BajaNomad

Lot for lease/sale in Juncalito

SeaRay - 5-23-2007 at 02:35 PM

1092 sq. meter lot in north Juncalito with views of Sea of Cortez, Isla Carmen, fig beach and Juncalito bay. Lot currently has a 18x21 block building with a toilet and septic tank....building ideal for storage. Seller has built a rock wall foundation and has plans drawn for a 1000 square foot casa. Plenty of room for RV and boat. Six years remain on a 10-year lease in which the landlord has signed that he will renew and/or transfer to a new tenant. Seller asking $10K for cost of improvements plus the prorated yearly lease of $2369 paid through April 1, 2008.

[Edited on 6-18-2007 by SeaRay]

[Edited on 6-18-2007 by SeaRay]

elizabeth - 5-23-2007 at 02:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SeaRay
Six years remain on a 10-year lease that is guaranteed renewable and transferable.


No such thing as a "guaranteed renewable" lease. Not legally possible.

DENNIS - 5-23-2007 at 03:43 PM

No way ---

Renewables arn't enforcible in court. Plus the fact that everybody involved has to be legal in Mexico.
You just can't sell it to anybody.
Is it a lease or rental agreement?

[Edited on 5-23-2007 by DENNIS]

rhintransit - 5-24-2007 at 07:31 AM

a bump for my neighbors up the beach. El Juncalito is a special little place.

SeaRay - 5-24-2007 at 12:00 PM

It's a lease agreement, written by Loreto Solutions, with a renewable clause. Whether it is legal or not in Mexico, I don't know.

No illegals apply!!!

Shouldn't this tread be titled "Lot for Lease"?

tripledigitken - 5-24-2007 at 12:15 PM

This thread is proof of the adventure that is Mexican Real Estate. Not for the timid.


Ken

DENNIS - 5-24-2007 at 12:29 PM

Not for the timid or the uninformed. We North Americans have a tendency to translate business and law in Mexico to our own framework of knowledge. In cases such as this, we think of the term, LEASE, to have the same legal clout they have in the states. They do, as much or more but, they arn't drawn up in a sales office. They are composed in the office of a Notario Publico, signed and sealed with the emblem of the nation.

We accept these sales office agreements as having the backing of the law because that's what we have been taught in the states. But, they don't. They are no better than a handshake. Hopefully, everything works as we think it should but, if it doesn't, we have no recourse.

I don't understand why this remains such a well guarded secret. Probably because we hear and believe what makes us feel good.

elizabeth - 5-24-2007 at 01:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SeaRay
It's a lease agreement, written by Loreto Solutions, with a renewable clause. Whether it is legal or not in Mexico, I don't know.



The agreement can have a renewable clause but it can't be enforced. If both parties agree, they can enter into a second 10 year lease agreement. Under Mexican law you cannot have a lease for more than 10 years (actually, it's a day less, but for ease, we'll say 10). Any attempt to circumvent that law with renewable clauses is simply not enforceable. Any notario or Mexican lawyer can tell you. that. You can also do the Mexican law research yourself.

Martyman - 5-25-2007 at 11:57 AM

I recently made a handshake deal for a ten year lease in Bahie de LA. We are not using a notario. Sounds like there is no reason to. We pay by the year so if our landlord decides to end the lease-no biggee- we go get our stuff and leave.
It sounds a lot easier than fideocomiso fees but then we don't get and property appreciation.
Just rambling...

DENNIS - 5-25-2007 at 12:19 PM

Most often, in these days of crazy property values in Baja, a land owner won't get into a real lease because he's bound to it as well. They rent to keep control of what may be happening tomorrow. The bank trust is only available if the owner wants to sell.

Martyman ....... You're in it with the right attitude.

neilmac - 5-25-2007 at 04:10 PM

Are you putting any improvements on the property?

The lot Searay was talking about had plans and a foundation for a house... So I assume someone's going to build on it. If it's the lessee, he stands to lose his investment as soon as the lease is up.... If he DOESN'T have a lease, he stands to lose it somewhat sooner.

An old baja hand I knew always said he'd never own anything in Mexico that he couldn't hook up to his truck and tow back across the border.

Neil
Quote:
Originally posted by Martyman
I recently made a handshake deal for a ten year lease in Bahie de LA. We are not using a notario. Sounds like there is no reason to. We pay by the year so if our landlord decides to end the lease-no biggee- we go get our stuff and leave.
It sounds a lot easier than fideocomiso fees but then we don't get and property appreciation.
Just rambling...

DENNIS - 5-25-2007 at 05:18 PM

See, Neil...........
There you go with this mindset that says these bathroom leases have clout.

There is no freakin lease there. It's a rental agreement. It means nothing in terms of truth, protection and the American way.
It is just rented property, kinda like a space in a mini-storage. If you think you have any kind of control over this space, you're wrong.

rhintransit - 5-26-2007 at 10:10 AM

fascinating discussion of leases and living, renting, buying in Mexico. I'm of the be prepared to walk away school. has probably cost me a fortune, but am sticking to it.

but I think the poor newbie who started this thread was really trying to advertise. anyone interested in taking it on? armed with all the cautions? there sure are a lot of arrangements down here. and maybe this one works for someone. NOT for the Sunset/House Beautiful group who want to invest loads of money and hope, but for someone with their wits about them who wants a gorgeous (yes it is) spot for awhile. put up a tent, put up an inexpensive structure, back in the motor home down below and enjoy it while it lasts. I'm a neighbor and that's all I'm thinking on my place...but I have what I think may be the best deal in Baja...leased land, leased house built to my specifications with advance lease payment. no building costs, no labor costs, no worrying about how things were done. I've put in paint, appliances, solar...which I can sell...and the most interesting thing is that it was the LANDLORD'S idea to do it this way.

oldhippie - 5-26-2007 at 01:11 PM

rhintransit, what you're saying in a nutshell is that you prefer to rent than buy. That's a common decision made by millions world wide.

Seems everybody got hung up on Searay's "guaranteed renewable and transferable" statement, which it can't possibly be. Maybe I'm wrong but it sounds like the lessee is on the hook for 6 years of payments according to the terms of the lease. If the lessor is willing to let the lessee out of the lease, then the lessee has made out. So the lease is cancelled by agreement of the two parties, the ex-lessee goes home scott free, and the owner can do what he wants.

The current lessee can't sell the improvements, they're not his to sell, they are the property of the land owner. Of course there is one born every minute.

If anybody wants to lease this property they should find out who owns it and cut a deal with the owner. The owner then gives the current lessee the option to live up to the 10 year deal or go home.

Don Alley - 5-26-2007 at 03:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oldhippie
The current lessee can't sell the improvements, they're not his to sell, they are the property of the land owner. Of course there is one born every minute.

If anybody wants to lease this property they should find out who owns it and cut a deal with the owner. The owner then gives the current lessee the option to live up to the 10 year deal or go home.


Wow, that's a little harsh!:lol:

There have been many sales of lease improvements around here, maybe fewer now that so much ejido land has been put on the market for fidos instead of leases. We can nitpick about legal technicalities but there is still a chance of honest handshake deals as well. Just don't bet the farm on them.

Consider that the offer in question here may be well suited to someone wanting to spend several years in the area. While you don't receive many of the benefits of ownership or fido, you can get yourself settled in a really nice location for a small fraction of today's prices of ownership. Ten grand, 2-3 grand a year plus some construction. Cheap.

Buying may be better but I think you'll need 100 grand or more now.

rts551 - 5-26-2007 at 03:41 PM

Wow. How attitudes are changing. In the scope of things even the Fido is relativly new. Remember when... it was a handshake or a lease but that was it... Guess that was before the investment phase.

jerry - 5-26-2007 at 06:40 PM

oldhippie
there has been many people who have sold there improvments and existing leases to others
i think going to the landloard behind the lessees back is a sneaky underhanded way of doing business

perhaps a green move??:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

oldhippie - 5-27-2007 at 07:38 AM

Harsh, sneaky, underhanded? Yup it is. Legal, likely to happen? Yup it is. These kind of old style deals are a cheap way of getting a place to hang your hat and therefore I considered it long and hard. But I bet the landowners are getting wiser by the minute and all sorts of people are knocking on their doors. And business deals are included in the gringofication of baja. When it comes to money, trust between strangers really has no place. And this has nothing to do with environmentalism. That's a completely different topic.

Tenant improvements to leased land should be negotiated with the landowner and done with some smarts. For example, perhaps you could make a deal with the landowner that if he starts a new lease period, with a reasonable rent, you'll invest your hard earned cash to improve his property.

As far as property that already has tenant improvements and the tenant wants out, the current tenant, the owner, and the prospective tenant should all get together, cut a deal that is equitable to all, and then go to the notario publico and register the new deal.

Perhaps I'm just thinking out loud. I think I'm going to look for a 10 year lease and either do the improvements myself or find a place where the current tenant has done the improvements and try to make a deal. But certainly in either case, the deal is going to include a new lease with the owner, and the involvement of a lawyer representing my interests, a notario, and the current tenant if there is one.

Land, especially beachfront, is just getting to valuable to cut a deal based upon a handshake.

oldhippie - 5-27-2007 at 07:49 AM

Jerry, if your "green move" comment was referring to "green backs" I missed it on the first read. Like I say to my consulting clients, "I may be slow, but I sure am expensive." I don't work much anymore. :cool:

Pescador - 5-27-2007 at 04:30 PM

Well, you are close on a lease. It can not, by law, be guaranteed to be renewable at the end of 10 years. But a lease is in fact a legal agreement in Mexico and is registered with a notario which is very similar to a lien. The property can not be sold out from under you and if the owner decides to sell, he can not while the lease is in effect. For a property that is valued at less than $50,000 it may make sense instead of doing a FIdo which would be over 10% of the cost of the property.

DENNIS - 5-27-2007 at 04:40 PM

Pescador -----

Maybe the dream location one wants to live on isn't for sale.

Pescador - 5-28-2007 at 06:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Pescador -----

Maybe the dream location one wants to live on isn't for sale.


you are abbsolutely right. I have some friends who have the most beautiful beachfront property and it was all done on a lease cause the guy who owns it has seen the appreciation and he is happy to have houses built on his property but doesn't want to sell it and the people who have built are really happy and figure that 10 years is about the amount of time they will want to come to baja. They won't have anything to give to the grandkids, but hey, they were brats anyway.:lol:

SeaRay - 6-18-2007 at 04:21 PM

Being a "newbie", I now realize the errors in my very first ad. It has now been edited, and I hope the bump brings some positive response.