BajaNomad

Baja Fishing Primer 2--Let's Talk Tuna

BajaBruno - 5-17-2007 at 06:36 AM


I think everyone knows that tuna are associated with dolphins, but I have a few questions on the whole topic:

Is it ALL dolphin, or just some special "tuna dolphin?"

The tuna supposedly travel under the dolphin--the question is, how do you get them to come up? Or do you go down with heavy lures?

Are you beside the dolphin, behind them, in front, where?

What birds, if any, are associated with tuna?

Any special water temperatures or locations?

Lures, leaders, techniques?

If the tuna are down low, is a downrigger effective to reach them? Say, trolling a big mackeral Rapala? Anybody using downriggers at all in Baja?

Thanks again for all the contributions to the knowledge base.

Alan - 5-17-2007 at 07:12 AM

I have caught tuna associated with several species of dolphin but I don't know if one species is more likely to hold tuna than another. The one thing I have noticed is that schools of dolphin that come over to play in the boat wake don't usually hold tuna. I know, never say never, but one never for me is never troll through the dolphin school. (I compare it to driving through a paddy) It will put the tuna deep. Instead troll parallel about 50-75 yds to the side and try to get in front of the school then shut down and chum - Live bait if you have a good supply or chunks if you don't. Get some fly-lined baits into the water and wait while watching your meter to see if there is tuna under the dolphin.

When the tuna are deep you have to do whatever you can to get them and your presentation in the same zone. You can try chumming - live bait or chunks to bring them up and if that doesn't work you need to send your bait or a jig down to them.

For lures I prefer the 5-6" Zuker feathers rigged with 80# changing out colors until I find what is preferred. I like them because they troll nice and straight so you can run and gun when you find breaking fish. I do have a Yozuri plastic skirted blue-white-silver jet head that is usually deadly and alway in the spread. Many times I will also run a plain unpainted cedar plug long down the middle.

Minnow - 5-17-2007 at 07:23 AM

You need to start with the three main species of tuna. Bluefin, Yellowfin, and Albacore. Don't for get the big eye's though.

Each one favors different water temp.

Lets face it, you can catch tuna on a banana peel when they are in feeding frenzy.

I believe common dolphin are most often associated with tuna schools, but it depends on the location you are at and the species of tuna you are fishing for.

Tuna birds are those little brown suckers, don't know the name other than tuna birds. They will be found with the dolphin, but you can spot them farther away.

I have a great article on care of tuna, once caught, that I will post on this thread as soon as I can dig it up.

I have a friend who swears by downrigging in any condition. Once caught a Marlin on a downrigged Maurader.

Cedar plug, Cedar plug, Cedar plug.

[Edited on 17-5-2007 by Minnow]

Proper Care.

Minnow - 5-17-2007 at 08:12 AM

This was originally posted by Cabo Captain on the old Amigos de baja.

No fishing today so I've got some time. I used to rod and reel bluefin off the northeast coast of the U. S. for the Japanese shshimi market. I learned how to handle tuna properly for that market from the Japanese buyers. I wrote about and made diagrams of how this is done in my book, 'The Art of Chunking Tuna", written back in 94 and now out of print. Skipping aoo the scientific stuff and cutting directly to the meat of the matter, here's the simple version of the story.

In order to get the very best quality tuna meat, be it for sushi, steaks, or whatever, it is imperative to destroy what I will call here, "the internal body heater". If this is not done the systems within the dead fish will continue to create internal body heat that denegrates the flesh.

First, though, prime eating fish must be taken rapidly before, 'burning' occurs during the fight and the delicate meat is ruined as far as those who really know what quality tuna meat tastes like are concerned, and Japanese sashimi grade tuna buyers certainly qualify in that regard.

They do not Grade the fish, other than determining whether it is acceptable quality, in which case they were willing to pay remarkable to astronomical prices for them. If the flesh is burnt, they will not off a dime for it. Nuff said.

For those interested , this generally meant we had to beat a giant tuna that averaged eight hundred pounds in less that fifteen or twenty minutes. This meant, "balls to the wall", outright warfare with 130 two speeds on bent butts with 130# line having perfect connections, drag settings of 73 to 85#s in unlimited chairs with the boat handler who knew his stuff and an angler who knew what he was about.

Good, alley fighting , and hand to hand combat struff! Great fun and very rewarding financially, but I am sorry now that I did it. The bluefin are in dire straits because of hat I and people like me did back then and what others are doing now.

Eating, (not just sashimi, put just plain, old, eating) tuna should be gaffed in the head, then put gently on the deck to prevent bruising the meat. Then a sharp knife should be used to sever the tail ligaments just in front of the tail. Don't cut the tail off. Just cut down to the spine on each side of the fish a few inches ahead of the tail. This will keep if from pounding it's tail and side on the deck.

The next two cuts are made on the lateral line, just under each pectoral fin. Poke the tip of a knife on the line. Pinch the blade sideways between your thumb and forefinger with only and inch of so of the tip sticking out. This will prevent you from poking too deeply and puncturing the body cavity.

Hold the knife blade up and down, rather than lengthwise. You are cutting into that dark, bloody line of meat and the blood will flow copiously if you make the cut right. Experiment a bit and you will get it. This must be done while the tuna's heart is still beating, because the heart must be pumping to pumg the blood out. Kill the fish and stop the heart and you can try to bleed it all you want to , but you will only succeed minimally. Don't conk a tuna you want to eat!

Give the fish some time to bleed out. Once the blood stops flowing or slows dramatically it's time to kill that internal body heater of theirs. Feel around on the , "forehead" of the tuna of any kind and you will notice a soft area hear the top. Take a sharp knife and cut a "V" shaped wedge of flesh away from it. Look or feel inside with the fingertip and you will notice a hole. It travels all the way down the inside of the spine.

Cut a piece of heavy cable or mono loner than the fish. Insert one end into the hole, then push it through the spine until it stops at the tail end. Slide it up and down while twisting it a bit and you will destroy the nerves that control the heater.

If the heart is still beating at this juncture (the blood flow will tell you that it is, or not) , carefully remove the gills by cutting them at their connection points at the top and bottom and removing them. Be careful not to slice the heart when you do this. And yes, it might still be beating and pumping blood out.

There are several final steps taken with giants, but you need not be concerned about them with yellowfin.

When you have completed the above steps, gut the fish, then stuff the body cavity with a sack or sacks of ice (not loose ice-ice made from freshwater is not goo for tuna meat), put put it in a cooler with ice packed around it and chill the fish deeply before you cut it up.

Rapid cooling is best performed in a brine solution, which has been discussed on this board previously. However, though icing will suffice, especially for smaller tuna under a hundred pounds.

Phew! Sounds like a lot of work, doesn't it? But yah know somethin'? The Japanese sashimi buyers ain't payin' something on the order of fifty or more bucks a pund for whole tuna( with the heads)and not one thin dime a pound for ones that have been fought too long, then not cared for properly for nothing. And these guys know more about taking care of tuna than all of the rest of us put together!

In the final analysis , the above steps are simple and can be done quickly once you get used to them. And the simple truth is, once you start taking care of tuna you want to eat in this way I'm sure you will agree with m and the handful of others who do these things- There is a huge, gigantic difference in the taste. One that is well worth the small amount of effort and preparation required.

As for the scientific mumbo-jumbo and the why's and wherefore's of why tuna and other, "warm bodied" fishes are the way they are, I will leave that to others to enlighten you on.

As for me, ther are some hundred pund class yellowfin showing up down here rith now. They are eating small, six inch squid and if you ain't trollin' spreader bars(SuperBars), you ain't gonna catch'em. So you don't have to worry about how to take care of one(and only one) that you want to take care of so it's the best danmed tuna you have eaten in your life.

Sashimi.or prepared as seared ahi. Lord have mercy!Lemme at 'em!

God Bless Cabo San Lucas!

[Edited on 17-5-2007 by Minnow]

Skipjack Joe - 5-17-2007 at 08:24 AM

Disgusting! I'm unimpressed by this expert. Maiming and bleeding a live animal to insure the best flesh quality. I respect fishermen too much for that.

Minnow - 5-17-2007 at 08:26 AM

If this disgusts you, you need a different hobby.:lol: Thats the facts of what it takes to make sushi grade tuna. Gawd, you bleeding hearts kill me.

Cypress - 5-17-2007 at 08:34 AM

Thanks Minnow! The Hull Truth site had a detailed description very similar to your info. :yes:

Hook - 5-17-2007 at 08:41 AM

I think that was an Archer post from the old board. He's pretty old school.

Minnow - 5-17-2007 at 08:50 AM

You nailed it hook. Fred Archer, was Cabo Captn. Ran two 35ft sportfishers out of Cabo in the Nineties. $1,500 per day.This post is from March 2001. We lost Fred in 2003. Good ole boy. His belief in spreader bars really set him apart. Not only that he was the only Captn. I know of that had fresh Ballyhoo flown in from Florida. I miss him. He would be a great asset now. I wonder if we could talk Fang into digging up all of his posts from Amigos'?

Skipjack Joe - 5-17-2007 at 10:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Minnow
If this disgusts you, you need a different hobby.:lol: Thats the facts of what it takes to make sushi grade tuna. Gawd, you bleeding hearts kill me.


.. and you need a different mouth. :moon:

I've been fishing all my life and don't need you telling me about the ethics of the sport (assuming you have any).

I don't a rat's a$$ what's required for 'sushi grade tuna'. If this is what it takes to get it, it's wrong.

A sportsman who doesn't respect his game is nothing to me. Blood sports need ethics or they become just barbaric and savagery. Cutting and removing parts of the living animal is just that. There's a reason why fishermen bring a 'priest' along.

If you wish to continue on this topic I suggest another thread. This one's about techniques for catching tuna.

Minnow - 5-17-2007 at 11:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

.. and you need a different mouth. :moon:

I've been fishing all my life and don't need you telling me about the ethics of the sport (assuming you have any).

I don't a rat's a$$ what's required for 'sushi grade tuna'. If this is what it takes to get it, it's wrong.

A sportsman who doesn't respect his game is nothing to me. Blood sports need ethics or they become just barbaric and savagery. Cutting and removing parts of the living animal is just that. There's a reason why fishermen bring a 'priest' along.

If you wish to continue on this topic I suggest another thread. This one's about techniques for catching tuna.


The title of this post is lets talk tuna. Just like the bleeding hearts to pick one point then when it's rebutted say that we shouldn't even be talking about it.

I would argue that the ultimate respect for your game is to preserve it to the highest degree. You obviously feel respecting it is making sure he feels good before you kill it.:lol:

You are on the wrong website. Here is a link that you will find more to your liking.

FishingHurts.com:lol:

Roberto - 5-17-2007 at 12:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Minnow
You nailed it hook. Fred Archer, was Cabo Captn. Ran two 35ft sportfishers out of Cabo in the Nineties. $1,500 per day.This post is from March 2001. We lost Fred in 2003.


I knew he had a heart attack in Cabo and had to be flown back to the states in 2003 (I think), but I don't think he's dead. I've seen him post on www.swordfishingcentral.com pretty recently.

Cypress - 5-17-2007 at 12:35 PM

Killing, fish, fowl, or otherwise isn't a fun thing.:spingrin: If you're gonna enjoy meat/fish etc. it's part of the process. Not pretty, not easy. :)

tripledigitken - 5-17-2007 at 01:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by whistler
I forgot to mention,Bob passed away a few years back and I miss him dearly.


Whistler,

Didn't know Bob, but sure miss his stores. Nothing in San Diego has replaced them. Always liked those Radon boats by the way.

Ken

Minnow - 5-17-2007 at 01:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
I knew he had a heart attack in Cabo and had to be flown back to the states in 2003 (I think), but I don't think he's dead. I've seen him post on www.swordfishingcentral.com pretty recently.


I tried to find him the last time I was in Cabo, and was told he had died. Both is boats were gone too.

Turns out rumors of his death were greatly exagerated. Check out the list of instructors in this link. Sorry Fred.:lol:

http://www.nationalseminarseries.com/instructors.htm

Fred is also posting here.

http://www.sportfishermen.com/

[Edited on 17-5-2007 by Minnow]

Skipjack Joe - 5-17-2007 at 01:39 PM

Sorry gents - I can't agree with you on this one. Everyone has his/her boundaries. I'll go up to the edge and stop. I never want to lose sight of what's at the base of the sport. Once you do that you lose your humanity.

I read the fishinghurts site and it really has nothing to do with anything here. Those people are unreal. I'm not convinced that fishing does hurt and never have believed it.

But cutting up a living animal bit by bit so that it dies slowly and preserves it's flavor for you. That's too much. That's not my sport. I'm willing to sacrifice flavor in order not to do that.

I was fishing tuna from a Tony Reyes panga a few years back. The guide would throw our catch on deck after every hooked fish. We soon ran out of lures or bait, I don't remember. He takes a live tuna, slices a section out of it's belly (a very good bait, BTW) and casts. The fish is flopping around on deck with it's intestines coming out. I motion to the man for the fish. He hands it to me and I give it a good wack across the head. The guide just stared at me blankly. Now that's what I'm talking about. The man has been fishing so long that he's lost sight of what he's dealing with. That can happen to anyone who fishes a long time.

bill erhardt - 5-17-2007 at 01:42 PM

I ususally run into yellowfin tuna once or twice a year fishing out of Loreto and about every other time that I fish in the Pacific outside Mag Bay. I've found them under many kinds of porpoise or no porpoise at all. As a general rule, however, if you find spinner dolphin, get your cedar plugs out. I have only fished for tuna on the troll and if I catch the first fish on a marlin feather I switch to cedar plugs. I do that because they seem to like cedar plugs as much as they like any trolled lure. Also, cedar plugs cost less than $10 and it is impossible to to hurt them. The more chewed up they are the better the YF like them. A $40 marlin lure that has been hit by half dozen tuna, however, is much the worse for wear. A cedar plug also serves as its own handy handle for removing the hook so you can get your lines back out while the fish are still up. Here is a picture of my very happy sister-in-law with a boatload of yellowfin we caught in my 17' Mckee Craft about 40 miles NE of Loreto on a choppy day in October, 2005.

sharon&tunabn2.JPG - 50kB

Cypress - 5-17-2007 at 01:48 PM

You probably should have kept those fish on ice.:spingrin:

bill erhardt - 5-17-2007 at 01:53 PM

Cypress....... You are right about that. We had no ice aboard but we did keep them in the fishbox with the lid as closed as we could get it as it filled up. On the way back to the marina we ducked in behind Coronado out of the chop and took them out for a photo op. Maybe they were not sushi quality but they canned up nicely.

Hook - 5-17-2007 at 01:59 PM

Bill E, do you have any preference on the cedar plugs......natural or purp and black; jet head or standard head?

AmoPescar - 5-17-2007 at 02:20 PM

Baja Bruno...

This was my reply from a past topic about dolphin behavior.

Regarding Dolphins and Tunas…

I’ve seen the schools of Dolphins and Yellowfin Tuna swimming and working together on several occasions, and it’s an amazing site to see them working together and leaping out of the water.

The most amazing sighting of this was on our first trip out of the East Cape. My son and I were fishing on a Panga and had already had a great day of fishing - smaller Yellowfins, Dorados, Wahoo and Sailfish - when the skipper got a radio call that the BIG school of Yellowfin (and Dolphins) had been found a few miles away. We raced out there at full throttle and as we reached the area, saw an amazing site…

Every direction you looked for hundreds of yards, there were hundreds and hundreds of Dolphins and giant Yellowfin Tuna speeding along and leaping out of the water. And of course, our boat was immediately surrounded by lots of Dolphins racing along with us and crisscrossing our bow.

Our skipper positioned us in the front of the school and we tossed out live baits, which were instantly inhaled by large Yellowfins. Unfortunately, we were some what out gunned, as we only had brought our medium weight rods and reels with us that day. My son (age 12) fought and lost a couple of big ones, and I lost 1 and successfully landed an 88 pounder.

On subsequent trips, we've never been able to experience a day - or trip, where we had as much fun, or as good of a day of fishing, as that one. It’s never been equaled for seeing the beauty and power of nature, or for the quantity and mixture of fish caught.


Amo Pescar :spingrin: :O :biggrin:

AmoPescar - 5-17-2007 at 02:40 PM

KEEPING YOUR CATCH COLD AND FRESH???

Does anyone remember whether there was a thread about this posted on this board? OR...was it posted on the old Amigo's board??

It was a very informative posting about keeping your catch cold in your cooler using a mixture of seawater and ice. The saltwater's salinity level really helps to lower the water temperature in the cooler, thus keeping your catch much fresher.

I tried to search for it, but no luck. If anyone knows about it or participated in it, maybe you could repost it here. If not, it would be a great subject to start a thread on.


Amo Pescar :) :?: :D

bill erhardt - 5-17-2007 at 03:02 PM

Hook........ I use the natural cedar plug with the regular lead head. My experience using painted plugs is that after 4 or 5 tuna the paint is all chipped off anyway. Even when brand new I have not found that painted plugs get hit more than old chewed up ones. The biggest problem I have with cedar plugs is in the balance. If not balanced properly or if the hook is slightly bent they will rotate passing through the water and it does not take long to badly twist your line even using the best of swivels.

Pescador - 5-17-2007 at 08:10 PM

If you have active Short Beaked Common Dolphin, Delphinus Delphis, in the area and they are actively feeding, there may be tuna ahead of them. The real mark of fish is Spinner Dolphin but these are not seen very often in the baja waters.
When trolling for tuna, I like to use four lines in my spread. On the outside I drop further back from the boat and put a Marauder or Yo-zuri Magnum on one line while the other line gets a Sumo Budda 4". The two inside lines are clipped to downrigger clips mounted to my gunnel cleats and are fished shorter. The first one here usually gets a cedar plug while the other gets a Zuker Tuna Feather while the other one normally gets a Sumo Trolling Jet 4" - 6".
If there is any cloud cover or it is early morning with less light, I lean toward the darker colors like black, red, or purple. As the light increases I go to brighter colors like dorado, blue and white, etc.
If the water is flat and clear, I usually go a little faster to cover the water area, but if there is chop then I slow down a little, make sure that I still have good smoke trail on the appropriate lures, and generally put down something like a 111MR Mirrolure which makes some noise on the deeper line.
Last year we got into a tuna feed that was nothing short of amazing and they were feeding on small candlefish so our usual spread was a total bust and when we put out lighter lines with small castmasters, we had a limit with only two passes. So stay flexible.
If you are mad at the fish and want to get even, go ahead and clean them like Minnow but I prefer to lay them peacefully in the brine solution after a short whap on the head so that they don't bruise themselves.

Hook - 5-17-2007 at 08:44 PM

Jimbo, let us in on your secret for running lipped plugs with feathers. I like to troll at 8-12 knots and I just cant do both.

Roberto - 5-17-2007 at 09:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Jimbo, let us in on your secret for running lipped plugs with feathers. I like to troll at 8-12 knots and I just cant do both.


Since Fred Archer's name has come up in this thread (BTW, I think he actually RAN Shimano Product Development for a while), have you read any of his "high-speed trolling" stuff? Makes for interesting reading.

The man is one of a kind, that's for sure, and very creative when it comes to fishing techniques. He also has more water time that I will ever have.

[Edited on 5-18-2007 by Roberto]

aquaholic - 5-17-2007 at 09:06 PM

...anyone tried to skin and filet the tuna as you catch them..??? I have done this many times, and the quality is great. I skin, and then cut the 'good' part away from the red meat...4 pieces. Those I put into gallon size Zip Lock bags, and, then onto ice that I have brought along for that purpose. The meat cools down quickly, and it's excellent for sashimi or a tekamaki roll. If it's allowed to stay warm, the meat takes on a pepper taste, and then it's no bueno to eat...can't remember the name of the poisoning you can get, but getting it cool as soon as you can is the key...

aquaholic - 5-17-2007 at 09:08 PM

...ooops...I just remembered...the poisoning you can get is called "scombroid poisoning"...

Roberto - 5-17-2007 at 09:17 PM

Filleting as you catch - good idea, but what do you do in the middle of a wide open bite? After working to get the fish to come to the boat and feed, it's pretty hard (for me) to let them go away.

A technique that works really well is to kill and bleed the fish quickly (no, you can't get it all). There is a way to cut the fish and pull the intestines out through the mouth, and then fill the cavity with ice. Keeping the temp of the meat down is the key. Not doing it not only ruins the taste, but can cause scombroid poisoning, and that will only happen if the temperature of the meat is allowed to rise. Making a saltwater brine in the fishbox is a must. Albacore actually turns to inedible mush when that happens.

Once of the pleasures of fishing is eating the catch, and that means quality, not quantity. Those who have not eaten fresh-caught, properly treated and prepared fish so not know the difference between dogfood and fish. And tuna pretty quickly turns to dogfood.

Just my two cents.

My personal point of view:

1. take only what you can eat.
2. preserve it to the highest standards.
3. never fish overlimit.

When I have what I can eat, I stop fishing. Period. No catch-and-release for me. I release undersize fish before I have waht I came to get, but that's it.

Just my two cents.

Minnow - 5-18-2007 at 05:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto


1. take only what you can eat.
2. preserve it to the highest standards.
3. never fish overlimit.
.


I couldn't agree more. I guess it has come to light that many fishermen don't eat fish. or at least have a love for the taste of fish. To each his own I guess, but for me that is the greatest part about it. Knowing where you food is coming from, and harvesting it yourself. To not eat what you catch, and we all know not all caught fish can be released healthy enough to survive, means you are little better than the guys out there with the nets. Either fishing for your own macho reasons, or for somebody elses dinner table. Why would you care that the fish was preserved to the highest quality. Hell, you wouldn't even know what the difference was. One only needs to take a walk through the Ensenada fish market and see all of those rotting fish to realize that.

Alan - 5-18-2007 at 06:24 AM

Gosh I just love this board. Every post takes on a life of it's own. You never know where the simplist question is going to go. It's addictive. I guess I now understand the popularity of soap operas. You have to keep tuning in to see where the characters will take you so I'll just go with the flow.

I bleed my tuna as well. As quick as I can I cut through the gills. (Yes, even during a hot bite. It doesn't take long). Then as soon as time allows I quarter my fish as described by aquaholic and get them into a brine solution.

Is this sashimi grade? Don't know, don't care. I'm not a fan of bait on a plate but it sure makes a difference on the Bar-B-Q

[Edited on 5-18-2007 by Alan]

Pescador - 5-18-2007 at 11:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Jimbo, let us in on your secret for running lipped plugs with feathers. I like to troll at 8-12 knots and I just cant do both.


I use the Yo-Zuri Hydro Mag which is designed to go up to 25 knots, I believe, and have never had a problem with it pulling crooked. Occasionaly, I will have to true up the plug if I have a problem with it. I usually use a 6 ft stick with a 15KG Penn lever drag two speed and 50 lb line. It runs pretty deep and sometimes that is what goes off first. I have hit marilin and sails on this thing too but I prefer to watch the strike on the top.

Hook - 5-18-2007 at 12:30 PM

thanks, jim. I figured it was either that or some kind of Braid plug.

Al G - 5-18-2007 at 05:39 PM

Pompano...
http://www.charkbait.com/cs/images/lures/Yozuri/yozurihydrom...