BajaNomad - Matomi - Prez Day

Matomi - Prez Day

surfer jim - 2-1-2004 at 09:50 AM

I was wondering who has plans to go and what type of vehicles they will travel with....

Also how many have access to a CB radio for the trip....

Info note...it appears that any info about the SCORE race is from 2003 and may not reflect this years route...

I will be going in a Chevy 4wd full size pickup...with CB radio....

Running gear...

Mexray - 2-2-2004 at 12:54 AM

89 Bronco, CB, XM-Radio, GPS, Pacifico Powered, we'll be pulling our on/off hwy (El Burro - XLT) camp/chuck wagon trailer.

TMW - 2-2-2004 at 08:06 AM

Toyota 4x4 with a XR250 spare tire.

tunaeater - 2-2-2004 at 07:10 PM

I will be on a 99 YZ 400 and my buddy will be on a KTM 520EXC. My dad was going to ride his XR 350 but he jacked up his hand(now in a cast) over the weekend while we were ridding near plaster city west. However he is still going on the trip. He will drive his old tropper (4wd) he leaves down at his house.
I'm looking forward to meeting everyone. I've been a part of Amigos and now nomads and have never been to a BBBB or a viva baja party. In fact the only person I met from the two boards was Desert Rat and boy did we have a great time in Mexicali. So I'll see ya guys soon.. Paul

[Edited on 09-03-2003 by tunaeater]

Packoderm - 2-2-2004 at 07:22 PM

I would love to join you guys and finally meet some of you face to face. However, the wife and I are taking a four day Green Tortoise trip to Death Valley. (The trip was an X-mas present from my folks.)

I have only met Beach Bob (who wouldn't know me from Adam) and 4baja. (I recognize him from one of David K's photo spreads.) I hope you guys have a great time and that the weather smiles for you. (and us) I would like David K to just one time mention my name as he opens a Pacifico. Well, Packoderm isn't my real name, but you know what I mean. Have fun.

Bob H - 2-3-2004 at 08:26 AM

My wife, Audrey, and I are going to try to make it. 2001 F250 Superduty 4x4 w/Lance Cabover. Looking forward to meeting the baja nuts that will be there too!
Will leave San Diego on Friday, camp overnight near El Centro and head down to Nuevo Mazatlan Sat morning early, maybe stopping to grab a bite to eat in SF.
Bob H :tumble:

matomi

sanfelipebob - 2-4-2004 at 10:34 AM

i would not take a lance camper to matomi

Bob H - 2-4-2004 at 11:54 AM

We are dropping the camper at Neuvo Mazatlan where we will be camping.
Bob H

TMW - 2-6-2004 at 08:01 AM

David what time are you planning on leaving Sunday morning for Matomi?
My wife can't come but my brother Bill is and we're going down Saturday below Puertocitos to the El Volcan wash. We'll stop by your camp either going or coming back to try and meet up on Sat. Otherwise we'll see you and the others Sunday morning.

Tom Wimberly

surfer jim - 2-6-2004 at 10:01 AM

Looks like Race info will be up later this weekend or early next week so we can plan exact route....

I plan on going down Friday morning from Orange County....through Mexacali.....

You guys have fun!!!!!!!!!!!

Me No - 2-10-2004 at 10:03 AM

The map on Score's website is last year's course and the 2004 course has yet to be posted.

I was told about the "Matomi expedition" occurring this weekend up/down Matomi wash. It's plain fawking stupid for ************** a caravan on the known race course, if the course traverses Matomi.

Here is what Sal Fish at Score has to say:

"The Tecate Score San Felipe 250 Race Course is no different than the Indianapolis 500 course or any other professionally organized racing event. The privilege to use this land has been paid for by Score International and the Official Racing Entrants of the Tecate Score San Felipe 250. The fact that the race course is not enclosed does not mean that spectators have the right to be on this official racecourse between Feb 14th through Feb 28th, 2004. PLEASE, IF YOU ARE NOT ENTERED IN THIS RACE, STAY OFF THE COURSE!"

Although not enforceable and the weekend warriors (non racers) will come out in droves *******************************

:lol:

[Edited on 2-10-2004 by BajaNomad]

sounds like a good possibility of a

capt. mike - 2-10-2004 at 11:57 AM

"Darwin" award about to happen??

TMW - 2-10-2004 at 01:18 PM

Score has the map up now for 2004.
It runs down Matomi like last year.

Don Jorge - 2-10-2004 at 01:33 PM

Could you ask Sal Fish if I could use his road for just a few minutes on the 15th?
And also, would he mind if I removed any signs that might still be up from previous races, or is it still illegal to remove them?
Thanks!

Me No - 2-10-2004 at 02:21 PM

You can do whatever you want to Don Jorge, but if you decide to run up, down, or whatever in the Matomi wash between feb 15 and 28, there is a good chance you will get a trophy truck enema. You make the choice.

The fact is the people of baja benefit financially from these races, and judging by the amount of "locals" who come out to see them, there is some physical enjoyment as well. So if you don't like the idea of limiting the use, of a few remote streatches of dirt road, take it up with the governor of baja norte. :lol:

TMW - 2-10-2004 at 06:45 PM

Me No, the fact of the matter is the matomi trip members were waiting for Score to put their map out before deciding on how we would go. Score pays to put the race on. In Mexico Score doesn't pay to close areas open to the public. Following a race course in the direction of the race even during a Score race is allowed under their rules. Our intent is not to cause problems for Sal or the pre-runners, that's why I emailed Score asking that the map be posted before Wednesday or Thursday, so we would know which way the course runs. I don't want to turn this into a P*****g contest, then again I could ask Tony Tellier to ruin it for everyone. For the Matomi group that's a reference to the Baja 1000 and Jeff Cummings at BFG which I can explain in San Felipe.

[Edited on 2-11-2004 by TW]

Safety is a concern

Desertbull - 2-10-2004 at 07:15 PM

We could go on and on back and forth about the race course, politics, SCORE and Baja...the bottom line is...why RISK anyone's life when you ABSOLUTELY KNOW that there will be serious race traffic on the route you plan to take. Simply put, it makes no sense whatsoever. Yes, you could make it out unscathed but why risk any of your AMIGO's lives with race vehicles traveling at 100 mph...your trip is for fun and adventure...not to contend with 75-100 pre-runners hauling ass in Baja...

With over 250 entries already signed up for this race, I have spoken with countless race teams who will be running the course from 2/14 until contingency on 2/27.

Be careful.

Desertbull

[Edited on 2-11-2004 by Desertbull]

TMW - 2-10-2004 at 07:23 PM

Safety should be our concern and when we meet I'm sure it will be discussed and what we should do.

Mike Humfreville - 2-10-2004 at 07:59 PM

I think we should wait and see the choice of the race mgmt and then make a decision. In the mean time it seems reasonable to think of other explorations the Matomi group could make in that same area, avoiding roads that have a conflict of interest. There are lots of interesting things to do. The Matomi trip was a long one and with as many or more as the last trip maybe we would overwhelm some of us. The fun starts in Baja when we get more intimate with her in the sense of digging deeper into a specific area and learning the geology and history, with getting to know the locals and whatever. I'm certain that if the race is in competition for space on the Matomi road we can find a way around the conflict. I propose we wait and see. The fun of these get-togethers is as much social as exploratory.

On the other hand I resent the Me No attitude which comes off like he owns the damn road. Cooperation is cool and that comes across in words, writen, spoken or shouted. A little consideration usually encourages most of us to cooperate. He (she?) certainly didn't.

Me No - 2-10-2004 at 09:08 PM

Mike, resent if you like, but the words were not mine. It is a repost from another site, which is a compilation itself. I don't own the roads, or claim too, but the race will run down Matomi wash. Be careful.

Pronounce Minnow in spanish and you will know who Me-no is. For some reason that has escaped many for so long. :lol:

westy - 2-10-2004 at 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
Score pays to put the race on. In Mexico Score doesn't pay to close areas open to the public.

[Edited on 2-11-2004 by TW]

They can't close the areas. It's been tried.
A logistical nightmare. It's a big reason why some other promoters have pulled out of Baja, BITD being one of them.
.
.
Personally, I feel I have as much right to use a portion of the course for my own recreation, if I damn please. (Commen sense would dictate me not to use it on a race day). ..... I will, however put my 2 cents in. Please be extra careful and safe when near the course. Thats all.

David K - 2-10-2004 at 10:02 PM

TW, I appreciate the information. This excursion was proposed many weeks before SCORE publicly picked the course route. To ensure safety, I was willing (and wanted) to go the SAME direction as the course did, using Parral Canyon for either going to or returning from Matomi Canyon.

Unless SCORE has a new policy, pre-running does NOT mean racing, at race speeds. It is for examining the course, making notes of turns or slow down areas, etc.

Naturally, the pre runners will likely be in vehicles that can be driven faster than our group of street legal 4X4s, but almost all of Arroyo Matomi is wide open with most of it a 'passing zone'.

TW, thanks again for your support. You remind me of the kind of people that used to be involved in off road racing, back when I was a Los Campeones pit captain and a Baja 1000 co-driver... It was a family sport and not just for the privilaged elite. Walker Evans was alway nice to talk to... regular folks.
When pre running, we never assumed the roads were ours to do what we wished (as this new generation seems to think). Local use traffic had the right of way. On race day only, did that change.

Our caravan will have a radio man in the back and I will have a radio in front. If or when a pre-runner approaches from the rear, we will happily pull off at the first place possible in any of the (few) narrow sections of the road we will be on. The majority of the Matomi wash road is wide and passing us will be no problem for them.

When we arrive at the Valle Chico road, after crossing the Sierra Santa Rosa in Canada el Parral, we will be just 8 miles north of Matomi Canyon.

This 8 miles on the Valle Chico road is the race course. Then it is 5.5 miles up Matomi canyon to the waterfall fed pool and the blue palms (this 5.5 mi. is not race course, a dead end road).
We return back to the Valle Chico road junction, but then we continue down Arroyo Matomi to Hwy. 5 (27 miles, race course).

If the concensous is to cancel seeing the Matomi canyon and oasis, we can turn aroung at Valle Chico and go back to the sulfur mine in Canada el Parral. No problem for me, I have been to Matomi many times. However, it would be a bummer to those who were looking forward to it.

Whatever we do on Sunday, it will be good, because we are amigos and we are in Baja!

Me No - 2-10-2004 at 10:07 PM

Westy, Its not just race day. Pre running will be open from Sat the 14 to the 28.

Score has paid to use this course. The racers have paid to enter the race. Don't pay with your life by being getting a case of the Dumb Ass just to prove its your right.

Mike Humfreville - 2-10-2004 at 10:08 PM

Me No,

Mystery solved. I actually thought you someone else from another board. I don't know who the person you quoted is, don't care, but it would be nice to have a dialog rather than be told to stay off the road. It doesn't make sense to compete with a race group but you're pal could adjust his (her?) attitude to discussion and logic rather than demands.

As I proposed, there are many other places the Matomi group could go or other routes to the same destination.

Thanks for the clarification.

TMW - 2-10-2004 at 11:31 PM

If it's decided to for-go the trip to the water falls, OK. But just to set the record straight, most pre-runners are not in a trophy truck running 100mph. In fact there are only a few places to go 100mph period and matomi wash ain't one of them. Most pre-runners are in everything from stock trucks to modified pre-runners to buggies to motorcycles and quads. And if I don't go to the water falls I'll be one of the pre-runners either in my truck or on my motorcycle along with some friends who are racing the race. David is right, pre-running is just that and all public roads are open. It's the guys going backwards on the course that you need to be concerned with and I'd bet that's what Sal was and is concerned with too. If you want to close the area off for future races, have a pre-runner kill a local rancher for example who was driving backwards on the course with his family. A similar situation happened in San Quintin in 89 during the Baja 1000 race and they didn't race thru there again until 98.

Desertbull - 2-11-2004 at 10:15 AM

TW,

I assume that you have loads of off-road racing experience. However, I must disagree with you sir. Would you like me to provide you photos of the trucks that the Trophy Truck teams pre-run with. Hello???? Do you think they are pre-running in stock trucks? Not generally..however, a few low-buck teams do but those are not the teams that will be out this early pre-running cuz they cannot afford to hang out in SF for 2 weeks before the race breaking parts on the same trucks they use for race day chasing etc. The guys out pre-running are the fully outfitted teams that are heading to SF from next weekend until the race weekend. At last years' race, I'm aware of one team that pre-ran the course over 10 times sometimes a twice a day...

Almost all of them have monster horsepower pre-runners..if you think they don't go down Matomi at 100 mph..then with respect, you are in La-La land. As a witness riding in the right seat..I can attest to this. Again, I merely post here to provide your group with what is going to happen on 2/14 and on.

I'm concerned only for your groups safety. The merits of whose course it is, who paid what is irrelevant. Westy is correct, go anywhere do anything, you certainly have the right to share Baja with the racers, but IMHO taking a caravan of full-size Ford trucks, Chevy Suburbans and a handful of Tacoma's into an area that is set to have pre-runners on it is senseless. Personally, I don't care...but professionally, I've seen horrific accidents as has Westy..and many times it's just because common sense was not used. If you were heading up there any other time...I wouldn't even being posting here.

Baja adventure is all about minimizing liabilities and using smart strategy, which many of you have proven time and time again that you utilize.

Having a radio guy in the front, back whatever is useless when you have the Truggy or Class 1 pre-runner coming up on you at 65-70 mph in the dirt. I can imagine your group poking along on the trail and Jesse Jones flying up on you in his 700 horsepower Pre-Runner .. what's he going to do? He'll pass you on the right side at speed course and race by you guys filleting your vehicles with baseball size and smaller rocks being thrown at your vehicles. Ohhhh... I forgot, you'll probably say it's part of the adventure. Trust me, that guy isn't going to stop and exchange phone numbers. Some of you know what it's like out there mixed in with the pre-runners, but to take others there who have no idea is not cool.

Most of these racers have raced this course in the past...the last thing they are going to do is stop and take notes. For Pete's Sake...it's already programmed into the latest GPS equipment mounted in their vehicles.

Thank god Robby Gordon will be busy at the Daytona 500 on Sunday and can't pre-run that particular day for the SF250. But the host of other racers will be there. We are chasing for several different race teams on Sat/Sun/Mon/Tue...Westy has our contact info for emergencies.

Best Regards,

Desertbull

David K - 2-11-2004 at 10:44 AM

So Tim, the SCORE rules or suggestions that pre-running is not to be done at race speeds is ignored or no longer the case?

When you come up to a slower vehicle, do you hit him first or allow him to pull over afer sounding your horn?

We would be going the same direction as the pre runners, not against. Why the need to scare people? Do the Mexican ranchers who use those roads have to stay off them for the next two weeks, as well? Only SCORE people can drive on these dirt roads for two weeks? How about using Mex. Hwy. 5, which part of it is the race course? Do racers have the right to stop all traffic on non- race days, like next Sunday?

I will not do anything unsafe and will follow the desires of this large group. But, I have been on roads with pre-runners and there is no terror involved... we just move out of the way and enjoy the noise.

Just seems you are being extra heavy in trying to prevent a bunch of folks from seeing Matomi? Thanks for your concern, however.

Desertbull - 2-11-2004 at 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
So Tim, the SCORE rules or suggestions that pre-running is not to be done at race speeds is ignored or no longer the case?

Are you kidding me? Gimme a break...what time warp are you living in?

When you come up to a slower vehicle, do you hit him first or allow him to pull over afer sounding your horn?

Honk...Honk...at 70-80 miles per hour...ROTFLMAO

We would be going the same direction as the pre runners, not against. Why the need to scare people?

My safety warning is not intended to SCARE anyone, merely to point out concerns for those that don't know..please disregard any information that you already know...which having been away from you for so long is I forgot that you know EVERYTHING

Do the Mexican ranchers who use those roads have to stay off them for the next two weeks, as well?

I'm fairly certain that ranchers who have resided in that area for decades have much experience in dealing with off-road racers as they have been part of this epic tradition for their entire lifetime. Pretty much just like you!

Only SCORE people can drive on these dirt roads for two weeks?

Ummmmm....let me think about this one for awhile. Maybe we will take a Mr. Kier Poll? Come on Mr. Kier are you trying to engage in debate....I already addressed this issue

How about using Mex. Hwy. 5, which part of it is the race course?

Just watch out for the Coyotes : )

Do racers have the right to stop all traffic on non- race days, like next Sunday?

This isn't about rights Mr. Kier. It's about common sense, that's all!

I will not do anything unsafe and will follow the desires of this large group.

As the definitive leader of this Matomi Wash trip, lead, guide and teach common sense to your amigos.

But, I have been on roads with pre-runners and there is no terror involved... we just move out of the way and enjoy the noise.

I did not describe terror...that's your perception Mr. Kier. I describe what is the fact...and standing or being parked next to the race course when Scotty Steinberger goes by prerunning ain't my cup of tea...I tend to get the hell out of the way at distance. It's predictable that you think like that.

Just seems you are being extra heavy in trying to prevent a bunch of folks from seeing Matomi?

I am regularly involved in leading groups of people on Baja Adventures. We regularly re-route our trips away from race course where teams are prerunning so that we minimize the risk of liability and protect life and property. Having recently witnessed a bad accident that occurred in Baja with people that used absolutely no common sense and being involved in the extraction process, it's not a fun thing to be part of. However, it needed to get done and we just handled it. My concern is for those in your group who have no clue about what they are about to get involved in because they've not been told. That's who I'm concerned about. The other veterano's like Mike H, Surfer Jim and the boys can handle themselves and they have much experience and know what to do...the others maybe not.

****************

Thanks for your concern, however.

You're Welcome!

[Edited on 2-11-2004 by Desertbull]

[Edited on 2-11-2004 by BajaNomad]

pre runner VS. actual race machine

capt. mike - 2-11-2004 at 03:51 PM

in 2000 i was part of crew/help for Phoenix based "silver spoon" racing's SF 250 effort in Pro Truck, which class they won by 10 minutes, major big fun, and my 1st real up close and personal look at this sport.

But when i 1st saw the machine they (co-Drivers Bob Shepard and Dan Ragland) were using to "test" the course, i thought i was looking at the real race vehicle!!

so I'm stupid, no biggie, they explained why the "practice" vehicle has incredible suspension and horse power too - so they can frickin HAUL ASS and simulate the race conditions BEFORE they actually do the race in the correct race truck, which is even more brutish!

He' s got maybe $200-250K in the race truck (Pro, not trophy) but well over a hundred grand just in the practice rig fer krissakes!! Test at high speed?? hell yes - these guys are RACERS. That's what they do!!

I wouldn't want to be out picknickin on the course while any of that's going on myself. I've met a lot of these drivers and owners, some are friends - they are wealthy often, type "A" and driven guys - they are not going to politely slow down for the casual tourist in the way.

The race effort is only a 3 week deal, you have 49 other weeks to go touring. why risk it?

my dos pesos...or centavos really! :tumble:

David K - 2-11-2004 at 04:01 PM

By your tone and your use of my last name, I see you have not changed and desired an end to your hostility as promissed me at Gonzaga Bay. A friend forwarded me the slide show containing a Viva Baja photo of me, you lifted and interspersed with a burro. That was after your peace offer at Brandi's. *******************************************

Come on Tim, I thought the kiddy stuff was over. This Matomi excursion was planned for over a month or two. I was aware SCORE might use Matomi, and that there COULD be some pre-runners when we visit the oasis. I did not say how we would drive in UNTIL the map was posted, so that we would be going the SAME direction as pre-runners (almost 2 weeks before the race).

Instead of cheering that more good Baja Internet people may see one of Baja's natural wonders, as you have been privilaged to see... You want to scare people by over-exaggerating the danger of a fast vehicle passing us. Keeping Baja as a 'private playground' for off road events (and not to be shared with four wheeling groups) is what Baja.net is about, as this proves

I will not be deprived because I have been there. But, you are depriving others who are driving hundreds of miles to see Matomi Canyon. On a 250 mile course we will be using only 15% of it for our excursion over a period of 1.5 to 2 hours, on one day... 2 weeks before the race.
What happens to the other people from San Felipe going to Matomi on this 3 day weekend who do not read this Internet board, or know about 'pre-running'. We won't be the only ones, if we go. Will you post danger signs on all road leaving San Felipe? Or, are we just lucky that we can read your posts.

It's up to the gang, I am happy most anywhere in Baja... It just smells like a Baja.net attempt to ruin an Amigo/Nomad get together like you all tried at the last Viva Party (I saw the email from **** ***). You guys think it's about me... wrong, Viva Baja and my web site is about Baja and the people who love Baja for all its things, not just dirt roads to drive 100 mph on. I thought you knew that Tim...

What happened to the Desert Bull who was happy and generous and helpfull to all amigos? I remember the Viva Baja T-Shirts you had made and gave to us in the Van, I remember the use of your Polaris (photos in my site) at Pta. Cabras, the gasoline blender margies... the one who bought me dinner after picking my brain on a route, that I made maps and GPS details for... Where is that Desert Bull? At Brandi's last Thanksgiving, you said you felt bad about taking that unkind photo of me with a telephoto lens that has been posted on Baja.net... You took nice pictures of my kids and I that day... It is inside you Tim, but they just won't let you make peace with me, I guess??? Are you allowed to say anything good about me? Was it not a Viva Baja sticker that caught your eye in El Cajon, on Amo's truck? Did you not enjoy your time at Viva Baja 3... the photos look like you had fun meeting everyone. You and your daughters seemed to enjoy going with me to Las Pintas... as I watch Camote's movie of that day.

Again, I am not trying to make this personal, no insults, no using your last name. Since you (almost) never post here, it seems like a big effort is being made to cancell the excursion, 4 days before it is happening. Why not until now with the dire warnings? We knew Matomi was being used for the race, just not which direction. As there is no other way into the canyon, and this is a 'Matomi Gang' reunion, it wasn't being considered going somewhere else. With all major area roads being used for pre-running... I don't know of a viable alternate... all the canyons will require using some of the race course. Matomi is the safest as no where would we need to go the wrong direction, thanks to Parral canyon.

Have a fun time driving fast, we will have a fun time driving normal. Take care of yourself, and once again thank you for the warning, even though you waited to the last minute. Maybe we just stay on the beach that day? Would you come with you gasoline blender and make some margies for all the disappointed Nomads? :yes:

[Edited on 2-12-2004 by BajaNomad]

Desertbull - 2-11-2004 at 04:44 PM

Mildly amusing to say the least.

I rarely visit your new home here at Nomad, but I saw a post on Baja.net that stated you were leading a group of people to Matomi over the first weekend of pre-running of the SF250.

I shook my head along with many others in disbelief.

I visited your home here at Nomad to verify. I felt fairly confident that in fact you would have much to say about my post.

However, AGAIN as stated so many times above, Mr. Kier, it was for the sake of safety and those that didn't know they were being lead down an active desert race course. It was not meant for you, but as expected you reacted in typical David K fashion.

AGAIN, I don't give a rats **** about any of those who know what's up with the race and prerunning activities surrounding it...I'm not depriving anyone of anything....I'm friggin' giving them the heads up about what's going on...and IMHO that it's a bad decision to play on an active race course...That's it!!!

I felt some stupid obiligation to post to those that believe every word you say as gospel...

***************************. Again, you are living you personal life on the Internet drumming up empathy ***********...I think sometimes you'll wake up and smell the roses...but the more I think, the more I realize...THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

Baja.net doesn't not care what the hell you or any of these other people are doing or where you go...For you to even insinuate that Los Hermanos Locos cares about your activities ***********...we already know what your about...it's all those that don't really know you yet...that's who I worry about. Ol' well, let em' learn the hard way. Probably shoulda kept my mouth/fingers shut..and I did so against the advice of all those that know you...and oh so well.

Desertbull :lol:

[Edited on 2-12-2004 by Desertbull]

[Edited on 2-12-2004 by BajaNomad]

Roberto - 2-11-2004 at 05:36 PM

David, are you seriously trying to say that DB posted just to scare people away from the trip and "keep Baja as a private playground"? Really? :lol:

TMW - 2-11-2004 at 07:43 PM

Desert Bull, I like a challenge so here's the deal. You get your 100mph TT and pick a spot anywhere in Matomi wash between RM156 and RM180. I'll have my radar gun and if you can do 100mph at the spot I'll pay you $500. I'll give you three runs at it. If you don't break a 100mph on any run you pay me $250. To be fair we can calibrate the gun on the hwy and you can have any member of your team or buddies watch me tag the truck.

[Edited on 2-12-2004 by TW]

WHOOOO HOOOO!!!

Mike - 2-11-2004 at 07:56 PM

I cant drive 55! (Music Playing)

Now even I'm getting interested!

I'll throw fifty bucks in! ($50)

just keep me updated DB

Mike Overcast
safari2002@cox.net

That reminds me...

Mike - 2-11-2004 at 08:16 PM

One year, I do not remember when, I spent several days climbing the devil, when my buddy and I woke up, we knew the race had started but only saw quads on the lake bed (diablo dry lake) we finished breakfast and tooled down to the race course junction (the race was northbound) and we knew we only had a mile to blaze, I looked both ways like I was taught, so we both winked and I turned my 87 Ford Bronco II (modified, I'll leave it at that) onto the course, northbound.

I let 'Pepe' (remember the movie) wind out, my high rise manifold and fuel injection (a testiment to Baja Bronco Glory of yesteryear) do its thing, after a half a mile we were flying at 85 MPH on the lakebed..............yea, flying...

or, so I thought

We were listening to The Cult or AC/DC or Sammy Hagar, when...

I looked back in my rear view mirror...

I saw a trail of dust rapidly approaching,
really fast

be back..

David K - 2-11-2004 at 08:25 PM

Mr. S., I see there was no sincerety in you words to me. I offer peace and friendship.. you continue with insults. Funny how you, Minnow (Me-No), and now Roberto have all posted today... when we haven't seen you three in quite awhile?

**************************
**************************
**************************

If anyone doesn't want to drive on 15% of the race route, 2 weeks before the race, on just one day, for a couple hours, in the same direction as any pre-runners, then they can choose not to. I don't tell anybody what to do in Baja. We Nomads are adults... no orders are given to go to Baja.net and harass anyone, either.

Roberto: Well, yes I guess so... Why else would one wait until 4 days before a 2 month planned event to sour it. This is a President's Day Event... Score moved the 250 race into Feb. from the usual March date. I respect the sport of Off Road Racing... and to interfere as little as possible, yet go where we had planned for so long, I waited for the map to decide how we would drive. What else could I have done... There is no secret about the event. For the tiny portion of race course we were using (2 weeks before the race), would explain to anyone who didn't know about pre-running the course. Possibly before you guys knew what off road racing was, I pre-ran the Baja 1000 2 weeks before the race I was in, and didn't see another pre-runner (San Matias Pass to El Crucero via the old Gonzaga grades road) in 1979.

Oh, Tim, there are not 49 other weekends to do this. Unlike you Tim, we all just can't go when we feel like it. Some have school kids, some have jobs... a 3 day weekend is the minimum. We did this before on President's Day and we were even passed by a couple pre-runners in Valle Chico... as were others out on that day. NOTHING HAPPENED, a class 5 bug (I think) just zoomed past us...

You boys are trying so hard to make this an anti David K thing... When you are just showing the amigos on Nomad how low you are with the flurry of insults even with my peace offering.

I am going camping, some of you want to join me... that's great. If you read Mike Humfreville's account of our last President's Day campout you know we will enjoy ourselves. I posted, that everybody should be self contained... just like wilderness camping where we don't rely on others for our fun. When those of us 'solo' campers, camped together.. it was great! This is not about David K, this is about Baja amigos having a nice weekend together... Sorry if that irritates you so.

Once again, I hope all you Baja.net'ers have a wonderful time. The rest of us don't need an off road race to enjoy Baja.

Now, please ******** thaaat other place... I do not go there and harass any of you, ever.

No reply is needed, hopefully the whole exchange will be deleted after you read it... Peace.

[Edited on 2-12-2004 by BajaNomad]

How about $450?

PJC - 2-11-2004 at 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
Desert Bull, I like a challenge so here's the deal. You get your 100mph TT and pick a spot anywhere in Matomi wash between RM156 and RM180. I'll have my radar gun and if you can do 100mph at the spot I'll pay you $500. I'll give you three runs at it. If you don't break a 100mph on any run you pay me $250. To be fair we can calibrate the gun on the hwy and you can have any member of your team or buddies watch me tag the truck.

TW, no offense but...

The section around RM170 or so.. is fast, wide open, very smooth and even hard packed to a degree. I have touched 90MPH through there in my Lothringer 4-seat with 3 passengers.

At the time, a TT driver friend was driving a TT like prerunner through there with me and simply disapeared when we got into this area. He was likely doing 110MPH +.

My car can't do much more than 90MPH with the 4-speed box and low reving V-6. So, can you make your check out for $450? It seems fair.

The trouble with this area is that there are a few blind spots created by mesquite trees (or whatever) that folks tend to park near or under for shade. You gotta keep your eyes peeled and you absolutely must park way away from the beaten path if you stop.

Really, the rough areas are up at the top and down by the highway. The stuff in between is a breeze past the occassional hidden and imoveable rock that just happenes to be the same color as the sandy wash. There is one in the left track of a right sweeper west of the fast section that has yet to move no matter how many people (including me) have tagged it at speed.

Personally, I think you all should go up Chanate. Then you'll know what Hell is.

[Edited on 2-12-2004 by Baja Blackie]

To Nerf. Verb

Me No - 2-11-2004 at 10:47 PM

Off-Road Dialect: To Violently assist Vehicle slowing ones progress out of the way. :biggrin:

Since we seem to have a conflict of interest...

Mike Humfreville - 2-11-2004 at 10:54 PM

and many of you know the area, including David, DB, etc, why don't we spend some productive time figuring out where we Matomi folks could go that is off the race road and just as interesting. That in lieu of all the pixxing and moaning that you drag so many of us through.

Suggestions, please? We'll be camped in Nuevo Mazatlan. Day trips???

Mexray - 2-11-2004 at 11:00 PM

I'm just an old explorer dude that likes to get away to the outback when I can. Chase a few jack wabbits, eyeball a few old mine sites, eat some smoke in the evening around a campfire, and maybe sip on a beer or some tequila...

When I'm stuck back here on the ranch at home, I find great joy in reading about other Baja Amigo's that have taken the time to write about their trips, adventures, and mishaps.

One of my favorite 'reads' has to be David K. He not only posts his own adventures, but includes many others along the way. His descriptions, pictures and info on his web site are second to none, IMHO. Why does he do it? He's a self confessed lover of Baja California, who wants to share his discoveries with the rest of us in our small corner of cyberspace. I say 'thank you David' for your efforts! I for one, am far more Baja-literate than I'd ever be on my own. I too, love the lure of Baja, and your 'reads' help keep it burning...

The pot-shots David K has to endure around here from time-to-time seem a bit out of line, from my point of view. David sure doesn't need me to defend him - he does quite well by himself, without all the heated rhetoric employed by his detractors. It's fine for us to disagree with one-another on occasion - we're all different, and from different backgrounds - so stating one's 'case' and then getting on with life seems like a good plan.

Viva Baja, Viva Matomi, I long for your rustic beauty, your grandeur, and the occasional roar of a highly tuned machine hangin' 'two' as it side slips around my 4wheeler on it's quest for that next course marker.

If I was itching for and offroad adventure.

Me No - 2-11-2004 at 11:10 PM

and was in the area, I would take Canon el parral until it intersects the race course. Picnic there, and check out the cars that come though. (at a safe diststance) Then work my way back, stopping at any interesting spots I saw on the way up. That round trip is about 65 miles, and alot of it is slow going. Add another 45 to do Davids route, much of it on the course itself.

David K - 2-12-2004 at 12:52 AM

Me-No, Parral is how we were going to get to Matomi. It is a beatiful canyon. But no water, palm trees, Indian burial caves (to photograph, not touch), like at Matomi.

At the west end of the Parral road, it is 8 miles south to Matomi Canyon on the Valle Chico road (race course, same direction). Then we would make an 11 mile round trip to Rancho Matomi (not race course). Then follow Arroyo Matomi to Hwy. 5 (27 miles, race course, same direction). Hwy. 5 from Matomi north a couple miles to the old road intersection is also the course. This is all 2 weeks before the actual race.

There is little to do inland for a day trip that doesn't envolve some of the race course. Even the sulfur mine is on the race course.

The next place that has lots to see is Gonzaga Bay, but that is 75 miles/3 hrs. further south. Mission warehouse, onyx springs, Molino de Lacy, Las Palmitas oasis, El Camino Real, Green Pools and turquoise mine, are there for (two) day trips.... But 3 days to go, and 75 miles further south...

There are people coming who do not read Nomad, but learned about it through email connections. Changing to Gonzaga Bay probably couldn't be done at this late point. Anyway, this is the Prez Day Matomi Gang Reunion... It would be odd that Matomi is no longer the main objective. It was Surfer Jim who gave me the idea... He has wanted to see Matomi, but wanted to go with me and waited until I could get free.

We will see how many are comfortable. I do think with a radio man at the back door of our caravan... Perhaps somebody in back of his truck keeping ears and eyes open will allow all of us to pull off the road safely IF any prerunners reach us during the short time we are on the course. This Sunday is not the race, so if a prerunner has to slow down for a minute, big deal.

Thanks for the super kind words Mexray. You are one who knows me well. I wish everybody did. I never had any ill feelings or hostility for those who continue to 'attack' me. I have tried being friends with them all. Meeting them in person or inviting them to my party.

Somehow certain kinds of people cannot understand that I give what I can without needing anything in return. They feel threatened for some reason. They make up lies to get others to follow them.

Sharing my knowledge about Baja is what I am born to do. How many other 15 year olds published a book to help others get to Baja? I am still amazed that Dave Fitzpatrick or Juanita found one after 31 years!!!

I do the information because there are people who need Baja... It cures so many ills. Perhaps instead of DrDrip my email handle should be DrBaja!?! I am still learning about Baja and still have many places to go and see for the first time! An entire life of Baja travel is not enough! So much Baja....

[Edited on 2-12-2004 by David K]

surfer jim - 2-12-2004 at 01:28 AM

Well, this started out as a simple question with about a dozen responses....and now reminds me of Janet Jackson's Super bowl show...it has taken on a life of its own...I will be doing the MATOMI drive this Sunday as planned ...having a good time...and will look back on the weekend while I am at work and be happy I went...think if we can put a man on the moon that 6-8 vehicles going down a 50 mile road will be an easy task....all things must end and so will this thread...see you in BAJA Friday...

TMW - 2-12-2004 at 08:10 AM

Baja Blackie if it's your truck,car or whatever that Desertbull wants to use is OK with me, whether you are driving or someone else is OK. If RM170 is the location that too is OK. I will bring my radar gun and be in San Felipe this Saturday morning, leaving Sunday evening and I will be back on Friday before the race. Whichever time is good for you. I will have $500 cash should I loose and expect $250 from you or Desertbull if I win. To me this is a friendly wager that makes life interesting.

[Edited on 2-12-2004 by TW]

PJC - 2-12-2004 at 08:23 AM

TW, sadly my SF250 trip this year is truncated and I won't be hauling down the toys. Once I crawl out of my favorite and newly christened salt mine, I will definately take you up on this. Perhaps next year, I sincerely hope?

It will be fun and we need to keep this going 'till then or at least a friendly reminder. I hope that you don't mind the delay.

Are you familiar with the fast, wide and smooth section I speak of?

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
Baja Blackie if it's your truck,car or whatever that Desertbull wants to use is OK with me, whether you are driving or someone else is OK. If RM170 is the location that too is OK. I will bring my radar gun and be in San Felipe this Saturday morning, leaving Sunday evening and I will be back on Friday before the race. Whichever time is good for you. I will have $500 cash should I loose and expect $250 from you or Desertbull if I win. To me this is a friendly wager that makes life interesting.

[Edited on 2-12-2004 by TW]

Me No - 2-12-2004 at 08:42 AM

TW, you don't need to bring your radar gun, You can just get in the car with Blackie and check out the speed on his dash mounted gps. Much like I did last fall. I know we had that thing right around 100. :lol:

Damn.... i wanted to watch this race wager

capt. mike - 2-12-2004 at 08:53 AM

hope it does happen, i want side bet action!

anybody who's seen up close what TT's can do on marginally cut up hard pan must agree 100 MPH is achievable! 36" of wheel travel and 750 HP.? come on, get a clue!

Desertbull - 2-12-2004 at 08:54 AM

MexRay, Debra & Mike H,

Did you read this entire thread? In my first post I merely provided a "safety concern" for a group of Amigos that I had "heard" were planning a trip up the race course. Now, after all this banter, I see I truly should have just let it alone.
No intentions to get to this point **************************** ****************************

****************************
****************************

[Edited on 2-12-2004 by BajaNomad]

Desertbull - 2-12-2004 at 09:08 AM

TW.
Your friendly wager is appealing...only because those that have been there know how easy it is to do a hundie in the Wash...We will make it happen,although no need for a radar gun unless you bring the tuning fork and the latest calibration documents from the factory. Of course, you know radar guns must be calibrated each year for certification. Better yet, I say we strap you in the right seat with your eyes glued to the GPS and when we reach a hundie you say, "UNCLE."

Although, I'm thinking we should make it really worth our while...and raise the stakes to something that hurt's a little when you lose. Now that's a friendly wager :lol:

PJC - 2-12-2004 at 09:12 AM

DB, I think we need to persuade Scotty to take TW for a ride this year. Can you say "130MPH"?

Quote:

Originally posted by Desertbull
TW.
Your friendly wager is appealing...only because those that have been there know how easy it is to do a hundie in the Wash...We will make it happen,although no need for a radar gun unless you bring the tuning fork and the latest calibration documents from the factory. Of course, you know radar guns must be calibrated each year for certification. Better yet, I say we strap you in the right seat with your eyes glued to the GPS and when we reach a hundie you say, "UNCLE."

Although, I'm thinking we should make it really worth our while...and raise the stakes to something that hurt's a little when you lose. Now that's a friendly wager :lol:

Me No - 2-12-2004 at 09:29 AM

Once TW gets a clue what he is in for he won't want no part of any wager.

Debra, WHAT HAPPENED? You state you hate mean people and then you get down right mean. You don't really home school your kids do you. OWE UP TO? Please. You are killing me.

The venom should have been for the locos who plan on getting out on an active race course for a sunday drive, yet you focus it on Blackie. WTF.

I''ve saved the senceless comments by the key players here, so if something does happen while you guys and gals are out on the race course, any injured parties will know where to go. Believe me, if someone ruins a 100k plus vehicle because you guys got a case of the dumbass, then sees what kind of warning you had, there will be reprocusions.

Desertbull - 2-12-2004 at 09:40 AM

Blackie,

I'm visiting Scotty at 10:00 am...he's going to laugh at this. Only problem is that he want a split in the wager so we should really crank it up to 5K or so...that might pay for all his race fuel for prerunning and the end of the race and let us buy a night of drinks at the Meeh-Oh-Mar for all...LOL :biggrin:

[Edited on 2-12-2004 by Desertbull]