Osprey - 2-25-2007 at 04:25 PM
First, I envy all the folks who have had the chance to go see the whales. It is obviously a once in a lifetime event.
Most of the time I'm a hopeless romantic (not as mushy as Mike H but pretty bad sometimes) but on the whales songs the romantics lose me.
I've studied on this a bit and science tells me (many scientists agree on this) that the songs are probably all about krill; the 89 species of krill
the whales can eat. All the songs begin with the names given the tastiest krill and then go on, ad nauseum, about flavor, texture, size and other
attributes humans can not guess at. Whales are very smart so the songs are complex, compelling, at times passionate, perhaps evoke argument about
preferences at levels we cannot dream of.
In the next couple of months I plan to download some whalesongs, burn some of my own following what I think they are trying to communicate, have the
tapes played by Scripps or Woods Hole or somebody. I'll get back to you.
Iflyfish - 2-25-2007 at 05:01 PM
“the songs are probably all about krill; the 89 species of krill the whales can eat”
O,
So…. not sagas, but restaurant reviews? A verbal Gourmet Magazine? Recipes for krill with seaweed? “Have You Served Your Guests Krill aw Gratin?”
“Next Time Brighten The Bay With Scammon’s Krill Chowder, a Real Killer.” “A Killer Krill Antipasto that You Can Make!” “Don’t Let The Porpoises Have
All The Fun!, serve your guests ambergris krill, the new killer entrée!” I am crushed, my illusions destroyed. I sensed in them so much noble
motivation and they turn out to be a bunch of overweight gastronomes! Tell me it ain’t so.
Iflyfishwhennotlisteningtowhalesagas
whale song
tehag - 2-25-2007 at 05:59 PM
Source, please, for the whale/song krill theory???
Iflyfish - 2-25-2007 at 08:21 PM
In the nineteen seventies there were scientists who were recording Humpback Whale vocalizations. There was speculation, due to the complexity and
repitition of the songs and the minor variations that occur each year that the Humpbacks might be transmitting an oral history of their species. I
include in this post a copy of a more recent study using different methodology involving research on the songs of the Humpback. You will see that they
too found language structures similar to those found in humans. The jury is still out on what these magnificent animals are talking about, Osprey and
I were having a lively debate as to our own projections on these amazing creatures. The Gray whales produce vocalizations that are of a lower
frequency than humans can hear. You will find hours of entertainment doing a Google search on Humpback Whale Songs.
Enjoy
Dolphins and Whales, Language Acquisition, Animals, Sea LIfe, Marine Biology, Memory
Howard Hughes Medical Institute
March 24, 2006
Warbling Whales Speak A Language All Their Own
Science Daily — The songs of the humpback whale are among the most complex in the animal kingdom. Researchers have now mathematically confirmed that
whales have their own syntax that uses sound units to build phrases that can be combined to form songs that last for hours.
Until now, only humans have demonstrated the ability to use such a hierarchical structure of communication. The research, published online in the
March 2006 issue of the Journal of the Acoustical Society of America, offers a new approach to studying animal communication, although the authors do
not claim that humpback whale songs meet the linguistic rigor necessary for a true language.
"Humpback songs are not like human language, but elements of language are seen in their songs," said Ryuji Suzuki, a Howard Hughes Medical Institute
(HHMI) predoctoral fellow in neuroscience at Massachusetts Institute of Technology and first author of the paper.
With limited sight and sense of smell in water, marine mammals are more dependent on sound—which travels four times faster in water than air—to
communicate. For six months each year, all male humpback whales in a population sing the same song during mating season. Thought to attract females,
the song evolves over time.
Suzuki and co-authors John Buck and Peter Tyack applied the tools of information theory—a mathematical study of data encoding and transmission—to
analyze the complex patterns of moans, cries, and chirps in the whales' songs for clues to the information being conveyed. Buck is an electrical
engineer who specializes in signal processing and underwater acoustics at the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth, and Tyack is a biologist at Woods
Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts.
Suzuki, who began the project as an electrical engineering undergraduate at the University of Massachusetts, Dartmouth, worked with Buck and Tyack to
develop a computer program to break down the elements of the whale's song and assign an abstract symbol to each of those elements. Suzuki wanted to
see if he could design a computer program that enabled scientists to classify the structure of the whales' songs.
He used the program to analyze structural characteristics of the humpback songs recorded in Hawaii. To measure a song's complexity, Suzuki analyzed
the average amount of information conveyed per symbol. He then asked human observers who had no previous knowledge of the structure of the whale songs
to classify them in terms of complexity, redundancy, and predictability. The computer-generated model and the human observers agreed that the songs
are hierarchical, confirming a theory first proposed by biologists Roger Payne and Scott McVay in 1971.
Suzuki said that information theory also enabled the researchers to determine how much information can be conveyed in a whale song. Despite the
"human-like" use of hierarchical syntax to communicate, Suzuki and his colleagues found that whale songs convey less than one bit of information per
second. By comparison, humans speaking English generate 10 bits of information for each word spoken. "Although whale song is nothing like human
language, I wouldn't be surprised if some marine mammals have the ability to communicate in a complex way," said Suzuki. "Given that the underwater
environment is very different from our world, it is not surprising that they would communicate in rather a different way from land mammals."
The structure of the humpback whale song is repetitive and rigid. The whales repeat unique phrases made up of short and long segments to craft a song.
There are multiple layers, or scales, of repetition, denoted as periodicities. One scale is made up of six units, while a longer one consists of
180-400 units. The combined periodicities give the song its hierarchical structure.
Suzuki compared his new technique for animal communication research with more traditional models, such as the first order Markov model that is used to
analyze bird songs, which are often shorter and simpler in structure than humpback whale songs. The Markov model proved inadequate for the whale
song's complex structure.
Information theory, in contrast, proved perfect for analyzing humpback whale songs because it provided a quantitative analysis of the complexity and
structure of the songs. "Information theory was the right choice because it allows one to study the structure of humpback songs without knowing what
they mean," said Suzuki.
"I hope that knowing the hierarchical structure in humpback songs will inform research in other fields, such as evolutionary biology," said Suzuki.
The technique he developed is already being used by a postdoctoral fellow in Buck's laboratory to analyze recently recorded songs of humpback whales
from Australia.
Note: This story has been adapted from a news release issued by Howard Hughes Medical Institute.
Iflyfish
SDRonni - 2-26-2007 at 09:03 AM
DH and I spent ten days in Maui last month. We stayed on Maalaea Bay, close to the whale sanctuary where the moms come to give birth. The antics of
these huge humpbacks was incredible to watch all day long! Their "songs" were easily heard while snorkeling....someday I hope to get to see the greys
in Baja...
Iflyfish - 2-26-2007 at 12:25 PM
Wonderful experience being in the presence of these great creatures.
Go for it!
Iflyfish
FARASHA - 2-26-2007 at 02:18 PM
Whale songs - that was my best experience, while diving out of La paz area, couple years ago. I just stopped, would sink to the shallow bottom, lay
there on my back AND LISTEN...AWESOME! >f<
Cypress - 2-26-2007 at 02:35 PM
Yea, Those Humpbacks have a "haunting song".
wilderone - 2-26-2007 at 02:48 PM
This sums up what scientists are all about :
Once upon a time, there was a scientist studying frogs. He set the frog on a table, cut off its legs, and commanded it to jump. The frog just sat
there. Again, louder, the scientist commanded “jump.” Next he yelled even louder, “jump.” The frog remained still. The scientist wrote in his
study journal: “When removing a frog’s legs, a frog becomes deaf.”
danaeb - 2-26-2007 at 08:38 PM
Osprey and Iflyfish
Two of my favorite nomad writers. I came across this journal of a diver's encounter with a blue whale off the coast of San Diego I thought you might
appreciate:
http://www.howardhall.com/stories/bluewhalesoup.html
Enjoy!
FARASHA - 2-27-2007 at 10:49 AM
danaeb - Thank you - this is a great Link, and I enjoyed the story >f<
Whale song
tehag - 2-27-2007 at 05:23 PM
National Geographic, January, 2007 has an article on humpback singing and other behavior that is a good read. Good pics, too.
Crusoe - 2-27-2007 at 06:09 PM
Danaeb.........Thank you so much for sharing Howard Halls website with us for all to enjoy. I have seen many big blues up close at sea from the deck
of a small sailboat and it is an expierience you can never forget each time it happens. They can be very curious, and they let you know that they know
that you know them too. They are almost mystical. Point Conception is a spot they seem to like as well. Humbleing!!!
danaeb - 2-27-2007 at 06:52 PM
It must be whale season. I was amazed to see Ken Bondy's gray whale photos today, taken on a trip with guess who? Howard Hall. Ken is amazing.
Every time I think I've seen the best of his photos, he shows me a close-up of a whale's eye that he shot on the the fly and I'm blown away all over
again.
Dana
David K - 2-27-2007 at 06:56 PM
Camping on the beach near Punta San Francisquito Resort, I was pleasantly awakened by whale song in the middle of the night... GREAT!
Wiles - 2-27-2007 at 07:12 PM
David K..
What????