BajaNomad

Los Toros

Oso - 2-1-2007 at 08:18 PM

Those opposed to this subject, please move on to another thread. I respect your views, but they are unlikely to add anything of interest to this particular discussion.

I was fortunate enough to see "El Juli" in Mexicali a couple of years ago and hope to do so again this year. Maybe, just maybe , it will coincide with his facing bull #2,000.

Julian Lopez Escobar, aka "El Juli" or "El Joven Maestro", was born in Madrid 10/3/82 and stuck his first (young) bull at the age of 10.

Now, at the ripe old age of 25, he has "fought" 1,952 bulls and killed 1,929 with one stroke of the sword, been awarded 1.460 ears, 56 tails, and has been carried out of the arena on the shoulders of adoring fans 485 times.

At the moment I am not in touch with the records of such legends as "Manolete", but I believe El Juli may now be the "greatest", even surpassing the hero of my generation, "El Cordobes".

BTW, the great Manolete was once asked in an interview which part of the faena was his favorite. His reply was "The part of the drag mules".

vagabond - 2-1-2007 at 08:26 PM

OLE

fdt - 2-1-2007 at 08:58 PM

Did'nt know you were an aficionado taurino (bullfight fan). I would'nt mind going to Calafia with you. As a kid a friend and I were always practicing and we used to go to santa veronica to the novilladas that Bustamante used to have and to many other places also, my first novillo I fought was at Cortijo San Jose in PLayas de Tijuana, me vesti de luces (dressed) in La Paz in '73 at a festival at the estadio and jumped as an espontaneo at the Toreo de Tijuana (me sacaron por arrastre :lol: ).
True story:
The first time we went to Calafia, to see Cruz Flores, we took the bus from Tijuana and when we got to Mexicali we asked a cab driver to take us to the bull ring, he agreed, drove us for about 15 minutes and droped us off at the main entrance to Calafia. At the end of the bullfight we asked someone how far the bus terminal was and were we could find a cab to get there, he looks at us and sais "No jodan", para que quieren taxi para cruzar la calle (why would you need a cab to cross the street). We came to find out that the bus terminal is right across the street from the bull ring and the pin..che taxista just took us for a ride :fire: :lol:

bancoduo - 2-2-2007 at 07:48 AM

I missed this guy. Haven't been to a fight in 10 yr's. His kill record is unbelievable. What is his style?

Where is the post fight HOT spot in Mexicali?:biggrin:

TMW - 2-2-2007 at 07:57 AM

I've never been to a bull fight. I have been told that vasoline or similar substance is rubbed over the eyes of the bull to blurr his vision before he enters the ring. Is this true.

fdt - 2-2-2007 at 09:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TW
I've never been to a bull fight. I have been told that vasoline or similar substance is rubbed over the eyes of the bull to blurr his vision before he enters the ring. Is this true.

:?: Not true

vandenberg - 2-2-2007 at 09:58 AM

About 20 years ago I went to a bullfight in La Paz. Fighting was from horseback. One black small, but very feisty and fast ,little bull gored one horse and then proceeded to knock another one down. They couldn't get that brave little bugger out of there fast enough. Fricking cowards.

Cypress - 2-2-2007 at 10:57 AM

Pompano.:DThanks for the lesson regarding "Manolete". :yes::D Will watch the movie. :yes:

tripledigitken - 2-2-2007 at 02:55 PM

Pompano,

When the subject of bullfighing comes up I always think of the movie "Blood and Sand", do you suppose the lead in that movie (played by Tyrone Powers) was fashioned after Manolete?

My stepfather was a big fan of Bullfighting and took me to see that movie. As a 10 year old my parents took me to see Jose Greco (the famous Spanish dancer) as well.

To this day I love Flaminco Music, but never have been to a Bullfight. I must take the plunge and take in a fight sometime in Tijuana. Have you been to Chiki Jai in Tijuana? Lots of Bullfight memrobilia in that restaurant.

Ken

Oso - 2-2-2007 at 05:31 PM

Welcome back Pompano! What have you done with Summanus?:lol:

As for the vaseline, I seriously doubt it because it doesn't make any sense. Blurred vision would tend to make the bull's actions somewhat unpredictable and if I were standing out there, inches away from those horns, that's the last thing I'd want. The ability to predict exactly what the bull will do is the key to survival and the only way it's even possible for a 150 pound human with a sword to take on a half ton of muscle and horns.

As for El Juli's kill ratio, there are only three reasons for the 29 bulls he did not kill: Most were at corridas in Portugal where killing the bull is not part of the tradition. A very few exhibited such extraordinary courage that the crowd demanded the "indulto" and they were retired to stud. The rest he was unable to finish off because he was being carried out of the ring on a stretcher at the time.

[Edited on 2-3-2007 by Oso]

bancoduo - 2-2-2007 at 06:26 PM

I was referring to the one stroke kills. So; I guess what you are saying is, he killed all the bulls he was able too with one stroke. Kinda hard to believe.:rolleyes:

Oso - 2-2-2007 at 06:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bancoduo
I was referring to the one stroke kills. So; I guess what you are saying is, he killed all the bulls he was able too with one stroke. Kinda hard to believe.:rolleyes:


Not necessarily. Most of them, yes, but some may have hit bone and required a second stroke. However, to my knowledge he has never f'd up the estocada so badly as to be booed out of the ring, requiring someone else to finish off the bull. I have seen this happen to lesser lights. I may have misspoken when I said "one stroke", I'll do some research on this.

[Edited on 2-3-2007 by Oso]

bancoduo - 2-2-2007 at 06:53 PM

Has he ever had an aviso:?:

Oso - 2-2-2007 at 07:00 PM

Don't know for sure, but I doubt it. Here, check it out yourself:

http://www.eljuli.com/index.asp

fdt

Baja Bernie - 2-3-2007 at 12:28 PM

If I ever write another Baja Book your Bull story with the Taxi ride will sure be in it....................Love the way you write.....you build the story as a bull fighter builds the tensions within the ring.......

Pompano, thanks for fessing up on the Thunder.............He was a wonderful character.

I don't really care for bull fights..............but then I don't care for many spectator sports..........if I can't do it I just don't want to sit and watch even if I have a beer in hand.

Oso, great thread!

Just stole the whole post for my files!

[Edited on 2-3-2007 by Baja Bernie]

Oso - 2-3-2007 at 03:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Bernie
.....if I can't do it I just don't want to sit and watch even if I have a beer in hand.
[Edited on 2-3-2007 by Baja Bernie]


Does that apply to porn, Bern?:lol::lol:

[Edited on 2-3-2007 by Oso]

Oso - 2-3-2007 at 03:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by fdt
Did'nt know you were an aficionado taurino (bullfight fan). I would'nt mind going to Calafia with you.


Ferna,
I'm not sure when Lopez will be back, probably not untill Fall, if then. There are two corridas in March. One on the 12th and a cheaper one on the 26th. They don't say they are novilladas but I'd guess at least the second one is.

On the 12th is Jorge Gutierrez, Alejandro Amaya and Jose Mauricio with bulls from San Jose.

On the 26th is Teodoro Gomez, Alfredo Rios "El Conde", and Israel Tellez with bulls from Cerro Viejo. They promise to have a "duelo de banderillas". Prices are sumamente razonable, so maybe no "stars"?

Know any of these guys?

fdt - 2-3-2007 at 03:33 PM

Yep Alejandro Amaya is Jorge Hank's son

fdt - 2-3-2007 at 03:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oso
Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Bernie
.....if I can't do it I just don't want to sit and watch even if I have a beer in hand.
[Edited on 2-3-2007 by Baja Bernie]


Does that apply to porn, Bern?:lol::lol:

[Edited on 2-3-2007 by Oso]

He said he had a beer in his hand, so it would not apply :lol:

Oso - 2-3-2007 at 03:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by fdt
Quote:
Originally posted by Oso
Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Bernie
.....if I can't do it I just don't want to sit and watch even if I have a beer in hand.
[Edited on 2-3-2007 by Baja Bernie]


Does that apply to porn, Bern?:lol::lol:

[Edited on 2-3-2007 by Oso]

He said he had a beer in his hand, so it would not apply :lol:


Depends on which hand...:lol:

fdt - 2-3-2007 at 05:38 PM

:lol::lol::lol:

Oso

Baja Bernie - 2-3-2007 at 06:17 PM

Just call me a two fisted drinker.:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

bancoduo - 2-3-2007 at 06:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by fdt
Yep Alejandro Amaya is Jorge Hank's son
why did he change his name? Did he attend the famous "Arellano Felix bullfight school" East of Tecate?:cool:

Iflyfish - 2-3-2007 at 11:30 PM

My first bull fight was in Tijuana, El Cordobes no less! I had no idea who he was or for that matter much at all about bull fights. That day is etched in my memory like few others. I saw a Barishnakov, a ballet, a drama of high order. The man was magnificent. Walked on his knees, with his back to the bull, cape dragging on the ground. The crowd went NUTS!!!

I have been to many fights since that great day. None have matched the shear beauty of that day.

I would love to see El Juli. Any idea when we may be able to see him work?

Iflyfish

Oso - 2-4-2007 at 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
I would love to see El Juli. Any idea when we may be able to see him work?
Iflyfish


Maybe soon. He's in Mexico. Leon tomorrow and D.F. on the 17th. I don't see a billing for TJ or Mexicali yet, but if you check the website I mentioned from time to time, it may come up.

BTW, Mauricio is on the bill with him in Leon. El Juli was witness for Amaya when he turned pro. Amaya just cut 3 ears on Friday. Calafia on the 12th should be pretty good, although I might wait for Julian.

[Edited on 2-4-2007 by Oso]

Cypress - 2-4-2007 at 03:03 PM

Worked at an auction/stockyard. :yes: Got pretty wild at times.:bounce: Loading cattle into double-decker 18-wheelers, had to be on your toes. Some folks weren't, they got nailed.:( Saw one guy hit by a Santa Gertruda bull, hit him in the back, tossed him about 10' high. Plenty of close calls.:D Have a lot of respect for bullfighters.:bounce:

FARASHA - 2-4-2007 at 03:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Worked at an auction/stockyard. :yes: Got pretty wild at times.:bounce: Loading cattle into double-decker 18-wheelers, had to be on your toes. Some folks weren't, they got nailed.:( Saw one guy hit by a Santa Gertruda bull, hit him in the back, tossed him about 10' high. Plenty of close calls.:D Have a lot of respect for bullfighters.:bounce:

Don't want to highjack the thread !
BUT this just reminds me!!
Ever been at Macy's on SALE openings? Comes close to it!:lol: Especially with those Santa Gertruda type customers -:biggrin:

As to Bullfights - yes it is somehow like ballett, the choreography, the bodywork,......
In Spain I heard they do not hurt the bull anymore - no killing. Anyone infos on that? >f<

bancoduo - 2-4-2007 at 03:29 PM

Not yet! they are going to wait until after the 2008 elections. Sound familiar? Spain like lots of other countries must be run by a bunch of Ivy league educated technocrats:no:

Oso - 2-4-2007 at 03:51 PM

Sure you're not thinking of Portugal?

FARASHA - 2-4-2007 at 04:26 PM

OSO - could be, am not certain. No bullfights in Europe except Spain/ Portugal. Not of high interest within EU, thats why there wasn't much coverage on that.
I think Hemingway was the last person who brought it to the peoples attention ( through his book), it has fallen back into dusk since. >f<

bancoduo - 2-4-2007 at 04:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oso
Sure you're not thinking of Portugal?
It's Spain. Kinda hard to believe.

Oso - 2-4-2007 at 08:55 PM

"Narbona said she wanted to follow the example of neighbouring
Portugal, where the bull is not killed in front of spectators, but
taken to a slaughterhouse after the bullfight."

Well, apparently there is such a proposal, and the region of Catalonia appears poised to ban the corrida altogether.

The destiny of 99% of the bulls will not change. They will still become hamburger, just not in front of the public. This will render the indulto meaningless and selection of the 1% saved for breeding will be up to the rancher.

FARASHA - 2-4-2007 at 11:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bancoduo
Quote:
Originally posted by Oso
Sure you're not thinking of Portugal?
It's Spain. Kinda hard to believe.


banco, Oso:
:?: Were did you find the info ? Would like to get an update now also. >f<

Oso - 2-5-2007 at 06:20 PM

Dogpile, Google or Google.mx

The squarecircle - 2-6-2007 at 01:50 AM

Greetings All,

Last century, circa 1958-9, some big name toreador and one very macho toro gigantesco squared off in the old fighting arena in Distrito Federal. The will to survive, this challenge to live, was the total focus of all in attendance on that very hot afternoon in a huge overpacked stadium. This life/death match is a really really big happening in old Mexico. The cape work and artistic passes all performed with classic perfection went on and on for a long time. Very classic ballet craft like in execution. All this action had the fans on their feet and highly agitated. This mass of humanity very quickly was of one mind and with a deafening roar shouting out a single word in unison --------- INDULTO >>> INDULTO >>> INDULTO >>> INDULTO >>> INDULTO SI >>> INDULTO SI >>> All action in the center of the fighting ring stopped with the TORO and the MATADOR looking around at the screaming crowd as if seeking approval for their bravado!!! INDULTO>> INDULTO >>> INDULTO >>> INDULTO >>> INDULTO SI >>> INDULTO SI SI SI SI SI >>> INDULTO >>> INDULTO SI >>>INDULTO SI >>> INDULTO SI>>INDULTO >>> INDULTO >>>The roar of the crowd was ear shattering with emotion absolutly overflowing. That horde of hysterical bulfighting affectionados would except nothing less than a full and unconditioned pardon and immediate release of that valiant animal magnifico. Never again have I seen such one minded emotion over a sports event. Could it be bullfighting is much more than just a sports event??? Never went to another bullfight even though that bullring was only 3/4 miles from my house and in clear view from my bedroom window. I witnessed the best and did not want to be disappointed by one more sloppy pee poor kill!!!!!

Best Regards, sq

Have you ever been to a Bullfight

The squarecircle - 3-12-2008 at 11:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by The squarecircle
Greetings All,

Last century, circa 1958-9, some big name toreador and one very macho toro gigantesco squared off in the old fighting arena in Distrito Federal. The will to survive, this challenge to live, was the total focus of all in attendance on that very hot afternoon in a huge overpacked stadium. This life/death match is a really really big happening in old Mexico. The cape work and artistic passes all performed with classic perfection went on and on for a long time. Very classic ballet craft like in execution. All this action had the fans on their feet and highly agitated. This mass of humanity very quickly was of one mind and with a deafening roar shouting out a single word in unison --------- INDULTO >>> INDULTO >>> INDULTO >>> INDULTO >>> INDULTO SI >>> INDULTO SI >>> All action in the center of the fighting ring stopped with the TORO and the MATADOR looking around at the screaming crowd as if seeking approval for their bravado!!! INDULTO>> INDULTO >>> INDULTO >>> INDULTO >>> INDULTO SI >>> INDULTO SI SI SI SI SI >>> INDULTO >>> INDULTO SI >>>INDULTO SI >>> INDULTO SI>>INDULTO >>> INDULTO >>>The roar of the crowd was ear shattering with emotion absolutly overflowing. That horde of hysterical bulfighting affectionados would except nothing less than a full and unconditioned pardon and immediate release of that valiant animal magnifico. Never again have I seen such one minded emotion over a sports event. Could it be bullfighting is much more than just a sports event??? Never went to another bullfight even though that bullring was only 3/4 miles from my house and in clear view from my bedroom window. I witnessed the best and did not want to be disappointed by one more sloppy pee poor kill!!!!!

Best Regards, sq
>>>> Yes, I have witnessed numerous Toreos in Mexico City.

The squarecircle - 3-12-2008 at 11:54 PM

Greetings All, >>>> This last post of mine was to appear in the "General Baja Discussion" section under the heading >> "Have you ever seen a Bullfight" I apologise for the the posting confusion here. >>>>>>>> Best Regards, sq.