Cobia - 5-17-2007 at 08:06 AM
There are conjecture and guesswork opinions in abundance on this thread.
My position is that fish ranching is wrong now meaning Tuna but fish ranching Dorado and Red Snapper is right. My reasons are the latter two are
commercial hatchlings moreover; they will eat pellets and do quite nicely. There will be many more specie in the future.
Tuna ranching only needs two rule changes to make it happen correctly. The ranchers must run a sardine hatching and rearing operation of sufficient
size to feed their tuna and they must learn how to hatch their own tuna and not catch from the wild stocks. This will eventually happen. As with any
new endeavor, there is still a lot to learn. There is a fish biology enterprise in several locations, La Paz, Guaymas etceteras funded by Sonora and
Baja Sur that are studying the problems. There is a pellet maker is Guadalajara now.
The eight-year study going on now of the Tuna ranching is the correct move for Mexico. They are desperately trying to solve the problems as described
herein. They are working on a pen with a catch basin below to gather the waste. Fertilizer will be the result.
This is the wave of the future and Mexico has locations to supply the world with fresh fish. Be patient this enterprise could and should employ many
thousands of poor Mexicans foster education and generally raise the standard of living in the area.
Cobia
Iflyfish - 5-17-2007 at 10:03 AM
Very interesting post.
I hope that what you say transpires, however when one reads of the new laws allowing for massive longlines in the Sea of Cortez, one wonders if human
greed will ever allow for the resolution of these problems. Good to read a hopeful post.
Iflyfish
mtgoat666 - 5-17-2007 at 11:24 AM
problem with feeding pellets to fish is what's in the pellets. For instance, farm salmon has high PCBs, because of what's in pellets. who wants to
buy farm fish, if you can't trust what's being fed to farm fish?
other problem is that sea floor below ALL fish farms is a death zone of organic detritus from overlying farm.
Sharksbaja - 5-17-2007 at 12:11 PM
That's right. There are a whole bunch of fish farmers, mostly catfish and atlantic salmon, that have been feeding plastic to the fish. It's actually
melamine added to boost protein. This has been going on for quite some time,
IN THIS COUNTRY!
Cypress - 5-17-2007 at 12:19 PM
Digest plastic? Do they poop popcorn insulation?
AmoPescar - 5-17-2007 at 04:12 PM
FISH FARMING and FISH RANCHING...
Whether we agree with it or not, as the population of the earth continues to grow "AQUACULTURE" will play an ever growing and more important role in
providing PROTEIN to the populations of our world.
For far TOO LONG, we have depleted the fish populations of the seas. The practices of the commercial fisherman and to some degree sportsfishermen,
have destroyed the future hope of having sustainable quantities to feed us. And in recent years, global warming has played it's part in making the
situation worse.
We ALL need to do our part to try and turn around this trend. We need to be proactive in any way we can, whether it means passing on our favorite fish
at the restaurant, or by being more actively involved in writing to elected officials, participating in marches, or making a donation to your favorite
save the earth group.
I know that some of you, especially some fishermen, will label me a bleeding heart, tree hugger, or whatever. Well...I can handle that.
But...as much as I like to fish, I know that in the past, I haven't always practiced good fishing habits and conservation. There were times when I
caught much more than I needed for eating and a lot of my catch was wasted. And even today, there's still a lot of conservation practices which the
fishing public needs to be educated about and put into practice.
Looking forward to reading your replys!!
Amo Pescar 
[Edited on 5-17-2007 by AmoPescar]
Iflyfish - 5-17-2007 at 05:12 PM
Ditto AmoPescar, and well said.
We are all in a learning curve!
I recall some poor closing hour decisions made in bars too.
Maybe this is why we are all flat in the front of our heads. Millenia of mankind bumping their heads in poor decisions.
Thanks for posting.
Iflyfish
great responses
Cobia - 5-18-2007 at 06:39 PM
I too am a tree hugger of sorts. I truely believe in open ocean fish farming, especially in Mexico. I would like to see the gov't put in a a sardine
hatchery. They are easy to hatch and get started. Do it in massive quantities and attract more pelagic fish to baja. Then stop the wild harvest of
sardines. Sportfishing and commercial fishing would go wild.
Several years ago in Guaymas they used to pack 3 sardines to a can now its 5 to 7. They are stripping the hatch of sardines. No food no fish it is
as simple as that.
Cobia
sardine food
Cobia - 5-20-2007 at 09:38 AM
Sardines eat brine shrimp. Brine shrimp eat plankton. I'll find a web site if you want to know more. There are commercial sellers of brine shrmp
eggs. They come in dry and will keep virtually forever.
Raising Brine shrimp and sardines is not a difficult thing nor does it take up a lot of room.
I have reseached this as far as I can.
Cobia
Cypress - 5-20-2007 at 10:28 AM
Aquaculture! 
Shrimp, crawfish, sturgeon, catfish, tilapia, trout, oysters the
list grows each year. 
The problem seem to arise from the fish pens etc.
in public waters.
jerry - 5-20-2007 at 12:40 PM
everything is being farmed simply because its a more effecent way of producing food ,beef, hogs, chickens, and all the feed to produce these are
farmed could you imagine if it was left to chance just turn it all the animals loose let the reseeding of plants happen naterally and harvest as
needed??it would controll the human population for sure
all types of farming has waist allso but with tecnolagy it can be transfered into fertilizer
i dont understand why in baja at least in loreto as well as the oregon coast that the fish waist that used to be put back into the sea feeding crabs
and other sea life is now being hauled to land fills??
aquaholic - 5-20-2007 at 12:55 PM
...the Sea of Cortes has a huge amount of diversity due to it's nutrient upwelling currents. For man to try to add to the potential by adding a
nutrient source along the food chain (one species, or another) would be a waste of time and money. ANY ecological system can support only so much
biomass, with the top of the pyramid usually being what man wants to harvest. It's akin to when clean farming reduced the populations of pheasants,
and hunters wanted to release pen raised birds to add to the overall population...did it work?? No, because only so much can be sustained in any given
ecosystem. The trick to managing any ecosystem is to harvest only the surplus. A CLOSED system (such as a catfish pond) is the only way to logically
make aquaculture work. I see great problems when a top-of-the-food-chain species (ie. tuna) is the desired end product. It'll cost more to produce the
food species required and raise the tuna than the end product will bring in dollars. What none of us want to see is wild forage species being taken
for pen fish, at the expense of wild populations...
Don Alley - 5-20-2007 at 03:47 PM
Feeding the penned stock: Harvest forage fish, threatening a vital link in the food web for wild fish.
Or use land agriculture based pellets, adding nutrients to systems that may already be showing signs of nutrient overloading from agricultural runnoff
and municipal wastes.
Maybe add some synthetic chemicals to the food while you're at it.
And of course, you can't have fish farms without private property, coming to a seashore, or offshore, near you.
Eventually, they'll mess it all up for a quick buck. And we'll be left with...
aquaholic - 5-20-2007 at 05:54 PM
...Lencho...a great example of how the poor suffer through the economic consequenses of the world's goverments' policies is the price of masa..and,
the tortillas that are a staple...
Russ - 2-17-2010 at 06:12 AM
A little more fish farming info from the LA Times 2/14.
"But raising fish in tight quarters carries some serious risks. Disease and parasites can be transmitted from farmed to wild fish. Effluents,
antibiotics and other chemicals can be discharged into surrounding waters. Nonnative farmed fish can escape into wild fish habitat. And a reliance on
wild-caught fish in aquaculture feed can deplete food supplies for other marine life."
Source: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-naylor1...
Osprey - 2-17-2010 at 07:22 AM
Wow, this thread really rings my bell. In my book A Sensitive Sea I take the reader from 1997 to 2032, each chapter a snapshot of what changes we may
see (not me - I'm 73). In the chapter covering 2026 I invision a fish farm in the Northern Gulf that uses the Encantada Islands as the perimeter of a
very large pen/farm. The dorado raised and processed there eat pellets made from ground up fish carcasses. The Japanese invent ways to teach the fry
to eat with the tides to make the feeding process time and location specific for more protein conversion efficiency. I didn't deal with waste because
the water is fairly deep, good tides/currents. (and I didn't think of it). It always pleases me to see that some of my predictions have come true,
some are headed my way. I wrote the book in 2001.
mtgoat666 - 2-17-2010 at 11:24 AM
All manufactured meat (fish, chicke, cows, pig) is raised in abominable factory process, the manufactured critters eat all sorts of horrible crap and
drugs, the meats are laced with all sorts in industrial chemicals, many chemicals are emerging toxins (little known, little studied).
After we destroy earth and move to moon or mars, we will all be eating algae and lichen, only algae and lichen.
Iflyfish - 2-17-2010 at 07:18 PM
Give me mine with chipotle please.
Iflyfish