BajaNomad - What Harm has been Done?

What Harm has been Done?

Skeet/Loreto - 5-30-2007 at 07:57 AM

To all Posters:

What Harm has been done to you Personally by the Mexicanos coming to the States????

rpleger - 5-30-2007 at 08:19 AM

NONE,

elizabeth - 5-30-2007 at 08:43 AM

None, only benefits.

bajamigo - 5-30-2007 at 08:49 AM

That's really a "do-you-still-beat-your-wife?" type of question. I'm with Elizabeth, ask about the benefits, too. I'm sure you'll find they far outweigh the "harm" you're inquiring about.

Dave - 5-30-2007 at 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
To all Posters:

What Harm has been done to you Personally by the Mexicanos coming to the States????

The labor market down here (in Mexico) is now a mess. Used to find quality labor for a reasonable price but it's all gone north. What's left is either expensive, not worth hiring...or both.

Skeet/Loreto - 5-30-2007 at 09:32 AM

No Amigo it is not that Kind of Question.
Dave: Good Answer of Fact.
Question: How do you Solve the Problem? Work a little Harder to find Good Labor? Pay a little more for the Good Labor? Raise your Price a little to offset the Cost? From the tone of your previous Posts, you will Succeed.

I was in the Central Valley of Calif. during the Days of the Brown Berets, and Chavez. Although I did not agree on some of the Tactics at the time, I think that the Outcome benefited both the Mexicanos and the Farmers.
Something Good came out of something that looked Bad at the time to many People.

I appreciate all Comments.

Skeet/Loreto

capt. mike - 5-30-2007 at 09:34 AM

if you mean illegals.
:mad:

plenty when you consider all the social benefits they take that the libs allow to continue unabated.....hospital, schools, emergency services, no insurance to protect others against their liability...all results in my paying premium taxes and rates :mad:

IF WE LET THEM ALL IN AND SHARE WHAT WE HAVE WITH THEM THEY MIGHT START LIKING US

bancoduo - 5-30-2007 at 09:56 AM

http://www.banderasnews.com/0705/nr-missusa.htm

Skeet/Loreto - 5-30-2007 at 10:29 AM

Mike: The Question was ask" Has any Mexicano done any Harm to you Personally .
This is not about Illegals.
So you own and Fly and Airplane to Baja, You live in a Very Wealthy Community, You Pay Taxes and Premuims on Health Care.
Do you claim that the Mexicanos have caused you to be "Less Wealthy" ??
Just looking for Personal Harm.
Skeet

DENNIS - 5-30-2007 at 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
if you mean illegals.
:mad:

The conservatives have done a pee-poor job of doing anything about it as well.

I'm not a liberal, by any means so, don't yell at me.

DENNIS - 5-30-2007 at 10:39 AM

Sorry Skeet .... It was off track, I know.

Skeet/Loreto - 5-30-2007 at 10:43 AM

SoulPatch; Those things you have listed I am sure are valid for Our System of Govt. But What about Personal Harm? Has the coming of the Mexicanos cost or changed your Life Style?

All the things you listed could be well said regarding the "Harm" cause by the Americans use of "Illegal Drugs".

Could it be that many of the People so strong aganist the Building of the Wall, be concerned that the Price of the Illegal Drugs they use would Sky Rocket and maybe Curtailed??

DENNIS - 5-30-2007 at 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
To all Posters:

What Harm has been done to you Personally by the Mexicanos coming to the States????

Just that. A segment of Mexican expatriot society in the US has crossed the border in an illegal way and in doing so, disrespected and disregarded the laws of my country. It is an insult to the sovereignty of the United States, therefore an insult to me. They continue to insult me on a daily basis.

I wish they'd stop doing that.

capt. mike - 5-30-2007 at 11:37 AM

Skeet - if you exclude illegals, then no, except for theft - and plenty of other ethnic groups have ripped me too!! :fire:

Dennis - i agree. the conservatives cannot agree on what to do either. but i think they are more for doing something positive some how....some day vs the left wingers who are on the kumbyahh kool aid. :biggrin:

Marie-Rose - 5-30-2007 at 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Jorge
Property damage from graffiti on house, out buildings, walls and vehicles. Cost me money raised my blood pressure.

Property damage from bullets on vehicles: they missed us. Really raised my blood pressure and cost me money .

Bogus workmens comp claims which used to be impossible to fight and win in a friggged up system, pre Arnold. Cost me money and raised my blood pressure.

Property theft both in Baja and California, tweekers are everywhere, cost me money and raised my blood pressure.

Need to purchase uninsured vehicle coverage for entire fleet, costs me money and raises my blood pressure.

My foremans 23 year son left for dead on the streets of Santa Ana and now a vegetable living at home for the rest of his life. That cost me a whole bunch helping my friend and raised my blood pressure.

Very intersting...very same problems here in our area and rarely a Mexican to be seen :?:

toneart - 5-30-2007 at 12:05 PM

To answer the question: NONE! In fact they contributed to my well being. I taught English as a Second Language in San Diego during most of the '90s. They were the majority within the immigrants who came to the United States looking for a better life.They were the sweetest, kindest and most grateful people I had ever met. Many said to me years later that learning English enabled them to get better jobs. Part of our curriculum was to teach life skills i.e. how to balance a checkbook; how to read bus schedules; how and where to get help during emergencies; how to interview for a job; the importance of being on time, and many other aspects of our culture that are different from those in Mexico.

Skeet, when I first read your question at the top of this string I thought you were baiting us, leading up to another combative and unproductive shouting match. Now I am inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt after you qualified your question later. :rolleyes:

Skeet/Loreto - 5-30-2007 at 12:07 PM

Good Post All: Please keep them coming.
Don Jorge: very well taken-Watch your Blood Pressure!

Many Truths and Facts said that could be added to our Culture if we had not allowed the Mexicanos into the States;

The Price of Food;
The Price of Textiles:
The Price of Beef:

I often wonder where our Economy would be with out the Legal Mexicano whose work is so important.

I agree 100% that the Law Breakers should be stopped! That is a First!

Skeet/Loreto - 5-30-2007 at 12:24 PM

Marie-Rose:
Yes Marie, very well put.
California and Texas have the Largest Population in Prison.

There are many areas, especially in the Cities that are just as bad, maybe not as large in numbers.

Toneart: The Purpose of my question is to try to obtain Personal Reactions and Beliefs not to get lost in a Discussions of over Emotion, which is very difficult regarding this Problem and its Solution.

Many of us on this Board have had many years experience with the Mexicano People and the Impact it has had on our Culture.
I think that when it is solved, and it will be, that it will be People with Ability and Common Sense that will solve it.

Have you read "Mexifornia' ?

Skeet

fishbuck - 5-30-2007 at 01:14 PM

It harms my eyes that the women are mostly short, fat and ugly.
I guess they keep the goodlooking ones in Mexico.
If they would just share some of their hotlooking women I think that would help Us/Mexico relations alot.
We get the throwaways.
Okay I've got to go put on my asbestos suit because I know I'm going catch heat for this.

howat - 5-30-2007 at 01:22 PM

Back when i was a kid I picked cantalopes one summer in Yuma, worked in many fast food joints, cut lawns, was a buss boy and waiter at restaurants, basically i worked year round to make $. All these jobs paid very reasonable wages back then so that i could help support myself thru high school and totally thru college. These jobs provided me with a strong work ethic and confidence in my abilities which translated into a successful career over the past 40 years. Now a-days these types of jobs are not as plentiful for my kids because the illegal people are taking them and the ones that are available are very low paying. The theory of supply & demand in action. You can not blame an employer for hiring someone for minimum wage. If these illegal people were not here the employers would have to pay a living wage for the people here just like I received in my day. We might have to pay more for a Value Menu item at McDonald's or to have our grass cut or tables bussed but it would be with our kids or legal immigrants learning to get ready for the world ahead. I've got nothing personally against these hard-working people here illegally but they are damaging the american culture we once had. Shame on us for allowing this to happen. I say kick all the illegals out and let theory of supply and demand dictate the "true" cost of living for goods and services in America.

HH

Skeet/Loreto - 5-30-2007 at 03:01 PM

howat: Good factual information. thank you.

I would only take exception that they are damaging our Culture as it use to be. True in some ways, but from my view, and age, the most damage being done to our culture has been from within not Without.

The lack of teaching our Children Respect and Responsibility etc. has created a Culture of Blame , If it feels good, Do it, mentality, which in my mind creates Weakness of the Individual.

I have Faith in the American Way, and Hope that this next Generation will get Sick and Tired and start to Change into a Responsibile Society. a Society that will accept such as the Hard Working Mexicano People as well as others, and develop the Strength to Fight those that wish to destroy our Way of Life.

I think it would surpise many People if they learned of the many Mexicanos that are now serving our Country in the Military.

DENNIS - 5-30-2007 at 03:27 PM

Skeet ----

Yeah..... It would surprise me. How many?

bajamigo - 5-30-2007 at 03:52 PM

Gee, judging by some of these posts, Mexicans heading north (legal or otherwise) have been responsible for a general societal crime wave, the distortion of a the world's largest free-market economy, the trashing of the price curve, the deterioration of the family, and maybe even global warming. Seems like they're being giving credit for far more influence than any group of human beings deserves.

Cypress - 5-30-2007 at 03:57 PM

Harm? To me? Personally? :?:

None. But......!!! Just because I haven't been raped, murdered, or mugged doesn't mean others have not suffered from those offenses.

Oso - 5-30-2007 at 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
To all Posters:

What Harm has been done to you Personally by the Mexicanos coming to the States????

You mean other than my wife? Well, a couple of nephews have been sort of a pain in the ass... :lol:

I wish others would stick to the question,i.e.; "Personally" and quit skewing the thread to the vague abstract. As for me, there have been very few direct impacts of a negative nature. A ******* shadetree mechanic once did a brake job on a Karmann Ghia without putting the proper torque on the hub, resulting in the wheel coming off, loss of the vehicle, putting my wife in the hospital and killing a puppy, and more recently a cabinetmaker stiffed me for $180 without delivering the shelves I ordered. But, those could just as well have been gringos. Fellow countryman have done worse to me over the years.

On the other hand, I've been rewarded with many wonderful friendships, have known many straightforward, honorable people and know several countrymen who have had successful businesses that would not have been possible without "cheap labor".

oldhippie - 5-30-2007 at 05:02 PM

Tequila!! Talk about the damaging influence of another culture! And what about those boat anchor burritos? I'm wider than I am high (as in height) because of those things. And do you know how much money I've blown on the sweetbread stuff, what do they call it? Panocha?

And to the guy that complained about the ugly latinas. I'll give you a tour of TJ some night. WOW!! There's this blond chichona from GDL that, well.....nevermind.

tripledigitken - 5-30-2007 at 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldhippie

And to the guy that complained about the ugly latinas. I'll give you a tour of TJ some night. WOW!! There's this blond chichona from GDL that, well.....nevermind.

Old Hippie,

With that you'd be cutting into Fernado's territory. Or, you could become partners? :lol:

Ken

DENNIS - 5-30-2007 at 05:13 PM

Oldhippie ----

Would you give us a tour of Adelitas? I don't think it's on fdt's itenerary.

Crusoe - 5-30-2007 at 06:06 PM

Sorry for you Skeet.......You are way off base again...Especially on this one!!!! Whether or not you are aware of whats going on... or not aware.... does not make any difference to you because of where you live. The reality is that there is a social class war going on in So. Cal.. Its between the have's and the have nots..... Alot of the very impoverished hispanics( almost all illegals) are constantly robing and beating and stealing and even raping victims from wealthier areas. My son lives in an upperclass neighborhood in Irvine and the theives are crawling through the locked windows at night.(his). They send out young wiley very fit runners as snoops looking in windows of occupied homes while people are wathing tv or whatever in the evenings when lights are on and they can see.... and they are carrying two way radios to communicate with cube vans parked in the neighborhood close by with as many as 6 to 8 other theives and plan and execute their crimes. Very organized.They can empty out a 4000sq. ft. house in less than 10 minuets. My son hangs out with alot of policeman and is constantly hearing and relating some of the most wildest tales to me. My daughter in law has been stocked twice by strange men of Mexican origin( or so she thought).. The police try to play down the illegal activity as not to shake the confidence of the general population.Its really to bad, but there is alot gong on we do not hear about. Some of it very grizzly. It affects everyone.Bill M said it right....."Go try surviving a night in Santa Ana or Fullerton" after dark?....Obviusly its only a small part of the hispanic population, but as the gap widens and the population increases so do the ceimes. Law enforcement is at an impasse.++C++

The Sculpin - 5-30-2007 at 09:12 PM

I have been benefited greatly. I have made friends on both sides, and have even hatched very elaborate plans to bring people to the otre lade so that I could employ them in various sundry tasks. They have done the same for me! I agree with that 'ole codger skeet that our culture has been harmed more from within than without (but we won't argue details here!). Now listen up - I worked hard to make my money, and no one is going to tell me how I can spend it, and if I want to give it to some of my friends in exchange for them being oh so helpful, then I will, and the rest of you can go bugger off! Why is it that my money is transparent across borders but my friends aren't? OK, here comes the rant - if capitalism is such a good thing, why isn't labor allowed to cross borders freely as does capital?!?!

Sharksbaja - 5-31-2007 at 12:54 AM

Because years ago it was learned how to capitalize on illegal or immigrant laborers.

Skeet/Loreto - 5-31-2007 at 06:15 AM

Thanks for your Posts;
Crusoe: I am well aware of what is going on in Orange County, Don"t feel Sorry for me.
I agree 100% with what you are saying. The Wars Contuine.

It was very much the Same in South Central/East La/ and even Compton{Had the Largest Population of Ex-Cons in Calif.} but on a much smaller Scale}

Maybe it will take some Citizens to start taking things into their own Hands to stop the Outlaws.
During the Years driving South, I felt saver in Baja than I did on the Los Angeles Freeway

Is it all Gang Activity, Mexican, Black, Asian etc. or is it Mexicanos alone??

Skeet.

jimgrms - 5-31-2007 at 06:54 AM

skeet !0 years ago , 2 illegals broke in my stepfathers home in colton calif, killed him and stolealmost everything in the house and his truck ,he had been a nice guy and hired them to paint his house , and was letting them stay in his camp trailer, they were caught in san diego.
also see them up here in colorado building houses piece work , doing slipshod work can't speak english, so sure as hell can't read blue prints

[Edited on 5-31-2007 by jimgrms]

Crusoe - 5-31-2007 at 07:17 AM

Skeet you initiated this thread.....Its not about asians or blacks... Its about Mexicans coming across our border and helping or harming inocent people.Or is it not?? What are you fishing for??...Stop worrying and be happy and alive. ++C++

DianaT - 5-31-2007 at 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
To all Posters:

What Harm has been done to you Personally by the Mexicanos coming to the States????

Well, during my last 5 years of teaching high school, every so often a jerk who was Mexican, or Mexican American would disrupt my class. Then when I would throw him or her out, sometimes they would call me a racist --- the only reason I was throwing the student out was because he/she is Mexican. :yes:

But, since I was teaching in Calexico, 99% of my students were Mexican or Mexican-American. The other students would just roll their eyes and laugh. :spingrin:

They were some of the greatest teenagers around. So much to learn from all cultures, and border culture is unique. It enriched my life.

However, there were a few of the Mexican and Mexican American teachers who really disliked all gringos and taught hate in their classrooms. They were harmful to everyone --- most of all, harmful to the students.

Diane

[Edited on 5-31-2007 by jdtrotter]

Skeet/Loreto - 5-31-2007 at 11:02 AM

Crusoe: My intention was for your Opinion on the Area South of 405. Is it entirely Mexican lawbreakers and Gangs??
Interesting about Colo.. Here in the Texas Panhandle the Mexicanos are doing Good Work in Roofing, Bricklaying, Lanscaping. It is hard to find other labor as many have gone to the Oil Patches and as you know Cowboys only want to Work Cows at $100 For Day Work, then Play at the Midnight Rodeo the rest of the Week end.
Skeet

DENNIS - 5-31-2007 at 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

However, there were a few of the Mexican and Mexican American teachers who really disliked all gringos and taught hate in their classrooms. They were harmful to everyone --- most of all, harmful to the students.

Diane

[Edited on 5-31-2007 by jdtrotter]

They're the ones who should be on their knees begging for amnesty.

Skeet

Baja Bernie - 5-31-2007 at 01:17 PM

You know that your question could have just as easily been asked about what the Japanese or the Germans did to 'harm' you personally before and during WWII. Very few of our citizens had any contact with those folks so they could not be personally harmed.

The question, in my mind, is what impact have the Mexicans coming to America had on the American culture and how did that negatively effect you.................My answer would be simply and #1 Gangs!

Forget the fact that many of us have Mexican members in our family's, that they have a great culture, that we (I) love them.........that they are our (my) friends. Bottom line is how do they impact the culture in which we live when we are in America..........then I would still say gangs.....abuse of hospitals, welfare....................

Ah! nuts! Society and culture are what bind us together and allow us to survive and when they are attacked or deminished then we as individuals suffer.....

To steal a quote from 'amir' on another post.......

"We are practicing 'La Reconquista' in California." (for those who don’t now— it is Conquering)
- Jose Pescador Osuna, Mexican Consul General

Guess this one got by -- but I still took offence at attitude and words written

Lee - 5-31-2007 at 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck
It harms my eyes that the women are mostly short, fat and ugly.
I guess they keep the goodlooking ones in Mexico.
If they would just share some of their hotlooking women I think that would help Us/Mexico relations alot.
We get the throwaways.
Okay I've got to go put on my asbestos suit because I know I'm going catch heat for this.

If there is truth in every jest -- and I believe humor disguises many things -- then these words about Mexican women is disparaging and unnecessary. Guess fishback has a problem with short, fat and ugly women -- and for some reason, I don't. I love them too, along with whatever physical attributes a woman has been blessed with.

To address Mexican women as ''throwaways'' insults all women -- pretty or not, Mexican or not.

I read this post wondering where the humor was and wondering why someone would write such callous things on this board. And I was hoping someone would ''report" this post and have it removed.

I'm not looking to promote sensitivity training here, or points for who is the most politically correct. God knows I stick my foot in my own mouth from time to time and go off on a rant.

Sexism and racism is the same coin, in my opinion, just opposite sides. If you cast racial slurs at someone, or degrade a woman by pointing out how her looks offend you, then someone needs to address what this stuff really means -- that someone is probably taking offense, maybe not saying anything.

Hey fishbuck, you need to go out of your way NOT to offend people here. As much as I can still shake your hand and drink beer with you considering what I think of you favoring Grassfire, your comments about Mexican women here is over the top -- and as I see it, serving no express purpose but to hurt women, generally.

Just my one opinion, as I see no one else as said anything.

Lee :cool:

DianaT - 5-31-2007 at 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

Quote:

Thank you Lee---you said it all. :yes:

Bajabus - 5-31-2007 at 03:57 PM

Humor is truth without the seatbelt

DENNIS - 5-31-2007 at 04:29 PM

What are you people doing?

You slobber and cry about how mean we are to the illegal community in our country. How terrible we are because we don't understand and have no heart and soul because we don't treat them like lost puppys who need a home.
According to you, we fail to understand the issue because we wont understand their culture and their needs. Not to mention how wonderful they are.

Hey, Lee my friend.....

Fishbuck shouldn't go anywhere just because you don't agree with him. He should stay right here and express himself, more, in my opinion.
Where do you come off telling people how they should express themselves?
Is that the American way you espouse? My way or the highway?
What insulting crap. I'm surprised it came from you.

Bernie ----

It's all about us trying to accomodate a group of people who don't want to be accomodated. You know this.
How many times in your life have you heard about the Mexican community, as a whole, being concerned with the feelings of the OTM [ other than Mexican ] element in their life?
They couldn't care less.
They need jobs, they need money. They don't need, or want, us. Not even in our country.

Our future will be better served when this is understood.

Skeet/Loreto - 5-31-2007 at 04:54 PM

Gentlemen, Scholars:
I was Hoping, just Hoping that my Topic would generate some interest of a personal Nature that might give us all a True inside on this Problem.

Well it did for a Awhile, some very good Posts. I thank you for all of your Positive Posts.
There has been many good and Great things that Many of the Mexicanos coming to the States have brought to our Society.
And yes there have been some very Negative Things Also.
The change and Division in our Country has brought out the Worst in our own People.
I have Faith that it will be solved in the Future. It maybe be that the Natl. Guard will have to be Called, it maybe that we will have to suffer some Deaths and Destruction but at the End I think our Nation will come togather to treat the Hard Working Mexicano Familys with Dignity.
We Must come to gather to Survive.

Skeet/Loreto

Lee/Dennis

Baja Bernie - 5-31-2007 at 05:09 PM

Lee, I agree with your sumation of fishbuck's offensive remarks about women---you do forget that his motivation as stated is to stir things up---There are many things that I disagree with on the board but I don't believe censorship is the answer-------Lord know the Mexican and American Government practice it to the detriment of their own citizens all of the time. I believe all of us (yep! even me) post things that irritate others.........but we seldom do it 'just to stir things up' because we realize that behavior accomplishes mostly nothing.

Dennis, I believe what you say about the Mexicans as a people can be said about any group of people in the world. What I do take exception to is the Mexican governments overt actions to encourage their citizens to violate American law and become a drain on our national treasury. AND I object, very vocally away from this board, at the American governments refusal to enforce our laws and protect our citizens........We get tossed in jail in Mexico and our consulate smiles and forgets about it. A Mexican gets tossed in jail in America and his government goes so far as to threaten to go to the International Courts, not necessarily to protect the criminal, but to see that 'their' laws apply.

Most folks all over the world are very basically good people...it is normally the government that mucks things up in spite of the people.

Remember what JR used to say about 'humans' and how mad he (and I) got when Americans attempted, wholesale, to change the Mexican culture and impose theirs.

It is so d amn simple....people need to obey the laws of the host country.....period........and if they can't or won't do that they should be sent home............as Mexico does with its illegals from all over Latin America.

One last thing.....The Mexican Federal law against slander and liable have been done away with.....BUT the laws against same are still on the books in Baja and many of the things being said here--if said in Baja--could get folks deported or jailed.........or both.

DENNIS - 5-31-2007 at 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

It maybe be that the Natl. Guard will have to be Called Skeet/Loreto

Good idea. What's the area code for Baghdad? That's where they are.

DENNIS - 5-31-2007 at 05:17 PM

Well Bernie, I won't be silenced by fear.

Thanks for your last post. It means more to me than your epistles. I may print it and read it, from time to time, on the couch instead of the bathroom.

Thanks again.

Crusoe - 5-31-2007 at 06:17 PM

Soooooo........ Dennis....... what happened after I cut in front of you at the jetty?? Did we meet at Woodys Wharf and talk about Baja or did you find me in Blackies???. That spot was my home away from home and what a great view. Just like Baja.....??? Its all just a state of bieng. ++C++

DENNIS - 5-31-2007 at 06:24 PM

Crusoe ----

You be talkin my turf, Bro.
I was a bartender at the Alley West , and Sids and other places.....

[Edited on 6-1-2007 by DENNIS]

read it and weep friends....or not!

capt. mike - 5-31-2007 at 07:00 PM

and to clarify - this is re: illegals.

According to ImmigrationCounters.com, here are some of the realities that
Flake-Gutierrez would airbrush out of the picture:

Number of Illegal Aliens in the Country
20,807,645

Money Wired to Mexico City since January, 2006
$22,213,001,672.00

Cost of Social Security Services for Illegal Aliens since 1996
$397,450,739,563.00

Number of Children of Illegal Aliens in Public Schools
3,958,789

Cost of Illegal Aliens in K-12 Since 1996:
$13, 965,063,431.00

Number of Illegal Aliens Incarcerated
332,594

Cost of Incarcerations Since 2001
$1,398,127,429.00

Number of Illegal Aliens Fugitives
642,799

Skilled Jobs Taken by Illegal Aliens
9,872,838

Figures can trick your eyes. Take particular note that items 2,3,5, and 7
reflect BILLION not millions of dollars -- and that item 3 exceeds
one-third of a TRILLION dollars.

Can you imagine how much it will cost taxpayers if we triple the number of
Illegals entering this country!!

Subject: What's in a Billion?

Granted................. this is from the US!
The next time you hear a politician use the word "billion" in a casual
manner, think about whether you want the "politicians" spending your tax
money.

A billion is a difficult number to comprehend, but one advertising agency
did a good job of putting that figure into some perspective in one of its
releases.

A. A billion seconds ago it was 1959.

B. A billion minutes ago Jesus was alive.
C. A billion hours ago our ancestors were living in the Stone Age.
>

. A billion days ago no-one walked on the earth on two feet.

E. A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20 minutes, at the rate our
government is spending it.

F. Multiply it by 2.7 and you have the amount Scrushy stole....remember!

While this thought is still fresh in our brain, let's take a look at New
Orleans . It's amazing what you can learn with some simple division . . .

Louisiana Senator, Mary Landrieu (D), is presently asking the Congress for
$250 BILLION to rebuild New Orleans. Interesting number, what does it mean?>
a. Well, if you are one of 484,674 residents of New Orleans (every man,
woman, child), you each get $516,528.

b. Or, if you have one of the 188,251 homes in New Orleans , your home gets
$1,329,787.

c. Or, if you are a family of four, your family gets $2,066,012.

Washington, D.C. ... HELLO!!! . Are all your calculators broken??

This is too true to be very funny

DENNIS - 5-31-2007 at 07:03 PM

It saddens me that these facts and figures will be read by so many blind eyes.

comitan - 5-31-2007 at 07:37 PM

How can we be concerned with those figures that are a drop in the bucket when our government is spending Mega bucks more on useless endeavors.

Cypress - 5-31-2007 at 08:04 PM

It's downright mind-boggeling.

Dennis

Baja Bernie - 5-31-2007 at 08:22 PM

They are not blind they just refuse to see................A trillion bucks is absolutely not peanuts and I have never seen a bucket that large. As long as folks believe that then there is no hope for our grandchildren or their grandkids.

Both countries are in the process of decline and for the reasons stated in this quote:
"Luxury ruins republics; poverty, monarchies." Montesquieu, Charles De

vacaenbaja - 5-31-2007 at 08:31 PM

Quick! I have heard that the American Indians have extended
amnesty to those illegal aliens that entered their country,
overstayed their welcome and over ran their land.
Act now to be legal members of the Mayflower Society.
I am not sure if the penalty can still be paid in beads and
trinkets.
As an immigrant coworker once whispered to me "You know
what is wrong with this country? Too many foreigners!"

oldhippie - 5-31-2007 at 09:20 PM

capt. mike

as you may know I'm sort of a numbers guy and your post with all those numbers is mighty suspicious. For example:

Number of Illegal Aliens in the Country: 20,807,645

Now how do they know that? Tell me. You sure it's not 20,807,646?

That statement alone makes me think that all the data you presented can't be believed.

At 15 million the number of illegals is 5%. That means 95% are legal. Relax folks, we may be spending a few % helping folks that are here illegally, but we're spending a whole lot more killing, well I won't go there.

fishbuck - 5-31-2007 at 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

Quote:

Finally some attention! Thank you Lee.
I'm surprised that no one besides OldHippie even commented.
But I'm not surprised that it was Lee because he seems to like calling me names. That's okay. Please exercise your right to free speech whenever you like.
And I'll shall do the same.
You don't need to agree with me or like what I say. You don't even have to like me. That is your right. It's called freedom of association.
I also have the right to pursue happiness. And it makes me happier to look at good looking women than short fat ugly ones.
In fact I saw a beautiful asian lady today and decided that I will make a petition to replace all the short fat ugly mexican ladies in West Costa Mesa with hot looking asian ladies from Thailand, Phillipines and Viet Nam. Maybe GrassFire can help me. After I'm done there I'll start on Baja. I don't see many good looking native girls there either. And I've been looking. And OldHippie, pros in strip clubs don't count.
When I said we get the throwaways I mean that we certainly don't get the winners from mexican society we get the losers. Anybody successful(or the beautiful women) stay in Mexico. We get the ones who Mexico doesn't make a place for.
So I stand by my right to like beautiful women instead of ugly ones(they hurt my eyes). And Lee feel free to call me a racist or sexist or any other derogatory words you can think of. It's your right.
God Bless America!

[Edited on 6-1-2007 by fishbuck]

[Edited on 6-1-2007 by fishbuck]

Sharksbaja - 5-31-2007 at 10:48 PM

I take it you're not "short, fat & ugly" :biggrin:

I agree about eye-candy value. Most men ~~would~~should like it, duh! :lol:

Diver - 5-31-2007 at 11:54 PM

I'm not sure what the purpose of this post was meant to be.

I guess that if something ILLEGAL doesn't affect you personally then it's OK ??

Personally, I've never been raped or murdered (illegal things) so I guess it really doesn't HARM me, personally.

Is that what you're looking for Skeet ?

Or more like;
My kid's schools are fighting to keep their heads above water partly due to illegals (non-tax paying) occupying almost 40% of the seats.
Our social services programs constantly run short of money, partly due to the huge strain of non-tax paying ILLEGALS.
Our roads and other infrastructure improvements are underfunded due in part to the huge social services outlay for ILLEGALS.
Unfortunately, 90% of the names on the police blotter in our area are mexican - every month !
(with only 25% max in the local population.)

Don't get me wrong. There are many, many things that I enjoy about the Mexican immigratiion. It just needs to be done legally and at a pace that our economy/infrastructue can handle.

.

[Edited on 6-1-2007 by Diver]

yes OH - you are right - very observant of you.

capt. mike - 6-1-2007 at 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldhippie
capt. mike

as you may know I'm sort of a numbers guy and your post with all those numbers is mighty suspicious. For example:

Number of Illegal Aliens in the Country: 20,807,645

Now how do they know that? Tell me. You sure it's not 20,807,646?

That statement alone makes me think that all the data you presented can't be believed.

At 15 million the number of illegals is 5%. That means 95% are legal. Relax folks, we may be spending a few % helping folks that are here illegally, but we're spending a whole lot more killing, well I won't go there.

that extra guy in the count walked over the AZ border whilst i were typing!

i now have vowed to give em back some of their medicine!
i am sneaking into baja, and will hang until i am caught! :bounce:

oldhippie - 6-1-2007 at 06:35 AM

Fishbuck,

Somebody said somewhere on this website that there are 2 categories of Americans in Mexico, the wanted and the unwanted.

Maybe vice-versa is also true?

Tortillas and frijolies refritos do make for pudgy people, as do big macs.

Capt. Mike, sneaking into baja? Are you going to walk south through the desert? Please swim south around the fence at Imperial Beach into Tijuana so I can take a picture.

ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT ME?

bancoduo - 6-1-2007 at 07:02 AM

oldhippie - 6-1-2007 at 07:13 AM

Hey Diver,

An incredibly insightful and profound Nomad posted this on another thread:

Some quick googling and simple arithmetic indicates that 5% of the population is here illegally and the annual cost to the American taxpayer is one half of one percent (0.5%) of what the US Treasury department collects in taxes every year.

Facts open to debate:

number of illegal immigrants is tough to know, let's say 15 million

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0516/p01s02-ussc.html

population of the US: 302 million:

http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html

15/302*100 = 5% of population illegally here

cost of illegal immigration: 10 billion per year

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

gross taxes collected by treasury (2003):

1,969,648,000,000 (that's close to 2 trillion)

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-128253003.html

10,000,000,000/1,969,648,000,000*100 = 0.5%

Diver - 6-1-2007 at 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldhippie
Hey Diver,

An incredibly insightful and profound Nomad posted

I read Al's post and thought it was a nice story.
As I stated, this is the situation in our local area.
Spread it over the US and the numbers are less; we pay for the impact locally.
Isn't that what Skeet asked ??

As for who does the work; LEGAL immigrants, either Mexican or others.

And I didn't see any crime stats in Al's story either.
Anyone know how many illegals are in our jails ?
Anyone know the crime stats for these groups by population ?
(Way higher than their population perentage.)
Check it out, you will be enlightened.

.

.

[Edited on 6-1-2007 by Diver]

ha!!!

capt. mike - 6-1-2007 at 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldhippie
Fishbuck,

Somebody said somewhere on this website that there are 2 categories of Americans in Mexico, the wanted and the unwanted.

Maybe vice-versa is also true?

i would but the water smells funny there. :wow:

no, i am flying in. i have a new tuberclulosis screening device i want to walk thru next to my parking spot and check it out. :lol:

latortugaguera - 6-1-2007 at 09:00 AM

OMG!!! I see some insensitive, outrageous, sexist and most of all RACIST! RACIST! RACIST! RACIST! comments. I truly hope this fish stays away from Baja.

DENNIS - 6-1-2007 at 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver

Anyone know how many illegals are in our jails ?

Who would know? It's probably a violation of their constitutional rights to ask.

Fishback: Trolling for attention here cuz I get none at home...

Lee - 6-1-2007 at 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck

So I stand by my right to like beautiful women instead of ugly ones(they hurt my eyes). And Lee feel free to call me a racist or sexist or any other derogatory words you can think of. It's your right.
God Bless America!

[Edited on 6-1-2007 by fishbuck]

[Edited on 6-1-2007 by fishbuck]

Nothing personal here fish. Disrespect Mexican women, or others, and I"ll point out to everyone what a slimeball I think you are.

Link websites like Grassfire to this forum, and I'll call it racist and hate filled, and if you identify with that, knock yourself out.

As for stirring the pot, or trolling for attention, you'll get the short version from this point, and if I think you've crossed the line, I"ll click on the ''report'' button. No problema, amigo. That form of censorship seems to work from time to time. If nobody responds to your drivel, it might be that they haven't got the time to address a troll. Guess it takes all kinds. I see that in Baja. Those less wanted. What can any of us do to help you?

:cool:

Dennis

Baja Bernie - 6-1-2007 at 12:18 PM

Yes! I do but, remember, numbers don't matter.

I will pass this information along.......Should all of the illegal aliens be deported back to Mexico there would be no over crowding nor any need to build additional prisons in California for many years.

fishbuck - 6-1-2007 at 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

Quote:

Wow, Lee you must be psychic. I live alone so no not much attention at home. Yes I do have some spare time to play on message boards because I'm recuperating from a broken shoulder.
I'm sensing some hostilty from you. Maybe when you called me a "slimeball" was when I noticed. What is that exactly?
I hope it's not bad because I might have to report you for saying something I don't like.

Lee you are quite the noble defender of mexican women. Good for you. I guess that's your cause. You know like GrassFire. We all have our causes don't we?

You want to help me?. Okay I could use the address of a really good brothel in baja.
Thanks in advance Lee

Skeet/Loreto - 6-1-2007 at 02:15 PM

Might I say, as an ole Texas Cowboy, that has benn Dacin and Lovin all Styles, Shapes and Forms of Women That:

BEAUTY IS IN THE EYES OF THE BEHOLDER!!!!!!

Thanks again, you Posters have brought forth what I intended, that is the Personal Harm caused by Mexicanos, but did you notice that most of the Emotional Harm stated always concerned MONEY?

I contend that the Many Mexicano coming to this Country has been a good thing and will even be proven to be a better thing for our Country in the Future.
I think that the Illegal problem will be solved, but ILLEGALS were not suppose to be part of this Post.

How about some reports on the Good, Positive things that you Personally know?
Meantime, I am headed to the Coors World Ranch Rodeo to watch the Ranch Hands, Drink some Beer{Coors which I dislike} notice some Skinny and Plump Cowgirls doing Barrell Racing, and enjoying my Life with Friends.

Smoked Brisket, Chicken Fried Steak, Beans and Gravy and some Great Calf Fries! Wish you were all here to enjoy it with me.

Skeet/Loreto

Defender of Mexican women. Hey! I like it!

Lee - 6-1-2007 at 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck
Wow, Lee you must be psychic. I live alone so no not much attention at home. Yes I do have some spare time to play on message boards because I'm recuperating from a broken shoulder.

Wow. Sorry to read that. Guess you have time on your hands. I've heard that injury is painful. Hope you're on meds? Bump it up some?

Honesly, I'll cut you some slack. Only have one cause in life right now and it's chilling in Baja. Me trimming at 9 Palms, or enjoying the crowds at Old Man (Costa Azul).

All I know is this: disrespect women and you're disrespecting someone's mother or sister. In the roads I travel, you wouldn't last long. Just an observation.

Not looking for another friend, amigo, but I'd still buy you a beer -- in Baja. Get well soon. My Mexican friends might find you interesting.

:cool:

Mexitron - 6-1-2007 at 05:08 PM

Skeet--we've been enjoying brisket all week--smoked us up a big one over Pecan and washed it down with Shiner!

Skeet/Loreto - 6-2-2007 at 06:56 AM

Aguera:
Would you Please start another Thread and Define "Racist" or "Racism".

Skeet

Bajajack - 6-3-2007 at 11:56 AM

Although I'm new and recently registered I've been reading these forums for quite a while and personally am a little shocked at the Animosity & Hostility shown to members who voice an opinion others dont deem politically correct.

Stating fact's or their opinions doesn't necessarily make them Racist or Sexest, many times It's just simply the truth.

toneart - 6-3-2007 at 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajajack
Although I'm new and recently registered I've been reading these forums for quite a while and personally am a little shocked at the Animosity & Hostility shown to members who voice an opinion others dont deem politically correct.

Stating fact's or their opinions doesn't necessarily make them Racist or Sexest, many times It's just simply the truth.

Whereas I agree with your premise, which supports free speech, I would like to offer this observation:
When you read this forum for awhile you become familiar with attitudes and prejudices of frequent posters. Patterns begin to emerge that you can stitch together. Racism, sexism, sensitivity, arrogance, thought police, etc. all become apparent. They go with the territory. I believe that most here are expressing their personal truths. :smug:

Hey Skeet --

Lee - 6-3-2007 at 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Aguera:
Would you Please start another Thread and Define "Racist" or "Racism".

Skeet

I'll start a thread on racists and racism but only if you jump in too. Maybe you ought to start it.

:cool:

Skeet/Loreto - 6-3-2007 at 07:02 PM

Lee: No You start It! I have done enough Harm for One Thread.

I have never yet had those two Words Defined: Maybe that we have smeone who can Try.

Skeet

Politically Correct

CaboRon - 6-3-2007 at 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS[/
Hey, Lee my friend.....

Fishbuck shouldn't go anywhere just because you don't agree with him. He should stay right here and express himself, more, in my opinion.
Where do you come off telling people how they should express themselves?
Is that the American way you espouse? My way or the highway?
What insulting crap. I'm surprised it came from you.

While I really feel Fishbuck's comments are deplorable ..... I absolutly support his right , no, his duty to express his views ........ I just finished fifteen years in the Political Correctcrap of the Dizney company and I am sick of people being told what to say ...... That's my rant. CaboRon

Cypress - 6-3-2007 at 08:03 PM

"Politically Incorrect" is a truth that peees too many people off. :spingrin:

CaboRon - 6-3-2007 at 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
"Politically Incorrect" is a truth that peees too many people off. :spingrin:

TRUTH As in a proven theorum? I'm not sure I am understanding you. CaboRon :?:

Cypress - 6-3-2007 at 08:23 PM

CaboRon, Truth as in "Fact". :yes:

CaboRon - 6-3-2007 at 08:26 PM

Oh, Because to be politically uncorrect is truthfull, and a spontanious expression which is possibly genuine truth .... more so than the implied untruthfulness of being Politically Correct which is socially sanctioned mis-speak. Yes, 1984 has come and gone and "Truth-Speak" is the dictated law of the land. :?:

CaboRon

Cypress - 6-3-2007 at 08:36 PM

Reality might be a better word.

Gee Skeet -- read the posts below your post and know why some here post to read their words only.

Lee - 6-3-2007 at 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Lee: No You start It! I have done enough Harm for One Thread.

I have never yet had those two Words Defined: Maybe that we have smeone who can Try.

Skeet

No thanks. No interest, no time, don't care much for what's being said.... like other's have said, why bother? Debating the merits of PC vs. Non-PC is basic stuff. It'll take awhile for these guys to catch up with the rest of us.

:cool:

fishbuck - 6-3-2007 at 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Lee: No You start It! I have done enough Harm for One Thread.

I have never yet had those two Words Defined: Maybe that we have smeone who can Try.

Skeet

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

Quote:

Originally posted by bancoduo

BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PLEASE -- no teasing.

:cool:

Ya Lee it's going to take some of us a while to catch up with you alright.
LIKE NEVER!

Iflyfish - 6-4-2007 at 01:49 AM

In my forty years of travel in Mexico the worst I have experienced is some petty theft and harassment in places I knew better than to be in. My experience here in the USofA with Mexican's is the same.

The illegal immigration issue is very complex and will not very easily be resolved.

Diver makes a very good point when he addresses the reality of class seats and social services being used by people who are here illegally and the cost of those services are paid out of the public coffer. I think that these problems would not be as significant were it not for the fact that class sizes have increased in the past twenty five years and funding for public health has decreased. Therefore we all are left to fight for the scraps from our public wheel. This pits social class against social class and the bigger picture is lost. I believe that this may be why this issue is now being placed so prominently before our eyes. Perhaps we are not supposed to be looking at a bigger picture. It is much easier to have a scapegoat to blame for social ills, the Jews have played that role for centuries, the Italians and Irish also served this purpose in earlier times.

I am not denying that problems exist, or that they have worsened. We have allowed our borders to be permeable for decades and have under funded education and social services for decades. We have under funded our national infrastructure for decades. We have under funded our National Guard for Decades and now have sent them off shore to substitute for a standing army.

Our nation’s values have been to wage war rather than to make choices to spend our resources on national health care for all, decreasing class size, fully fund education and build public infrastructure like Public Health, FEMA etc. So the increased population of Mexican immigrants, legal and illegal, taxes all of our public services including education and health care.

Our borders have been a joke for decades and this problem has never been adequately addressed because there are powerful vested interests in having a cheap labor supply. The Military/Industrial Complex, that Eisenhower warned us about, has a powerful vested interest in having perpetual ongoing war. This cost has driven this country from a surplus to record deficits in the past seven years! These deficits create a situation where it is impossible to provide adequate funding for education, public heath, safety and social services.

The Insurance/Pharmaceutical Lobby has a vested interest in seeing that the only Health Care System that we will ever have is one that provides them with vast profits each year. The fact is that forty five million of us do not have medical insurance and we have one of the most costly health care systems in the world. Add to this mix an influx of even more people who do not have medical insurance and you further tax an already overburdened and failing system.

It is not the Mexicans that are causing these problems as Bernie and others have so well said.

"Look not at the sliver in your neighbor's eye, but the mote in your own eye" Jesus said something like that. I think he would spin in his grave......metaphorically speaking.......if he saw how we treated the poor these days!

Iflyfish

Skeet/Loreto - 6-4-2007 at 07:03 AM

IFlyFish: That is a Good Post!!

I often wonder through, where would we be if all of the Excess Money was spent to eliminate the Poor?? It appears to me that we have done much Better in our Country than many others.
The need for the Production of Wealth is Great, some people have that desire and Work toward their Goals, some do not Work and do not have that same Desire to Produce Wealth.
Somewhere along the Way, I learned that I did not want other peoples leavings, only that which I produced from my on Abilities- Think I learned that when I was a HObo riding the Rails at 17 years Old.

It does appear that in todays Culture it is Easier to "Blame" others for our own Shortcomings, than to Stand up and Fight, we it comes from the Education System, The Govt., the Mass Media.

Skeet/Loreto

fishback defends his deplorable bahavior? Muchacho malo!

Lee - 6-4-2007 at 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
While I really feel Fishbuck's comments are deplorable ..... I absolutly support his right , no, his duty to express his views ........ CaboRon

I'm not alone fish. And I do defend your right to civil liberties. This forum isn't a democracy, though. Abuse your priviledges to post and you pay the price. Guess you haven't quite crossed the line. Wanna play the race card again?

Hee hee hee. That really rubs you the wrong way, doesn't it? And I suspect Cabronito (affectionately, Ron) has similar issues too. Work up Norte for the PC crowd then decide that anything goes down South. I see it alot. Americanos Feo. Muy trieste. Rebelling against authority figures is something that generally get's worked out in adolescence. We all did it.

I'll defend you guys when you're in line. When you step out, well.... the gloves are off. You like it that way, don't you?

Mexican women (in the USA) are ''throwaways." Am I quoting you correctly?

Ah, yes, a cool Pacifico with my tacos desayuno.

:lol: