BajaNomad

Coming to baja? suggestions to think about

shari - 5-5-2007 at 11:23 AM

I hear alot of negative comments on all the trash in baja and got to thinking that visitors who complain could do their part to help control it. Last week, there was a family here who filled 3 garbage cans in a week (we fill 1)The dogs got into it and spread it all over and the wind carried it far and wide...as I was picking it all up, I began to reflect on the garbage issue. There were dozens of those little drinking water bottles, plastic costco food containers and non returnable beer bottles. I would like to suggest that travellers don't bring those things down with them and when they are here, perhaps they could drink out of refundable bottles or cans. Every town and village has a purified drinking water place to buy good drinking water. At our rental house, we have a garafon (large drinking water bottle) so you can refill your travel bottles and we provide empty beer bottles you can trade in for full ones. And don't forget your cloth grocery bags either!
Some guests who are coming soon asked great questions about what to bring and what NOT to bring....I find most people bring way too much food down when they can buy fresh, inexpensive food here in town...it supports the local economy, it's fun to see all the shops and meet the locals and better for the environment. I understand that many think they won't be able to buy what they want here so it's good to ask first but please consider buyng more local and think more about the garbage you generate. Viva recycling!

Barry A. - 5-5-2007 at 11:40 AM

RIGHT ON SHARI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are sooooooooooooo right!!!!!

Barry

Lauriboats - 5-6-2007 at 09:01 AM

Shari,
I totally agree.
Lauri

Mas Major Ahorita

capn.sharky - 5-6-2007 at 09:22 AM

Baja Sur has done so much to clean up its towns in the past 35 years. In the old days, each town had a dump at the ends of the town and the paper and plastic blew all over the dessert. Now they burn the trash and have cleaned up the highway and beaches. Santa Rosalia is a perfect example. Before you entered the town there was a huge dump up by the highway. Now it has been cleaned up and it is so much better. I use a 55 gallon drum, just like everyone else, to put my trash in. However, I use a piece of rope tied to my fence to hold it upright. This makes it very hard for the dogs to knock it over and spread out the trash. Just like here, if everyone does his part, Baja will continue to improve. And please, when you leave the beach, pick up all your trash and put it in the trash cans provided. Viva Baja

Still Hauling after All of these Years.

MrBillM - 5-6-2007 at 09:33 AM

Although I spend a sizeable amount for staples each month in Baja, my goods brought down on my monthly trips South still consist of a lot of groceries and I don't envision that changing.

Given the fact that San Felipe has grown to the point where most everything is available, there is still a quality and selection deficit that I don't see changing.

Examples are Beef cuts (quality and price), Milk, Bread, Dog Food AND Toilet Paper. One irony in beef I've found is that the Hamburger is usually TOO good, being very lean. I usually bring down 20% from the U.S. to purposely mix with the local I buy.

In the case of milk, I find that no matter where I buy it, inconsistent handling at some point in the distributorship results in premature spoilage too often. I can bring down gallons of milk from the U.S. and Three weeks later (longer if I freeze them), they are still OK. One week is usually the outside for local and, at times, one day has been the case. I've given up hope of ever finding Decent Bread. Not having eaten White bread by choice since I was a child, the only Wheat Bread I usually find in Baja is Bimbo Bland and it's usually been on the shelf too long. I usually bring down 4-6 loaves of various Wheat Blends and freeze whatever I'm not using immediately.

Canned or Dry Dog Food is either limited in selection or double the price.

Toilet Paper ? Mexican Toilet paper will NEVER be confused with Charmin.

Still and all, I do buy a lot of food in Mexico, especially produce and ALL of my Eggs and Chicken. Speaking of Chicken, most frequently the Choice is Legs and Thighs. PERIOD. Where the heck is the rest of the Chicken ?

DanO - 5-6-2007 at 09:40 AM

I've transitioned to buying nearly everything local, but there's one thing I still can't find down there -- plain, nonfat yogurt. Wonder if Smart & Final has it.

bajabound2005 - 5-6-2007 at 09:48 AM

Most of the panaderias now have wheat bread...look for pan integral. You'll also find a decent bread selection at Smart & Final. Costco (in Ensenada anyway) is starting to make some of the artisan breads. As for meats, if you go into a butcher shop (a real carneceria) they may not have want you want in the counter but they can get darn near anything you want. For Easter we ordered a boneless leg of lamb. He had it for us the next day and it was Australian lamb! (We were hoping for something local). But it was delicious. Most grocery stores sell whole chickens and breasts.

Yeah, what is it with the milk? We've taken to buying quarts because it spoils so fast!

Our local primary school started a recyling program. They take glass, plastic, aluminum, paper and organic material. We have recycling bins set up at our house and almost nothing ends up in the garbage! The school then sells the material to a recycler of sorts and the $$$ helps to support the school A win-win for everyone.

It seems that most of the garbage around on the ground comes from the garbage trucks themselves. Very few people seem to use garbage bags and the trash goes loose into the truck, the garbage man does not cover it. He drives along and everything flies out of the back of the truck onto the roadsides...

Natalie Ann - 5-6-2007 at 10:01 AM

FWIW: Orowheat brand bread.... several varieties I found in Smart 'n Final in Ensenada. Plain yogurt there, too, and also at Gigante. Used to get plain yogurt at Ley's in La Paz.

fishbuck - 5-6-2007 at 10:23 AM

I just got back from a 4 day trip and got as far south a Punta Baja.
I decided that I would store my trash in my truck and return it to SoCal where I live.
This may be impractical for some people but I decided it was the best way.
The waste management in SoCal is light years ahead of Baja. The landfills are very effecient here and in Baja they largely just dump the trash in an open space in the desert. It remains uncovered and blows around forever. I see this time and again when I go offroading.
It's sort of the backpacker creed of "If you pack in in pack it out"
Even the trash from things I buy in Baja I store in my truck and take it home.
Don't trash Baja!

[Edited on 5-6-2007 by fishbuck]

bajamigo - 5-6-2007 at 11:52 AM

In Punta Banda, we've organized periodic trash pickups, i.e., a bunch of us gringos goes out to various parts of the road with buckets and pick up garbage of many origins. Sure, you'll see the occasional Kirkland water bottles, but there are numerous sabritas bags and used diapers to be found.

At first we were concerned that the locals would figure the gringos will pick up everything, and matters might even get worse. Au contraire, almost everybody has caught the spirit. Cleaned-up areas stay clean, and the overall appearance of our Cantu seems to be improving, at least in small steps.

We're hoping our next outing will be more of an international effort. But whatever happens, it's worth the effort.

jim janet - 5-6-2007 at 12:10 PM

Janet and I have often thought of starting a serious campain to get coke and pepsi to start a refundable bottle return program,they do it in the rest of north america why not Baja.Would Mr.Gates consider a program to make plastic fence posts from all the bags that drift around?It would give some people the chance to make a little more moneyand provide employment
I also think that the largest portion of waste comes from the locals who are doing a great job in the last few years in cleaning up their messes

Iflyfish - 5-6-2007 at 05:50 PM

Great topic Shari. Something to really think about. How to be part of the solution and not the problem.

The plastic water bottles are a great convenience in many ways, but they are bulky and are a major source of polution in a place that does not recycle them. A large plastic refillable water jug would be difficult to use in our small motor home, but we will look at this possible solution. Any ideas of how to deal with the empty plastic bottles in Mexico? We sure went thru a lot on this trip. We recycle at the curb here in Oregon, makes it really easy.

What a great idea, plastic into fence posts. Why not?

Practical ideas like those on this thread are greatly appreciated.

Iflyfish

Hook - 5-6-2007 at 08:21 PM

Bajabound, here's the tip on milk.

At least up here, both Smart and Final and Costco are carrying 3 packs of 1/2 gallon containers of what is labeled organic milk. The two most prominent diaries are Horizon and Heritage. They have low fat versions. I always passed these 3-packs by, cause the wife and I only go through about a 1/2 gallon a week and we do end up throwing it out sometimes. Figured it was for larger families. But this milk is ultrapasteurized and the expiration date is approaching 2 months out. DELICIOUS milk and we have been confirmed Alta-Dena drinkers forever so we know good tasting milk.

Maybe they are at the S & F and Costcos down there?

[Edited on 5-7-2007 by Hook]

DianaT - 5-6-2007 at 09:00 PM

Such an interesting thread. Shari, you have some really good points. As you well know, we love your, and soon our, off the beaten track part of Baja.

We also love the fish market there and the grocery store, but there are some things we will still bring that are just not available there.

Trash?? Yes, when we lived in Honduras we learned how little trash we could generate in a week---in the US, too much packaging is a disaster. And yes, while the gringos can contribute to helping the trash problem, there also needs to be a local awareness and effort.

Along the main street of Bahia Asuncion there is a major effort to keep it clean, tidy, and pretty. Flowers and trees are planted and maintained, and the street is constantly swept. It is really quite wonderful.

However, along the beach and parts of the point there is too much trash. Jim Janet suggested a sponsored recycling program---that would be wonderful. Aluminun cans are not found on the beach---they are worth money, but cardboard, plastic bags, bottles, and other things are there---they were not put there by tourists, but yes, tourists need to not add to the problem. We will be picking up a lot when we are there.

Along that beautiful coast road to La Bocana, it is pristine, until one reaches the outskirts and then every bit of flora supports a plastic bag. It is a real mess. But there is always a light in the future. We are old enough to remember Tin Can Beach in Southern California and I grew up learning to murder cans and bottles with a 22 rifle out in the so called wasteland known as the California Desert. That has changed, thankfully, and it is beginning to change in Baja, and yes, we can all become a part of the solution, and not a part of the problem.

Milk? I always laugh when I hear about milk and it going bad. For years John would not let me drink or eat any milk products in Baja. In the 70's he did a graduate paper on the Dairy Industry in Mexicali and Tijuana---old scanned picture below. At that time, Mexico had the same safety regulations as did the US, but they were not enforced. The old Safeway (now a drug store) in Calexico used to have the highest total gross milk sales in all of the US. Most of it was sold to Mexicali residents.

We now buy milk in Baja, but we are careful.

Good topic Shari---we all need to look at what we do, and how we can help solve some of the problems. Sometimes I think that many people in Baja are just so used to their surroundings, that they don't truly appreciate the wonders of the area. On the other hand, we north of the border have seen the march of development and its effects.

Just my thoughts.
Diane

Old scanned picture of a Mexicali Dairy Processing Plant from John's Paper. Don't you love those old cars?



[Edited on 5-7-2007 by jdtrotter]

shari - 5-7-2007 at 08:59 AM

We have been slowly trying to educate our neighbours to at least think about the garbage issue...they truly don't see it as a problem so I talk to them gently about how others perceive it...our village is in transition at the moment and most see low impact tourism as a positive thing to help the economy here...so we discuss how the villagers can participate. The mayor has put garbage cans around and got the school kids to do clean ups which has made a big difference, and the junk cars are slowly disappearing too. I would love to see the use of recycle cloth grocery bags again. When our immersion teen groups come, they get together with the local kids to do beach clean ups too and this has a positive impact on them. But yes, all those unrecyclable plastic bottles and beer bottles are a huge problem. But poco a poco baja is awakening.

DianaT - 5-7-2007 at 09:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
We have been slowly trying to educate our neighbours to at least think about the garbage issue...they truly don't see it as a problem so I talk to them gently about how others perceive it...our village is in transition at the moment and most see low impact tourism as a positive thing to help the economy here...so we discuss how the villagers can participate. The mayor has put garbage cans around and got the school kids to do clean ups which has made a big difference, and the junk cars are slowly disappearing too. I would love to see the use of recycle cloth grocery bags again. When our immersion teen groups come, they get together with the local kids to do beach clean ups too and this has a positive impact on them. But yes, all those unrecyclable plastic bottles and beer bottles are a huge problem. But poco a poco baja is awakening.


One thing we noticed was how tidy the schools are, so as you say, it is in transition and it always starts with the youth.

Just can't wait to get back down there!

Diane

shari - 5-7-2007 at 09:20 AM

I guess what I was trying to get at in this post was to get people, particularly the newbies to baja, to think about what they bring down...I see lots of people brining tortillas here from the states?????Of course there are always things you will want to bring but just think about it...oh yeah, again I mention a new whole wheat, seedy, 7 grain delicious new bimbo bread with flaxseed too. If we get it fresh here in asuncion, I imagine you can get it most anywhere. The milk is delicious but does go off faster so just buy quarts instead of gallons. Mexicans buy differently, they buy for the day fresh and go to the store several times a day...kind of a social thing too...whereas gringos go once and buy cartloads at a time...big packages of stuff...need big fridges etc...different lifestyle here.

Bajagypsy - 5-7-2007 at 10:27 AM

I never bring food from home when we go down, I like to support the towns we go to, and everything tastes soooo much better in Baja, maybe it's the tequila that makes it so?:saint:

Iflyfish - 5-7-2007 at 10:49 AM

I recall the year that plastic bags were introduced into Mexico. It happened all at once. Everyone used to carry sisel bags and rabossos, my Spanish spelling sucks worse than my English. You would see nearly every woman in Mexico carrying things in the sisel bags, rebossos or on the head. The landscape was not littered, or was only minimally so, mostly beer cans and bottles.

The countryside changed in that one year. Plastic everywhere. EVERYWHERE. In my life time.

I noticed that in California there are signs saying, $1,000 fine for littering.
The stick as well as the carrot.

Asuncion is one of the cleaner towns I have visited in Mexico and it is not too late. Good to hear of your work and that of the Mayor and the school kids. Kids in school here are taught about respect for the enviornment and to recycle. Good to get em while they are young. The clean up day with the visiting kids is also a great idea.

I noticed on this list that Mulege had a "river clean up day", I know that this was post hurricane, but wonder if it is a yearly event. The Oregon Coast has a well organized Coast Clean Up Day where thousands volunteer to clean up litter. Works great. I also noticed that there are signs on the highways that designate that certain companies and families are responsible for keeping certain designated sections of road way clean.

I believe that there is increasing awareness in Mexico of this problem. I was in Mexico City a few years ago for the premier of our documentary on Adult ADHD. I read in one of the English language papers about how a group of children were organizing to pick up dog crap off the streets and sidewalks. The article stated that forty thousand pounds of dog crap goes into the air of Mexico City each day in the form of particulate matter. Dried dog crap in the air! I am not making this up. I was impressed both by the statistic and by the effort of these children.

There is no single solution, but lots of small ones that are required to address this issue. I appreciate your efforts.

I also understand that they are now producing plastic bags that decompose in a short period of time.

Iflyfish

Here's how they deal with this in L.A.

Hook - 5-7-2007 at 11:05 AM

Totes goods, saves the planet, costs a bunch
By Shawn Hubler, Times Staff Writer
May 7, 2007


There's paper. There's plastic. Then there's the $960 reusable Hermes shopping bag.

Originally designed for discerning Europeans, it hits America this summer, and if it sounds like an exotic fluke, consider the new $843 grocery tote by Italian designer Consuelo Castiglioni of Marni.

Or the $495 organic cotton canvas shopper, due out in June from Stella McCartney.

Or the now-famous I'm Not a Plastic Bag by the British handbag designer Anya Hindmarch, which has been selling at more than 10 times its $15 price on EBay.

Or even the latest addition to Trader Joe's lineup: a bright blue-and-green print polypropylene supermarket sack that has been flying off the shelves at $1.99.

In a confluence of politics, eco-consciousness, fashion and global commerce, yet another great, green notion appears poised for mainstream consideration: the bring-your-own shopping bag.

Until recently, those sturdy cloth totes that are common in Europe were mostly confined in this country to farmers markets and health food co-ops (and even there, only in the sternest, oat-iest styles and colors). Now, whether they are chic and pricey or cheap and cheerful, they are vehicles for a range of self-expression.

Part of the impetus is environmental. Among the ecologically minded, the paper-or-plastic question is an evergreen dilemma. Paper bags mean dead trees and paper-factory pollution, but most plastic bags are derived from petroleum and create litter that clogs landfills and takes as long as a thousand years to decompose.

Earlier this year, San Francisco became the first major U.S. city to ban the use of non-biodegradable plastic grocery bags. Since then, cities from Boston to Berkeley have taken up similar proposals. Los Angeles County is studying options ranging from an outright ban to better education on recycling; the city of Los Angeles is considering a pilot program with the state in which grocery chains would distribute reusable, subsidized canvas totes.

But the trend toward reusable shopping bags has also gotten a push from the fashion industry, particularly in Europe, where consumers tend to grocery-shop daily and laws encourage bag reuse — and where designers have seized on the old-style tote bag like stylists going to work on an aging hippie in a beauty salon.

A spokeswoman for Hermes, for example, said that their new Silky Pop, a hand-wrought silk tote that collapses into a wallet-size pouch of calfskin, was intended as a high-end alternative to the extra fold-up shopping bag that many European women already carry in their purses. ("Say you're out walking. You decide to pick up a few apples, you pull out your bag," she explained, then quickly added: "Though obviously, Hermes clients usually aren't shopping for their own groceries.")

The Stella McCartney organic canvas shopper is both an expression of the designer's eco-consciousness and a luxury handbag, according to her spokeswoman.

Castiglioni said her foldable nylon bag was inspired both by the desire to discourage the use of plastic and by her upbringing: "Reusable shopping bags are common in the Italian food shopping tradition," she explained via e-mail.

Meanwhile, the I'm Not a Plastic Bag, a canvas shopping bag bearing the aforementioned saying, grew out of a 2004 campaign by a London nonprofit to persuade the public there to make small lifestyle changes to benefit the environment. The campaign, WeAreWhatWeDo .org, asked consumers to reduce the number of plastic bags they were using and recruited Hindmarch, a luxury handbag designer, to create a fashionable alternative for shoppers. The bag sold out within days of its debut.

This month's Vogue mentions all four in a call to arms of sorts, urging fashionistas to become more bag-wise: "No loitering, girls," contributing editor Sarah Mower exhorted. "Today, let us go out and harness the power of fashion to change the way the nation shops. One stylish act of rebellion in supermarkets, delis, drugstores and designer emporiums and at market stalls is all it takes: Say no to plastic bags. Whip out your own brilliant alternative. Make people stare. Break a habit. Set a trend."

Whether consumers in the U.S. will obey is another question. Plastic bags are taxed in Ireland. British supermarket customers are commonly rewarded with small prizes and discounts for bringing their own bags or recycling old ones. A plastic bag ban goes into effect later this year in Paris, with the rest of France to follow by 2010.

But the U.S. isn't Europe. Tote bags brim from the nation's closets and clutter the nation's doorknobs, and most Americans still find it inconvenient to haul them back and forth to the supermarket.

"I've got teenagers," said Andy DeVilling, vice president of sales for Superbag, a major plastic bag manufacturer in Texas, who believes that recycling is a better answer.

"I just don't know how I'm going to take 10 or 12 reusable bags to the grocery store once a week."

Nonetheless, the hope, both among activists and designers, is that Americans might consider even a small shift in the habits that are driving nearly 90% of the market to take purchases home in disposable plastic. (That's 19 billion castoff plastic bags a year in California alone.)

At Trader Joe's near Orange County's Crystal Cove, 33-year crew member Mike McGrath said he had seen a noticeable increase in personal bag use — possibly driven, he added, by the store's monthly raffle that awards a $50 gift certificate to customers who bring their own totes.

In nearby Corona del Mar, a stand near the Albertsons checkout counter was offering reusable brown store-brand bags, 10 for $10; checkers there said customers are using them more and more.

"We want to help humanity kick the single-use bag habit," joked Andy Keller, a former software salesman from Chico, Calif., whose $4.99 pocket-size ChicoBags have been selling briskly at Bristol Farms and other outlets. Though the gem-colored collapsible bags moved slowly at first, he said, they have since taken off as more stores have begun to stock them and schools and nonprofits have picked them up as novelty fundraising items.

It hasn't hurt, he added, that initiatives like the one in San Francisco have raised consciousness or that Oprah Winfrey suggested reusable bags on a recent environment-themed program.

"It must be some kind of tipping point," Keller said. "We're seeing, like, a 30% growth in sales since the beginning of the year, month over month."

Boutique owner Ron Herman, one of a handful of American merchants who'll be carrying the U.S. version of Hindmarch's I'm Not a Plastic Bag when it arrives this summer, is similarly upbeat. Herman said he pre-sold more than 100 in less than 20 minutes to his e-mail customers last week.

And Wendy Bryan, a West L.A. graphic designer, promises that reusing bags can pay off. She recently won her local Trader Joe's bring-your-own-bag raffle — and hers wasn't even a Hermes. "Just an old 'I Love New York' bag with this really dumb underwater scene on one side," she said.

shawn hubler@latimes.com