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gringo

pargo - 1-23-2007 at 11:23 AM

I was listening to a talkshow on XM the other day and the guy was talking about how that Hugo Chavez guy was ranting and raving about "gringos go home" and what not. The question the host asked his listeners was...what does gringo mean? and where does this word have it's origins?. So not unlike Nomads, the topic went horribly astray and turned into a racial melee which was quite hilarious and the question never got answered....Do Nomads know?

Cypress - 1-23-2007 at 11:40 AM

Chavez is just another Castro, a two bit dictator. Only difference being, he's got a wad of cash from oil sales. Have no desire to go anywhere near his sad little country. :bounce:

Bajalover - 1-23-2007 at 11:52 AM

Visited Venezuela countryside and Caracas many times 1994 to 2000 during my working days. It WAS a great country to sight see in and spend time on their beaches. Not any more :fire:

pargo - 1-23-2007 at 11:56 AM

.....and so the topic strays...

Don Alley - 1-23-2007 at 12:01 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gringo

Lots of good stuff here on the word "gringo."

David K - 1-23-2007 at 12:05 PM

When the U.S. soldiers marched into Mexico during our 'invasion' of 1846, they were heard singing "Green Grow the Rushes, O"...

"GreenGrow" hmmmm????

(above from Mike McMahan's 1973 book 'There It Is: Baja!')

Skeet/Loreto - 1-23-2007 at 12:17 PM

My two Cents Worth on this subject.

When I first went to Loreto, Baja Sur in 1968,we,Mexicano fisherman and I would have dicusssions.
The Mexicanos referred to the Americanos as "Pi-----he Gringos". I resented this and one day around the Pangas in front of the Hotel Oasis I got their attention and said: If you Mexicanos keep referring to me as a "Pi---he Gringo" I will start calling you "Greasers"!
All discussuion stopped and I tole them that I was an Americano, they were Mexicanos.

To this day I was never called a Gringo again to my Face. Some of those Pangaero's grand kids refer to me as an Americano.

Gringo is a "Bad Name " to me
I would suggest that when talking to the Mexican that you refer to them as Mexicanos- You will be surprised.

Skeet/Loreto

Oso - 1-23-2007 at 05:01 PM

As much as we've discussed this, it's amazing that there are still those gullible enough to swallow the absurd and totally illogical "false etymologies" regarding (English) song lyrics and the color of (nonexistent) uniforms. If you really want to know from a true authority and thorough researcher of Spanish etymology, here he is:

GRINGOS
By Arturo Ortega Morán
(Specially dedicated to my friends at Baja.Net)
Translated by Oso

Gringos. That is what, in Mexico, we call our neighbors of the North, particularly the Anglo-Saxons. We have with them, a proximity which has marked our history and has diminished our geography. We have from this, one of the expressions with which we try to justify our frustrations as a country: "Poor little Mexico, so far from God and so close to the gringos!".

But, why do we call them gringos? Very widespread is the explanation that this word was born in the 19th century, during the U.S. invasion of Mexico. Within this hypothesis there are different versions.

One says that during the Mexican-American war (1846-1848); the Northamerican soldiers who invaded Mexico sang a song called "Green Grow the Lilacs". Those of the North sang it so much that the Mexicans, as good as we are at making nicknames, soon used the sound "green grow" to refer to them.

In the other version, perhaps the more popular, it is maintained that when the Northamerican soldiers invaded Mexico, they wore green uniforms. The Mexicans, in bad English, shouted "green go home" at them, and from this came the word "gringo".

If you believed either of these explanations was true, let me tell you that it is plainly demonstrated that they are false. The word "gringo" is of Spanish origin and is documented since the 18th century. It appears in the "Diccionario Castellano con las voces de ciencias y artes" (1787); compiled by Father Esteban de Terreros y Pando. There it says: "Gringos: so called in Malaga, those foreigners who have a certain kind of accent, which deprives them of easy locution and natural Castilian; and in Madrid they are called the same and for the same reason, particularly the Irish".

If you still have doubts, the following Spanish [from Spain] text from 1840 (Before the Mexico-U.S. war); is sufficient to discard any Mexican origin:

-¿Qué entiendo yo de bodegas, y de abonar el terreno,
y si se mide el centeno por varas o por fanegas
-¿Qué entiendo yo de elegancia, y de ese tono de aqui,
ni qué me importan a mí los figurines de Francia?
-De la barra y la pelota yo el mérito no distingo.
-Ni yo de óperas en gringo, donde no cantan la jota.

[What do I know of warehouses, and fertilizing the soil.
And if wheat is measured in yards or fanegas (unit of measurement in liters or square meters)
What do I know of elegance or the way they speak here,
Nor what do I care about figurines from France?
Of the stick and the ball, I don't distinguish the merit.
Nor of operas in gringo, where they don't sing the jota (popular Spanish music/dance)]

The most probable, is that "gringo" is a deformation of the word "griego" [Greek]. An argument in favor of this is that when we don�t understand something, we say indistinctly that "estaba en gringo" [it was in gringo] or "estaba en griego" [it was in Greek]. Also, suggestive of this is the ancient Latin proverb "graecum est; non potest legi", which means "it's in Greek and cannot be read". Also a related word is "greguería" which means, "confused shouting".

One never knows the repercussions of not studying languages. If those soldiers who invaded us had been given courses in Spanish, we would never have called them "gringos".

David K - 1-23-2007 at 05:11 PM

Yah, but you can sing "Green Grow the Rushes, O" (while building your Baja vacation house without an an FM-3) !!! :lol:

Thanks for the real scoop Oso!

[Edited on 1-24-2007 by David K]

Seems Like Only Yesterday.

MrBillM - 1-23-2007 at 05:36 PM

But, it's probably been at least a year since this subject was beat to Death on this same Forum. It's surprising that the same "fanciful" explanations (lyrics, uniforms) keep coming up despite all of the information to the contrary.

baja829 - 1-23-2007 at 05:57 PM

A bit more history here if you please--- When "we" the U.S. invaded Mexico, (War of Intervention in Mexico 1846-1848) soldiers comprised of poor Irish immigrants (known as the Patricios) had joined the U.S. Army and were assigned, with others, to the invasion of Mexico.

They were, as Irish immigrants, treated quite harshly by their own and others, and being largely Catholic wondered why the Mexican Catholics were being attacked. (certainly not ove religion???) Consequently, a great number deserted, went to the Mexican side and when Mexico was defeated, most of them were rounded up and hanged as traitors by the U.S. Army in Mexico City or wherever they were found, or branded with a "T" on their foreheads. Many survived, stayed in Mexico and to this day you can find their descendants, throughout the Country with Irish surnames.

And, yes, they were singing "Green Grow the Valley Oats" as they marched in and through Mexico. The word "gringo" resonated a bit louder to Mexican ears and stuck - nothing derrogatory. Just a phrase developed from "Green Grow".

With regard to current day use, it all depends on how its used and who uses it - like many not so pleasant words in English -- if you're mad and use it, it's received derrogatorily -- if not, one generally laughs it off. If one is just trying to denote a difference, "the Gringos and the Mexicans had a great dinner together" - no harm done nor intended. One more point, Mexicans are Americans too - we're all North Americans, from the North American hemisphere, so some of them don't appreciate us reserving the word "American" just for ourselves.

oxxo - 1-23-2007 at 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pargo
the topic went horribly astray and turned into a racial melee which was quite hilarious and the question never got answered....Do Nomads know?

How is XM radio unlike BajaNomads?

David K - 1-23-2007 at 06:57 PM

I do think Oso has a good answer that seems to be documented...

baja829, citizens of the 'United States of America' are known as Americans. We were an independent country BEFORE any others on the American continent, afterall. Mexico and most of Central America was part of Spain, Canada was part of England (U.K.)... Alaska was part of Russia. Let's not loose our identity any further...

Following our example, other countries proclaimed their independence. Citizens of the 'United Mexican States' are known as Mexicans... Panama's people are Panamanians and the same goes for the other countries of North America.

US "Cans"

MrBillM - 1-23-2007 at 07:17 PM

Time and again I've noticed that it's only those supercilious Americans themselves who take umbrage in behalf of the "other" natives of the Continent at our referring to ourselves as Americans. On any given day you can find examples, in print and otherwise, of the Mexicans themselves referring to us as "Americanos".

Good enough for me.

David K - 1-23-2007 at 07:28 PM

and on that note Bill, they even go as far as to call us 'Norte Americanos'!

If they (Mexicans) think that they too are 'North Americans', why would they call U.S. citizens that???

fdt - 1-23-2007 at 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
and on that note Bill, they even go as far as to call us 'Norte Americanos'!

If they (Mexicans) think that they too are 'North Americans', why would they call U.S. citizens that???

Sorry but I've never heard them (mexicans) say that they are Noreteamericanos or think that they are North Americans. It's a translation thing again. Mexicans know for a fact that they are from America del Norte and not as you say Norteamerica, two different things.
Maybe it is easier to understand this way:

America del Norte = North America = Canada, USA, México
America Central = Central America=from Belize to Panama
America del Sur = South America = from Colombia to Tierra del Fuego
If we see this, that is why mexicans know that they are from North America or America del Norte in spanish.

Mexicans now they are mexican and Norteamericanos (note that it is one word) are people from the USA.
Norte America (two words) means the north of America.
Translating is a serious business

but Traducing would be great :lol:

Whoever is writing norte americanos refering to the citizens of the USA does not know how to write in spanish and there is were some of this confusion starts.
Then we have the Estadounidenses (again one word) and those are also the citizens of the USA. Mexicans know that they are from the United States but of mexico and are not refered to or think they are Estadounidenses but they are de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos.
Again, it is a matter of education IMHMO

"Las mujeres son como las traducciones: las buenas no son fieles, y las fieles no son buenas."

Packoderm - 1-23-2007 at 10:42 PM

You can be American (U.S.) yet not be a gringo if you're Chicano, Asian American, African American, etc. Ultimately, it's a racial thing.

David K - 1-23-2007 at 11:09 PM

Ferna, as this is an English language forum, I was typing for English readers, what I hear... two words: norte & Americano (when Mexicans are refering to people from the USA)... In Spanish, it may be one word in spelling, 'norteamericano'. You do seem to concur that no Mexican citizen calls themself a 'North American'... But always a 'Mexican'... verdad?

abreojos - 1-24-2007 at 03:24 AM

Does anybody know the difference between a Mexi-can and a Mexi-can't? That's what I call my wife when she is peeed at me and tells me to go home Gringo? Which is just about every other day by the way... :rolleyes:

fdt - 1-24-2007 at 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Ferna, as this is an English language forum, I was typing for English readers, what I hear... two words: norte & Americano (when Mexicans are refering to people from the USA)... In Spanish, it may be one word in spelling, 'norteamericano'. You do seem to concur that no Mexican citizen calls themself a 'North American'... But always a 'Mexican'... verdad?

Yes I concure even though if you were to dig deeper into it, Canadians and Mexicans are refered to as Norteamericanos. For that you can use this link were you can see that it is utilized but very rarely http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norteamericano
Norteamericano is one word, not two, if it all boils down to the way you hear it because it's an English speaking board, then why post a thread to correct misspelled names? http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=21953#pid1977...
Isn't this the fun of learning ? :yes:

fdt - 1-24-2007 at 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by morgaine7
These distinctions are interesting and very useful to know. Thanks FDT!! I am hoping I will never need to actually pronounce "estadounidensa"!! So far I've encountered it only on official forms.
:rolleyes:

Kate

They are called Gentilicios here is a link http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_de_gentilicios_ordenada_a...

fdt - 1-24-2007 at 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Packoderm
You can be American (U.S.) yet not be a gringo if you're Chicano, Asian American, African American, etc. Ultimately, it's a racial thing.

Those are gentilicios Xenofobos

Nortes

MrBillM - 1-24-2007 at 10:45 AM

Setting aside the quibbling over "one word or two" (which seems really silly on a forum plagued with misspellings in both languages), there is no question that the designations "Americano" and "Norteamericano" are COMMONLY used by MEXICANS to refer to those of us in the USA. In FACT, my FM3 refers to me as a "Norteamericano". A Governmental stamp of Approval ?

Speaking of Gringos and "Ethnic" generalizations among Mexicans, years ago when a German Friend was visiting with his Filipina wife, a Mexcan friend asked me if she were a "China" ? When I replied, No, she's Filipina". He gave a dismissive wave of his hand and said " Ah, it's the same thing".

Cypress - 1-24-2007 at 10:52 AM

Jeez? :?:

Been called all sorts of names.

Who gives a flying whoopie-doo if there's no intent to insult or demean. :lol: