BajaNomad - Ultra low sulphur diesel????

Ultra low sulphur diesel????

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fossilnut - 6-27-2007 at 06:19 PM

We just purchased a new 2007 Chevy diesel pickup which we HAD planned to use for Baja trips. But I've been hearing hints of information that the ultra low sulphur fuel which we need may not be available in Baja. Does anyone know what the truth is? Also.. if not available, what would happen if we were to use regular diesel fuel?????

Thanks.

Sandy

bajalou - 6-27-2007 at 06:24 PM

Probably ought to ask your Chev dealer the consequences of using a "non-approved" diesel fuel.

Bob and Susan - 6-27-2007 at 07:05 PM

i just got one too....

the dealer service dept told me "no problem"
warranty is 100.000 miles

it's in mulege now...

2 tanks of pmex
i'll report any problems :tumble:

Bob and Susan - 6-27-2007 at 07:27 PM

they ALSO told me...
emissions warranty is for 5 years

if the fuel kills it the dodge dealer will fix for free
the computers are supposed to fix any emissions problems....

we already needed a computer software upgrade :tumble:

all 2007's needed it

David K - 6-27-2007 at 07:28 PM

Instead of guessing, why not ask BajaCactus?

It used to be reported that Mexican diesel was better than U.S.!!??

Diver - 6-27-2007 at 07:33 PM

For those with older trucks the problem, if any will be with a lack of lubrosity. Reducing the amount of sulfur reduced the lubrosity of the fuel which can cause drying of O-rings etc. It is suggested to use an additive like Dieselkleen that increases the lubrosity and boosts cetane with every tank. You could also add 2 oz of 2-stroke oil per 8 gallons of fuel or a 10% bio mix to replace the lubrosity.

Newer trucks are supposed to use low-ash oil and fuel additives to avoid clogging so the 2-stoke option is no good for them. Check with your dealer for recommended additives.

.

Roberto - 6-27-2007 at 07:47 PM

No guessing involved - ULSD is not available in Mexico.

I certainly hope that warranties will be honored, because you WILL have problems using "standard" diesel.

Bobbuzz - 6-27-2007 at 08:05 PM

I have an 06 Chevy w/Duramax. At 20K miles now with over 3K in Baja.
No issues so far.
Don't know if an 06 is different than 07 (except the 100K warrenty) :?:

Truck seems to run fine on the Mex Diesel.
I sure like the 1.30 discount per gallon.

Roberto - 6-27-2007 at 08:10 PM

As far as I know, the '06 vehicles are not "regenerating", ULSD motors. That started in '07.

Diver - 6-27-2007 at 08:19 PM

From the DEC website:

3. What happens if I fuel my new truck with the old higher sulfur fuel?

Incorrectly fueling a 2007 model year or later engine with high sulfur fuel will damage the emission controls. The catalyst will be rendered useless and the emissions will not be controlled. Excess sulfur will plug the particulate trap which may cause a back pressure and possibly damage the engine. Fueling a truck with a 2007 and later model year engine with high sulfur fuel will void the engine warranty and is against federal law.

.

Bobbuzz - 6-27-2007 at 08:28 PM

Well I guess that is good news for the 06 and older owners.
If it has a catalitic converter like some gas engine cars it could be removed if you are living in Mex.
I promise not to tell on you.

Crusoe - 6-27-2007 at 08:40 PM

Great subject....... Very important....In past years when refueling some vessels with diesel in alot of out of the way spots internationalywe found out there was a big wide gap in the consistancy of diesel fuel. We found water in the fuel was always the bain. We could always tell by running the motors on the vessels we were delivering to everywhere and back.... that by listening closely to how the engine or engines would sound we could determine if they wre running starved or rich. Extra loud or "pingy" we would add 1/4 cup of 20w for every 2 gals of fuel added. If the exhaust was to dark then we would add more diesel. Trust your instincts and ears. Ive noticed the same is true in newer trucks. You can can always add MARVEL MYSTERY OIL.... it works great too. I never leave home without it!!!! ++C++

Frank - 6-27-2007 at 09:36 PM

Im hanging onto my 2006! I dont care how cool that tailgate step is :spingrin:

Diesel Bajo Azufre...

BajaCactus - 6-27-2007 at 11:37 PM

My friends,

For several months now, Pemex Refinacion (that is the part of Pemex that produces fuel) has been producing Low Sulfur Diesel, known in Mexico as "Pemex Diesel Bajo Azufre".

This type of Diesel has been distributed all around Mexico for more than 8 months now, slowly replacing the old one (When received, it gets mixed with the old one, so it takes a while to reach it's optimal low sulfur quality).

Pemex also sent mobile laboratories throughout Baja to check on the new Diesel quality at the beginning of this year... they arrived at BajaCactus in february 2007... they checked our Diesel and told us it was already 98% Low Sulfur, back then, and according to them, at our Gas Station, it should not have taken more than a couple of weeks to achieve it's optimal levels.

At this point it is supposed to be all around Mexico.

On a related note, also Premium fuel has also been upgraded to a Ultra Low Sulfur version, known as "Premium UBA" (Ultra Bajo Azufre).

Regarding the quantity of sulfur in each fuel, I do not know... but if you guys really need/want to know, I would be happy to try and find out for you.

In the near future, you may begin to see the change in the Gas Stations signs of the new fuel... it just takes a while since those are expensive and the owner of the Gas Station has to pay for them out of their profits.

Hope this info helps my friends.

BajaCactus
"Where the Baja is so much more than a dream..."

[Edited on 6-28-2007 by BajaCactus]

Diesel_Premium.jpg - 40kB

Bajafun777 - 6-28-2007 at 12:13 AM

I have a diesel 2003 Chevy 2500 HD Silverado and have had no problem with using Mexico diesel in it nor has my brother with his 2006 Dodge 2500. I try to change my fuel filter every fourth oil change just to try and keep problems away if possible. I had a diesel mechanic advise me to do so. Now I have a friend that had a 2007 Chevy 2500 and he did have some problems (noise to the engine he said) using Mexico diesel and after only trying it once will not do it again. So, with Baja Catus answer it looks like with all of the changes Mexico is making maybe this is not a big wave problem as first thought. I do not use any additives but after reading these posts I think I will start. You can never be too sure and if there is something that might lessen the risk of something happening then it's worth trying. Now what is considered the better additive to diesel that you want to swear by because you believe it really makes a different in your vehicle? I appreciate Baja Catus giving his take on this problem and hopefully nothing happens to anyones' trucks. We all know the difference in making a rebuilt engine for a gas vehicle verses a diesel one. Seems like it saves you a lot of costs an then for these what if repairs but sitting around never has been my favorite things. Later------ bajafun777

Sulfur Content...

BajaCactus - 6-28-2007 at 12:15 AM

Ok Guys, here you go... the memo (resumed and translated, if you want to read the full note, in spanish, go to: http://www.apartados.hacienda.gob.mx/novedades/espanol/docs/...):

On January 30th, 2006, the Secretary for the Environment and Natural Resources (Semarnat), published in the Federal Official Diary, the "Specifications for fossil fuels for the protection of the environment", in which are stated the new requirements Pemex will have to comply with, in order to produce and commercialized the fuels and diesel that are sell throughout our country.

The new Premium Ultra Low Sulfur, should have an average of 30 millions per part of sulfur (30 ppm), while the new Pemex Diesel Ultra Low Sulfur will have a maximum of 15 ppm.

These new norms and specifications, are the result of a revision process that started in May of 2002, and in which the private, public and academic sectors participated.

It must be noted that Pemex began to delivered the Premium fuel with the required specifications on October 2006. The quality required should be gradually met, due to the actual existence of fuel in the Gas Station's tanks, with a high content of Sulfur.

Regarding Diesel Ultra Low Sulfur (Diesel UBA), it's introduction began on October 2006, in Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua. In January 2007 in will be extensive throughout the Northern part of Mexico and then to the rest of the country.

We should be reminded that in Mexico we only have two kinds of Diesel... Regular diesel and Marine diesel... that is it... while in the States the are several ones, each with different quality and quantities of sulfur.

BajaCactus
"Where the Baja is so much more than a dream..."

[Edited on 6-28-2007 by BajaCactus]

Sulfur Content in the States...

BajaCactus - 6-28-2007 at 12:25 AM

This an excerpt of the Wikipedia Website on Sulfur Content in the States (if you want to read the full note go to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low_sulfur_diesel)

United States

Ultra-low sulfur diesel was proposed by EPA as a new standard for the sulfur content in on-road diesel fuel sold in the United States since October 15, 2006, except for California and rural Alaska. California required it since September 1, 2006, and rural Alaska will transition all diesel to ULSD in 2010. This new regulation applies to all diesel fuel, diesel fuel additives and distillate fuels blended with diesel for on-road use, such as kerosene, however, it does not yet apply to train locomotives, marine, or off road uses. By December 1, 2010, all highway diesel will be ULSD. Non-road diesel will transition to 500 ppm sulfur in 2007, and to ULSD in 2010. Locomotive and marine diesel will also transition to 500 ppm sulfur in 2007, and to ULSD in 2012. There are exemptions for small refiners of nonroad, locomotive and marine diesel that allow for 500 ppm disel to remain in the system until 2014. After December 1, 2014 all highway, nonroad, locomotive and marine diesel produced and imported will be ULSD.

The EPA mandated the use of ULSD fuel in model year 2007 and newer highway diesel fuel engines equipped with advanced emission control systems that require the new fuel. These advanced emission control technologies will be required for marine diesel engines in 2014 and for locomotives in 2015.

BajaCactus
"Where the Baja is so much more than a dream..."

Bob and Susan - 6-28-2007 at 05:48 AM

this IS good news

thanks antonio...

i'm already "burnin" pemex diesel

from your station

these "lack of lubricant" stories were spread long ago when unleaded gas was introduced too...

my "old hot rods" never had problems with unleaded fuel either...
even though they "required" leaded

alot of these stories are spread from backyard mechanics who really don't know :spingrin:

i'll sure tell you when the truck "croaks"

fossilnut - 6-28-2007 at 06:21 AM

Thank you, thank you, thank you for the information.

We won't be heading for Baja till October/November so hopefully everything will be working smoothly by then. I was really worried that we'd made a monster mistake by purchasing the new truck. (We'd shopped for used and found either big mileage/abused trucks or trucks that cost almost the same as new). I wasn't looking forward to spending the Winter in Arizona and only dreaming about Baja OR messing up our new truck and getting to know every mechanico in Baja!!!

Thanks again everybody....

Sandy

bajalou - 6-28-2007 at 08:08 AM

One thing to remember about diesel fuel in Mexico is that diesel automobiles and small trucks can not be owned and registered in Mexico as private vehicles - The only diesel vehicles that can be licensed are commercial (or marine). They are not producing fuel with the PowerStroke, Duramax and Dodge/Cummins crowd in mind.

David K - 6-28-2007 at 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Jorge

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
I was refering to this: Fuel in Mexico is probably >500 ppm sulfur.

That sounds like a guess to me...

Guess again, guru. :lol:

Go back to Shell Island ad talk about somethng you know.

http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/mx/fuel.php

In Mexico Low sulfur grade (Diesel Sin) of 0.05% = 500 ppm sulfur content, and Standard grade diesel is 0.5% sulfur content. Now that has some lubricating properties!

Dear Don Jorge, please understand that I am only after the facts and when you said 'probably', it sounded like a guess... to which I suggested asking the expert, a Pemex station owner ('Baja Cactus')... I never claimed any expertise only where to get the answer.

Thankfully, our good friend Antonio 'BajaCactus' has provided the facts and the news is good for all you diesel folks... Aren't you glad?

People, because I post a lot on Nomad does not make me a 'guru' or expert, only that I love to help people and enjoy interacting on some topics... I also have a lot of Baja knowledge to share and am the oldest Nomad after Doug that has been continually active on this forum... thus the high number of posts. I am here to learn as much as I share, and there is so much more Baja that I have not seen then I have.

Thank you Antonio for your time to post the facts!

[Edited on 6-28-2007 by David K]

Diver - 6-28-2007 at 08:32 AM

Apparently a very good initial suggestion from DK.

And thanks to Antonio for updating us with the facts from Pemex.

.

David K - 6-28-2007 at 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto
No guessing involved - ULSD is not available in Mexico.

I certainly hope that warranties will be honored, because you WILL have problems using "standard" diesel.

Bajajorge - 6-28-2007 at 09:41 AM

With this new low sulpher diesel stuff I know I'll be keeping my 04 Dodge Diesel for quite some time. Cuz it's going to take Pemex quite some time before they start selling low sulpher. My truck just loves that high sulphur content Pemex diesel. I get about 4 mpg more per gallon (3.78 ltrs) when I'm in the Baja. :bounce:

Bob and Susan - 6-28-2007 at 10:31 AM

Jorge
if you're "backyard diesel mechanic" DON"T buy a new diesel

unless...you are a computer guru :no:

oh yea the fence hasn't melted yet...i'll report when it does :lol:

805gregg - 6-28-2007 at 10:58 AM

Just looked at my owners manual for my Jeep Liberty diesel, it says Chrysler recommends using diesel fuel with 15 ppm Sulfer or less, where available. So that must mean if it's not available then use what is?

Hook - 6-28-2007 at 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 805gregg
Just looked at my owners manual for my Jeep Liberty diesel, it says Chrysler recommends using diesel fuel with 15 ppm Sulfer or less, where available. So that must mean if it's not available then use what is?

What year is your Liberty? That makes all the difference in the world.

I agree with Don Jorge. Based on how much different my diesel runs on Mexican diesel (as recently as last week), it doesn't seem like low sulphur diesel to me. It runs much better and quieter than on the USA ULSD. I think what Pemex says and what it does can be quite different.

I plan on keeping my Y2K F-350 for a while. Only 130k on it which is supposed to be only about 1/3 of it's life expectancy.

[Edited on 6-28-2007 by Hook]

tripledigitken - 6-28-2007 at 11:44 AM

In talking to our Equipment Manager, I work for a large Civil Engineering Company with lots of diesel equipment both on and offroad, he is concerned with the effects of the new low sulfur fuel on pre 2007 engines.

He equated it to the situation when unleaded fuel was released and older engines had problems with valve seats. I personally didn't have problems but I recall some did.

I'm sure the marketplace will develop additives to correct the problem, if infact there really is one.

I'm not selling my pre 2007 Ford Powerstroke anytime soon.

I agree that independent testing of the Pemex diesel would be a good idea to ease the fears of those with 2007 engines.
Running old high sulfur fuel in the new motors will cause expensive repair issues according to our people that deal with diesel powerplants.

Ken

What year diesel?

Lee - 6-28-2007 at 12:03 PM

Does anyone know what kind of fuel a '05 PSD is taking?

:cool:

elgatoloco - 6-28-2007 at 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee
Does anyone know what kind of fuel a '05 PSD is taking?

:cool:

Both LSD & ULSD.

2007 supposed to ONLY take ULSD.

My wife's :dudette:

1999 PSD has 197,285 mostly trouble free miles and lots are with diesel purchased south of the border.

805gregg - 6-29-2007 at 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

Quote:

My Liberty is an '06, love this little Jeep plus 25 mpg and 20 gal tank.

bajalou - 6-29-2007 at 07:35 AM

Quote:

On a related note, also Premium fuel has also been upgraded to a Ultra Low Sulfur version, known as "Premium UBA" (Ultra Bajo Azufre).

.

The newest Pemex on the circle in San Felipe has the sign and pumps marked for the UBA gasoline. Nothing for the low Sulphur diesel yet.

[Edited on 6-29-2007 by bajalou]

Hook - 6-29-2007 at 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 805gregg

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

Quote:

My Liberty is an '06, love this little Jeep plus 25 mpg and 20 gal tank.

Well, as I understand it, '07 is the year that engines had to comply with the requirements of ULSD. I think you can burn both.

Bob and Susan - 6-29-2007 at 11:22 AM

thats right hook...

thats why it says ONLY to burn Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel

the computer does the rest

runs fine so far...

viabaja - 6-29-2007 at 06:48 PM

Dudes!

Mexican Pemex Diesel - >500 PPM Sulfur - good stuff
US Diesel - 15 PPM Sulfur- bad stuff

Use as I do Stanadyne Performance Plus - 2004.5 GMC Duramax

2007 diesels - you are outa luck!

Bob and Susan - 6-30-2007 at 05:13 AM

from baja cactus....
"For several months now, Pemex Refinacion (that is the part of Pemex that produces fuel) has been producing Low Sulfur Diesel, known in Mexico as "Pemex Diesel Bajo Azufre"."

don't you remember the shortage a few months ago when pemex was changing over to the new formula????

now...low sulfer fuel comes out of the diesel pumps

so far so good :saint:

new trucks are better than OLD trucks

BUY a NEW truck :lol:

enjoy life :saint:

Bajalover - 6-30-2007 at 08:08 PM

This is a good discussion. Diesel fans should check out = www.thedieselstop.com and look in the forum section. ULSD has 15ppm vs old 500ppm. The new diesels being produced have "catalitic converters" in the exhaust system and higher than 15 ppm fuels will "kill" the converters. "Costly adventure". The pre 2007 diesels will have to make certain additives are used "stanadyne, etc" to make sure all the parts IE: pumps, seals, orings and the like keep their lubricity. Otherwise you may be looking a problems sooner than you think. I thought Baja also introduced the ULSD fuel earlier this year - give or take, yet some stations in the USA still offer both fuel types. IE: El Paso, Tx - Flying J's have both 500 and 15 ppms at 2 different stations.
Well ULSD or not - BAJA IS GETTING CLOSER AND CLOSER. Just need daughter to get better and I'm back at the beach, kayaking, bbqing, margaritas, pacificos, and more. Aaaahhhhhhh what a life.

LSDF

Johnson - 7-28-2007 at 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fossilnut
We just purchased a new 2007 Chevy diesel pickup which we HAD planned to use for Baja trips. But I've been hearing hints of information that the ultra low sulphur fuel which we need may not be available in Baja. Does anyone know what the truth is? Also.. if not available, what would happen if we were to use regular diesel fuel?????

Thanks.

Sandy

Johnson - 7-28-2007 at 04:52 PM

Sandy or anyone else. I have a new 2008 ford diesel. Have you gotten any info on the ULTRA LOW SULFUR DIESEL FUEL on the Baja. Dont put the old LOW SULFUR DIESEL FUEL in your 2007. Please advise me if you have any info as we were planning on pulling our 5th wheel back to the Baja this Fall. thanks Ben

ultra low sulfur diesel fuel

Johnson - 7-28-2007 at 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
from baja cactus....
"For several months now, Pemex Refinacion (that is the part of Pemex that produces fuel) has been producing Low Sulfur Diesel, known in Mexico as "Pemex Diesel Bajo Azufre"."

don't you remember the shortage a few months ago when pemex was changing over to the new formula????

now...low sulfer fuel comes out of the diesel pumps

so far so good :saint:

new trucks are better than OLD trucks

BUY a NEW truck :lol:

enjoy life :saint:

Johnson - 7-28-2007 at 05:05 PM

Baja Cactus....It is important for all of us that have new 2007/2008 ,ford, chev and dodge diesel engines. They will only burn ULTRA LOW SULFUR DIESEL FUEL, they will not burn the LOW SULFUR DIESEL FUEL that you have mentioned. LOW SULFUR DIESEL FUELS could be used in the US and Canada prior 10/06. Please let all of know if the new ULTRA LOW SULFUR DIESEL FUEL is available on the Baja. If not there will be many of us that have bought new 2007 and 2008 diesels that wont be able to come back to the Baja this winter. The LOW SULFUR DIESEL FUEL will not burn in the new diesel engines. There are many changes. Thanks.Ben Johnson..benalyn@juno.com

ULSD

Johnson - 7-28-2007 at 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajalover
This is a good discussion. Diesel fans should check out = www.thedieselstop.com and look in the forum section. ULSD has 15ppm vs old 500ppm. The new diesels being produced have "catalitic converters" in the exhaust system and higher than 15 ppm fuels will "kill" the converters. "Costly adventure". The pre 2007 diesels will have to make certain additives are used "stanadyne, etc" to make sure all the parts IE: pumps, seals, orings and the like keep their lubricity. Otherwise you may be looking a problems sooner than you think. I thought Baja also introduced the ULSD fuel earlier this year - give or take, yet some stations in the USA still offer both fuel types. IE: El Paso, Tx - Flying J's have both 500 and 15 ppms at 2 different stations.
Well ULSD or not - BAJA IS GETTING CLOSER AND CLOSER. Just need daughter to get better and I'm back at the beach, kayaking, bbqing, margaritas, pacificos, and more. Aaaahhhhhhh what a life.

Johnson - 7-28-2007 at 05:12 PM

Thanks.I have researched the ULSD fuel. The only reason why some stations still have both fuels is because they havent emptied all their diesel tanks. When they do this they are required to sell only ULSD fuel. We need to know if they are selling this fuel in Mexico yet as we have just purchased a new 2008 ford diesel. If they dont sell it on the Baja we wont be going back until they do. Thanks for your info and help. Ben Johnson email benalyn@juno.com

Roberto - 7-28-2007 at 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto
No guessing involved - ULSD is not available in Mexico.

I certainly hope that warranties will be honored, because you WILL have problems using "standard" diesel.

So, KOB, what's funny? Did I miss the part where Antonio said he has (or gave a schedule for having) ULSD? Or which stations have it? Or when they'll have it? Are you ready to buy and drive a ULSD vehicle (Toyota is rumored to have one soon, will you LEASE one of those?) All of a sudden you believe press releases from Pemex?

Keep up the "I never attack people" Mantra - apparently it's working for you and your lemmings believe it.

[Edited on 7-29-2007 by Roberto]

Bob and Susan - 7-29-2007 at 08:11 AM

still running the 2007 Dodge Diesel on Pemex Diesel...

no problems

Low Sulfur Diesel...

BajaCactus - 7-30-2007 at 03:11 PM

There has been a lot of talk and many opinions about the low sulfur diesel... the problem relies in that some of the people that talk about it do not have all the facts nor the proper information, therefore create a lot of confusion.

The low sulfur diesel issue is an international effort to protect the environment, it is not unique to the States or Mexico, in fact, Europe and Asia have been working on this for a few years now... we are just catching up.

The idea is to get to a point where all on-road diesel around the globe has 15ppm of sulfur or less... regardless of how you call it, Low Sulfur, Ultra Low Sulfur, Less Sulfur, Almost no Sulfur or whatever.

In some places, they are making their way to the 15ppm sulfur content in steps... therefore they have diesel, low sulfur diesel (with 500ppm) and eventually Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel.

Either way, the idea is to get to the 15ppm sulfur content on diesel.

In the States you have several types of diesel, depending on the use, and the sulfur content on them varies... in Mexico we only have two types: Regular diesel and Marine diesel.

The one you put in your car is the same used for off-road, construction and any other equipment that runs on diesel... no difference.

In Mexico, low sulfur diesel (or ultra low sulfur diesel), which has content of 15ppm (or less) of sulfur, has been slowly introduced nationwide since last year (October 2006).

In Baja California Norte, all gas stations began receiving it (and therefore selling it) since January 2007. In Baja California Sur it has not been introduced yet... they are schedule to have it in the later part of this year.

Pemex will not order nor authorize any signs about low sulfur diesel until they make sure every Gas Station in Mexico has this type of diesel... this is the reason for the mobile lab units being sent to every gas station in Mexico. Maybe they when they finally order the change of signs the name will be change to Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel...who knows.

Now... this information comes not only from "Pemex Memos" or Government Press releases... we at BajaCactus have received Pemex's lab technicians making low sulfur tests to our shipments of diesel... Also, I took the liberty of personally calling the Commercial Director at the Ensenada Pemex Distribution Center to find out what information they had. Everything points to the same: low sulfur diesel has been slowly being introduced throughout Mexico for almost a year now.

Now... whether anyone choose to believe it or not... well, that is another story... the facts will remain the same.

Enjoy Baja my friends...

Antonio M.
BajaCactus
"Where the Baja is so much more than a dream..."

[Edited on 7-31-2007 by BajaCactus]

Roberto - 7-30-2007 at 03:16 PM

Antonio ---

It's not a "personal" issue. It's more like "If I spend 50K on a brand-new ULSD ONLY vehicle, can I safely take it to Baja?". And, regardless of what direction Pemex is going, the answer, at this point is no. Do you disagree?

Bob and Susan - 7-30-2007 at 03:19 PM

Roberto that's 56K :biggrin:

and it burns OK...

what's the WORST...a CAT converter???

smog warranty is for 5 YEARS...no way out of that for the dealer

Roberto - 7-30-2007 at 03:29 PM

Bob, sorry, but I would NOT drive that truck on regular diesel. What do you think will happen if you have problems and you take it to the dealer?

Bob and Susan - 7-30-2007 at 04:14 PM

"they" WILL repair it...I checked...

"they" get paid by the manufacturer

Russian Roulette

Roasty - 7-30-2007 at 04:32 PM

So an owner of a Pemex gas station, a trusted Nomad, is saying that the Diesel being distributed in BCN is compliant.
Whats the problem ?

And thats $64K by the way !

Bob and Susan - 7-30-2007 at 04:34 PM

$250k for a "diesel pusher"

Roberto - 7-30-2007 at 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roasty
So an owner of a Pemex gas station, a trusted Nomad, is saying that the Diesel being distributed in BCN is compliant.
Whats the problem ?

And thats $64K by the way !

If that's what he said - there is no problem? What did I miss? The only thing I saw was that stations started receiving it, and there will be no signs stating what you are getting. Forgive me for being skeptical about this, but given the costs involved, I like to KNOW what I'm getting.

Antonio, if youo would - what are the results of those sulfur tests that were done on the fuel in your tanks?

Roasty, you drive a ULSD vehicle? Are you putting your money where your mouth is?

Let me just say this - it's not about (me) being right or wrong. I am wrong multiple times a day 24/7/365 - I don't give a chit. But if I'm driving a 50K (plus) vehicle, I am not going to take chances by putting the wrong fuel in it. Stations have been receiving it, testing has been done, you will not find signs stating what you are getting, BCS doesn't have any - honestly, does this sound like a doable situation. If you're not the one putting the bucks on the line, sure.

[Edited on 7-31-2007 by Roberto]

Hook - 7-31-2007 at 09:07 AM

I think some are under the misconception that if higher sulphur diesel is run in a 2007 or later vehicle and the cat converter starts to go south that you will only do damage to the cat converter. UH-UH ! It can clog to the point where damage can be done to other components and systems of the engine.

Now, when a stateside dealer finds out that you have been running something other than ULSD in your truck (likely very obvious from observing the tailpipe or inspecting the cat), do you think they will honor the warranty?

That is, apparently and literally, the 64,000 dollar question.............

[Edited on 7-31-2007 by Hook]

Bob and Susan - 7-31-2007 at 10:54 AM

true... :lol:

Roberto - 7-31-2007 at 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
I think some are under the misconception that if higher sulphur diesel is run in a 2007 or later vehicle and the cat converter starts to go south that you will only do damage to the cat converter. UH-UH ! It can clog to the point where damage can be done to other components and systems of the engine.

Now, when a stateside dealer finds out that you have been running something other than ULSD in your truck (likely very obvious from observing the tailpipe or inspecting the cat), do you think they will honor the warranty?

That is, apparently and literally, the 64,000 dollar question.............

[Edited on 7-31-2007 by Hook]

My understanding is that the regen cycle cannot work due to the much larger sulfur content in the fuel. I would imagine that, eventually, you could have a truck that runs almost constantly on regen. I don't know what the consequences could be, but my experience has not been good with warranties when not following manufacturer specifications.

davidre - 7-31-2007 at 11:26 AM

Baja Cactus is right on and I for one, wish to PLEAD WITH HIM to go ahead and find out the OFFICIAL Petroleos Mexicanos data with regard to sulfur PPM. The "old" Pemex diesel fuel was quite yellow, rife with sulfur. Then the company introduced DIESEL SIN and the color changed to something very similar to what we had in the states in the mid-nineties.

In the mid 1970's there were gringos who swore up and down that Mexico would NEVER have lead-free gasoline. They subsequently changed that to "Enough Unleaded Gasoline", finally it was "A good quality unleaded gasoline".

They were proved wrong on all counts. I wouldn't want to be one who now shouts that ultra low sulfur diesel will never appear in Mexico.

Hook - 7-31-2007 at 12:28 PM

"I wouldn't want to be one who now shouts that ultra low sulfur diesel will never appear in Mexico."

So, who did that in this thread ??????

I think many of us are just saying that since the introduction of ULSD is spotty in Mexico (even by Antonio's post, as I read it) that it isn't worth the risk to an expensive truck right now.

Manana, probably.........

Diesel Depression

Roasty - 7-31-2007 at 02:30 PM

So it looks like I will have to fill up the new 2008 F-250, and also, 3 each 15 gal containers, ($100 ea at Pep Boys) at Baja Cactus, in order to ensure ULSD for the round trip to BOLA.
Where do you get those big square plastic containers with the steel mesh around them ? There always seems to be somebody filling one up on the back of a truck in front of me when I try to buy diesel. Might have to keep an emergency supply at the Casa.
What a pain.

bajalou - 7-31-2007 at 04:57 PM

The farmers who have tractors have to get their diesel at the same pump you do.

Bob and Susan - 7-31-2007 at 05:07 PM

if your afraid of pemex diesel burn mcdonalds oil :lol:

i hope theres no sulfer in that :lol:

just buy it ... and enjoy yourself

you can't take that truck with you :lol:

STOP worrying

bigboy - 7-31-2007 at 05:34 PM

I'm extremely happy that I bought my Ford Excursion equiped with a V10! Never had a problem with fuel and hauls my 10,000 pound boat just fine.

BajaCactus - 8-2-2007 at 01:58 AM

Guys,

Thank you so much for your vote of confidence of the information I have posted here about Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel.

Now, let me tell you something: every bit of information I have gathered and written here is the "OFFICIAL Petroleos Mexicanos data"... everything I have posted here comes personally from what Pemex officials have told me over the phone as well as from memos and official documents we have received at our gas station regarding this issue. There is nothing in what we have posted that we imagine or think should be.

Now... it is true that at BajaCactus we are not a laboratory for Sulfur Content tests, we are only passing on information... what they tell us is what you are getting. As well, if they would inform us that sulfur content is higher we would also pass that info along.

However, I do understand your high preoccupation for your vehicles, this is why I have asked and received from Pemex the guidelines for requesting a certified sulfur report on ULSD... as you may imagine, being Pemex a Government office, they like bureaucracy... and it is a ton of paperwork and filing and copies and stamping and... well, you get the picture.

They explained to me that it is a very unusual request since in Mexico diesel is mainly produced for the agricultural and marine industries, not private vehicles (remember the government subsided diesel price you get when coming to Mexico?).

Now, just a thought... if Diesel in Mexico is mainly produced for farming, marine and commercial vehicles, not tourism... why do Pemex would need to lie or misinform about ULSD?... I mean, if tourism diesel vehicles are not even close to being their main source of revenue and, since in Mexico we do not have any other choice for a diesel source... why would they need to falsify memos and official documents?... What would their purpose be?... we mexicans would have no choice if they sold us 2000 ppm diesel sulfur content.

Well... just a thought.

So, I will begin the ton of paperwork for all of you and get back to post as soon as I have some new info.

Enjoy Baja my friends... well, at least those without diesel trucks... jejeje.

Antonio M.
BajaCactus
"Where the Baja is so much more than a dream..."

[Edited on 8-4-2007 by BajaCactus]

Bob and Susan - 8-2-2007 at 04:39 AM

this is above and beyond..antonio...thanks

Pescador - 8-2-2007 at 06:04 AM

Antonio, thank you for above and beyond the call of duty, this reinforces my already high opinion of your business acumen as well as you personal ethics and honesty.
I am a little disappointed in the others who seem to think that the problem lies with Mexico or the station owners. They sell what they have. I have known this for a long time and instead of buying a new diesel truck I have decided to stay with the old one a while longer or in other words I decided to take responsibility for those things which directly effect me instead of expecting the government of a foreign country to do that for me. Bob and Susan seem to be doing the same thing, they have a new truck and are accepting the consequences of their behavior if that leads to a problem in the future. A new truck may or may not have problems with the fuel so it seems that you either buy a used vehicle, keep the old one, or go to gas engines.

Bob and Susan - 8-2-2007 at 06:42 AM

there was NO option for us...

i'm currently driving too much to take a chance on a breakdown in the desert

if i was finished and stationary then i might have waited

Roberto - 8-2-2007 at 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Jorge
We appreciate your effort. I have a full tank of fuel from Tecates newest station I bought yesterday afternoon. I am gong to send a fuel sample to a lab in Salt Lake City and see what they come up with. Curious minds want to know.

Once again, thanks for taking your time to help us.

[Edited on 8-2-2007 by Don Jorge]

Ditto - the information will be much appreciated. And Don Jorge, I hope you post the results - I, for one, will be interested in the results. I would also be interested in the address of the lab.

Bob and Susan - 8-2-2007 at 12:35 PM

whatever you do DON'T mail that stuff :fire:

Bajalover - 8-2-2007 at 04:50 PM

Good Job Antonio, I'm glad I'm driving a 2003 diesel which will burn anything I throw into it. Love Baja.

Pemex oficial e-mail

BajaCactus - 8-4-2007 at 01:10 PM

My friends,

I have began the process for getting the Pemex Report for ULSD... the ping-pong game started, it just a matter of seeing through... jejeje.

In the meantime, let me mention you something, so you are not caught off guard... there has been an "Official Pemex" e-mail circulating online, where supposedly there is ULSD only in some cities of Mexico.

------------------ Here's the OFFICIAL answer ---------------------

From: Villa Montaño Guillermo < gvilla@ref.pemex.com>
Date: Aug 1, 2007 10:24 AM
Subject: RE: ULS Diesel

We only have ULSD fuel in this areas: Rosarito, Mexicali, Nogales y Ensenada, this information was confirmed by our west sales representation.

Regards
Guillermo Villa Montaño
Gerente de Ventas al Mayoreo
Subdirección Comercial
Pemex Refinación

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, this e-mail refers not to the cities itself, but to the Pemex Distribution Depots on those cities (you can see he wrote "areas", not "cities")... the official is not mentioning this because if you understand how Pemex moves the fuel in Mexico, it is assumed you will immediately understand this.

The "West Sales Representation" mentioned in this e-mail, is our direct Pemex Supplier down here at BajaCactus.

For example, when he mentions Ensenada, he is referring to the Pemex Depot in El Sauzal (north of Ensenada)... this Distribution Center is responsible for all the Gas Stations from Ensenada all the way to Jesus Maria (north of Guerrero Negro).

Also, I believe that at this time, there are other cities besides the ones mentioned there.

Safe travels everyone...

BajaCactus
"Where the Baja is so much more than a dream..."

[Edited on 8-4-2007 by BajaCactus]

Ultra Low Sulfur Fuel

DuramaxLMM - 8-4-2007 at 02:07 PM

Can’t wait for those lab results on the Tecate tankful, but in the meantime I can provide some more information about the diesel particulate filter (DPF) and the regeneration cycle on the new diesels.

I have a 2007.5 Silverado with the LMM diesel engine and have contacts well up in the Duramax engine department at GM.

1. Ford has a retrofit available for owners who need to run the truck in Mexico. I do not know if the cost is practical for Ford truck owners but it would be worth enquiring.

2. GM has no plans to market their new trucks in Mexico so there is no retrofit available and the owner’s manual warns that irreversible damage may be caused to the DPF if low sulfur fuel (LSF = 500 ppm) instead of ultra low sulfur fuel (ULSF =15ppm) is used.

3. The theory is that excessive amounts of sulfur compounds emitted in the exhaust gradually “poison” the DPF, causng it to clog with ash.

4. The DPF is a special ceramic filter which traps the soot, or black smoke. This soot has to be burned off, typically once per tankful, by higher exhaust gas temperatures created by injecting additional fuel on a computer controlled cycle.

5. If the backpressure in the DPF gets too high, from poisoning with sulfur, the engine goes into a special “limp mode”, with reduced power, and can only be reset by a dealer.

6. My GM contacts advise that they have tested the effects of using low sulfur fuel instead of ultra low sulfur fuel and, while they do not want to put anything in writing, they have not measured any serious problems. There is a “sulfur poisoning sensor” in the exhaust system but it has not registered a big problem in tests. This probably indicates that GM is using a newer type of DPF which has much greater resistance to sulfur poisoning.

7. Ask your local fire chief and he will tell you that new fire trucks have had DPFs for at least a decade, burning low sulfur fuel (500 ppm), for all of that time without any problems. This is a clue that the “damage” predicted by owners’ manuals for our new vehicles may be way overblown. It could well be a case of the manufacturers wanting to cover their rear ends, just in case.

Based on my research I will be taking my truck into Mexico in December, and I am confident that there will not be problems. However, I would still like to see the results of the fuel lab tests, and let’s hear from anyone who has already been in Mexico with one of the new vehicles. SOMEBODY out there must have done it already !!!

Bob and Susan - 8-4-2007 at 03:17 PM

i'm in mulege
we have a new dodge

several tanks of diesel run thru the thing already and no problems...

5000 miles since june...ouch

i'm driving to la paz monday and back to the states on wed

i'll report

Rolling the Diesel Dice

Roasty - 8-6-2007 at 12:49 PM

So the BOLA Pemex stations should be included in the Ensenada "Zone" coverage then?
I will be going down to BOLA next weekend, filling up at Baja Cactus so will come and say Hello !
Thanks for the insight.

DuramaxLMM - 8-12-2007 at 08:19 AM

Just wondering, Don Jorge, if you have the lab results back yet for that sample of diesel you got in Tecate?

And Bob and Susan, you say you have a "new Dodge". Does it have the diesel particulate filter (DPF) and the "Use only Ultra Low Sulfur Fuel" labels?

If so, your experience is what I'm expecting with my Duramax based on the inside info from GM.

Thanks
Ed

Bob and Susan - 8-12-2007 at 09:58 AM

two trips to la paz this week...
24 hours plus on the engine

no problems
no warnings
nothing

6000 miles on the truck
5000 miles with pemex diesel

and yes its the "ultra low sulfur diesel" type engine
i'm just poluting the enviorment :wow:

sorry everyone

DuramaxLMM - 8-12-2007 at 10:30 AM

Thank You - that's good news

Hook - 8-12-2007 at 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
two trips to la paz this week...
24 hours plus on the engine

no problems
no warnings
nothing

6000 miles on the truck
5000 miles with pemex diesel

and yes its the "ultra low sulfur diesel" type engine
i'm just poluting the enviorment :wow:

sorry everyone

no need to apologize...........you have no choice but to burn it.

I appreciate you conducting this experiment for us, in the face of your manufacturer's recommendations. Please keep us updated on any changes to its operation or warning lights.

The occasional tourist who runs 2-3 tankfuls on his vacation will probably not do anything to the systems. But your situation should be a good experiment.

805gregg - 8-18-2007 at 10:14 AM

I just got back 2700 miles in Baja, 06 Jeep Liberty diesel ran perfectly on Pemex diesel, although it was the same story at every station, you are at the wrong pump, or asked me 4 times diesel?

Back from Trip

Roasty - 8-21-2007 at 11:04 PM

Took the 08 F-250 down to BOLA this weekend and no problems with the Diesel purchased.
I'm now a believer !

DuramaxLMM - 8-22-2007 at 07:30 AM

Just a reminder - this thread is really related to the NEW diesels which have Diesel Particulate Filters - these were only introduced in 2007 models.

It is great that owners of vehicles pre-2007 can be assured that the diesel is safe for their use in Mexico, but older vehicles do NOT have a DPF, so telling us that it worked fine in Mexico doesn't actually help increase the knowledge base on this thread.

The helpful observations for this particular thread will come from owners with the notice "Use only Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel" on the fuel gauge. It is great to see some postings from these owners.

Bob and Susan - 8-22-2007 at 07:52 AM

i had a WARNING yesterday...
it said "you MUST change your oil IMMEDIATLY!!!"
of course i did :lol:

this was the fix...no joke

turn the ignition switch on
do not start
push the accelerator three times within 10 seconds
turn the ignition switch off

the warning disappears :yes:

i wonder if the next fix will be a "chineese fire drill"??? :lol:

Hook - 8-22-2007 at 08:03 AM

On another Mexican discussion board, I read a quote from someone who stated that

".....according to the Pemex website ULSD is supposed to be released in Chihuahua, Nuevo Leon and Jalisco in late 2008 rest of Mexico in 2009."

This is a quote from the other discussion board, not the Pemex site. I looked on the Pemex site and could not find this reference.

DuramaxLMM - 8-22-2007 at 08:05 AM

Did you have some oil with the low ash CJ4 specification with you? If not, you really should try to get some from the USA asap and do another oil change. Rotella T is now shipping in CJ4.

Based on my research, it appears that using the correct oil is MUCH more important than the fuel because every engine burns small amounts of oil and the pre-CJ4 oil produces too much ash. It will prematurely fill the DPF with ash.

The projection based on using low ash oil (CJ4) is that the DPF will on average need to be cleaned of ash deposits after 100,000+ miles but using the wrong oil will definitely dramatically shorten this range. (This ash accumulation is a different issue to the soot, which is regularly burned off during the regeneration cycles and is created by the burning of fuel.)

How many miles did you have on the truck when it demanded that you change the oil?

DuramaxLMM - 8-22-2007 at 08:07 AM

There's lots of information earlier in this thread about the availablity of ulsd in some parts of Mexico.

Hook - 8-22-2007 at 08:15 AM

I know.........and this quote refutes that.

Bob and Susan - 8-22-2007 at 08:25 AM

oil change warning at 6050 miles

changed the oil at 2500 miles

will change it next week too

DuramaxLMM - 8-22-2007 at 08:35 AM

Hmmm ... That's not many miles between oil change warnings. 6000-2500 = 3500. Most of the new automatic oil change systems are allowing at least 7-8,000 between changes. I wonder if the fuel is having an impact on the service life of the oil. I'd better carry an extra supply when I eneter Mexico in December, just in case.

DuramaxLMM - 8-22-2007 at 08:49 AM

Thank You Don. We'll be watching with interest for the first results.

Roasty - 8-22-2007 at 11:53 PM

Don Jorge, I have 14 gallons of Baja cactus diesel (purchased last Tuesday) in a metal auxiliary tank, sitting in my driveway in San Diego.
If you want to U2U me I can see about getting a sample to you.

Ultra Low Sulfur and New Dodge Diesel

paulb87 - 10-2-2008 at 11:54 PM

I have a new 2007.5 dodge with the new cummins 6.7 power machine, 6spd auto 4X4. It has the dpf and I heard all the spoooky stories from folks on the net. I called Cummins and they told me (off the record) that the new 6.7 will burn all diesel. They did say that it MAY clog the dpf in some instances such as low speed, short trips etc. I was in Baja Feb-Mar of this year from Ensenad to Cabo and back without a problem. We tow a 30ft 5th wheel and at highway speeds under load it just burns all the crap right outta there. I have the MDS Dashwak which shows when the engine is regenning etc and it regened as it does up in Canada. Check out the complete story on the BS about using ULSD diesel in newer diesels at RVNET.com
The use of ULSD is mandated by the EPA law/ratings to simply lower and reduce emmisions. It has nothing to do with the engines performance or dpf.
We are heading back Nov1 st....over 1000 miles on Pemex and running like a top.
Met some GM owners with newer diesels and they reported no problem at all.

Bob and Susan - 10-3-2008 at 05:06 AM

that's correct...

we are just not doing the "greenest" thing possible :light:

Russ - 10-3-2008 at 05:46 AM

paulb87 I couldn't find the article you mentioned at RVNET.com. can you post the address?

Teddy - 10-3-2008 at 07:21 AM

Stop worrying - there's absolutely NO problem using your 2007.5 or later engine in Mexico. However, do keep in mind the warranty rules if you decide to do so.

HERE IS THE THREAD YOU MUST READ at rv.net

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/2153...

The discussion covers all of the technical explanation, not just hearsay.

Hook - 10-3-2008 at 10:16 AM

I read that entire discussion on RVnet and your characterization of their being "absolutely NO problem using your 2007.5 or later engine in Mexico" is incorrect. Ed White clearly states that there could be deterioration of components approaching 40k miles of use. And he admits that warranty compliance could be an issue. Those are TWO potential problems.

He challenges anyone to find someone who has driven 40k miles exclusively on Mexican diesel and can document a problem. I would venture to say that there are very few, if any, owners of 2007.5 diesel vehicles WHO HAVE PUT 40K CONTINUOUS MILES USING MEXICAN DIESEL.

Teddy - 10-3-2008 at 10:33 AM

That was an interesting post Hook, because I happen to be Ed White, who made the lengthy science-based postings on RV.NET. I just happen to use a different name on this forum.

Here are my comments on the points you raised:

"Ed White clearly states that there could be deterioration of components approaching 40k miles of use. And he admits that warranty compliance could be an issue. Those are TWO potential problems."

It is correct that EPA and auto manufacturer testing of the emissions equipment measured gradual deterioration in performance of those systems after 40,000 miles of continuous use of fuels with higher than 150ppm of sulfur. However, the same testing showed that using higher sulfur fuels, for less than 40,000 miles, did NO PERMANENT DAMAGE. The emissions system components, that is the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) and the DOC (Diesel Oxygen Catalyst) recovered completely when put back on ultra low sulfur fuel for at least a couple of regeneration cycles (3 or 4 tankfuls).

"He challenges anyone to find someone who has driven 40k miles exclusively on Mexican diesel and can document a problem. I would venture to say that there are very few, if any, owners of 2007.5 diesel vehicles WHO HAVE PUT 40K CONTINUOUS MILES USING MEXICAN DIESEL".

Absolutely true - it is extremely unlikely that a Snowbird heading into Mexico for the winter is going to travel more than 40,000 miles before returning to the USA and resuming the use of ultra low sulfur fuel. That is exactly my point. It is safe to go there as a Snowbird, which is the group who are worried about the fuel.

I do, however, know of one owner of a Dodge, who lives near Todos Santos, who probably has more than 40,000 miles on the truck by now, and he has still not reported any problem. Not surprising, because the deterioration in the DPF does not really create exhaust backup until at least 70,000 miles.

The bottom line, as you know by reading the entire postings at RV.net, is that a significant number of owners of 2007.5 and later trucks have already had them in Mexico without any fuel related issues. The risk to be considered, is that there is NO warranty service in Mexico, so any problem which caused the truck to be undriveable would require the owner to tow it or ship it back to the USA.

[Edited on 10-3-2008 by Teddy]

[Edited on 10-3-2008 by Teddy]

Hook - 10-3-2008 at 10:54 AM

So, you're saying that it fixes itself IF you go back to ULSD fuel? What if you dont? then, 70000 is the life expectancy of the exhaust components listed?

Can you address the concerns of those who worry that , should they return to the US for warranty work, the dealer could void their warranty. That's a bigger concern for snowbirds than the accepted lack of warranty service in Mexico.

paulb87 - 10-3-2008 at 11:24 AM

Hi Ted...Paul here from N Van....kinda thought that was you
Thanks for providing the link to dieselstop.com so people can be informed about the EPA myths. The new diesel engine under load or highway applications burns the fuel efficiently and there is very little SOOT as a result. It is the SOOT that builds up in the DPF's that kill these things, particularily in bumper to bumper traffic, continuous long idling periods and short city runs. Thats why dealerships will often take out a newer truck for a 45 minute highway drive to regen the DPF. Simply to blow out all the crap from extended city driving. I know the diesel tech at the local Dodge dealership and he is completely aware of the amount of BS about using anything but ULSD. Bottom line is that if you are in low soot producing environment, ie hauling or highway speeds, you're not going to plug the filter. EPA regulates emissions not performance folks!
Have a good trip and leave me some of that PEMEX diesel!

Teddy - 10-3-2008 at 11:31 AM

Yes, the EPA testing in the years prior to the introduction of the emissions systems showed that returning to the use of ultra low sulfur fuel, which is no more than 15ppm, BEFORE reaching 40,000 continuous miles of high sulfur fuel use, does no permanent damage to the emissions components. The deposited and trapped sulfur compounds in the DPF and DOC are flushed out during regeneration cycles on ultra low sulfur fuel. It is only after 40,000 miles of continuous use of higher sulfur fuels that the sulfur compounds become permanently embedded.

During a conversation I had with an Engineer from the Duramax plant a year ago, he told me that during GM's testing they were unable to create a "sulfur poisoning condition". I do not know how many miles they ran the higher sulfur fuel because he wouldn't tell me, but you can bet that all of the automakers have run extensive field tests to see if they can create problems which could be traced back to using high sulfur fuels. I've never found any documentation suggesting that such a problem has been found.

As for the expected life of the exhaust components if you don't resume ultra low sulfur fuel use before 40,000 miles, I can't answer that question accurately because I have never been able to find any research papers on the subject.

However, we do know that automakers expect that the DPF will need special cleaning by a dealership at or around 100,000 - 120,000 miles. This is because even when using ONLY ultra low sulfur fuel, the ash buildup in the DPF gradually plugs it up. All of the automakers have prepared for this service requirement - a special machine is needed at the dealership to either blow or wash out the ash. That's why the DPF is made of stainless steel with stainless bolts - it WILL have to be routinely removed and cleaned from time to time.

Clearly, if sulfur compounds are allowed to permanently attach to the filter pores, they can not be removed, and the filter will plug sometime before its expected routine cleaning interval of 100,000 to 120,000 miles. And therein lies the reason why the Big 3 don't want to provide a warranty if you use high sulfur fuels. They could be stuck with replacing a plugged DPF, which is worth a few thousand dollars, before your Federally mandated emissions warranty expires. The fuel will not hurt the engine - it only hurts the emissions equipment if used continuously for more than 40,000 miles.

As for whether the warranty could be voided when an owner returns to the USA, please note that I am not providing this information in order to counsel people to break the law or ignore their warranty conditions. My interest is solely in sharing science based information to counter all the inuendo and incorrect perceptions which are floating around.

That having been said, if a truck is towed into a dealership in the USA with an engine problem, say, there would be no reason for the dealership to suspect incorrect fuel use. However, if they did test the fuel in the tank, and only found ultra low sulfur fuel, I would be surprised if they could deny warranty on the basis of the fuel.

All of this comes back again to my challenge, which is posted on numerous travel and truck related websites. Find me a single owner who has ever had a problem with either the engine or emissions system which can be traced to using Mexican fuel. In almost 18 months not a single person has come forward. In fact, failure or plugging of the DPF is so rare that it isn't even a topic of discussion on the diesel forums. I've never heard of a case myself. The emissions system components seem to be very reliable indeed.

One final piece of evidence which suggests that the use of high sulfur fuel from time to time is NOT harmful. In the USA it is still possible to find both ulsd and lsd fuels at places like Flying J. However, the filler hole to your tank allows you to place the nozzle from EITHER pump in that hole. Cast your mind back to when catalytic convertors appeared on cars - the filler hole was made smaller to PREVENT leaded fuel from being put in the tank. Surely, if lsd was a problem for either the engine or the emissions systems, the filler hole on our trucks would have been changed in shape or size to only take an ulsd pump nozzle.

paulb87 - 10-3-2008 at 11:34 AM

Hook,
In response to :
Can you address the concerns of those who worry that , should they return to the US for warranty work, the dealer could void their warranty.

US and Canadian Consumer Law is pretty much alike on warranty related issues. The company must PROVE that the causation of damage was directly associated with, in this case, Mexican diesel.
If in doubt, tow your truck to the nearest US diesel station, fill it with good old ULSD, and then call your warranty folks!

Hook - 10-3-2008 at 03:49 PM

Sorry, Ted, I wont be able to help you on a test case.

I'm a happy driver of a 7.3 liter engine. My engine absolutely loves the high sulphur diesel. Also, well out of warranty.

Thank you for your opinions.

Any thoughts on the decreased lubricity of the ULSD?

[Edited on 10-3-2008 by Hook]

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