, no, pot doesn't lead to hard drugs.

:cool:

CaboRon - 6-5-2007 at 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress

It's not pot, it's the abuse of pot.

And, no, pot doesn't lead to hard drugs.

:cool:

I couldn't have said it better myself. CaboRon :wow:

amir - 6-5-2007 at 06:41 PM

Tobacco is a drug (well, at least the manufactured commercial cigarette). And more addictive than heroin. And it's legal. And the government makes tons of money on special taxes on tobacco products. There is great profit in smuggling cigarettes all over the world.

grover

Baja Bernie - 6-5-2007 at 07:18 PM

Could this be what I was refering to as Mantra's all those months ago......

"And then there is almost as large a subgroup who expend enormous energy denying it."

OH! I see where the Romans have tested the air above Rome and figured that there is 20 tons of cocaine floating about...........When I kidded my youngest daughter, who had just returned from Europe, about now I understood what she loved about Rome.................Her reply was a killer...."Dad, the only thing I smelled in Europe was body odor."

Unless you're Bill Clinton

Dave - 6-5-2007 at 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee
It's not pot, it's the abuse of pot.

OK...Would we all agree that alcohol abuse is drinking to excess...as in getting drunk?

So tell me...Just how does one not abuse pot?

It Leads To The Man

CaboRon - 6-5-2007 at 07:51 PM

I believe it was in 1975; I was doing sound for Sunny Terry & Brownie Magee at the Boarding House in San Francisco. Sunny turned 70 that week. These two blues greats are no longer with us, however Sunny left me with something interesting to think about ..... and I believe he was right on He said " Pot doesn't lead to hard drugs, but it does lead you to the man" .... Making this herb illegal has drawn to many young people into the dark world of dealers who would exploit anyone with an addictive personality. CaboRon