BajaNomad

Check Points

Don Alley - 4-29-2007 at 06:37 AM

Got this over the Loreto email network:
Quote:
There have been some disturbing reports about the military check point near Jesus Maria (north of Guerrero Negro). The young military men are starting to search more thoroughly. One person reported a diamond ring missing that was very well hidden. Another person said one man went through her medicine bottles and smelled them and even her handbag. Try to stay with the military personnel while they are searching your belongings.

Checkpoint 101

Dave - 4-29-2007 at 07:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Don Alley
One person reported a diamond ring missing that was very well hidden. Another person said one man went through her medicine bottles and smelled them and even her handbag.


Keep your valuables on your person. I have never been, nor heard of the military searching/padding people down. Wear your watch, jewelry etc. Keep money & prescriptions in your pocket. Do Not surrender your handbag or wallet. Hold small items that might be tempting.

If there ever came a time that the military would steal a ring off someone's finger it would be time for all gringos to leave Mexico.

Capt. George - 4-29-2007 at 11:36 AM

anything like this should be reported to the commandante in charge of that checkpoint.........

vgabndo - 4-29-2007 at 12:05 PM

My Spanish is not great, and I have never been real comfortable with military check points, but a few years ago when the Black Shirts were sharing duty with the Army at the reten south of Maneadero a Black Shirt POS touched my wife more than once on the thigh and on the neck, told her how pretty she was, and asked if she had children. I didn't see it and was in the back watching our stuff while she sat in front frozen with fear watching the cab. When I drove away and saw her in tears, I spun a squeeling U turn and slid into the southbound lanes yelling for the "Jefe". After a couple of lower ranking slime tried to slough me off, I finally got a ranking officer.

Suffice to say that when I was through, he completely believed that I was going to stop and talk to ANYONE military who would listen at every opportunity in the Ensenada area.

As I was preparing to drive away, he came to our truck and personally apologized to my wife, and in fact convinced me that there was going to be some hell to pay in his unit.

If you have nothing to hide, "climb the chain" the officers are not out there inspecting vehicles, you have to get in someone's face. Tenemos Derechos! P*nche Gringos or not.

I want to add that both in December and again this March, we found the searches to be more thorough. It is also getting close to the point of having to hide the alcohol. I've never before been begged for beer.

[Edited on 4-29-2007 by vgabndo]

David K - 4-29-2007 at 11:16 PM

Good for you Perry!

Phil S - 4-30-2007 at 07:12 AM

The most thorough inspection was at the milepost 25 (San Bruno junction) north of Loreto, northbound lane. They had long metal handled wires with metal weights attached. Then were tapping underneath our SUV, taping the roof lining on the inside. Looking under the seats, tapping the inside mouldings, etc. And for the first time, asked us to open the hood.
This was with the Vagabundo del Mar magnetic signs, which before had always been a "quickie" look inside. Maybe good that they are increasing their inspections for drugs. IN the states were losing the War on Drugs. I wish I had a magic wand & could place it on the forehead of every child born today & into the future to keep it "drug free"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DianaT - 4-30-2007 at 08:05 AM

Maybe because we are old, chubby, and look harmless, or maybe we are just lucky. We have been through Jesus Maria 3 times in the last 6 weeks and the search has been next to nothing.

Our dogs usually distract them. The big one tries to make friends, and the little one acts like she is going to eat them---they like both.

John takes one dog, or I take both of them at times. I stand by the cab and watch----our truck is usually PACKED. They may look under towels stuffed on the floor in the back (we have an access cab) They really don't look too well. One picked up the binocular case, handed it to me to open, and then said, OK, and we exchanged the word in English and Spanish.

John opens the back of the truck and says they usually stick their hand in one bag, open the ice chest and poke around just a little. We have never been asked for anything---just questions about our dogs.

If we were not treated so well, we sure would have no problem complaining. The army "kids" have always treated us well.

It is good, however, to hear these stories---reminds us to continue to be vigilant.

Diane:lol:

[Edited on 4-30-2007 by jdtrotter]

osoflojo - 4-30-2007 at 12:18 PM

The last few times I have been through any of the checkpoints it looks like their training has gotten way better.

vandenberg - 4-30-2007 at 12:44 PM

No matter what training, one well trained dog can do ten times the work of a platoon of soldiers. Always wondered why the Mexican military doesn't " employ " canines.:?::?:
Anybody knows.:?::?:

bajaguy - 4-30-2007 at 01:42 PM

Mexican K-9's legs would be too short

vgabndo - 4-30-2007 at 02:56 PM

Vandenberg

It has been several years ago but I spoke with a young soldier/dog handler with a German Shepherd who had recently returned to Mexico from Europe where he had trained with his four legged partner. This was at the reten on the mesa north of El Rosario.

It seems likely that such valuable resources ended up being used elsewhere in the country where they could be put to better use.

This was an obviously well trained animal, and the handler had several patches on his uniform relative to his job and training.

[Edited on 4-30-2007 by vgabndo]

Peloncito - 5-3-2007 at 09:48 PM

I just drove down and back from my house in Los Barriles. Heading south, got the usual wave and a "pasa le". I usually bring boxes of chocolate bars and sodas for the guys, "just doing their jobs". Heading north, I was stopped and the car fully searched at every checkpoint. Obviously, that is the smuggling direction. I have never had a problem @ any of the checkpoints in 20± years of driving the full length of Baja. Hope my luck continues.

Kind of makes you wonder how many "bad seeds" the US authorities might find if they setup random check points along highway 5?

Capt. George - 5-4-2007 at 03:57 AM

would not get away with wasteing the tax payers dollar on this caca de baca.

as long as there are users etc., etc. The War on Drugs aka; Get the Fat Cats Richer (not the "illegal" ones, just our politically connected thieves).

U.S. Random Check Points ?

MrBillM - 5-4-2007 at 06:52 AM

Thankfully, the Courts have ruled time and again that such "Random" Checks are unconstitutional in the U.S.

bajalou - 5-4-2007 at 07:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
Thankfully, the Courts have ruled time and again that such "Random" Checks are unconstitutional in the U.S.


Tell that to the Border Patrol with all their checkpoints on various highways.

vgabndo - 5-4-2007 at 05:31 PM

Bill, I don't think constitutionality has anything to do with it, and I think you are mistaken.

Under the terms of the so-called PATRIOT ACT there is no longer any such thing as as an illegal search. Even before that local police, sheriff's departments and the CHP routinely set up drug control road blocks all over California. This is especially common around holidays like the 4th. of July and Memorial Day to try to interdict drunken drivers.

These random searches automatically include the issuance of citations for seatbelt infractions, child safety seat violations, and anything relating to irregularities with "your papers please".

pangamadness - 5-5-2007 at 10:06 AM

I guess the check points are necessary and I feel safer with them in place but I have experienced some problems. However, not a lot in 27 years. Two times I caught the soldier digging in my wife’s bag and checking out her underwear. Both times they were noticeably embarrassed. A vehicle traveling with me had $ 100 stolen. Did not notice till they were 100 miles down the road. Many times I have found beers in their pockets as they were coming out of my camper after searching and once I recovered my mag light stuck in the pocket of a soldier who searched my camper. He said it was his, my name was on the light. Another time a soldier dropped a 22 bullet on the ground and played as though it came from my camper. He thought it was funny and only played it for a moment. The worst was in La Paz when a soldier opened my socket set and it spilled out in the back of the truck every where. The truck was fully packed and I never found all the parts.

I always hide the valuables and observe the search closely. I had a friend write in Spanish for me how to politely request to observe the search and to search 1st the front and then the back. Seems to put them on there good behavior.


As for dogs, a dog found this load

[Edited on 5-5-2007 by pangamadness]

the load.jpg - 37kB

Random Checks ?

MrBillM - 5-5-2007 at 11:25 AM

I haven't felt the inclination to actually READ the Patriot Act provisions. It seems that usually we simply hear someone giving their (biased) interpretation of various aspects of said legislation, frequently incorrectly in the case of partisan politicians. Since others have obviously been more studious in this respect, I would welcome ANY Learned edification on the subject. Please include the Page, Section and Paragraph when quoting so that we may go to it for reference.

Having said that, Prior to the passage of the Patriot act, the courts, including the U.S. Supreme Court decisions regarding highway checks have limited them to a specific purpose by Immigration or Local Law Enforcement. Granted, it is true that they have allowed Law Enforcement to "Fudge" somewhat such as the "Inland Immigration Checkpoints" wherein they legally were limited to checking Immigration status. However, we all know that there is almost without exception a CHP unit sitting there and IF, "Incidental" to their stop, they witness something suspicious or a violation of California law, they pass this on to that CHP person.

Nonetheless, prior to the passage of the Patriot Act (assuming you're correct), the courts have consistently ruled that Vehicle Safety Roadblocks must be limited to their supposed purpose. If you pull up to one sober and not acting suspicious, with current licensing and no vehicle defects, they are NOT given free reign to begin searching the vehicle without probable cause. I have seen cases within the last year when the Police search was declared invalid on those grounds. Not being FEDERAL ICE or DHS employees, the (New) rules may be different. Illumination is welcomed.

Clearly, that is a SIGNIFICANT difference from the Mexico Model.

Bedman - 5-5-2007 at 06:41 PM

Clearly stated Mr. Bill,

I have seldom been a participant in any sort of North of the border search but.... I do watch "Cops".

I always find it amusing when an officer says "Do you mind if I look in the trunk?" and hear the stuttering and stammering of the suspect. And then the officer says "You can refuse, but then I would have a reason to look!" Catch 22.

Bedman

amir - 5-5-2007 at 07:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vandenberg
Always wondered why the Mexican military doesn't " employ " canines.:?::?:
Anybody knows.:?::?:


This kind of work is really hard on the dogs: Training is brutal and requires teaching the animals by inhaling powerful toxic substances to learn to identify them. Most dogs don't even qualify for the training yet many have to be exposed to find promising canditates. The testing and training often sickens the animals permanently and renders them useless. The ones that survive the training and are comissioned, get overworked because there aren't that many animals that graduate from these sniffing schools alive! These special dogs should "work" for a maximum of 2 hours a day, but instead they are made to work overtime because of their scarcity and expense - this abuse kills them young and they don't have a very long "service" life. It is a cruel treatment of our K9 friends, and these animals should be reserved for real service, not just random checks to give us the "illusion" of safety and security.

The checkpoints have become more active under the recent increased pressure of US politics, in my opinion, to create a wedge between gringos and the Mexican military. "Divide and Conquer" in contemporary divisive tactics.

The best rule to observe at these checkpoints is NOT to carry contraband: don't bring weapons coming south, and don't smuggle drugs going north; those are the things they are looking for. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about!

--Amir.

amir - 5-5-2007 at 08:12 PM

Point well taken, Larry. We pack things in our vehicles that would tempt anybody! These armed “kids” with lethal AK-47’s are not above human nature, and they may very well see an easy opportunity to pocket something that does not belong to them; this is exactly why all the good advise and suggestions, in this discussion thread, to stay alert and vigilant around our belongings, is so helpful to ease our fears and uneasiness about the ordeal. On our last drive from Todos Santos to Tecate in February we were searched at seven (7) active checkpoints. It does make me uneasy and uncomfortable each time, too, but we observed them as they did their work, stayed calm, and answered all questions politely, and we were soon on our way… I don’t take these matters lightly; I just don’t worry that they are going to find contraband, because we are law-abiding guests in their country, and it would be very foolish to try to smuggle anything illegal when you know they are going to search you.

--Amir

Innocent Flowers

jettygirl - 5-6-2007 at 08:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lencho
Quote:
Originally posted by amir
If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about!

--Amir.


I disagree. Having armed strangers who may not be above the terrible temptations presented by their position, poking through one's personal belongings, is not something to take lightly.

On one hand, I'm glad they're there-- I think their presence makes driving the Baja a safer journey-- but that does not prevent my uneasiness when they stop and search me.

--Larry



On my last trip up in Feb I too had nothing to hid and as mentioned in most post, I also sit quietly with the cab of the truck while my boyfriend takes on the task of watching the small trailer we pull. When we came up to the Jesus Marie check point we could tell from both the long line and piles of stuff sitting along side vehicles that we were in for a real differant search than we are use to seeing.
When it was our turn, I stepped out of the cab and sat on the bench along side the vehicle and watched as my guy went through the truck. First round was A-OK but since the trailer was still being gone through, my guy decided to keep looking. In my back pack I had a small bundle of wild flowers I had picked the day before and some of the flowers had faded and dried. They were in a vase in my open back pack in water to keep them safe for the dinner table that night. Most of the flowers were still fresh and beautifull but a few were old and wilted. Well he pulled all the old ones out and started smelling them and rubbing them between his fingers. He then called over another guy who did the same. All the while I'm still sitting quietly and called to him and said, "wild flowers just flowers for the dinner table tonight". That didn't seem to faze him so the big guy was called over. Now I am getting worried, innocent flowers, just innocent flowers, but they were not letting this go. The boyfriend was called over and the big guy took him aside to discuss what the dried herb was. Luckily he knew right away what the guy had in his hand and said they were flowers. The big guy left with the flowers and about 15 mins later came back and said we were free to go.
So even though I had nothing to hid, innocent flowers could have gotten me in more trouble than I like to think about.
I know one thing, I will never feel at ease at any check point no matter what.
I appreciate the job they do, but will never carry innocent flowers with me again!!!

Let's get all the Mexican stereotypes out RIGHT NOW!!!!

Lee - 5-6-2007 at 02:57 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by amir
Point well taken, Larry. We pack things in our vehicles that would tempt anybody! These armed “kids” with lethal AK-47’s are not above human nature, and they may very well see an easy opportunity to pocket something that does not belong to them; this is exactly why all the good advise and suggestions, in this discussion thread, to stay alert and vigilant around our belongings, is so helpful to ease our fears and uneasiness about the ordeal.--Amir


Quote:
Originally posted by jettygirl
I disagree. Having armed strangers who may not be above the terrible temptations presented by their position, poking through one's personal belongings, is not something to take lightly.

On one hand, I'm glad they're there-- I think their presence makes driving the Baja a safer journey-- but that does not prevent my uneasiness when they stop and search me.

--Larry


I know one thing, I will never feel at ease at any check point no matter what.
I appreciate the job they do, but will never carry innocent flowers with me again!!!


(If I've misquoted here, my apologies!)

Let's see: kids in uniform with automatic weapons = thugs and thieves who are looking for ''easy opportunities'' to fleese tourists.

''I'd be vigilant around our belongings, is so helpful to ease our fears and uneasiness about the ordeal.''

You guys need to chill and take a pill. Why don't you consider flying down instead?

My impression is that Mexico is under pressure from the US to stop drugs coming into the US. If you're a white gringo, you fit the profile. But my experience is everyone pretty much get's searched anyway.

I think the checkpoints search randomly and do profile. An example of high profile might be long hairs with surfboards on top a VW Bus vs. 2 whiteheads towing a 5th wheel with a F-350 dually.

It's human nature to be curious and you can bet these kids are curious. But that's probably all! Let's say the 80/20 Rule applies in life. There's a bad apple in every bunch. Whatever the percentage is of these kids being bad, my opinion the percentage is low. Considering the amount of traffic going through the checkpoints, I'd say it's real low.

My dog can smell fear and can read body language -- and some of these kids can see the fear in your eyes. Body language is a give away.

From time to time, word comes from the top that drugs are being found at the Border. Thorough inspections might be the order of the week. Then, things relax a bit.

These kids take their jobs seriously and with great responsibility. Be assured that their Superior is standing close by, generally, watching everything taking place. He is also watching you and how you act. If you are fearful and nervous, you probably fit the profile of a drug smuggler. Think about it.

My expectation is because I have nothing illegal, I have nothing to hide, so why not relax and have fun. I admit to taking a deep breath and purposely relaxing.

However, my expectation has always been that everything will be OK and, rather than an ordeal, this routine is no more than a nuisance.

Smile, be polite, let them do their jobs, and be watchful. I make an attempt to improve my Spanish with these guys, have enough cookies for at least 3-4 checkpoints, and try to show my appreciation for them being on the job. THis works for me.

Relax!

:cool:

DanO - 5-6-2007 at 03:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Mexican K-9's legs would be too short


Yeah, all three of them.

pangamadness - 5-10-2007 at 04:39 PM

Originally posted by vandenberg
Always wondered why the Mexican military doesn't " employ " canines.
Anybody knows.

I have seen many of the check points with dogs and at least two busts I have passed were found by dogs. One was some poor hippy in a VW bus.

good work.jpg - 45kB

The dog at his post

pangamadness - 5-10-2007 at 04:41 PM

[Edited on 5-10-2007 by pangamadness]

what do I smell.jpg - 36kB

Photo from SeaTwill, near Cataviña

David K - 5-10-2007 at 05:18 PM

here's a wrench in the current theory

woody with a view - 5-10-2007 at 06:37 PM

last week my wife, son and i were packed into the front seat and at the maneadero checkpoint we were "stuck" in the "thorough" search lane behind 6 cars. after about 20 minutes it was our turn. fully loaded like the beverly hillbillies and the soldier was being very thoorough on all the previous vehicles, all were mexicans.

well we pulled up and he asked, "where you going? where you coming from"?

"adelante" and we did!:light:

hey meester, jew gotta light?

[Edited on 5-11-2007 by woody in ob]

soldano spot x (Small).jpg - 20kB