BajaNomad - New Proposed Immigration Law Real or Unreal??

New Proposed Immigration Law Real or Unreal??

Bajafun777 - 5-24-2007 at 10:03 AM

Since I live on the border this new immigration bill before the House and Senate jumps all over the place. Why can we not have the same immigration laws as Mexico has??? Would that not change the arguements in this Country some. We have others constantly telling us how unfair any type of immigration reform is but look at Mexico's and why not move ours around the same line. If you do not have the money in bank don't come, if you plan on working don't for 5 years and then only at jobs locals can not do (figure that one out), if you get citizenship then do not plan on voting in elections as you can't, if you plan on owning land you have restrictions where you can own, and there is still more. Now, who says any type of immigration law is not going to be unfair to others? By just the fact that you have a law limits someone from doing something they want but the majority says no to. Jobs in farming are not the real reason as the farm jobs are only 6% of immigrants workers and the rest are in hotels, food services, manufactoring, construction, etc. Go to Walmart in Calexico and over half of the workers are from Mexicali. Our Country has made it too easy for people here to say what they will work at or not by the quick handout we give in assistance, I do not mind a hand up but take issue with continual handouts! Big business is running our immigration laws and unfortunately big business owns our legislatures, so get ready for an immigration law that will not be worth the paper it is written on. Thus, I tell friends I do not worry about things I can not change and learn to live with the things that I do have control over. It's not about people hating people from Mexico it's about how much can our own economy handle before we find ourselves in Mexico's economic troubles, feel China's economic crush over us yet????? Mexico and United States need to make the companies relocating in Mexico and not paying a living wage stop such practices and pay according to what their profits show could be paid. This should be reviewed by Mexico Government Auditors of these companies that take advantage of cheap labor to the extreme. However, this thing is so far out of control I seriously doubt that any good happens from any legislation!! The way things are currently are not good for Mexico nor the United States. bajafun777

fishbuck - 5-24-2007 at 10:36 AM

I have a friend who does hard scape (cement,stone) work. He has 2 illegal mexican guys working for him. Neither pays taxes, social security, has health insurance etc. Both of these guys have nointention of ever going back to Mexico.
1 is married. His wife is illegal. They have one kid born here. They us all of our social services yet contribute not one thin dine except maybe sales tax.
I asked my buddy if they would pay the $5000 to become legal and he said no way . They don't have the money.
If my friend ad to pay a legal US ctizen with benefits and taxes I don't think he could stay in business. But in essence he is cheating the american people and so are his workers. And when his workers kid gets old enough for school we'll all will have to pay to educate him without any contribution from his parents.
We pay more to have these people in our country than we receive any benfit from.

bajalou - 5-24-2007 at 10:51 AM

fishbuck

It is your friend's responsibility to deduct and pay the SS and income taxes for his employees. Employees don't pay SS direct, it's the employer's responsibility - so don't blame the employee for what his employer doesn't do.

DENNIS - 5-24-2007 at 10:58 AM

Yeah, Fish -----

Your buddy is the biggest part of the problem, for a half dozen different reasons.

Skeet/Loreto - 5-24-2007 at 11:44 AM

fISHBUCK: My concern with trying to remove all of the Good Mexican Workers from the States is Economic.
The Price we would have to go up very High on the Following;
All Food Products Harvested by Mexicanos especially in the Central Valley of Calif:
All Milk Products as most workers are Mexicano.
Most McDonalds in The Western U.S.
Landscaping Jobs.

Just to name a Few. Then where and who would we get to Work in these Jobs??
The Feedlots and Beef Packing Plants would have to Double their Pay, if they could find the Workers- Many Thousands.

I certainly do not profess to have the Answer, but I have always supported those People who will Work !!

Skeet

DENNIS - 5-24-2007 at 11:57 AM

What the United States needs is a machine that picks strawberrys.

Fish

bajaguy - 5-24-2007 at 11:59 AM

Your friend is in violation of the law and so are his two employees..................I wonder if we as a nation would tolerate employing or hiring bank robbers, rapists and scam artists...............just a thought.

Bajafun777 - 5-24-2007 at 12:22 PM

The farm labor work again only hires about 6%, my dad was a grower and the farm vegetables use to be harvested by the Filipino workers that came to the states to make money and also went back to their Islands with what they earned. Our high school kids can't get jobs in the fast food industry like the old days as you have illegals doing it and bumping them out of any work. I know that a lot of them want a job but these fast food companies like hiring illegals as they are afraid to say anything if they fudge on their pay and they are older so you do not have to work with a teenager. I use to drive tractor when I was 12 but you won't now and the laws require teenagers to get work permits, so we have our own teenage kids having to show paperwork for work to get a job but not the illegals. Just makes you scratch you head and ask what the hell happened. I do not have anything against legal immigration and within limits just like these other Countries do towards our citizens. I do believe in a level immigration field what's good for one is good for the other. I feel sorry for those that played by the rules, stood in line, paid their monies, and are now on a wait and see list. If they would have cheated they could have more than earned the $5,000 dollars it would take to get into our Country and only have to be out 1 year to get back in by cheating. If they do it for them then they need to speed the process up for those that played by the rules and they should get their paperwork before those that cheated. We have people that will work in all trades, even landscrapping, but we need to acknowledge that we can not pay a cheaters price for that labor any longer. I had a brother-in-law that quit his construction business because he played by the rules and those that did not uncut his get by costs with illegal help. Workers Comp, Unemployment benefits, State Taxes, Federal Taxes and they guy was working 18 hours a day on numerous homes trying to get by. Try doing a Construction business by the border and it is tough, I mean real tough because people hire those that should not be working. I still see no hope to correct this as politicians are only out for themselves. The ones that try to be honest get crushed or pushed to the side with all of the big businesses monies go to those that are beholding to their wishes. Sad part is we allow ourselves as a Country to keep getting the short end of the stick. Either play by the rules or get out and if you don't like the rules again stay out. bajafun777

Skeet

Baja Bernie - 5-24-2007 at 12:45 PM

Try drywall hangers, plumbers, electricians, carpenters......If you want to apply for a foreman's job you must be bilingual or the workers will not understand your instructions.

l It's mostly the young Mexican kids (like ours used to do) who work flipping hamburgers.

Very few of them now follow the crops because union organizer,Ceasar Chavez, got most of the farms to invest in various equipment to handle the crops.

Last time the wife wanted some drywall hung here in Santee she called someone listed in the Pennysaver and he showed up after crossing the border.............no papers........but no Americans left to do 'small' jobs because that trade is completely under control of non-documented workers.........he did have a cell phone that he booked jobs from his home in TJ...........Great worker and a good family man.........I am sure he declared and paid taxes on the cash, only way he would work, we paid him.........that alone gives him and many others a 15-25% advantage over domestic tax paying workers workers.

Let's start thinking of Americans with family's to raise and jobs for our own kids to earn money at.........My grandson recently got canned from Carl's because he didn't speak enough Spanish to get along with the rest of the staff.---just a small example of what is wrong with illegal immigration.

Oso - 5-25-2007 at 07:55 AM

"Under this new congressional plan, illegal immigrants would be able to live in the United States if they pay a $5,000 fine. $5,000? So, that would rule out working people or parents trying to support a family. However, you would get to keep all the drug dealers." --Jay Leno

CaboRon - 6-7-2007 at 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck
But in essence he is cheating the american people and so are his workers. A

This is the problem.... not the poor who are trying to make something better for their families ....... but the Amerikan businesspersons who exploit them . :rolleyes:

CaboRon

The LAW !

MrBillM - 6-7-2007 at 09:03 AM

The Senate Ds successfully defeated a GOP amendment last night that simply said all CURRENT Immigration Law was to be enforced. That says a whole bunch about where this monstrosity is heading.

However, two days before, the Senate PASSED a D-Sponsored Amendment funding a program to "Study the treatment of European-Americans, Italian-Americans and Jews during WWII (by us, of course). One D Senator said that it was time "these questions were answered". Talk about a load of Scheisse.

I'm not sure why they decided Italians were not Europeans, but I'm not curious enough to look deeper. I guess we've done enough self-flagellation over the Japanese Americans that they didn't need to be included.

Cheer up, though, important things are happening in the Human Rights arena. Paris Hilton has been released from her Political Persecution after a crushing three days of torture.

CaboRon - 6-7-2007 at 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Paris Hilton has been released from her Political Persecution after a crushing three days of torture.

SHE HAD A RASH !!!! :fire:

:wow

POOR THING !!!!!!!!!!!

In answer to the original question

Baja Bernie - 6-7-2007 at 09:31 AM

and after much study I have come to a conclusion:

And that is that the proposed law is REALLY UNREAL and it is getting more so every minute.

The last I heard the Senate voted down a proposal that would have dis-allowed illegal, convicted felons, from applying for citizenship.........by this action our citizenship is now made even more worthless by allowing felons to become American Citizens

It is truly and REALLY UNREAL!

[Edited on 6-7-2007 by Baja Bernie]

Mexitron - 6-7-2007 at 10:37 AM

I remember illegals going home in the 90's recession from lack of work--between that and a little extra enforcement from Immigration, the neighborhood barrio in Dana Point was a lot quieter.

Gang Members request Asylum in US

CaboRon - 6-7-2007 at 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baja Bernie
and after much study I have come to a conclusion:

And that is that the proposed law is REALLY UNREAL and it is getting more so every minute.

The last I heard the Senate voted down a proposal that would have dis-allowed illegal, convicted felons, from applying for citizenship.........by this action our citizenship is now made even more worthless by allowing felons to become American Citizens

It is truly and REALLY UNREAL!

[Edited on 6-7-2007 by Baja Bernie]

This is outragous....what's more so is that Gang Members are using their membership to request asylum instead of deportation because members of Latin American countries treat them like they treated the members of their communities here. Several have already been given asylum under this argument. Gang members are routinly dealt with severly by their countryman. :rolleyes:

This is so convoluted that it makes my head spin :spingrin:

CaboRon

Cypress - 6-7-2007 at 11:48 AM

The proposed law or whatever it is, is a joke!

Nobody is laughing! It's a bad reflection on our so-called leaders.

A Weakening Pulse

MrBillM - 6-7-2007 at 03:14 PM

The Abominable Amnesty Bill was thought to be Dead and ready for burial last night, but Harry Reid Blew enough hot air to resuscitate it a little today, however, the prognosis may be Terminal.

Proof of that may be in Harry Rex's pronouncement today that this was "The President's Bill. He brought it to us. If it fails, it's his fault".

Denying ownership and assigning blame is always a good indicator of the probable result. I guess Teddie's co-ownership of the bill was just an illusion. Now, at least.

RIP I hope.

Going, Going, GONE !

MrBillM - 6-8-2007 at 10:07 AM

The Senate fell 15 Votes short of the 60 needed to invoke Cloture, effectively KILLING the legislation in its present form.

It was said that Senators were feeling increasing grassroots oppositon from back home. That's the upside to the Congress engaging in this sort of stuff near an election cycle. They actually pay attention to what their constituents think.

Gnome-ad - 6-8-2007 at 01:38 PM

Guess problems get put off. I sure don't know the solution either. Most of us, or our ancestors, came from somewhere else and most likely took a long time to assimilate as well and may have been indentured or dirt poor. They probably sought out the parts of cities or the country where others of similar ancestry settled. That is the survival instinct.

I mostly wanted to post here to say - MrBillM - Absolutely love your avatar ... is that your talented pooch?

The Kid

MrBillM - 6-8-2007 at 06:31 PM

She's my youngest Pooch. Baja Native Sixteen months now and filled with energy and curiosity. If we don't spend enough time with her on the Beach each day, she goes back down by herself to swim and kill Crabs.

Reverting to the theme of this thread, no matter what your position is on the Immigration question, I think that reasoning people can understand the suspicion that most feel regarding "Promises" by the Government. A fear on both sides was that only those provisions of the Bill that the Administration (whoever that might be) felt like enforcing would be enforced. The lack of FIRM benchmarks made the whole thing suspect. I agree with those in the Senate who later said that we should address the various aspects with separate pieces of legislation unburdened by various unrelated amendments.

As I said earlier, the problem with this legislation was that it was cobbled together in order to take the Immigration issue out of the upcoming election because both sides were unsure of how it would play in individual races. That cynical motive created this mess.

Bajafun777 - 6-8-2007 at 10:49 PM

Well, some of the latest information coming out is that the compromises are close or are they really??? Now, the real biting issue is the cost to our social security system that is already almost bankrupt. It seems like each of the 12 million or 20 million, depends on who's stats you look at, would be entitled to all our system of goverment has to offer immediately and would be about $400,000 per immigrant over the next 20 to 30 years. About 3 trillion in tax dollars needed so who but the good old middle class would put up the tax dollars. The gross economic increase of their labor will not out run this cost. Think about it all of the these immigrants that are mostly very low economically are entitled to all of our governments welfare programs which according now to Washington is about 60 programs, does that not make your head spin, Medicare, and again Social Security whether they paid in or not if they are 65 or disabled the check will cometh. If they were gang members but now renounce their membership they can stay and they only get booted if they were convicted of a felony so misdemeanors do not count, isn't that something also. If the Immigration Judges had ordered them deported but they are not yet over the border they immediately are let go and open to citizenship this is about 600,000 people according to Washington. If this bill is not stopped in its present form get ready for your taxes to shoot up another 10% or more to offset the costs when the real true numbers start coming to light. This is just a bad immigration bill in its present form, We simply can not afford it. Later--------------------------bajafun777

Saving Face or CYA !

MrBillM - 6-9-2007 at 12:03 PM

The consensus among those professionals observing the process is that it's at least 90 % Dead. The "crew" who cobbled this together are making noises about not giving up, but (except for Kennedy) it's just Lip Service. Kennedy's a diehard believer and I'm sure he's plotting away. Lindsey Graham and John Kyl were taking a beating back home so they're probably glad to see it go. Never underestimate Harry Rex, though, he may try another end run. It is unlikely, though, because the House members who oppose this legislation have grown.

Never say Never in Politics, but this one looks pretty moribund right now.

Dead Again (for the last time ?).

MrBillM - 6-28-2007 at 09:38 AM

Earlier in the week it was looking pretty Dark after Lord Darth Vader (Teddie) resurrected the moribund legislation and GWB did some arm-twisting. After the "Backdoor" Cloture deal and the agreement to debate a limited number of amendments, it seemed that they'd win the final cloture vote today. As late as yesterday afternoon, passage was predicted.

However, the heat from home proved fatal and they couldn't even get a Majority vote, much less the 60 votes needed, losing 46-53.

This may have been the final defeat for this election cycle.

toneart - 6-28-2007 at 11:55 AM

MrBillM,

I have to say, I agree with your analysis regarding the demise of the Immigration Bill. (did I say that)?

I do wish though, that you would not misplace the identity of Darth Vader. Everyone knows the real Darth Vader is the one whom Bush fronts for (even though he is not a member of The Executive Branch).