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Police bribes

Bordernews1 - 1-22-2007 at 05:42 PM

I'm a reporter with the San Diego Union-Tribune. I'm looking for people willing to share stories in which they willingly, or felt forced, to pay a bribe to Mexican cops to avoid traffic tickets.

I prefer to find people who filed some sort of a report with the U.S. Consulate, or through San Diego Police Department's program, but I invite others to write me as well. Please send a short synopsis of your situation, and when it took place to my email, or:

Anna.Cearley@uniontrib.com

I will be in touch and talk with you before we publish anything.

Thanks for your attention. Anna

surfer jim - 1-22-2007 at 05:57 PM

Welcome to NOMADS.....well, you sure came in here with a hot topic..... :bounce:

Just about EVERY person who has ever driven across the border should have some story to tell...... :biggrin:

DENNIS - 1-22-2007 at 06:26 PM

Bordernews1 / Anna Cearley

Why are you doing this?
If your motives are unselfish, I will be your most vocal supporter. We have long needed a voice, such as yours, to air our complaints.
Are your motives supportive to the expatriate community?

Bordernews1 - 1-22-2007 at 06:48 PM

Response to Dennis...not selfish. Just trying to document this sort of stuff.

Bruce R Leech - 1-22-2007 at 07:03 PM

How can you do a good job of reporting this way? it seems very irresponsible of you to troll for emails and posts to do research for a story to publish as fact. how can you possibly sort out the Truth from the fiction? I remember when reporters used to interview people face to face and verify the info before they would publish a story.

Sharksbaja - 1-22-2007 at 07:11 PM

That's right, some people aren't truthful.

bancoduo - 1-22-2007 at 07:15 PM

Kill the messenger. :no:

DENNIS - 1-22-2007 at 07:18 PM

Anna ----

Would you give us your Edress so we might authenticate your request?

Bruce R Leech - 1-22-2007 at 07:21 PM

they are only a messenger. if they have a real message. otherwise they are roomer spreaders.

bancoduo - 1-22-2007 at 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Anna ----

Would you give us your Edress so we might authenticate your request?

She gave it. :yes:

DENNIS - 1-22-2007 at 07:36 PM

I just Emailed her for authentification. If it's legit, she will probably respond here.

DENNIS - 1-22-2007 at 07:37 PM

Authentification.......... A new word

JZ - 1-22-2007 at 07:39 PM

Bruce, you are a bone head yet again.

DENNIS - 1-22-2007 at 07:42 PM

Soulpatch ---------

Bruce is always out of line if you're talking about his spelling but the context is usually right-on. He's just wondering if she is who she says she is.
Me too.

Sharksbaja - 1-22-2007 at 07:50 PM

Really Dennis?

Could a person do that here and expect to get away with it. Remember, email addresses are key to identity along with IP add.. There's only one way to find out. Actually there are a few ways. :yes:

Why would some imposter want us to email a reporter with related info. Makes no sense.

[Edited on 1-23-2007 by Sharksbaja]

Bruce R Leech - 1-22-2007 at 07:55 PM

I just think trolling Internet forums for a story is a good way to get allot of response so a story can be slanted anyway the writer wants. no doubt she is going to get lots of people saying that they were bilked out of a lot of money. I have been living in Mexico for almost 18 years and have driven almost 200 round trips to the border and I have never paid Police bribes or bribes to any Mexican in that time. it is not necessary if you fallow the rules here. but by the sounds of her first post she is set on putting down the Mexican Police for something that is the fault of the people that pay such Police bribes

Bedman - 1-22-2007 at 07:59 PM

Hmmmm...?

......with this kind of reception I doubt that we'll ever see Anna Cearly again. That's a shame. I, for one would think having a source inside the Tribune would be interesting, symbiotic and beneficial.

Anna, I have had several encounters with Tijuana and Ensenada police. Most recently, We were approaching the border area, coming from the Toll road. At the bottom of the hill there were several officers redirecting traffic. They had orange cones haphazardly placed near the broken/dotted lines in the road. I was driving my 34' motor-home and towing a 4 X 4 behind. I looked at the cones and knew immediately that there was no way I could turn within their parameters, I knew it and the cop knew it. The Motorcycle cop looked up at me and waved his arms to encourage me to hurry up and move, I did. Right over the side of one cone. I saw it skitter 4 or 5 feet, across the road in his direction. There was nothing i could do to miss it, the turn was too tight and only possible for cars to make.

About a minute later that same moto cop pulled up next to me and motioned for me to pull over. We pulled off onto a side street, following his directions and parked. I opened the drivers window and he asked me to step out. He asked me to stay between the motor-home and the curb while he proceeded to tell me that hitting his Orange cone was a violation. I told the officer that it was a temporary placement item and placed in such a position that made it impossible for my vehicle to maneuver past. I also asked if it (the cone) was damaged, he said no, but that he would have to write me a ticket and asked for my registration, insurance and license. I returned with the papers and handed them to him. He walked back to his motorcycle. I waited, pretty much knowing the "Bite" was coming since he reminded me to stay here, between the curb and the motor-home, hidden from view of other vehicles. He returned in less that a minute, had his ticket book in hand but wasn't writing. He said that this ticket would be especially expensive since I was driving such a large vehicle. I stood silent. He looked somewhat uncomfortable. I stood still, mouth closed, eyes looking directly into his, waiting for it. We both knew at that point it was a Mexican stand off. Finally he said I would have to follow him to the station. I told him "No, write me the ticket and I'll pay it next week on our return trip". He said he would have to take my license. We then had a discussion as to what I would use for a license in the states. I told him I had a copy of and it would be no problem. At that point another motorcycle cop pulled over another vehicle and it parked behind me. My motorcycle cop looked at them and then at me and handed me my license, insurance and registration back and told me "Please , drive safely". I left. End of story.

I didn't pay a Mordida this time, but I presume only because I have had other encounters of this type and have a little more experience than others. I have paid Mordidas before and I'm sure I'll get another chance some day. And I'm sure I was guilty of an infraction on at least one occasion.

Bedman

JZ - 1-22-2007 at 07:59 PM

Oh, let me understand this logic? Let's not blame the kidnappers, let's blame the people who let themselfs be kidnapped? Is that how it goes Bruce?

Sharksbaja - 1-22-2007 at 08:00 PM

How many times were you pulled over and then ended up at the station to settle up?

DENNIS - 1-22-2007 at 08:00 PM

C'mon Sharky ----

Just sayed I Emailed her at her address. Im sitting here with a huge pot of coffee waiting for a response.
No response by tomorrow, we go to the Trib so they can tell Cearley that she has somebody using her name.
Best we can do without trashing Bruce.

oxxo - 1-22-2007 at 08:09 PM

Anna.Cearley has already slanted the story if she only wants input from people who have paid bribes. What about people who have never paid or been asked for bribes.

I would think that if she were writing a legitimate article she would want the whole picture......good and bad. To my way of thinking, she would be better served by poling people as they crossed the border back into the US and ask how many had paid bribes.

Asking for input from people on this forum who have had a bad experience is going to get a very slanted view of what is really happening.

Sharksbaja - 1-22-2007 at 08:14 PM

It's always the same........moto cops usually, sit up there on the toll road exits to the border and wait for targets. They profile you. They know who to pull over. They just don't know how you'll respond do they? They have it down, no matter what you say. They may strike out occasionally but I'll bet their batting avg is above 750. We all know the drill. It's yer call. :lol:

:moon:

DENNIS - 1-22-2007 at 08:18 PM

Oh Jeeez ----

If somebody unknown , calling herself Anna Cearley from the Trib, dropped in and asked the world how many times you slid your hand down into the front of your pants while a watching wrestling match, would you answer?

I mean, I know who Anna Cearley is but, I dont know who this person, calling herself AC is.

woody with a view - 1-22-2007 at 08:19 PM

one subject at a time, maybe? if there are no responses the woman has no story. that's why she wouldn't ask at the port of entry how many returning gringos submitted to the bite. it does seem VERY presumptious (sp?, bruce?:lol

to kill the messenger before she even gets started.

after all, you don't have to read what she writes, do you?

and i think most people who have made more than a handful of trips will have a story to regurgitate on the subject of the mordida.

BTW, my last experience ended with the cop handing my license back and burning rubber after reading the back of my license where the phone number to the Sindicatura was proudly displayed.

vgabndo - 1-22-2007 at 08:19 PM

OXXO...I don't get it. Why would she need to learn what is known by people who have never been pulled over and have never paid a bribe. She already knows. They know nothing directly about the subject. The thing to do would be to get a clean (high ranking) cop to go with a decoy, isolate one of the criminal moto cops and go through his ticket book.

The guy who ripped me off had a stack of written tickets in his book, including mine, and I KNOW we wasn't about to give me a copy. If the scum was REALLY taking the money to the station as he claims, there would be a fine paper trail.

For every ticket in his book, or every serial number for which no completed ticket could be found...how about six months in jail. Might be something of an attention getter.

OK...thats as long as I'm going to hold MY breath.

Sharksbaja - 1-22-2007 at 08:19 PM

I agree..

Quote:

Anna.Cearley has already slanted the story if she only wants input from people who have paid bribes. What about people who have never paid or been asked for bribes.

The question does lead a viewer to respond catagorically. That makes the viewer suspicious. Good point!

Bruce R Leech - 1-22-2007 at 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
How many times were you pulled over and then ended up at the station to settle up?

about 8 times I have gone to the station and paid a fine every one I deserved. :lol:

Bruce R Leech - 1-22-2007 at 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Oh Jeeez ----

If somebody unknown , calling herself Anna Cearley from the Trib, dropped in and asked the world how many times you slid your hand down into the front of your pants while a watching wrestling match, would you answer?

I mean, I know who Anna Cearley is but, I dont know who this person, calling herself AC is.

I don't doubt that it is her I just don't like this kind of journalism :light:

Bedman - 1-22-2007 at 08:26 PM

Sharky, I disagree. (which is kind of rare, I usually agree with you)

vgabndo has his head screwed on right!!

vgabndo writes:
"I don't get it. Why would she need to learn what is known by people who have never been pulled over and have never paid a bribe. She already knows. They know nothing directly about the subject. "

Bedman

vgabndo - 1-22-2007 at 08:27 PM

Woody... I think you have one of the better ideas. With the sindicatura thing. The thug who got me last looked very carefully at the stickers on my truck I wish I had followed through and made some xerox copies of the sind. logo and plastered them on my windows.

A badged thief in Ensenada once held me for 20 minutes waiting for me to give in. When we got around to the Mexican tourism decal on the back of my trailer that said in Spanish "Tourism is beneficial to everyone" he finally handed back my license and went off looking for someone more nieve.

Although I know I don't have the stones to really do it, I daydream about taking huge numbers of photographs of the cop before he even opens his mouth to "bite".

DENNIS - 1-22-2007 at 08:30 PM

Who knows?
Anna Cearley might be doct who might be sackmeister

Stranger things have happened.........

Bedman...which part

Sharksbaja - 1-22-2007 at 08:44 PM

I had no problem qualifing her as legit or the post itself. It would have been acceptable from a regular Nomad. But now it's a problem of journalistic gain gleaned from selective quieries.
The question she presented only targeted people that had experience with bribes and cops. That is an old story here.
There is a huge audience with this subject and why? That part is obvious because so many regular travelers become a statistic.
I will agree to that this approach is leveled probably at gathering info for a story already in the works. What I don't see is all the people who have been thru all this being so miffed.
It peees me off that those motocops continue to do this. I paid the piper once. Next time, we'll see??? If the time spent or the charge outwieghs the 20 bucks I could swing either way.
Wish they would actually pay the fine for you as the claim. Do they?? I mean after all, you are suppose to believe what they say.....right? :lol:

[Edited on 1-23-2007 by Sharksbaja]

oxxo - 1-22-2007 at 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vgabndo
Why would she need to learn what is known by people who have never been pulled over and have never paid a bribe.

So she can write a story that will show the exact magnitude of the problem. The danger is writing a story that will paint every policeman in Mexico with a negative broadbrush. Yes, it does happen, but to what extent?

I have been traveling in Mexico for 40 years and have been pulled over twice and I deserved it both times. Both times I was told to get on my way with a warming of "be careful." No ticket, no mordida, nothing. Was I lucky? Yes. Is my experience an anomoly or is it the more typical experience in Mexico? My brother-in-law refuses to drive in Mexico because he has heard all the bad stories. Has he ever been pulled over? No, but he has heard all the stories.

I too want to expose the corrupt cops, But Anna.Cearley's methodology is already suspect and is likely to do more harm than good.

[Edited on 1-23-2007 by oxxo]

Von - 1-22-2007 at 09:40 PM

what ever it is just say yes and say can i pay here and nbow?

coconaco - 1-22-2007 at 09:50 PM

Let me get this straight-
mee-no is minnow
pompano morphed into SUMMANUS
Oso = Grover
Bruce Leach is Elvis
Doc sackmiester is A.C.
JZ is at 666 and is playing devils advocate

coconaco - 1-22-2007 at 10:08 PM

I am not a part of the female anatomy

I am mearly a bottom feeder

and you know more than most here

Sharksbaja - 1-22-2007 at 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by coconaco
Let me get this straight-
mee-no is minnow
pompano morphed into SUMMANUS
Oso = Grover
Bruce Leach is Elvis
Doc sackmiester is A.C.
JZ is at 666 and is playing devils advocate

so who are you? :lol:

David K - 1-22-2007 at 11:20 PM

There are two types of 'mordida', right?

1) The cop pulls you over to give you a ticket and HE tells you you have to pay him the money.

2) The cop pulls you over to give you a ticket and YOU ask him if he can take your money and pay the fine for you.

Sharksbaja - 1-23-2007 at 12:19 AM

Precisely!

BajaNomad - 1-23-2007 at 12:21 AM

Two things of note:

1. The original posting was made from the offices of the San Diego Union-Tribune. For me, that seems, well, prettttty legit enough.

2. The request was for specific information. There was nothing in that request indicating what the story was about entirely though. I would think that's just one piece of the puzzle in whatever is being addressed with this.

My stories would be of being stopped and waiting it out until I was told I could go. About once-a-year on average.

Interesting item that I *KNOW* got me targeted one time in Tijuana.... my surfboard in the back of the pickup. They were waiting for me at the top of the cloverleaf approaching the border. The motorcycle officer was off his motorcycle and waving all the cars ahead of me by, and signaled for me to pull over. Someone else had "radioed ahead" to he and his partner of my speed along the Int'l Blvd.

I waited that one out too, and he gave me the same "drive careful" bit as Mexray had indicated in another post.

--
Doug

[Edited on 1-23-2007 by BajaNomad]

AmoPescar - 1-23-2007 at 01:47 AM

Sometimes...some of you are...SO OUT OF LINE, SO PARANOID, and/or SUCH marooonS when it comes to your replies!!!!

If you've ever read any of the SAN DIEGO UNION TRIBUNE's articles which Nomads post here, you'd know that ANNA CEARLY is a reporter for them. She gave her e-mail address with uniontrib.com in it. Before jumping to some off-beat conclusion, you simply could have gone to that ".com" address and looked her up. You then could have read some of her articles from the archives and seen what her past topics on Baja have been about. You would have seen that she is a fair and reliable reporter and that if anything, she is ON OUR SIDE (Baja lovers).

Why would anyone make a post using her name??? That's sure a paranoid thought if I ever heard one.

I am sure that here motives are good. She's a REPORTER, who covers Baja for the Union Tribune, and she wants to write a story about Baja Travelers and there encounters with the Policia. That makes PERFECT SENSE to me!!!TOO BAD YOU don't have enough sense to understand that.

I await your scathing replies!!!

Amo Pescar :mad:

[Edited on 1-23-2007 by AmoPescar]

bajadave1 - 1-23-2007 at 07:05 AM

Amo,

I agree. AND, who's to say the she is slanting a story, when it has not been published????????????????????

Seems to me she could be researching many different aspects to a
POSSIBLE story.

Bajadave

Pescador - 1-23-2007 at 07:19 AM

Now I am totally confused, Bruce is worried that this woman may have a slant on reporting accurately what happened and yet, if my memory serves me correctly, he was accused of a bias in the reporting of the "crime wave" in Mulege by another reporter.
I don't really understand the issue being raised. Anyone with any time in Mexico has, most likely, had at least some encounter with a policeman making some traffic accusation but they seem to not write an actual ticket and are willing to negotiate the actual cost of the fine. What if she wanted to write a story of the times you had been ripped off at a Pemex station. These topics have all been talked about extensively on this forum as well as the old Baja Amigos forum. It seems to me there is some problem present if everyone keeps talking about it. I don't always see this as a terrible social slam on Mexico, but perhaps a little information may be a way of combatting the problem. I certainly try to tell my friends about how to handle the situation of being "hit upon" by a mexican policeman. I know the advise of this forum as well as others has been to tell the person very clearly that you do not wish to pay him directly but that you would like to go the the Justicia to see what the actual fine is. And, in most cases, the nice policeman goes on to another person who is easier to get money from.

Have you ever been stopped, paid a bribe, and complained to the consulate or the San Diego Police Department?

villadelfin - 1-23-2007 at 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bordernews1

I prefer to find people who filed some sort of a report with the U.S. Consulate, or through San Diego Police Department's program, but I invite others to write me as well.
Thanks for your attention. Anna

Have all forgotten the real question? She states that she is looking for people who have filed a report of complaint. I myself can see value in an investigation as to what happens if we use US government official offices to help us when we were asked to pay a bribe.

jimgrms - 1-23-2007 at 08:09 AM

I personelly don't see where a story on bribes to cops in a american paper is going to do a hell of a lot to stop it in baja jmho,,,,jim

Well said Amo...

M - 1-23-2007 at 08:11 AM

My thoughts exactly! WHAT in the hell is going on on this board that a simple request from a known journalist is right off the bat taken as suspect and given such rude responses to a woman who politely requested some personal experiences? Nice welcome to the Nomads board guys...
Cudos to those that actually took the time to investigate her credentials, though to me, even that seemed unncesesary, how many times has this very subject been hashed out on this board?
Was anybody else grilled regarding their intentions for posting their experiences? NOT!
Give the lady a break, she was up front and polite, and we greeted her with a load of crap. Lighten up!
M

losfrailes - 1-23-2007 at 08:54 AM

Of what value is there attacking a well known accredited journalist.

If you have ever been faced with the prospect of paying mordida, then you have an experience to relate if you care to. If never faced with that experience then you have nothing to add.

This attempt at gathering information about a segment of the TiJuana police force is certainly in keeping with the current situation in that city.

Note that the suspicions leveled at this ladies credentials are voiced by noone who took the time to investigate who she was.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20070123-9...

Now who will have something to add regarding her current article, under her byline, in the San Diego Union Tribune.

Cypress - 1-23-2007 at 09:04 AM

No personal experiences in Baja, but have been the victim of a few "speed traps" in the USA.

oxxo - 1-23-2007 at 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNomad
My stories would be of being stopped and waiting it out until I was told I could go. About once-a-year on average.

So the question becomes: Is someone pulled over once a year on average because they are breaking the law or are they being targeted with trumped up charges by the Mexican police? I think that is the question. Some people report being pulled over more often than others. Is it because they deserve it or because they are unlucky? I don't know, but the answer would be interesting.

Certainly, some of the speed limits in Mexico seem to be pretty unreasonable, but it is Mexico, it is their country, and the law is there for them to enforce.....even if it appears to be selective. I have the option of boycotting Mexico if I don't like the way things are done there.

surfer jim - 1-23-2007 at 09:16 AM

After reading all this I am "dissapointed" that my first reply was ..."welcome to NOMADS...." :no:

bancoduo - 1-23-2007 at 09:25 AM

And it wasn't even full moon.:moon:

losfrailes - 1-23-2007 at 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by surfer jim
After reading all this I am "dissapointed" that my first reply was ..."welcome to NOMADS...." :no:

Don't castigate yourself because of a minority part of this boards uncaring members. She deserves an apology from a number of people on this board.

God forbid that those same people ever need any assistance requiring help from someone under similar circumstances.

New way to ask for mordida

fdt - 1-23-2007 at 09:38 AM

Bajalover - 1-23-2007 at 11:00 AM

Well now :!:

Does this mean that I have a good chance of being pulled over because I'm going south through TJ:
1- I have a hugh orange kayak on my truck
2- pulling a 30ft Coors Can (shiny 2004 airstream trailer)
3- drive slowly to avoid hitting anyone
:?:

Do I wait out the Police to see if I can get away with out paying :?:

Cincodemayo - 1-23-2007 at 12:03 PM

I think the gal is ready to do an article on how uptight a simple question can get on travel forums. Time to break out the cervezas people!
Actually I think she's an informant for the Mexican Mafia :?:

AmoPescar - 1-23-2007 at 01:09 PM

jimgrms...and others…

Quote:

Originally posted by jimgrms
I personelly don't see where a story on bribes to cops in a american paper is going to do a hell of a lot to stop it in baja jmho,,,,jim

I can't believe you (or anyone else) can't understand...why a story on that subject might help STOP the problem!!!!

Baja tourism officials, business owners, government officials, etc., all HATE that type of BAD publicity. It‘s a well known fact, that Baja's economy receives a huge boost from tourism dollars. When negative stories like that are written, it's just one more thing that makes tourists think twice about crossing the border.

We've all read on Baja Nomad, in the newspapers, or seen on TV news, about the Mexican government's crack down on crime in their country. They don't want corrupt cops working for them and they're trying to do something about.

A story by a prominent newspaper in a large border city might just put some more pressure on the government to do something about the problem. The San Diego Union Tribune is owned and published by Copley Newspapers, which own several other newspapers published in large cities. Often when these stories are written here, they are published in many other newspapers across the U.S. So it can have a far reaching effect, well beyond San Diego.

Also, I know that the San Diego TV news stations often steal stories from the Union Tribune and air them. I’ve seen this many times, where a story is published in the morning paper and is on TV by the afternoon news broadcast.

If we love Baja as much as we say, instead of becoming wary, paranoid or critical of an effort, we should do anything we can do to help make Baja a better place.

As someone wrote earlier, I think a few of the negative posters owe Anna Cearly a personal apology for the rude way they treated her, and for questioning her motives.

Sadly, the Baja Nomad board and all it’s members could be a valuable and reliable source of information for the newspaper and news stations reporters who do stories on Baja. But unless amends are made, I doubt that Anna will ever ask here again…and maybe not any of her media colleagues either!!!!

AMO PESCAR :fire:

Cincodemayo - 1-23-2007 at 01:13 PM

Amo...She's most likely shaking her head thinking WTF was that about?

in my mail...

Sharksbaja - 1-23-2007 at 01:18 PM

"I am afraid to post because I get eaten alive by those sharks out there. Some people are just too intense, and this board gets deeper and deeper and deeper.....

the thread got back on track so I didn't want to derail it again.

Thanks for not eating me!"

----
Geez, is this how folks are seeing us.
Chill out forchristssake! Or for your own sake!

AmoPescar - 1-23-2007 at 01:21 PM

Cincodemayo...

Quote:

Originally posted by Cincodemayo
Amo...She's most likely shaking her head thinking WTF was that about?

I'm sure that's what she was thinking. She asked for help... from what she thought would be a good, reliable source, and all she got was a ration of S _ _ T !!!!

AMO PESCAR

[Edited on 1-24-2007 by AmoPescar]

Cypress - 1-23-2007 at 02:09 PM

Heck, it's cheaper to pay on the spot!

You avoid the the lost time, court costs, taxes, increased insurance rates, etc.

mtgoat666 - 1-23-2007 at 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by surfer jim
Just about EVERY person who has ever driven across the border should have some story to tell.....

Disagree. I have driven many hundreds of hours in Mexico and never been pulled over for a moving violation. I drive pretty well, and obey the posted signs. This leads me to believe that all of you that get pulled over frequently must be pretty bad drivers. While I know some cops are subject to soliciting a bribe now and then, I believe that the initial pullover is most always due to some valid traffic violation.

villadelfin - 1-23-2007 at 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by villadelfin
Have all forgotten the real question? She states that she is looking for people who have filed a report of complaint. I myself can see value in an investigation as to what happens if we use US government official offices to help us when we were asked to pay a bribe.

Common as mordidas might be, I find it hard to even imagine filing a complaint with a U.S. official about such a thing (what good would that do?). Does anyone know personally of such a case?

--Larry

Well, that's my point. She said she is looking for people who filed complaints so she can do a story on it.

DENNIS - 1-23-2007 at 05:58 PM

Mordida, in its purist form, is an ideal arraingement. Those who break the law support the law enforcement agency. Unfortunately, greed and power abuse ruin a good thing.

Negative Stories ?

MrBillM - 1-23-2007 at 06:05 PM

I'm having a little trouble with the thought that "Mordida" stories fall into the negative category. Personally, I have always been appreciative of the system and have participated (with one noted exception) willingly whenever asked. At the Border it has been, without exception, more pleasant than the "Legal" importation route.

Regarding Mordida and Traffic Infractions, although I haven't been in that situation often considering Forty-Five years of travel in Baja, I have accumulated more than a few. The most egregious was that of doing 50mph on Hwy 5 South of Mexicali in an area that was posted 40Kph. Five minutes, 20 bucks, no ding on the insurance and everybody was happy. You have to love a system that works like that. Before that it was the criminal act of towing a boat trailer with an expired tag. Also 20 bucks. The one time I took exception was a year or so ago when the Mexicali Motorcycle cop wanted 60 bucks for a seat belt violation. Since the station was on the way, that was enough dough to make a stop for. As it turned out, he let me go and went trolling for someone else.

Unlike just about everyone I've ever met who descirbes their experiences, each time I have been guilty of the act I was pulled over for. Everyone else seems to be completely innocent when they're preyed upon. Very ODD.

The only thing NEGATIVE I've found in the Mordida system is that lately it seems to have suffered from pronounced inflation.

BTW, Bruce, over the years I've had quite a few female "roomers" that I'd like to spread, but my wife would have objected.

[Edited on 1-24-2007 by MrBillM]

BajaNomad - 1-23-2007 at 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
...I believe that the initial pullover is most always due to some valid traffic violation.

I know for myself (and have read here the same for others) that the violation seems to sometimes be simply for driving while gringo. Two instances come to mind for me - one time in La Paz, and another time in Guerrero Negro.

Here, El Jefe notes being stopped in La Paz for the same:

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=9447&page...

--
Doug

Don Alley - 1-23-2007 at 09:18 PM

We've been pulled over five times. Oops!

Three were our fault. We paid the cop twice, got a warning once.

Two were not our fault, both in Constitution. One for speeding, while creeping along in the far right lane because we know the town's a speed trap. The other for an illegal left turn at green light. The police woman told us we had to wait for a green arrow.

That would be a really long wait, until such an arrow is installed. :lol:

Paid at the station.

No, we filed no official complaint. Especially not to a US authority. That never even occured to us. But I did consider telling the furniture store there where we've spent hundreds of dollars that maybe HE should talk to the local police.

abreojos - 1-24-2007 at 03:55 AM

Here is an undocumented story that may shed a little light on the subject. I was pulled over in November 2 days after my US tags expired. If I would have gone to the station to pay the fine, Iit would have cost me 300 pesos and 500 for a tow truck. The cop asked for 800 pesos and since they make so little and have such a crummy job, I figured he needed the money more than anyone else. I do not like supporting paying mordida, and do not recomend anyone paying it if they haven't done anything wrong, but there are times when it greases the wheel.
I have even been with the grandson of a former Mexican president and was stopped north of Loreto. We did not do anything wrong, but the former president's grandson was really tanked and offered the cop money. The cop would not take it with me watching , but eventually did when I wasn't and scurried off in a hurry afterwards.
I do not know how you plan on using this information, but I hope it helps you get the big picture.
Sorry you got ruffed up a little at the start of this thread. There are a few nuckleheads with too much time on their hands on this forum and get a little terratorial, but all in all this is a great place to find out what is going on.

Bruce R Leech - 1-24-2007 at 07:27 AM

the problem with paying Police bribes is that you are the one that encourages it to happen for the next guy. if none paid Police bribes there would be no Police bribes. and a lot fewer people being polled over for miner infractions. don't be afraid to stand your ground and go to the station if necessary, it will take a little longer but you will be part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

DON'T FEED THE BEARS.

Good read

Spyderman - 1-24-2007 at 10:00 AM

Haven't been on for awhile, checked out this thread, thanks Nomads, it was great reading. LOL

Being Part of the Solution.

MrBillM - 1-24-2007 at 10:27 AM

It seems to me that I AM a part of the solution everytime I pay Mordida. I am doing my best to support and preserve Traditional Mexican Culture. I keep reading complaints here that Mexico is becoming too much like the U.S. The Beat-Cop is much more deserving of that small stipend to enhance his family's economic position than is the Bloated and Dysfuntional Mexican Bureaucracy.

If Anyone thinks that changing the "Mordida" situation and reforming their justice system to emulate ours would be an improvement, I have a couple of Bridges over Swamps next to Great Real Estate in Amboy I'd like them to consider.

One of the most evident examples of the Local, State and Federal Law Enforcement in Los Estados Unidos is that it is considered a MAJOR revenue source by said Governmental Entities. I've seen more Traffic Traps in the U.S. and more Traffic Stops aimed at revenue enhancement than anywhere else.

IF the Mexican Bureaucracy was actually able to cure the Mordida situation and get the officers to play the game legally, they would realize such an infusion of assets that we'd see "Quotas" or "Expectations" determined for Traffic Officers as we do in the U.S. You'd be getting pulled over for having a Fly obstruct part of your License Tag.

abreojos - 1-24-2007 at 11:30 AM

I agree with you 100% Mr. Bill. The point is there really isn't going to be any real solution any time soon. There are only 1 million Gringos living in Mexico. If a former Mexican president's grandson supports the system and pays mordida, how do you think the current population of gringos can change it? It's as pervasive as trash. Do you see an end to that problem any time soon? If you can't beat them, and you can't, well you might as well join them. After all it is their country.

Cypress - 1-24-2007 at 11:31 AM

Have never been to court and had a judge dismiss the charges/fines etc. lodged against me, all misdemeanor sort of things. :saint:

Thank God! :bounce:

Only experiences have been in USA. Would just as soon pay on the spot and get on down the road. :tumble:

More from Anna Cearley

Bordernews1 - 1-24-2007 at 06:06 PM

Wow! I just checked in on the message board and was amazed at the conversation this topic has generated. I'll try and address a few of the points that were brought up.

First of all, I don't blame anyone for doubting who I am. It's very smart, and well-founded in this Internet age. I would hate it if someone was trolling around here saying they were me, so thanks for checking. You can reach me at my TJ office number : 664 634-0422 or email me at my Union-Trib address.

Second...I have actually written quite a few articles exploring the realities of police work here and the moral/ethical dilemnas police face.
My aim is not to slam the police force. It is , however, a problem that I think deserves attention because when this becomes accepted behavier it can lead to abuses. I'm afraid it's become so common that it's accepted and we simply don't report about it because it's accepted behavior .

Finally, it's my hope to explore the issue from all sides. I find it interesting that some people prefer the system as it it.

Thanks to all of you who have responded . It's obviously a topic that is worthdiscussing!

Anna

p.s. sorry for the delay for posting this. I've been out of the office. I'll get back to those who shared their info. once i'm done with some stories.

[Edited on 1-25-2007 by Bordernews1]

oxxo - 1-24-2007 at 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bordernews1

I'm afraid it's become so common that it's accepted and we simply don't report about it because it's accepted behavior .

[Edited on 1-25-2007 by Bordernews1]

Anna, How common is it? What are the statistics and how were they generated?

Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks.

DENNIS - 1-24-2007 at 08:59 PM

Anna ----
Thanks for the response and sorry for the abuse. You have here a mine of information and willing participants. I dont know if the public forum would generate your most useful responses but a private dialogue may.
If that's your choice, we will all miss the gang fight that this issue could generate but, we'll entertain ourselves in other ways.
Thanks for your interest.

deal or no deal?

Sharksbaja - 1-24-2007 at 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo

Quote:

Originally posted by Bordernews1

I'm afraid it's become so common that it's accepted and we simply don't report about it because it's accepted behavior .

[Edited on 1-25-2007 by Bordernews1]

Anna, How common is it? What are the statistics and how were they generated?

Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks.

Hello! Look how she states that. "I'm afraid it's become" not "it's become" and "We" can mean her and and any number of people. Another case of IMHO perhaps. :lol:

I wonder how much forums are used in researching a story. I can see problems with that. Like someone said, how would you know if someone is spinning a yarn? I suppose there's a certain amount of credibility expected from reporters. We do have some wonderful fiction writers onboard here tho so buyer beware?. But then, why would anyone make up a story when it's not necessary? :rolleyes:

Remember:
Not every writer/reporter is evil.

Just those who work for the NYTimes

DENNIS - 1-24-2007 at 09:12 PM

Hey Sharky --------

What does it matter? Who cares? What can she do that would affect my, or your life?

Dennis, sometimes

Sharksbaja - 1-24-2007 at 09:51 PM

it's about everybody, not you or me. Maybe a viewer could or will, deal with a future situation more appropriately with info from an article. Maybe not.
Education sometimes comes in the form of journalism. It's the benefit of the doubt for me in this case. Probably because I can relate directly to part of her quiery.

AmoPescar - 1-24-2007 at 10:54 PM

Sharksbaja

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
I wonder how much forums are used in researching a story. I can see problems with that. Like someone said, how would you know if someone is spinning a yarn? I suppose there's a certain amount of credibility expected from reporters. We do have some wonderful fiction writers onboard here tho so buyer beware?. But then, why would anyone make up a story when it's not necessary?

I think both Anna and Sandra Dibble believe that the Nomad board and it's posters is a reliable and valuable source of information regarding all subjects Baja. When Nomads have informed them about the crimes, etc. and asked for their help in getting the word out, they've cooperated in spreading the word regarding them.

I'm sure they know that this board is often the first place where some of that information is available. I bet they check this board first thing everyday, to see what's going on in Baja.

Amo Pescar :yes:

Mordidas viven

Big Al - 1-24-2007 at 11:20 PM

Some of you are lucky bastards, or full of something. If you have never been pulled over in Baja in 40 years, put a surfboard on top of your car and drive into Tj or Rosarito. It is just a matter of time. I can remember driving down the street and being pulled over. I was pulled over for a light out, that's what he told me. It was a brake light. He pulled me over before I ever used me brakes. It was just the excuse he used once he got behind me and noticed it was out when he pulled me over. Meanwhile there are cars all around me on the streets without lights at all, cracked and missing windshields, all owned by the locals. I do not get pulled over much anymore. I think that fact that I am older now and traveling with children, I don't fit the profile much anymore. Like I said, put a 20 something in a car with a surfboard and your gonna get it. I have never been pulled over for speeding and often do speed. However, I have been pulled over for fantom infractions. These cops focus on tourists because that is where the money is. If you don't bone up with cash, they just move on to the next gringo willing to pay.

I am not bashing, that is just the way it is.

Iflyfish - 1-24-2007 at 11:44 PM

Woody wrote
"BTW, my last experience ended with the cop handing my license back and burning rubber after reading the back of my license where the phone number to the Sindicatura was proudly displayed."

I have traveled in Mexico for over forty years. My travels have taken me to most of the stated in Mexico. I have experienced the Mordida on a number of occasions. I have learned to avoid eye contact with any police and try to stay "out of their radar".

There is no question that Mordida exists and there are many reasons for it. There are pros and cons as to it's current value as elaborated by others in this thread. Its practice of course fits into a larger judicial and economic system with deep hisorical roots. A fellow Nomad recommended the book There Is a Word for it in Mexico to me and I think that this book gets at the larger social/economic/judicial context for this proceedure.

I personally do not like being blackmailed regardless of the context. I however have been of the pay as you go school and bargain for the best rate class in that school.

I am very interested in Woody's post above. I have never been entirely satisfied with the advice I have been given as to how to handle this problem. The latest tourist guide books tell readers to not pay the bribe. I have heard horror stories from people who refused to pay and ended up in the clink making their arguments from there. I know that I have looked in the dead eyes of some very scary cops who I was glad to pay to just keep them from looking at me. I have been stopped and have gotten off with warnings, but those were situations where I may have committed some sort of offence.

Now tell me Woody or someone else, what is Sindicatura? Is the number on the back of a Mexican or USA drivers license.

I used to be a Deputy Sherrif in the USA and carried a card identifying me as such. I never had a ticket as long as I carried that card and displayed it prominantly as I fumbled for my driver's license. I considered it Diplomatic Immunity and it was.

I would be interested in any other strategies that people use to deal with the dreaded, by some, black hand. I am certain that the reporter too might be interested in hearing some of these strategies.

Iflyfishwhennotpayingtheman

oxxo - 1-25-2007 at 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Look how she states that. "I'm afraid it's become" not "it's become" and "We" can mean her and and any number of people. Another case of IMHO perhaps.

I don't have any problem with reporters writing their opinions. It is just that opinions belong on the op-ed page, not as a news story.

It will be impossible for Anna to verify the veracity of the reports elicited on this Board. I think what Anna should do (as suggested by another post) is ride along with a 20 year old friend and drive through TJ with a surfboard on top for several trips. Everything on the car should be in perfect working order and they should follow all the posted signs. Let's see how often they are pulled over and see if they are asked for a bribe. I'm sure it happens, but how often?

In my opinion, that is a better way to research a story than asking for yarns from the Nomad Board.

Crusoe - 1-25-2007 at 09:31 AM

Anna........ From what I have expierenced and have heard the most interesting storys about over the years is La Paz is worse for this type of activity than T.J.. I try to keep clear and avoid T.J..

abreojos - 1-26-2007 at 05:36 AM

Looking like a really green Gringo down here will get you into trouble every now and then but it really doen't matter. I prefer driving with Baja plates most of the time, but have gotten the 3rd degree at the check points because of it.
I find cops in the states are a whole lot more scary, except maybe TJ cops. Knowing the law and your rights can keep you from getting into a jam if you know how to argue it in Spanish. My wife informed me they can't impound your vehicle like they can in the states, which I did not understand last time I got pulled over and a big reason why I paid on the spot. But pieces of helpful informaton are painfully revealed poco poco, even from my wife! Next time I'll make my case and give them a run for my money. I have been pulled over for nothing and talked my way out of it at the station.
I know all the cops in Abreojos and they are the only one's in this world that I have met who I do want to know. That is one of the great things we all love about Abreojos.

[Edited on 1-27-2007 by abreojos]