BajaNomad - If you were going to invest $100K

If you were going to invest $100K

JZ - 6-12-2007 at 03:21 PM

in land somewhere in Baja where would you start looking. 5-10 year investment.

Cypress - 6-12-2007 at 03:35 PM

I'd be looking for a cosigner

baja Steve - 6-12-2007 at 04:30 PM

LA PAZ

capt. mike - 6-12-2007 at 04:40 PM

mulege.
governor bought a lot, building a retirement home seasonally of course, and pushing development of the malecon both sides, airport to be improved the worx.............move your boat to the new marina JZ!

comitan - 6-12-2007 at 04:44 PM

Not just La Paz, but La Paz Commercial land.

Diver - 6-12-2007 at 06:08 PM

Mulege', San Nicholas, Bahia Asuncion, Abreojos, San Juanico ......

Sallysouth - 6-12-2007 at 06:35 PM

For investment only, or to live on also? Big difference, IMHO.

bajabound2005 - 6-12-2007 at 07:42 PM

Do you know the song from the Bare Naked Ladies..."if I had a million dollars....", I'd be rich!

But, this is NOT the US; if I had $100K to blow, forget "invest"... it may or may not be an investment, but you can surely spend it, certainly in real estate, but in as sure as a deal as you think you can get; or a business, or Mexican Corp with a lawyer who works for YOU.

[Edited on 6-13-2007 by bajabound2005]

tim40 - 6-12-2007 at 08:59 PM

Comitan: tell us more on your thoughts on commercial property investment in La Paz. Always interested in anothers view. Type, location, seek/avoid...etc.

bajaguy - 6-12-2007 at 09:04 PM

Baja Country Club......houses have appreciated approximately 20K in one year.......

Baja&Back - 6-12-2007 at 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
Not just La Paz, but La Paz Commercial land.

How about that derelict house next block west of El Taste? Prime on the malecon. Think they'll take 100 big?

bajamigo - 6-12-2007 at 09:13 PM

Colonet. If the port ever gets built, demand will be staggering. But it would have to be $100K that you'd be just as happy to put in a shoe for the next 15 years; it won't be doing much waiting for the port.

Dave - 6-12-2007 at 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
Mulege', San Nicholas, Bahia Asuncion, Abreojos, San Juanico ......

Great...If you're looking for a future home site. If you wanna make some money then Puertecitos south on the sea side and Colonet-San Quintin on the Pacific.

WARNING: I wouldn't invest nothin' that I couldn't watch...And I mean watch close.

JZ - 6-12-2007 at 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
If you wanna make some money then Puertecitos south on the sea side...

That was my first thought.

Cap - 6-12-2007 at 10:02 PM

playa del carmen

Al G - 6-12-2007 at 10:32 PM

100K in the right dirt will make you 1,000K in 2-3 year in in in......ahhh...Nope, I haven't got mine yet... :lol:

Capt. George - 6-13-2007 at 03:30 AM

listen to me very closely...................PLASTICS!!!

oh no, that was a different era?

capt. mike - 6-13-2007 at 04:52 AM

JZ - ?? why Puerto citos??
bad road. junky looking palapas all over, no power......sure i have friends with spots there, but as an investment??

jorgie - 6-13-2007 at 06:31 AM

Mike, has Concepcion been now zoned for high rise ? If so what are the parameters ??

vandenberg - 6-13-2007 at 06:34 AM

Loreto Bay??
Only need 4 friends with equal amount of money.
Then sit back and watch your money grow.

capitolkat - 6-13-2007 at 06:42 AM

Comitan says La Paz and I agree-- still mostly Mexican but developing rapidly. Money Magazine in 2003 rated La Paz as one of the top 10 places to retire in the world--small and large activity going on all around with some pressure on the local building trades, and land prices have been - not creeping up but going up rapidly. The developer of one project in El Centenario advises that the value of lots purchased in the project have escalated between 50-400% in the last two years but the project has water and sewer- electric is in and phones are on the way. Once the project is done and the developer gets out of the way my opinion is that it will begin the journey to Pedregal status in La paz.

Now don't rip me for what is versus what used to be and the change degrades the quality of life etc. The question was about investment potential and that's what I answered.

Norm

oldhippie - 6-13-2007 at 07:04 AM

I know most will think I'm crazy but I'd say authentic mexican and sustainable Las Playas de Tijuana. There's a few beach front lots still available towards the south end and some beautiful houses are being built. 100K may get a lot. 20 minutes to the border, all modern services available, quiet upscale beach community with good schools, hospitals, new shopping plaza, and prospective buyers include both Americans and Mexicans.

backninedan - 6-13-2007 at 07:48 AM

Ed, lets get 365 people together, then we could share the wonderful authentic mexican village a day at a time.

jerry - 6-13-2007 at 09:00 AM

when investing remember fees like
FM3
FIDIOS OR CORPORATION FORMING AND REPORTING
MEXICAN CAPITAL GAINS TAXES AND US TAXES ON FORGIEN INVESTMENTS

JZ - 6-13-2007 at 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
JZ - ?? why Puerto citos??
bad road. junky looking palapas all over, no power......sure i have friends with spots there, but as an investment??

Not Puetocitos, more like around Gonzaga Bay. But it was just a first random thought. Tell me more about locations in Mulege.

[Edited on 6-13-2007 by JZ]

oldhippie - 6-13-2007 at 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
And most important, don't invest more than you can afford to lose.

This is a popular notion, but I think out of date. Assuming you used a notario and a fideicomiso, and title insurance if you can get it, how could you lose all you invested. Remember, no questions are stupid questions. Please explain.

wilderone - 6-13-2007 at 11:05 AM

Invest? A big difference versus "spending." An investment would imply that you intend to get all your money back and additional capital gains. This scenario would be based on an initial bargain purchase in the first place, well planned, efficient capital improvements, a developed "good will" if that applies to a commercial venture, and a willing buyer. Factors to consider which would derail that scenario are: land is not worth what you paid for it; inadequate insurance to cover fire, flood, title, or other loss which would totally wipe you out; quality construction with low rip-off component; quality management and financial controls and low rip-off component; and of course, a no buyer who would want your business or property for the price you need to sell it for, given the amount of money you've put into it.
Other places like Costa Rica and Panama beg for investors offering special incentives, and the land is still relatively cheap. Be sure to do your homework - and beware the advice from chickencoopers on this Board (unless from a knowledgeable source like Bruce, et al.).
A project that has even me (a knee-jerk environmentalist) intrigued, is a small (I think 12 estate homes - and by "estate" I mean lot size, not mansions), project in the Guadalupe Valley wine country. It would be the perfect combination of peace, quiet, rural, agricultural, AUTHENTIC Mexican, close enough to the beach and big city Ensenada or US, not too hot in the summer, not much outlay to get to frequently, vineyard views. And IMHO, I think El Rosario has a lot of room to grow and will become an important destination for those seeking to get past Ensenada on a 2-3 day Mexican adventure. I read on Lonely Planet travel forum, people from all over the world come to So. California on vacation, and want to go to Mexico for 2-3 days just to experience a little of Baja CA. It's bus ride convenient, has decent accommodations and food, but needs maybe some local transportation or tourist guide service to see some of the nearby sites. Advertising for local panga fishing, diving locales; a bar or two with evening music. Roast pig dinners once a month under a palapa? Now there's an investment!!

El Camote - 6-13-2007 at 02:25 PM

Regarding south of Puertecitos, looks like the famous "16 mile house" (as we call it) on the cliffs is for sale along with some other large parcels in the area. Not too specific about locations and prices though. If I had the dough-re-mi and could sit on it for a few years, I wouldn't hesitate on some dirt in this area...

http://www.desertmother.net/listings/listing3.html

Since they're listing so much property in the Gonzaga area, you think they'd learn how to spell it on their website listings. :no:

...wait a minute, did I spell Puertecitos correctly?

[Edited on 6-13-2007 by El Camote]

La Paz or Todos Santos and Pescadero...

Lee - 6-13-2007 at 02:56 PM

First, forget about BCN. Winter there is the same as SoCal. It doesn't warm up until the 28th Parallel.

Definitely La Paz. It's a great town, great weather and great people. Oh, did I say great restaurants. Great diving and fishing and kayaking. Check it out.

If the Sea of Cortez doesn't work, try TS and Pescadero. I have land in Las Tunas, a few miles North of town, and am thinking of putting about 2 lots (3,000 m2 total) on the market. Check with my agent http://www.todossantosguide.com/realestate/pescaderoproperti... Power, water, view, walk to the beach.

BCS and BCN is like NorCal and SoCal. Night and day.

:cool:

oldhippie - 6-13-2007 at 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
No explanation really necessary except that you are in a Foreign country...........

So let me get this straight, when a Canadian moves to a foreign country, say the United States, and buys property they stand a more of a chance of losing everything than an American would?

I think I've just proved your explanation is bogus. So, do you want to try another explanation of why someone buying property in Mexico should be prepared to lose everything?

[Edited on 6-13-2007 by oldhippie]

comitan - 6-13-2007 at 03:43 PM

Sir oldhippie I have deleted all of my posts on this thread because I am commenting on something I know nothing about. I therefore have let you have the last word.

Commitan makes a point.

Lee - 6-13-2007 at 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
Sir oldhippie I have deleted all of my posts on this thread because I am commenting on something I know nothing about. I therefore have let you have the last word.

I'd say it's possible, but not probable, that anything like the Ensenada confiscation will ever take place in Baja again.

At least those with FM3s might stand a chance of not losing RE if there were a revolution of some sorts.

Maybe what's being said, also, is that foreigner's have no rights. I would agree with that. Not totally but that statement is true in part.

Eh?

:cool:

capt. mike - 6-13-2007 at 04:16 PM

Lee - i love your area and property...............but it needs a GA airport we can use before i'd buy any.
with one in place i'd buy right a way, great micro climate.
but i gotta be able to get in and out sans driving for several trips a year. :yes:

oldhippie - 6-13-2007 at 06:00 PM

comitan, pretty cool, you seem like a guy I could learn from.

Lee, not that I'm a big fan of Donald Trump but he has made a few pesos on real estate investment. Trump Baja is about 10 miles south of playas de tijuana. There is value in a warm climate like you suggest, but there is also value in being able to drive to Southern California for a day. Tecate and the wine country between Tecate and Ensenada are also becoming popular as the coastal strip between TJ and Ensenada already is. For investment purposes northern BC can be a good bet. Not everybody is looking for a beach to go swimming.

You invested down there and made a good investment. I think I also did by investing up here.

SDRonni - 6-14-2007 at 07:33 AM

Comitan: Folks "invest" in real estate in Baja in different areas for different reasons. We invested in Las Olas Mar Y Sol, three miles south of the Trump property in Baja Norte. We got much more for our money than Trump is offering, PLUS we are on a beautiful, wide sandy beach, whereas Trump's property is on a rocky point. We chose this area because we live in San Diego and can get to our vacation home in 45 minutes door-to-door...no airfare or long drive needed! Though the weather IS much like So. Cal., what the heck is wrong with that? Except that, yes, the water is cold. We are retired, so this is a perfect fit for us. We are looking at our "investment" primarily as something for US to enjoy....if the value increases, so much the better, but we have gone into it with our personal enjoyment as the primary goal, not to make a killing financially. Check out www.lasolasdevelopments.com if you are interested in seeing all the Las Olas properties. FYI, our project is taking longer than originally predicted (surprise, surprise!), but we are anxious and excited about sitting on that balcony, margarita in hand and watching a beautiful sunset over the Coronado Islands. And, if you do choose Baja Norte, be sure to get a SENTRI pass! Five minutes to cross the border yesterday afternoon. Gotta love it! :lol:

Cypress - 6-14-2007 at 10:31 AM

Any money I spend in Baja will be in the "enjoyment" catagory. :biggrin:

But most of the money I ever spent has been in that catagory. :tumble:

Buying or doing anything as an investment takes the fun out of it. :biggrin:

aquaholic - 6-14-2007 at 10:36 AM

...it's already been mentioned, but there is a difference in "buying" a house and "investing" in real estate. My house on the Bay was never viewed as an investment to be held for a certain amount of time, but it has appreciated nicely. My thoughts of an investment are of a property that is a non-residence.

That being said, no one has mentioned what you can purchase for $100K in the areas that have been suggested. While I was in the Mulege area this spring, I was shocked to see what had happened to the prices. I don't think you could buy a waterfront lot anywhere around Mulege-Chivato-Concepcion Bay for under $100K. Any ideas what that amount would buy in the other areas mentioned..???

Cypress - 6-14-2007 at 12:33 PM

Do you really want to consider everything in terms of it being an "investment? :no:

If so, you're gonna be disappointed. :spingrin:

rpleger - 6-14-2007 at 12:59 PM

La Paz. Key word is investment.

SDRonni - 6-14-2007 at 02:54 PM

There are some developments on the east side of Hwy. 1 just north of Rosarito that, I believe, are in the low $100,000 range....the longer you wait, the higher the price......unless the tides turn like they have here in San Diego....prices have leveled off, but not dropped much....

nathan - 6-14-2007 at 07:07 PM

San juanico is getting paved. The property doubled here. Oh wait, it just doubled again while I was writing this post

sand won somewhere.........(right Juan?)

capt. mike - 6-15-2007 at 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nathan
San juanico is getting paved. The property doubled here. Oh wait, it just doubled again while I was writing this post

is one great spot, i love it there - would put a trailer there in a heartbeat and build a palapa as soon as they re build the pista which lost its license in 1990 abouts....that's when the phx chapter of flying sams had to quit going there.
there a few flyers with homes there, like Dr. John et al who leave their birds at Cadaje 10 miles distant, what a b-tch.

Calling Juan y Juan..........when will we see thAT NEW strip at San won someplace??!!! :bounce:

howat - 6-16-2007 at 04:39 PM

Hip hip huray. Not one of you mentioned where i'm going to spend my days in paradise. Keep pushing those soon to be if not already used up and over crowded areas. Wasn't Cabo a wonderful place in its day.

HH

comitan - 6-16-2007 at 04:53 PM

You mean when we used to park all winter on the beach road between the Hacienda Hotel and the Las Palmas Bar. And the Finnestera Hotel every afternoon for Cheap Margarita and watch the whales frolic.

:yes:

[Edited on 6-16-2007 by comitan]

Diver - 6-16-2007 at 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
Mulege', San Nicholas, Bahia Asuncion, Abreojos, San Juanico ......

Dave,
If that's what you think, you need to head south for a look see. Prices are going nuts all over the place. $100K buys a lot more in some areas than others.

I've got friends who have done VERY well.
How's a $15K purchase and a sale for $400K 14 years later in La Ventana ?
Or a $65K purchase and a $219K sale 3 years later in El Sargento ?
Or a $18K purchase and a $125K sale 4 years later in Abreojos ?
.

Sallysouth - 6-18-2007 at 01:18 PM

How about 25K, one year later, tripled? Hidden Hills (secret, sshhh) on the way to Todos Santos.

Osprey - 6-18-2007 at 01:25 PM

Yeah, land is better. A good friend reminded me that a sandwich shop would not be a good investment. Too much competition. Reminded me of the old quote "You can never starve in the desert because of all the sand wiches there"

Sallysouth - 6-18-2007 at 01:31 PM

Yup Osprey, it WAS undeveloped and just keeps growing in value as the power, sewer, electric,roads, etc. get put in .Land is the way to go if you have the $ to spare IMHO.

amir - 6-18-2007 at 01:42 PM

Quote:

I've got friends who have done VERY well.
How's a $15K purchase and a sale for $400K 14 years later in La Ventana ?
Or a $65K purchase and a $219K sale 3 years later in El Sargento ?
Or a $18K purchase and a $125K sale 4 years later in Abreojos ?

This is crazy!
I understand that it is a bonanza for investors, but it wrecks havoc on the local economy. It creates inflationary trends that Mexicans cannot afford. Then the locals sell ancenstral land because of the lure of inflated prices. Then the big investors come to make more profit. Then everybody complains about development and high prices and they b-tch on the Nomad Board about investors like Loreto Bay et al.
It all starts with the little greedy guy that buys land for speculation and profit. They don't see the vicious cycle this creates.

--Amir

Dave - 6-18-2007 at 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by amir

It all starts with the little greedy guy that buys land for speculation and profit. They don't see the vicious cycle this creates.

--Amir

Sellers are equally to blame. The greedy little guy can't get to first base without them.

toneart - 6-18-2007 at 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by amir

It all starts with the little greedy guy that buys land for speculation and profit. They don't see the vicious cycle this creates.

--Amir

Sellers are equally to blame. The greedy little guy can't get to first base without them.

Whew! That greedy little guy sure has been busy. :wow:

amir - 6-18-2007 at 03:22 PM

Dave, that's exactly what I'm talking about : The vicious cycle - An investor buys to sell! The buyer becomes the seller, then they invest the profit and speculate again. The stakes become bigger and bigger, until we have over-development. That's the nature of profits and investments, to make more of it.

IMHO, what's ruining Baja is this unlimited investment for profit. Buying and selling, buying and selling, buying and selling. This cycle eventually displaces the poorer natives to the mountains and leaves the beaches for the super-rich to speculate on.

--Amir

SDRonni - 6-18-2007 at 08:24 PM

We just bought one place, for ourselves and friends to enjoy. There are others who bought in our development (Las Olas Mar Y Sol), who bought several units, and are reselling now before they're even completed so that the unit they want to keep will be free and clear before they move in. Must be nice......

Sallysouth - 6-18-2007 at 09:34 PM

Well yes Amir, I see your point and agree, however, my family is living and working in Baja, also born there ,so the investment eventually will be for the land they will live on or if they so choose ,to sell. I am only investing for them and hopefully I will be able to spend my "wonder years" there also.!!

amir - 6-18-2007 at 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sallysouth

... however, my family is living and working in Baja, also born there ,so the investment eventually will be for the land they will live on or if they so choose ,to sell. I am only investing for them and hopefully I will be able to spend my "wonder years" there also.!!

I don't have a problem with this. There is a difference when the property is, or will be, your primary residence, or a vacation home, or you are buying it for relatives to live in. The problem arises, to me, when someone owns many properties solely for the purpose of investment and speculation. Speculation is the key word here.

If property value appraises while you are holding it, and then you or your heirs sell it at a profit, that's good. But how many houses can one live in at any one time? Is it okay to own many properties for the sole purpose of making a profit? In my opinion, no. But then that may be the reason why I am still poor and probably always will be... I was never savvy enough to just profit from real estate holdings and investments, and maybe I begrudge those who do.

I see landlords that get rich from their investments, and I see hardworking families who spend most of their income on rents on properties they could never own, thus making the rich richer and the poor poorer. Mortgages are great for the banks who own them, but they are terrible for the tenants who have to pay them. I see this as some kind of oppression and since I'm sort of an idealist this was a good thread to express my opinion... the other side of the story...

Few investments are designed to be win-win situations. While the profit motive was being overemphasized in this thread, I wanted to point out that when someone profits obscenely, that somebody else is paying for that, and there are other repercussions that affect others in a negative way.

--Amir

Nicole - 6-19-2007 at 12:48 AM

Thanks Amir for stating things so succinctly.

We yearn to buy in Todos but have watched the prices inflate at an alarming rate as we scramble (for almost ten years now) to save enough to secure a corner of paradise for our young family.

I have been thinking and wondering how can local families possibly afford to stay and I guess the answer is that they soon won't be able to and that is sad. I have always been a great believer in only taking for yourself what you truly need to be happy... greed breeds great unhappiness where enough can never be "enough".

I appreciated this thread because it gives the non-investors amongst us new ideas on where to focus our search for a family home.

jerry - 6-19-2007 at 09:44 PM

nicole and Amir nearly everyone in the usa could buy a home of there own because some have chosent not to nore take the tax advantage and live only for today dosent mean that all the others are greedy people
if it wasnt for owner landloards they would be living in the streets
the landloard takes his hugh investment (tax deductable because with out the tax advantage noone would be a londloard) and intrusts it to people for a small return over a long period of time risking it some times loosing tens of thousands$$ in damages in one lease in the hope that the next renter will be a good one
everyone wants to walk in to a deal someone else walked into a few years back but you neet to take the risk if your gona take the profit
if you dont like this system well guess you cant even go to Russia for socialism cause it just dont work
the rule of making money is the people who have the money make the rules
think about it if your a shopper the day after thanksgiving and you read the papers and show up at 4 in the afternoon you might as well stayed home you missed the boat thats life have a good one

I was there in those days too....

kellychapman - 6-19-2007 at 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
You mean when we used to park all winter on the beach road between the Hacienda Hotel and the Las Palmas Bar. And the Finnestera Hotel every afternoon for Cheap Margarita and watch the whales frolic.

:yes:

[Edited on 6-16-2007 by comitan]

yes yes yes...I was there in those days running on the beach with my young beautiful body.... :bounce:

doing a bit of frolicing myself...after a few tequillas...lol...those were the good ol' days of yesterday....

jerry - 6-19-2007 at 10:03 PM

PS Nicole if you really believe what you say you dont really need a place in baja its really beyound your need you allreaddy have a place in BC are you being greedy wanting a place in baja too??

Amir i think you do begruge the people who do well at investing
weather it be in the stockmarket real propertys or your brotherinlaws new idea all investment is done for a profit and all investment profits someone so fish or cut bait
there are a tremendos amount of people especally in the usa who are living for today only way beyound there means yet expext that the world is there oyster some one has to pay the piper

Sallysouth - 6-19-2007 at 11:08 PM

If you can understand that, then I would have to say AMEN!!! :?:

oldhippie - 6-20-2007 at 05:53 AM

As far as land speculation goes, I like the clauses in the sales contracts that require a buyer to make improvements. I think they're included in sales of lots over 1000 meters??? This prevents the obvious speculators who want nothing more than to drive up the price.

But if speculate you must (we are talking money) an under 1000 meter lot at $20 a meter sounds like a good deal to me. Anybody got one?

tim40 - 6-20-2007 at 08:59 AM

it is actually 2K square meters. The way to get 'around' it is to place it into a MX corporation. Perfectly legal as long as you do not try to use it for a personal dwelling. Did mucho research on this earlier this year. Much more to it...but this is the general scoop.

oldhippie - 6-20-2007 at 09:47 AM

You're right it is 2000 meters. I remember the lots in Cerritos all being 1900+ meters. I have a friend that went the MX Corp route. His business is buying and selling land, after he lives on it for several years. I think he named the corporation Mota Verde. :cool: