BajaNomad

BODY LIFY FOR DODGE RAM 04

BAJACAT - 4-25-2007 at 10:06 PM

Nomads any input on this matter, Im looking to lift my truck a little bit more Im allready doing a leveling kit on this saturday.My friend recomend it a body kit I do not know anything about body lifts,at this point I can afford a suspention lift.

Important upgrade

Sharksbaja - 4-25-2007 at 11:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BAJACAT
Nomads any input on this matter, Im looking to lift my truck a little bit more Im allready doing a leveling kit on this saturday.My friend recomend it a body kit I do not know anything about body lifts,at this point I can afford a suspention lift.


Body lifts do not carry or support manufacturers warranties. I suggest you just get the proper size lift kit to begin with. Depending on what you do will determine which kit you use will normally dictate what size tire you can run.
The advantage of the body lift kit is that it does not require and driveline alterations. There are some issues with the retrofit bumper brackets and steering wheel shaft extension. I would consider carefully which kits you puchase. Some use non-solid block and or cheap plactic bushings.
Other advantages of a body lift include greater tire size, greater tire to well clearance and reducing loss of COG.

Some lifts are intended for washboard or constant pounding. Other lifts are used to setup a rig for large rocks and fallen trees. Up here we like mucho clearance and giant tires for all the mud, water and washouts.. A setup like Whistlers is better suited for long fast desert tracks. It's a decision worth investigating. You'll like the results I'm sure.

Taco de Baja - 4-26-2007 at 07:20 AM

I do not recommend body lifts.
On my 1989 S-10 Blazer the body cracked in several place form the strain of the 3" lift.

Body lifts will also require you to lower things like your radiator.
You will have to extend things like your gas fill line, your transmission linkage, your steering linkage, maybe brake lines....
You will have to modify your bumpers to raise them back to where they should be.

They are cheap, but you get what you pay for.

Save your money and get a good suspension kit. DO NOT get one with blocks to raise the rear, they are trouble. Get one with springs designed to lift your truck the desired height.

Suspension kits will raise your frame and all components, immediately giving you added ground clearance without larger tires. A body lift will only give you added ground clearance when you add the larger tired that you can now fit.

A modest 2.5 to 3 inch suspension lift will usually not require driveline modifications.




[Edited on 4-26-2007 by Taco de Baja]

jimgrms - 4-26-2007 at 07:43 AM

I am and always will be puzzled by this lifting for more clearances thousands of dolar are spent just to be able to spend even more on larger tires to raise your front and rear gears a inch or two to clear a rock when you can either drive around it or roll the rock out of the war, of course i mean no disrespect to those who do it just don,t understand it

David K - 4-26-2007 at 08:33 AM

It has more to do with 'looks', I think!

My Tacoma has over 9" of factory stock min. clearance (under the differential)... Unless you are racing, that should be enough.

Those that don't buy a rig with enough stock clearance... well, that leaves the suspension lift option mentioned above, for bigger tires to give you more clearance. Perhaps see how big a tire you can use without the lift kit?

Unless you have IRS (independent rear suspension), you will need the bigger tires to raise that low point up.

Roberto - 4-26-2007 at 02:52 PM

Quote:

It has more to do with 'looks', I think!

Really! :o Well, in an off-road application, there are two reasons, primarily, for doing this:

1. Increased space for larger tires. Larger tires will give a huge advantage when off-road, for traction, ability to go voer obstacles, shock absorption, all kinds of reasons to do this.
2. Increased suspension travel - when travelling at a good rate of speed, suspension travel makes all the difference.

Bajacat, you have no idea what a difference these upgrades make until you have experienced a Baja road with large, quality tires and upgraded suspension with increased wheel travel - another world entirely!

This can add up to some money, easily, and any good system will definitely do so, so inform yourself before jumping in. I would totally discard outfits like ProComp, etc. Go to someone who does this - there are plenty of shops in the San Diego area and get the advice. SKG Motorsports is one such place in San Diego, Carli in Orange County is another.

[Edited on 4-26-2007 by Roberto]

Sharksbaja - 4-26-2007 at 02:57 PM

Amen. Change can be good!;D

rts551 - 4-26-2007 at 06:39 PM

Yes body lifts are a waste of money and time.... But roberto why do you need to travel at a good rate of speed (sorry Glenn and Kore). I go where most people won't go with a stock F-250 4x4 crew cab... but I go slow... and enojoy my Pacifico or Tecate

Diver - 4-26-2007 at 06:54 PM

If you do a lot of washboard driving the bigger tires and better suspension can make your trip much more comfy. Off road with enough power or gearing, the larger tires and increased travel allow a lot more playing in the boulders, mud, water crossings, sand .....

rts,
I too have taken a Ford 4x4 many places but would never think to go some of the places the jeep guys go - also a crew cab has a looooong turning radius !!

.

Axel - 4-26-2007 at 07:17 PM

No need for a body lift. If you use the correct offset on your wheel application you can mount a larger tire and when your suspension flexes it will travel into your fender wells and not rub. With the spacers you should be able to get a 315 (35") tire on with no problems. I think your truck came with 4.10 gears which are still ok for a 315. You go any bigger you will be changiing gears to get back your power.

David K - 4-26-2007 at 07:50 PM

Taking thing out of context or misrepresenting what I was saying, again...

My comment (this part): "It has more to do with 'looks', I think!"
was in responce to the following posted by jimgrms:

'I am and always will be puzzled by this lifting for more clearances thousands of dolar are spent just to be able to spend even more on larger tires to raise your front and rear gears a inch or two to clear a rock when you can either drive around it or roll the rock out of the war, of course i mean no disrespect to those who do it just don,t understand it'

I know that the reason for a lift should be for larger tires and more ground clearance and not just for looks (if the factory clearance or tires don't do the job).

I was saying that many (if not most) 4WD trucks lift 'way up' for the look... those trucks never seem to be dirty!:rolleyes:

Oh stop!!!!

Sharksbaja - 4-26-2007 at 08:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Taking thing out of context or misrepresenting what I was saying, again...

My comment (this part): "It has more to do with 'looks', I think!"
was in responce to the following posted by jimgrms:

'I am and always will be puzzled by this lifting for more clearances thousands of dolar are spent just to be able to spend even more on larger tires to raise your front and rear gears a inch or two to clear a rock when you can either drive around it or roll the rock out of the war, of course i mean no disrespect to those who do it just don,t understand it'

I know that the reason for a lift should be for larger tires and more ground clearance and not just for looks (if the factory clearance or tires don't do the job).

I was saying that many (if not most) 4WD trucks lift 'way up' for the look... those trucks never seem to be dirty!:rolleyes:


David, you would go into "lifted truck shock" here in OR. There is a disproportionate amount of lifted 4X4s. It's kind of humourous that you don't know why.:lol:

With that said. I'll admit I feel pretty "big" when traversing SoCal. Of course one must consider the terrain. Concrete certainly demands a different setup(you should see my other car).
I do understand the "look" factor though. It always gives me a chuckle when I see those cute gals humming around the streets of N.Hollywood in those Humvees. They would have a time adjusting to dirt. No offense but they sure taint that macho image of yesteryear.
Today, they are no more than mere glorified SUVs.;D What a friggin waste of equipment. I extend that to the other millions that possess off-road equipment for no other reason than to consume and pollute or "look".::?:

Dodge Rules!

David K - 4-26-2007 at 09:04 PM

I agree Corky... It is a stupid shame to spend so much on off road mods to never drive off a paved road... all for looks.

Yes, my point of reference is Southern California... I bet trucks in Oregon actuall get dirty, too!

[Edited on 4-27-2007 by David K]

BAJACAT - 4-26-2007 at 10:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by whistler
BAJACAT,maybe it would help if you can explain what you are trying to achieve.Performance?Looks?Tire clearance?
I also agree with Taco.Get a good performance suspension rather than a just for looks lift kit.I appreciate my KORE suspension on my Dodge and all the testing and development that went in to it now that I am trying to do the same with my Nissan.
guys Im just looking for more clearance not for looks,Im not in to that.this picture will show you why I want to do this.even do I do not like body lifts. and now with all the info that you guys provide me with, I made up my mind and will not install one in my truck. for now I will stick with the leveling kit at least I can fit 33's..


ON this trip to Palomar canyon I hit my truck so many times because of the low clearance that it make me think about lifthting my truck, but at this time I can afford to buy a suspention lift,thats why I was looking for a cheaper way..

[Edited on 4-27-2007 by BAJACAT]

Arroyo x.JPG - 47kB

Sharksbaja - 4-26-2007 at 10:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Yes, my point of reference is Southern California... I bet trucks in Oregon actuall get dirty, too!

Yes David mucho lodo aqui. Sticky stuff! But them thar scratches are all Baja! :lol:


Yeah, it really is odd how irrelevent all that gear is. It is so normal now for street vehicles to have 4x that it's just not much of a hook or buying point anymore. Orisit?:bounce:
Heck, it seems more standard than optional anymore.

On the original topic; give your retro a good think before you jump in completely Cat. It can depend so much on what configuration you use ie: rim size and offset, tire width and diameter. Model and year of vehicle and drivegear all can effect the performance or integrity of the equipment you use.

TMW - 4-27-2007 at 07:30 AM

You must be careful when getting a suspension lift and make sure who is doing it knows what you want it for. Some lifts are not for the off road warrior but for pavement jockies. Every full size truck made in the last 5 years can handle an LT285/75R16 (33inch) tire. If you have a torsion bar front you should be able to get an LT295 (34 inch) to fit. Check with a good spring shop and change the front springs and/or torsion bar and an LT305 (35 inch) will fit. Don't confuse the LT series with say a 33x12.50 or 35x12.50. The LT series is an inch or so narrower and would have less tendency to rub on turns. Rim offset will also affect it. For the rear an add a leaf or new spring pack will do.

I'm in agreement with David. You can lift all you want but the differential is still the determing factor. If you want that higher you'll need taller tires. Anything more will cost you some $$$$.

BAJACAT - 4-27-2007 at 08:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by whistler
Bajacat,is it two wheel drive?
2004 RAM 4x4 with A HEMI, IFS

Ken Cooke - 4-27-2007 at 11:28 PM

Could you simply add stiffer front torsion bars and twist the torsion bars to gain 1.5" to 2" of front suspension lift? That would be a simple way to gain clearance for those 33" (LT 285 or LT 305) tires. Also, ditch that stock front bumper, and get the Road Armor bumper for the Dodge Ram. It has better clearance and looks real beefy.

Sharksbaja - 4-27-2007 at 11:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BAJACAT
Quote:
Originally posted by whistler
Bajacat,is it two wheel drive?
2004 RAM 4x4 with A HEMI, IFS


Like this?:

TEFLON.jpg - 41kB

Ken Cooke - 4-27-2007 at 11:47 PM

BajaCat wouldn't want all of that low-hanging 3" tube-work hanging below his front bumper and rocker panels. Because clearance is such an issue, he'd be better off with a high-clearance front bumper and no funky step tubes.

[Edited on 4-28-2007 by Ken Cooke]

Did you say "tug of war for pinks"?

Sharksbaja - 4-28-2007 at 12:19 AM

:lol::lol: It's a little bit more than a rock-crawler Ken. I can actually take a family and bikes and so much gear anywhere I need to go. It a matter of choice. Those steps are fully functional and get used frequently. The truck has a six inch lift with 38.5 Toyos. Those offset Welds make the truck look lower with a wider wheel base. It keeps the COG way low.The tubes have never been an issue yet.
I do like the look too. My choice and it's sweet! Il ove the animal. You realize Ken you are still playing with little toys. ;D.:lol:

This pic with low tire pressure and in sand doesn't give the lift a good look.
You'd have a hard time getting me in your Jeep.;D

Here is one with my A/Ts:

trukfun_a.jpg - 50kB

Sharksbaja - 4-28-2007 at 12:32 AM

"I'm in agreement with David. You can lift all you want but the differential is still the determing factor"

Generally speaking I would agree. The third member is going to be the "lowest" part of the vehicle. A factor that usually doesn't apply in Baja is the "suction" factor. When your vehicle frame reaches the ground in muddy conditions it's like a vacuum. The whole bottom of the vehicle becomes the friction point. Best to get high with wide tires and give it da gas!!

Oops forget what I said.

Sharksbaja - 4-28-2007 at 01:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by whistler
I guess I never much paid attention to the 1/2 ton suspension.I assumed it was a 5 link like the 3/4,1 tons.I didn't even know Dodge Rams had an IFS.

Me either...

I had a brain fart. IFS is NOT the same.

Ken sorry but I've always had big trucks that are used hard. A cople buds had Jeeps that were always needing somthing and some other folks rolled their vehicles bla bla You would be interested in some of my past excursions into remote America but alas, they are not Baja related. Anyway, I enjoy your trip reports!!


Back to the subject...

IFS






[Edited on 4-28-2007 by Sharksbaja]

Sharksbaja - 4-28-2007 at 02:44 AM

jimgrms - 4-28-2007 at 07:05 AM

In 05 my son got a new gmc 4x4 and instantly spent a small fortune for a 6 in lift new tires and wheels it actually moved the rear end up a 1 1/2 inches which put it 2in above my stock cherokee with 235 16 tires , and to top that off he never went off road , i guess if some one has a need or desire to go to places like palomar canyon , a lift will help , but i am on my second cherokee and only place i have been stuck is sand and i knew better then , to each his own , but to me the lifts are not worth the trouble they ruin the ride and use lots more gas , plus i am old and feeble and can barely climb in a lifted truck

TMW - 4-28-2007 at 08:14 AM

My experience with lift kits has not been a good one. In 2000 I purchased a new 2001 Dodge 2500 4x4 extended cab V10 as my work truck. Since I go to the mountains in the winter lots of snow (7500 foot level). The first thing I did was have Big O tire put a 4 inch lift on it with 35x12.50 tires. First time out of the shop bang it broke just going down the road. A bolt snapped. They replace the bolt and weld it. 6 month later the weld and bolt break. Enough is enough. I have them remove the lift. I now take it to Big Eds 4x4 and have a Skyjacker 4 inch lift installed. A few months later the steering shaft snaps in the parking lot. In looking at it there is a 1/4 inch cut section that's rusted. I figure it was from the old lift kit stress. I have the steering box replaced. About 6 months later I'm coming down the mtn in a tight twisty single lane section with a 300 foot drop off on the passenger side and the mtn embankment on the other. At about 20mph there is a loud pop like a gun going off. I lose steering and the left wheels climb the embankment then drop hard and to the other side I go. Lucky I head straight to a tree and hit it. This all happens in a matter of about 30-40 feet and it's like slow motion. Damage done, broken grill, hood, radiator and condensor, right side battery (now leaking acid), right side door and front right fender, and winshield.

I have it taken to the Dodge dealer for repairs and have the lift kit removed. Everything taken back to stock. Repair bill is $13,000. The truck never drove the same again. Rattles we couldn't find and the headlights going out sometimes when the left turn signal was on. The front wheel engagement would intermittenly go out, usually when I needed it in the snow. With in the year I traded it in. Frankly the only way I would probably ever get another lift kit is if the dealer put it on and it's under warranty from them, which I know the chevy and GMC dealers do here. But I prefer to stay stock with add a leaf in the rear and bigger tires that fit. Since all my trucks are torsion bar fronts I raise them an inch. If I had a coil spring I'd change it for extra height as necessary.

Crusoe - 4-28-2007 at 08:31 AM

Just another opinion here........I think people should really define first what their target use will be? Then equip there vehicles accordingly........ The Earth Roamer Jeep is another "extreeme machine" as is a 10inch lifted ToyotaTacoma! You see alot out there, and its fun to talk to different folks.Over the years watching the changes is very interesting also. I have tried minamalist style small jeep camping and different other vehicles as well,and alot of exploring all over Utah as well as Baja. In Baja the strong winds are a major factor....... Give me a 4x4 big truck and a comfrotable camper to hide from the wind alot of water capacity, and fuel capacity period!!!!!!:light::light::light:

BAJACAT - 4-28-2007 at 10:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Quote:
Originally posted by BAJACAT
Quote:
Originally posted by whistler
Bajacat,is it two wheel drive?
2004 RAM 4x4 with A HEMI, IFS


Like this?:
I wish Sharks, here is my truck, stock I have only install a Airaid cold intake, billet grill and a Highlift jack . But has taking me to alot great places in Baja.(Monte video,San Borja,Bola,San vicente mission,San Fernando mission.Guadalupe canyon, Palomar canyon.) Im happy with my truck..

[Edited on 4-29-2007 by BAJACAT]

2004 ram.JPG - 43kB

Redesigned

Sharksbaja - 4-28-2007 at 11:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TW
My experience with lift kits has not been a good one. In 2000 I purchased a new 2001 Dodge 2500 4x4 extended cab V10 as my work truck. Since I go to the mountains in the winter lots of snow (7500 foot level). The first thing I did was have Big O tire put a 4 inch lift on it with 35x12.50 tires. First time out of the shop bang it broke just going down the road. A bolt snapped. They replace the bolt and weld it. 6 month later the weld and bolt break. Enough is enough. I have them remove the lift. I now take it to Big Eds 4x4 and have a Skyjacker 4 inch lift installed. A few months later the steering shaft snaps in the parking lot. In looking at it there is a 1/4 inch cut section that's rusted. I figure it was from the old lift kit stress. I have the steering box replaced. About 6 months later I'm coming down the mtn in a tight twisty single lane section with a 300 foot drop off on the passenger side and the mtn embankment on the other. At about 20mph there is a loud pop like a gun going off. I lose steering and the left wheels climb the embankment then drop hard and to the other side I go. Lucky I head straight to a tree and hit it. This all happens in a matter of about 30-40 feet and it's like slow motion. Damage done, broken grill, hood, radiator and condensor, right side battery (now leaking acid), right side door and front right fender, and winshield.

I have it taken to the Dodge dealer for repairs and have the lift kit removed. Everything taken back to stock. Repair bill is $13,000. The truck never drove the same again. Rattles we couldn't find and the headlights going out sometimes when the left turn signal was on. The front wheel engagement would intermittenly go out, usually when I needed it in the snow. With in the year I traded it in. Frankly the only way I would probably ever get another lift kit is if the dealer put it on and it's under warranty from them, which I know the chevy and GMC dealers do here. But I prefer to stay stock with add a leaf in the rear and bigger tires that fit. Since all my trucks are torsion bar fronts I raise them an inch. If I had a coil spring I'd change it for extra height as necessary.


That sucks TW. Was that a 2500 ?

Wiki explains:

2002-2005: The DR Trucks
The third-generation Ram debuted for 2003. This represented a major update including all new frame, suspension, powertrains, interiors, and sheetmetal. It included an even larger grille, and special models kept interest up as most competitors had adopted the Ram's separate-fender look. The Cummins ISB Diesel was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines list for 2004. The four wheel drive light duty trucks (1500 series) lost their live axles in trade for an independent front suspension, but the heavy duty (2500 and 3500 series) retained the live axles for maximum durability and load capacity.


---------------------

You are not alone. I have heard horror stories about lifted Dodge Rams pre 2002.

Ken Cooke - 4-28-2007 at 11:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
You realize Ken you are still playing with little toys. ;D.:lol:


Small toys, but BIG rocks!!


Jus messin' witcha Ken!

Sharksbaja - 4-29-2007 at 12:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
You realize Ken you are still playing with little toys. ;D.:lol:


Small toys, but BIG rocks!!




Jeeps are fun just a bit scary :lol:

I think you have a whole lotta fun in those thangs. Good on you! I like to watch you guys push the limits. It's not an easy task to tackle tough places and document that event! How about installing a video cam on the underside of yer roll-cage. That would be cool. You could Youtube it!:lol:

Hey wait a sec. I already have that!:lol: I'll go snap a photo of my A/V computer setup. Gives a person a different set of tools to enjoy and use.

btw, thanks for all the reports and pics!

Ken Cooke - 4-29-2007 at 12:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
You realize Ken you are still playing with little toys. ;D.:lol:


Small toys, but BIG rocks!!




Jeeps are fun just a bit scary :lol:

I think you have a whole lotta fun in those thangs. Good on you! I like to watch you guys push the limits. It's not an easy task to tackle tough places and document that event! How about installing a video cam on the underside of yer roll-cage. That would be cool. You could Youtube it!:lol:

Hey wait a sec. I already have that!:lol: I'll go snap a photo of my A/V computer setup. Gives a person a different set of tools to enjoy and use.

btw, thanks for all the reports and pics!


No problem. Thinking back to the Copper Canyon trip, the Jeeps performed so much better than the full-sized pickups because of their tires, shorter wheelbase on the trails, but also lighter weight. I'd love a fullsize pickup for daily use, but can't afford more than 1 vehicle...

BAJACAT - 4-29-2007 at 08:50 AM

Remember guys size doesn't matter, or it does?..:lol::lol:

Sharksbaja - 4-29-2007 at 11:33 AM

yes:rolleyes:

bajataco - 4-29-2007 at 08:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BAJACAT

...here is my truck, stock I have only install a Airaid cold intake, billet grill and a Highlift jack ...


Just curious if you have tried the jack to make sure you have points around the vehicle to support it properly. From the looks of the photo, you will need a Hi-Lift lift-mate or a bumper attachment to use it since the lower edge of the bumpers are curved so much.

[Edited on 4-30-2007 by bajataco]

BAJACAT - 4-29-2007 at 08:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajataco
Quote:
Originally posted by BAJACAT

...here is my truck, stock I have only install a Airaid cold intake, billet grill and a Highlift jack ...


Just curious if you have tried the jack to make sure you have points around the vehicle to support it properly. From the looks of the photo, you will need a Hi-Lift lift-mate or a bumper attachment to use it since the lower edge of the bumpers are curved so much.

[Edited on 4-30-2007 by bajataco]
Taco I bought the bumper attachment and the jack base support and I know it will work in the rear but the from is a diff. story.I will have to come up with something for the front bumper. lucky for me in all my trips to baja from San Diego to Cabo,no flats yet..but good eye Taco.