BajaNomad

Blowouts With BF Goodrich Tires

davidre - 4-7-2007 at 10:23 AM

One after another all of the BF Goodrich 235R8516 tires on my pickup have blown the tread off in catastrophic blowouts on paved highways in Mexico. The unit is a single tire one-ton with a weight of 6,500 lbs. Tire pressure is carefully maintained to 70 lbs. Front end alignment is perfect. The unit is not driven faster than 55 mph ever. Tires had a minimum of 8/32" of treadwear (even). All tires were spin balanced and were less than 3 years old.

I have in excess of 150,000 miles accumulated driving in Mexico and have NEVER had a blowout until the Goodriches.

I have lost confidence in the brand

TMW - 4-7-2007 at 10:32 AM

I'm not familiar with the 235R8516 but 70lbs pressure seems like a lot. If that's cold then it would be 5 or more when hot. I run LT285/75R16 TA KO at 45 front and 30 rear when unloaded and 40-45 rear loaded on a GMC 2004 Z71.

bancoduo - 4-7-2007 at 10:44 AM

Is it a TA KO ? There the best tires I ever had. Who or what made you run with 70lbs.

Hook - 4-7-2007 at 11:16 AM

That is the basic Load range E tire he's talking about, I'll wager, based on the size. It's rated up to 80 psi. Keep in mind that even if he adds 80 while cold, the tire is made to take the expansion beyond that.

Doesnt surprise me a bit from BFG. They have a history of churning out bad batches of tires, from what I've seen. I had a buddy who lost three within two weeks; two on the same trip. All highway. Those were TA A/Ts. Tread separated longitudinally between the treads. BFG refused to call it their problem. I wont own them after that.

Here's what I'm running. Michelin LTX MS. 48, 200 so far with a 6800# truck and a 2500# Lance on the back for probably 70-80% of driving. ONLY TWO ROTATIONS.

Remember, the true cost of tires is cents per mile driven. The Michelins are probably more expensive than the BFGs but they wear like iron.

[Edited on 4-7-2007 by Hook]

[Edited on 4-7-2007 by Hook]

reduced tire.jpg - 39kB

Gadget - 4-7-2007 at 11:18 AM

If it is the TAs you are exceding the max cold psi by 5lbs. I have a full set (6) BFG MTs 33 x 12.5 on my Bronco that weighs 5900 lbs and I run them at 35 psi. I have seen psi increases of over 10lbs while running in Baja. Depending on outside air temps, the pavement can be 150 degrees + and its way rougher then anything state side, oh, except for the pot holed, falling apart paving in my neighborhood. But that's a whole nuther topic, sorry.
I don't see that you crashed your rig during blow out, which is thankfully good. Not to diminish the trauma of the experience in any way but I think you were way overinflated. BFGs have a nice stiff side way and don't need that kind of psi. Depending on size and application many of them have an E rating.
I would also suggest purchasing future tires at Discount Tire Co., no association here, just a satisfied customer, and buying the road hazard warranty. Flat a tire and ya get a new one.
I just replace the tires on my F250 utility bed, work truck at Discount. I had stupidly got talked into a set of Pirellis and they were balled in 35K. They gave me $62 back on each tire. I didn't feel as stupid :tumble:

Gadget - 4-7-2007 at 11:22 AM

Hook beat me to the post. See how easily confused we can make you? Before I posted I went out and looked at the TAs on our Grand Cherokee and they are 65 psi max cold FYI, FWTM

Capt. George - 4-7-2007 at 11:28 AM

been using goodrich tires for over thirty years, never once had a blow out?

always used the all terrain??

BajaBruno - 4-7-2007 at 11:29 AM

The door sticker of most any 1 ton pickup would require at least 70 PSI. I had to buy a new pressure gauge for my year 2003 3/4 ton because it didn't go high enough compared to the pressures in my 1995 3/4 ton.

Note that DavidRe (who I do not know) says his unit is not a dually. Tire pressure is based on square inches of rubber on the pavement divided by gross vehicle weight, if I remember correctly. 70 PSI would seem light for that rig, except that DavidRe didn't mention that it was heavily loaded.

Sounds like a tire issue to me, without knowing any other facts. I'd be making a call to BFG and sending a letter to the CEO if I didn't get a satisfactory answer as to why the tires failed, but I certainly wouldn't just cry in my beer.

TacoFeliz - 4-7-2007 at 01:28 PM

The BFG All Terrain TA spec sheet shows that the E-rated 235R8516 is good for 3,042 lb weight rating at 80psi EACH. Clearly, a 6500 lb truck on four of these little devils does not require 70psi. A talk with BFG for a more reasonable pressure recommendation might be in order.

Hook - 4-7-2007 at 09:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TacoFeliz
The BFG All Terrain TA spec sheet shows that the E-rated 235R8516 is good for 3,042 lb weight rating at 80psi EACH. Clearly, a 6500 lb truck on four of these little devils does not require 70psi. A talk with BFG for a more reasonable pressure recommendation might be in order.


You cant say that without knowing whether his load is approaching that.

Even so, running those tires at 70 will, in no way, adversely affect them without some kind of manufacturing problem. That's still some serious aire that would only serve to run the tires cooler than lower pressures.

Lower pressures might be called for if he's not carrying weight but it in no way explains the problems he's had. We're talking load range E tires here.......they should take it.

surfer jim - 4-7-2007 at 10:54 PM

Get the road hazard guarantee.....:rolleyes:

Mas Info

davidre - 4-8-2007 at 10:54 AM

The tires are the "commercial" BFG. The sidewall info indicates a max tire pressure of 80 psi. The tires were installed and spin balanced by Costco in El Paso. I quaified my tire gauge against an identical gauge as used by the Costco technician. Both were within 2 lbs of one another. The greatest weight I carried was when I was coming south. A commercial truck scale measured 6,500 lbs with both fuel tanks filled and me sitting in the cab.

I checked the Costco in San Lucas, and they do not carry the 235R85 X16 load range E tire size. The closest is a 245R70 X 16 in both Michelin and BFG. These tires are close in height but are three inches wider than the 235R85 tires. I checked back with the tire shop and they said that they had called Tijuana but found no correct size tires.

Yes I did opt at time of purchase for the road hazard warranty. But it does me no good at all when I am a zillion miles from a US store. The shredded tire is dangerous to human body parts as well as to the camper and truck. The steel cables make grappling with the tire just as hazardous as fondling a jellyfish.

I cannot access Costco from down here. An unhelpful email answer simply said "Contact The Store Where You Purchased The Tires". Can I slice off a section of the tire that shows the problem plus includes the serial number, or do I have to haul the whole carcass back to the states?

Aye! Maybe it's time to sample a few dozen Tequilas :?:

Thank You Folks!

BajaNomad - 4-8-2007 at 01:03 PM

I've mentioned too many times previously that I will no longer use BFG All-Terrains. Multiple instances of sidewall blowouts with the tire sizes I was using on my Toyotas.

I've tried many other brands/etc, found winners in the Bridgestone Dueler line and see no reason to now change - at least not yet. Things always change though.

--
Doug

davidre - 4-8-2007 at 01:06 PM

Can someone in the states call a Costco warehouse and ask the tire folks if a "whole carcass" is necessary in order to make a road hazard claim? I cannot access US information down here.

Cypress - 4-8-2007 at 01:42 PM

70 psi would be way more than what I'd put in my tires, off HWY or otherwise.:spingrin: Factor in the heat expansion etc. you might be rolling on bombs.:tumble:

rts551 - 4-8-2007 at 07:18 PM

70 psi is not abnormal for any 3/4 or 1 ton truck with e rated tires. The truck manufacturer recommends that as a normal pressure. Underinflating tires on a heavy truck can cause severe tire failure.

[Edited on 4-9-2007 by rts551]

Hook - 4-8-2007 at 09:56 PM

Davidre, are you saying that the Costcos in Mexico will not honor a warranty purchased in the US?

Or is it just that they dont have an exact tire and the warranty only applies to an exact exchange?

If it was me, I'd see if they will apply the prorated warranty to a tire in their stock. Sounds like too much hassle to try and deal with a US Costco from down there.

If you have already moved all your gear down, you probably dont need load range e tires anymore; you could get away with some Ds. Are those more available?

David, I have an ex-student that manages the tire portion of the Costco near me. I'll call tomorrow and see what it takes to verify the warranty. I'll bet the whole carcass will be the answer.

[Edited on 4-9-2007 by Hook]

Bruce R Leech - 4-9-2007 at 06:44 AM

I bought a set of 4 Of BFG TAs and 3 through the tread and the forth I thorough in the trash after bfg would not honer there woranty. I will never buy another BFG. I have gone to Firestone and bridgestone and the tires are very good. they cant afford to put out another bad tire.

Diver - 4-9-2007 at 06:55 AM

Hook,

I had pair of those Michelins and got over 50,000 miles on my F250.
They were great tires !

I'm actually needing a new set for my F350 crew and I'm considering either the Michelins or Toyos. My last set is Schwab Wild Country 285/75. The D rating is the same load as an E rated 265. I'm looking for more of an all season than off road tread. Ford sells them with 265's but it seems like the 285's are a bit better ride and better in sand ?
Anyone have any recommendations ?? For size or brand.

.

¡Mil Gracias Señor Enganche!

davidre - 4-9-2007 at 09:29 AM

Costco Mexico does not offer (nor honor) a road hazard warranty to the likes of the one available in the USA. Secondly, COSTCO (nor anyone else I can find) has the 235R85 X 16" load range E tires.

What I CAN find are 245R75 X 16" load range E tires that are three inches too wide for the wheels. This means that even at 60 psi, the center of the tread is going to wear horribly fast. Wider wheels are not an option unless I want to spend an additional three hundred dollars for "custom" wheels that apparently are not made to carry anything near the maximum load rating of the tires. The wheels also do not have "coined"holes for the wheel studs meaning that the lug nuts can come loose at any time. The weight of the truck will not allow me to choose eight ply tires and even then the damn eight ply tires are an inch and a half taller than the ten ply tires (go figure!).

I am going to hate having to spend seven hundred and fifty dollars for tires that have to be thrown away.

Hook - 4-9-2007 at 10:10 AM

David, it's just stunning that no one is carrying those E tires in that size. I would wager that it is one of the largest selling sizes in an E rating. It's a typical size for highway carrying commercial 1 tons and they are much cheaper than the wider models. You can usually save about 30-40 bucks a tire by going with that size.

But they are ditch-diggers off the pavement........

I understand your dilemma on the wheel width. I have a set of fairly narrow wheels too and the widest I can get on them are the 265x75x16s (the stock size). I was hoping to go wider for better sand action but I've been told by my Costco connection that I'd have to spend money on bigger wheels. No thanks.......I'm too cheap. :smug:

Just got off the phone at the Costco in Capistrano Beach. They are saying that all you need is a large portion of the tread, so they can determine the pro-rated amount you would have coming. I SPECIFICALLY ASKED IF THE WHOLE TIRE NEEDS TO COME UP AND HE SAID "NO"!

I say it's worth holding em to the warranty. I lean towards the "bad batch" theory. What are the odds that you get another bad batch? Give the BFGs one more try, since the warranty applies.

But if you're going to spend more money, I like the Michelins and, as others have reported, I had good luck with the Bridgestone Dueler line. But that was not on a full sized truck.

[Edited on 4-9-2007 by Hook]

ursidae69 - 4-9-2007 at 02:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by davidre
Costco Mexico does not offer (nor honor) a road hazard warranty to the likes of the one available in the USA. Secondly, COSTCO (nor anyone else I can find) has the 235R85 X 16" load range E tires.


That is crappy news. :mad: I might not re-up my Costco acct.

BajaBruno - 4-11-2007 at 02:38 AM

I'll give you a little insight on Costco, since I had a similar situation about 1 1/2 years ago with the Mexico City Costco. All Costcos are the same company and all of Costco is supposed to have the same warranty; however, Costco HQ gives the individual store managers a lot of leeway in operating their stores and the Mexico stores don't seem to always be held to the same standards.

Costco DF wouldn't honor the Costco unconditonal guarantee on an exercise bike I bought there and the store manager wouldn't even talk to me. I wrote a letter to the Seattle HQ and apparently it was just forwarded to Mexico, which again just blew me off. After about 6 weeks % sent another letter and all hell broke loose that time. Jeez, I got calls from everyone. Seattle called to say how sorry they were, the Mexico general manager called to say how sorry he was, and finally the store manager called, and sent some guys over to deliver a new bike.

I know that's way too much hassle for you to go through and your situatuon is not quite the same, but don't let Mexico Costco act like they have different rules than Costco USA, 'cause it just isn't true. They just fudge the rules down South as long as they can get away with it.

surfer jim - 4-11-2007 at 07:38 AM

Perhaps in MEXICO a little "mordida" is needed...:D......or you can just say "the cartel sent me over"......:o

Tomas Tierra - 4-11-2007 at 09:29 AM

Could BFG be skimping in thier manufacture techniques in order to deal with costco and their pressure buying/pricing tactics??

Also, David never did say whehter the tires were TA KO or Rugged trail TA.

More Info From Costco Morelia Michoacan

davidre - 4-11-2007 at 10:45 AM

Text
I crossed over to Mazatlan, which has no Costco, then elected to bypass the insanity of Guadalajara. The Costco in Morelia is right on the ring road so I stopped in.

The manager of the tire department called the manager of the store for advice. Then they called Mexico City.

235R85 X 16" 10 ply (E) tires are available ONLY in BF Goodrich at Costco Mexico. Michelin is NOT available. The store needs eight working days in order to obtain the tires.

The USA road hazard warranty is NOT honored in Mexico, only the limited manufacturer's warranty is available. The warranty only covers defects in manufacture or material.

I DID find the correct size Michelin tire in Morelia. They cost $2,788 each plus fifteen percent IVA and seventy pesos mounting and balancing. This amounts to more than three hundred dollars US per tire, and they are similarly covered ONLY by a defect of material warranty which is NOT recognized in the USA according to Super Llantas Gonzales. This is accentuated by the fact that this dealer DOES NOT offer the buyer anything other than a sales receipt. Woe to a buyer that does not get a factura --- the limited warranty does not count unless one pays 15 percent sales tax and obtains a factura.

Further Note: My tires are labelled "Commercial" by BF Goodrich. They are not TA or TX or whatever, simply Commercial.

Thanks for the note about a whole carcass not being required. I will however dissect a six inch wide radial slice all the way from bead-to-bead which will include the DOT number.

And thanks a lot everyone for your help and advice.

I need to take a deep breath and figure out the smartest way to go here. Maybe I should realize that Costco wouldn't handle the Goodrich line if they were to be like Firestone 500's were (I guess).

Hook - 4-11-2007 at 11:54 AM

Just for comparison, the Michelin 265x75x16 LTX MS, load range E tires are 200.00 at Costcos up here.

Maybe I'll take a run up there at lunch and see if they carry the 235s.

BajaBruno - 4-12-2007 at 02:25 AM

David,

You can get prices for all of Costco's tires from the Costco.com website.
http://www.costco.com/

You can get recommended tire sizes on the same site:
http://www.costco.com/Tires/Landing.aspx?cat=3961&eCat=B...

Costco says that you can order tires and have them sent to a Costco warehouse within 5-10 business days (For Alaska and Hawaii orders, the estimated delivery time will be approximately 10 - 20 business days from the time of order. )

Costco says their tires are covered by "Costco Wholesale's road hazard warranty"
http://www.costco.com/Images/Content/Misc/PDF/TIRE.pdf

And Costco says on the tire page that "Costco.com products can be returned to any of our more than 400 Costco warehouses worldwide."

If you aren't getting what Costco.com promises, then I'd call Costco at:

Costco.com Member Service:
800-955-2292

or:
General Member Service:
800-774-2678

rather than running all over Mexico trying to get an answer at the store level. It's just a thought . . .

Ken Cooke - 4-13-2007 at 11:24 PM

One picture can be worth a thousand words...



Bomberro - 4-14-2007 at 05:12 AM

We drive a chevy 3/4 ton diesel pickup to lower Baja twice a year. We usually are over loaded, we have weighed the truck to see just how much we are carrying and have found we were very over loaded. We upgraded our tires to the 265R75 Michelins and this gives us a higher load rating. Carrying very heavy loads adds to the risk of blowout. We deflated our tires once to pull our boat off the beach in the sand, the next trip back we lost 3 tires, we figured the low pressure got us off the beach, but ruined the side walls of the then Firestone tires. Excess weight, smashing into potholes, low pressure to run on sand, reduces the safety margin for tires and driving back in July or August, damm road must be about 200 degrees, we do live on the edge!