BajaNomad

?Rattlesnakes?

Cardon Man - 4-9-2007 at 10:54 AM

A quick search of the archives revealed a few threads on these venomous critters. April was billed as "rattlesnake month" in one thread but there was no explanation as to why this is so. I for one have seen quite a few during the last few days. Why are they more evident this month than any other?

Anyone out there have experience with dogs being bitten? I've been trying to teach my dogs to avoid them when we see them. But I worry curiosity may get the better of them if I'm not around. Some threads refered to "rattlesanke avoidance class" for dogs. I had never heard of that. Anyone done it? i'm curious as to what they do to teach the dogs to steer clear of snakes.

JZ - 4-9-2007 at 11:16 AM

Good topic, I'd like to understand why they are out more also. I saw more last Spring then ever.

Last week I was riding on the trails around SoCal and rode right over one. It scared the sh@t out of me!

About two years ago my dog was bit by something. Not sure if it was a snake or spider. He is about 105 pounds, so a big dog. The nanny's kids took him for a walk, so I didn't see what happened and I don't think they knew he was bitten. I was traveling for work and came home late at night. He was just laying down acting like he didn't feel good. He's not a super active dog and I thought the was just sore from walking a lot more then he normally would. The next day he was still just laying there, obviously not feeling good. I then noticed something wrong with his leg about 4-5 inches up. It was very raw. Took him to the vet. They sent me to someone who focuses on bites. They put him in a hyberbaric (sic?) chamber several times. His skin around the bite basically fell off and you could see the raw insides of his muscle. It took a while but he totally healed up.

Sharksbaja - 4-9-2007 at 11:34 AM

Hibernation is over when the ground starts warming up. The farther north,the later they emerge. Were still getting snow above 2500 ft here so all the rattlers are still sleeping.:yawn:
That bite doesn't sound like a snakebite Rather a spider. Necrosis is more common with recluse or black widows where the venom is concentrated around the point of injection. Snakebites will affect the whole leg if not the whole body. When I got bit my head swelled up as big as a basketball and my toes looked like big ripe black plums :O and I was just a kid!

I have spotted 2 so far this month...on the blacktop

Pompano - 4-9-2007 at 12:01 PM

Since spring is here and lots of Baja lovers are out and about in the desert, some snake info might be helpful:

All the dogs I have ever had in Baja managed to avoid any contact with snakes. We hunt doves a lot with some
German shorthairs and they will avoid the critters like the plague. Some training certainly helps, but mostly it is an inbred caution with dogs and snakes. A book by John Wolter might still be in print about dogs and snakes...you could search Google. A snake kit for the dogs (and us humans!) is always a good thing

Rattlesnakes are seen most frequently during the spring when they are coming out of hibernation and in the fall when they are returning to their dormant homes for the cold winter months.

In the desert, when temperatures are high, rattlesnakes become more active at night. Rattlesnakes have no control system for their body temperature and cannot handle excessive heat, so they remain underground during the day, hidden in burrows, under rocks or in the shade of shrubs. In the spring and autumn, when daytime temperatures are milder than summer months, rattlesnakes are seen sunbathing on rocks or hunting for food during daylight hours.

Spring is one of the most beautiful times of the year in the desert, but it can also be a time for caution. Rattlesnakes lie dormant during the cold fall and winter months and awaken from hibernation in the warm months of March and April.

Rattlesnake Statistics
Approximately 8,000 people a year receive venomous snakebites in the U.S., 9-15 victims die. (FDA)

25% of adult rattlesnake bites are dry, with no venom injected. (Brown, 1997)

Rattlesnakes can only strike a distance equal to 1/2 their own length

Symptoms of a Rattlesnake Bite:

One or two puncture marks
Pain, tingling or burning at the area of the bite
Swelling at the area of the bite
Bruising and discoloration at the site of the bite
Numbness
Nausea, weakness and lightheadedness.
Difficulty breathing
First Aid for Snakebites
(This first aid for snakebites information was provided by the U.S. Food & Drug Administration (FDA) and the American Red Cross)

According to the American Red Cross, these steps should be taken:

Wash the bite with clean water and soap.
Immobilize the bitten area and keep it lower than the heart.
If the bite is on the hand or arm remove any rings, watches or tight clothing.
Get medical help immediately.
Most bites don't occur in isolated situations where the victim may be a long distance from medical help. Some medical professionals, along with the American Red Cross, cautiously recommend two other measures:

If a victim is unable to reach medical care within 30 minutes, a bandage, wrapped two to four inches above the bite, may help slow venom. The bandage should not cut off blood flow from a vein or artery. A good rule of thumb is to make the band loose enough that a finger can slip under it.

A suction device may be placed over the bite to help draw venom out of the wound without making cuts. Suction instruments often are included in commercial snakebite kits.

How NOT to treat a rattlesnake bite:

Snakebite first aid methods are not always agreed upon by U.S. medical professionals, but they are nearly unanimous in their views of what NOT to do.

NO ice or any other type of cooling on the bite. Research has shown this to be potentially harmful.

NO tourniquets. This cuts blood flow completely and may result in loss of the affected limb.

NO electric shock. This method is under study and has yet to be proven effective. It could harm the victim.

NO incisions in the wound. Such measures have not been proven useful and may cause further injury.




Lastly, if you do have to kill one, you are in luck...they are delicious!..but cook it first..not like these guys.

(I have posted this old rattler photo before on Nomads, but I couldn't resist this opportunity. :rolleyes: )

[Edited on 4-9-2007 by Pompano]

-1 Badlands rattler snack (Small).jpg - 49kB

Rattlers, Springtime, and Short Shorts!

Cameron - 4-9-2007 at 12:06 PM

Quote:
SWEET shorts, Pompano! :lol::lol::lol:
Have you still got those hanging around, waiting for a "Seventies Party" maybe???
Cameron

Lastly, if you do have to kill one, you are in luck...they are delicious!..but cook it first..not like these guys.

(I have posted this old rattler photo before on Nomads, but I couldn't resist this opportunity. :rolleyes: )


[Edited on 4-9-2007 by Cameron]

Halboo - 4-9-2007 at 12:16 PM

If the lizards are out so are the snakes.

My dogs went to rattlesnake avoidence twice (which is recommended) it was a year between the classes; the second time, when we got to the park where it was being held they were just setting up and one of the handlers was moving the snakes around. One of them buzzed and both of the dogs started freakin' and did not want to even start the course or get anywhere near the things.
A few months later we were up at my cousin's rancho, came around a corner and encountered a small rattler; they both groweled and began walking backward.......
A buddy of mine almost lost his dog to a bite and it cost him a couple grand to save the dog.
It's cheap insurance for sure.

Pompano - 4-9-2007 at 12:19 PM

Good guess, Cameron!...it was indeed in the seventies in the Badlands. 1975 to be exact...but no, they have gone the way of my flared bell bottoms....and unfortunately I couldn't quite fit into those anymore either!

Sharksbaja - 4-9-2007 at 12:37 PM

How NOT to treat a rattlesnake bite:

Snakebite first aid methods are not always agreed upon by U.S. medical professionals, but they are nearly unanimous in their views of what NOT to do.

"NO ice or any other type of cooling on the bite. Research has shown this to be potentially harmful.

NO tourniquets. This cuts blood flow completely and may result in loss of the affected limb.

NO electric shock. This method is under study and has yet to be proven effective. It could harm the victim.

NO incisions in the wound. Such measures have not been proven useful and may cause further injury. "
----------------

Yeah, they knew very little about treating bites in the sixties. They did all the above with exception to electric shock. They probably would have done that also but by the time I received med help it was too late for anything help except for antivenom. Not much around back then. I was fortunate enought to be treated bt Dr Keibler. The only expert in SoCal at the time.


Odd thing about the symptoms. I had no idea I was even bitten till I lifted my leg up and lo and behold. It felt like a twig had scratched me. No pain at that time. In fact, I felt completely numb only minutes after being bit. The pain(much) came later during recovery. Felt like I had broken my ankle. Could not walk on it for weeks. Be careful please.

David K - 4-9-2007 at 04:09 PM

In 'Bajo California: The Limit of Time' (a movie), 'Arce' of San Francisco de la Sierra helped Damian's bite with slices of cactus (fleshy part against bite)... I think it was pitahaya? Anyone else know if this was legitamate local theropy or the cactus variety?

cardon man

bajaguy - 4-9-2007 at 05:34 PM

check your u2u

Cardon Man - 4-9-2007 at 05:51 PM

Thanks bajaguy. u2u back at ya.

Cascabel

Cardon Man - 4-9-2007 at 05:58 PM

An interesting observation on a recent snake sighting...yesterday, we saw 2 rattlesankes coiled together in mating ( I assume ). The two snakes were reared up like cobras with a good portion of their bodies lifted high off the ground. They were swaying very close to each other, side by side and at times coiling together. We watched for a couple of minutes before we decide to keep the dogs moving away from the scene. Fascinating behavior to see in the wild.

cardon man

bajaguy - 4-9-2007 at 06:01 PM

check u2u....again

ursidae69 - 4-9-2007 at 06:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cardon Man
An interesting observation on a recent snake sighting...yesterday, we saw 2 rattlesankes coiled together in mating ( I assume ). The two snakes were reared up like cobras with a good portion of their bodies lifted high off the ground. They were swaying very close to each other, side by side and at times coiling together. We watched for a couple of minutes before we decide to keep the dogs moving away from the scene. Fascinating behavior to see in the wild.


You're describing two males competing for a territory or female. I've seen that once in my life and it was very cool. :cool:

Cardon Man - 4-9-2007 at 07:49 PM

Ursidae69...It was indeed cool to see those snakes behaving in such a way. I knew as I watched that it was a unique thing to see. I only wish we could have observed them at length but with the dogs along I figured we'd better leave those snakes to do their business. Very impressive reptiles!

Male rattlesnake mating competition

Pompano - 4-10-2007 at 06:19 AM

Cardon Man & ursidae69, you are both fortunate to have witnessed this seldom-seen event.

I found this photo of another rattler competition ritual. Seems like the one who gets his head above the other wins the right to mate. Hey, we can find Animal Planet and Discovery right here on Nomads!

-1 male rattlers 2.jpg - 25kB

Skeet/Loreto - 4-10-2007 at 06:43 AM

Sweetwater Texas "The Rattlesnake Capitol of the World"--Each year in March the Annual Rattlesnake Roundup occurs, 30 to 40 Thousand People Show up.
On the little 100 acre Farm where I was born has the Largest Rattlesnake Den in the World, where as a Kid I watched my Father and the other Farmers drag Rattlers out of the Den by the 100's- Rattles had a Bounty of $.50 cents each at that time.
While living in Loreto I had a small operation going whereby I Skinned and Tanned the Hides and sold for $5.00 a Foot to an Operation in Farmers Branch Texas.
If you are really interested in Rattlers and lots of them, go East out of Cuidad Constitution , work the Arroyos where their is Debris and you can gather as many as you can haul in your Pickup. Use Common Sense,and a long Forked Stick or a RattleSnake Catcher produced and Sold at the Roundup in Texas. If you need to transport before Killing and Skinning, take the Snake by the Head, forced the mouth open, drain the Venom, then remove the Fangs and Sacks with a Pair of Needlenose Pliers.
Hang from the Head, cut up the belly and Skin, soak for 46 hours in Avon Skin so Soft, spread and clip to a board and dry.
My Dogs have a very different Bark when a Rattler is in the Area, they will not aapproach within Strikeing Distance.

When Hunting: Wear Knee High Boots, keep away from Debris around the roots of Trees
Do not climb Rock facings, if you do climb, use a stick to check out holes from a distance.
Carry a SnakeBite Kit as recommended by the Instructors First Aid Kit Manuel and use as Directed- Do not Panic and start Running!!!

Try smoking the Meat over Charcoal- It is Great!!

Skeet/Loreto

Halboo - 4-10-2007 at 11:44 AM

Quote:

Try smoking the Meat over Charcoal- It is Great!!

One of my old compas from Chimaltitan claims dry smoked carne de cascabel prevents heart attacks.

Cypress - 4-10-2007 at 12:08 PM

Something like boney potato chips comes to mind.:D

Skeet/Loreto - 4-10-2007 at 01:08 PM

While living in San Nicolas I had the Stomach Flu. Enrique Murrillo's Wife mixed up a Potion of Dried Crushed Rattlesnake Bone, Goat Poop, and a small amount of Marijuna(DOPE} Worked Great--Stomach problem went away in about an Hour.

Skeet

The picture

Skipjack Joe - 4-10-2007 at 02:42 PM

Those competing rattlers don't seem to be very agressive towards one another. You'd think that with all that venom they could do better than to nuzzle up against each other like that.

Snake photo

Cardon Man - 4-10-2007 at 03:40 PM

That photo is exactly what we observed. No overtly aggresive behavior. Very interesting. If only I had my camera!

That picture of the intertwined rattlers....

Pompano - 4-10-2007 at 03:44 PM

That's what I thought too at first, Skipjack Joe and Cardon Man. Couldn't they bite each other and die? Then I researched these snake dances and found that the facts are indeed stranger than the folklore surrounding this rarely seen behavior.

It was first believed that the snakes, twisting about and seemingly linked together, were mating. Now it's known that only males perform this symbolic dance.

Now here is where it gets very strange....It has also been observed between males of different species and at different times of year, sometimes without a female nearby. What exactly stimulates the males to "dance" is not clear, but the goal seems obvious to establish sexual dominance.


With almost half of their bodies poised upright, the opponents rock back and forth until one senses an advantage and throws the other off balance.

As their excitement builds, the momentum of the dance quickens. Lacking arms and legs, the snakes wrestle by literally "throwing their weight around."
The wrestling match seems to be a test of coordination as well as of strength.

This exhausting dance can go on for several hours. But snakes are very strong for their size. Pound for pound, they have more muscle tissue than any other animal.

These contests are settled without any intent to kill their opponent. Hey, maybe we could take a page from these guys...and bring this up at the next UN meeting.

In any case, their death-dealing fangs are useless against each other since rattlesnakes are immune to their own venom. This explains how they can bite and then swallow their poisoned prey.

All in all, a very interesting world we are sharing.

Rattlesnake dinner

Skipjack Joe - 4-10-2007 at 05:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pompano
In any case, their death-dealing fangs are useless against each other since rattlesnakes are immune to their own venom. This explains how they can bite and then swallow their poisoned prey.


I once ate a road killed rattler with a buddy of mine near Santa Fe. A car had driven over it's head but the body was untouched. It was my friend's idea and I had reservations but went along with it (I waited for him to swallow first, heh, heh).

Anyway, my fear was that we would be digesting snake venom that has been squished from it's sacs into the meat. Were my fears unfounded? I'm guessing that those who've eaten rattlers will carefully remove the head and hope none of the venom is in the meat. Heck, maybe the frying broke down the toxins.

Either way, our little experiment was pretty foolhardy.

woody with a view - 4-10-2007 at 06:47 PM

i heard you are supposed to cut of 6+" off behind the head to make sure you don't get the poison ducts.

quien sabe?

Halboo - 4-10-2007 at 07:07 PM

Never heard that one; everybody I know that eat's 'em just cuts off the head......
I have heard of people getting sick from eating a snake that had bitten itself; not sure if that's an old wives tale or not......

Pompano - 4-10-2007 at 08:55 PM

Around here (Baja Sur) the roadrunners eat a lot of rattlers and other snakes. Overseas and in Jamaica, a mongoose is the bane of snakes. Then there are raccoons, secretary birds, and a whole host of snake predators around the globe that feast on whole snakes. Since they don't suffer any harm from eating the whole critter..venom and all...we will not either. Bon appetite!

p.s. but just in case...I am cutting the head off my next rattler lunch!



[Edited on 4-11-2007 by Pompano]

Cypress - 4-11-2007 at 04:56 AM

In some areas folks believe the head of a dead rattler should be removed and buried.:D Something about yellow jackets ingesting the poison and being able to pass the rattlesnake venom on when they sting someone. :D

A decapitated rattler should be treated as a "very short snake".

Pompano - 4-11-2007 at 05:59 AM

REVENGE OF THE UNDEAD!

Rattlesnakes can strike you from beyond the grave--and this bizarre form of posthumous revenge is surprisingly common.

Say you killed a rattler for lunch and you cut off the head. Watch out!

Studies have shown that an isolated rattlesnake head will try to attack objects waved in front of it for up to an hour after death. This is believed to be a reflex action, triggered by infrared sensors in the "pit organ", a structure between the nostril and eye that detects body heat.

A rattlesnake's body has touch sensors that can also trigger a reaction after death. There was an instance where a headless body jumped, smacking an unsuspecting observer with its bloody stump. Get that sucker skinned and in the pot quick!

Given that rattlesnakes rarely attack people unless they are provoked, the problems could usually be avoided if people didn't feel the need to kill them in the first place. Break out the Spam and spare that campsite rattler. ;D

Skeet/Loreto - 4-11-2007 at 06:12 AM

Prior to killing and eating a Rattler, the long time method is to hold the live Rattler at the back of the Head. Force the Mouth open,place the Fangs over a Cup/Can and Milk the Venom, then with a sharp knife or Needlenose pliers remove the Venom Sacks that feed the Fangs.
There are many RattleSnake Heads cured and Sold after they are cleaned in this Manner. Do not remove the head until the Fangs have been Milked and Sacs removed.

Skeet

SoCalAl - 4-11-2007 at 07:57 AM

:?:I don't know why my stomack muscles are contracting and my mouth is watering? In one instance I feel like having a Rattler BBQ and the next I feel like, what the heck am I thinking.:O Truth is I have never run into a rattler but I have always been curious about catching or hunting one. I don't know if it is the danger of the whole thing or what but I know that traveling to the Desert lands of Baja enough is going to put me in front of one of these ccritters sooner or later.:bounce: I just hope I have enough sense to stay away from it, I have a tendency to approach dangerous situations. :biggrin:
What do they taste like? And please don't say chicken... Not everything exotic tastes like chicken, does it?:?:

Your are right..not everything 'tastes just like chicken'..

Pompano - 4-11-2007 at 08:09 AM

Not much meat on a small one...so the larger the snake the better for eating. It has a very unique taste and full of bones. Kinda of rubbery and a sweet meat.

SoCalAl - 4-11-2007 at 08:59 AM

Hmmm, sound pretty good. It kind of sounds like a abolne type of flavor rubbery and a little sweet???:smug: Pampano or maybe like a shrimp or deer jerky?? What do you think?? Just wondering...

SoCal...

Pompano - 4-11-2007 at 11:35 AM

On the subject of eating rattlesnakes, I must say that they are pretty low on my choice of dinnerfare...right before spotted owl. Like Crocodile Dundee said in his movie when asked about eating a dungbeetle or something equally nasty.."Tastes like crap, but you can eat them."

I will let others pursue the culinary aspects of snakes.

This bunch would make a good-sized stew, I expect.

-1 a culvert of rattlers (Custom).jpg - 44kB

Skeet/Loreto - 4-11-2007 at 02:10 PM

Some will say that it taste between a Chicken Breast ad Shrimp.

To me it is very much like a young Possum.

Skeet

Cypress - 4-11-2007 at 03:23 PM

If Rattlesnake meat was a tastey treat there'd be a franchise serving it up.:D Snakes have way more rib bones than most critters.:lol: There isn't much meat between the bones.:O:lol:

Santiago - 4-11-2007 at 03:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
While living in San Nicolas I had the Stomach Flu. Enrique Murrillo's Wife mixed up a Potion of Dried Crushed Rattlesnake Bone, Goat Poop, and a small amount of Marijuna(DOPE} Worked Great--Stomach problem went away in about an Hour.

Skeet


Alice B Toklas has gotta be rolling - I know I am................ maybe the most ironic post I've seen in a while.

rattlesnake sausage

bajapablo - 4-11-2007 at 03:40 PM

The rodizio grill (brazillian buffet) in Salt Lake serves a white sausage made from the meat of the rattlesnake. Tastes like shiz

Skeet/Loreto - 4-12-2007 at 10:48 AM

Canned Rattlesnake can be bought from some Upscale Delis.
Also "The Big Texan" in Amarillo has it on their Menu along with Armadillo.

Skeet