BajaNomad

Dawn Wilson Update

BrianBenson - 2-25-2004 at 01:19 PM

Does anyone have an update on Dawn Wilson? She was thrown in jail for having prescription drugs. Any update is aprreciated.

Bob H - 2-25-2004 at 01:49 PM

Brian,
You can keep up to date at this link.
Bob H :(

http://www.dawnwilson.com/

JESSE - 2-25-2004 at 02:12 PM

If you cant do the time, dont do the crime.

PERSONAL MESSAGE TO JESSE CHAVEZ

Edie H. - 2-25-2004 at 06:56 PM

Everyone here knows I don't post much but I can't allow you to post the kind of crap you just did about Dawn's situation! :fire:

People went to you early on last year to see if there was anything you could do for her....lawyer referrals...etc. and all you did was say "I can't get involved" but yet you have the balls to discredit her "situation" any time you get a chance. As a future cruiser to "your" country, it makes me wonder why I would be willing to take the same chances as Dawn did.....maybe because I believe that the majority of Mexico & Baja are beautiful places to visit with some of the most wonderful people you could ever expect to meet **********

******************************************************************

[Edited on 2-26-2004 by BajaNomad]

JESSE - 2-26-2004 at 02:39 PM

I understand she is your friend, but listen closely.

I am sick and tired of hearing how people get caught with guns, drugs, etc etc and suddenly just because they are americans they are "innocent", "they didnt know better", "they where framed", etc etc. FACT is, it is ILEGAL in Mexico ( just like in most places all over the world) to posess controlled substances ( in large quantities i might add) without a doctors prescription. Just like in your own country, here in Mexico you cant use ignorance of the laws as an excuse to avoid responsability for your actions, THAT IS FACT.

I understand that ther are many Americans that get caught in legitimate wrong doings here in Mexico, and i am all for supporting and helping those good folks that need assitance and dont deserve to be in those situations, but i have NO TEARS for those that clearly break the law, get caught, and then cry out loud that Mexicans are evil, that our law sytem sucks, that our Police officers are crooked, and on and on and on, and what is the only legitimate defense that they have for what they did? They are americans, and americans are innocent, they have to right? NOT!!! There are millions of americans that are welcomed to our nation each year, we appreciate them, i believe in giving them all the support and protections that we have, they are our neighboors, our friends, our brothers, and its very offensive to me to see how some play the " i am an american card" when they shouldnt, because theres legitimate folks out there that REALLY need help, really where treated unfairly, and this is definately not the case, and i know, i looked into it, i saw the court papers, i talked to high ranking friends in the Procuraduria, and i know what i am talking about.

Honest people don't get caught with hundreds of controlled substances pills.

FrankO - 2-26-2004 at 02:58 PM

Since you looked into the matter exactly how many hundreds? Shoot, two bottles of one of my scrips would be 120.

BrianBenson - 2-27-2004 at 10:00 AM

I understand it is a difficult situation however i am just wandering what the status. Is she still fighting it? Does she have hope? How long will she be in jail? Where is her husband Terry? etc. Thanks.

JESSE - 2-27-2004 at 08:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FrankO
Since you looked into the matter exactly how many hundreds? Shoot, two bottles of one of my scrips would be 120.


Plenty enough to get you or me in jail.

Story Being Discussed

academicanarchist - 2-27-2004 at 09:44 PM

I have not heard the story, and am curious what controlled substance this woman was caught with. I think there are too many Americans who go overseas with an arrogant attitude about the laws in other countries and a belief that as Americans they should be immune from the laws of other countries. The term "ugly American" was coined on the basis of the reality of a certain attitude. This is a belief that the U.S. government has fostered in the past. If this lady was caught with a controlled substance that violates Mexican law, then she should be prepared to pay the penalty.

[Edited on 2-28-2004 by academicanarchist]

Living Overseas

academicanarchist - 2-27-2004 at 09:59 PM

I lived in South America for a year a while back, and went knowing that I would be in a country with different laws, values, etc. I would add that I did not have problems with the police during my stay there, and did not flaunt my being American.

Wow AA

jrbaja - 2-27-2004 at 10:13 PM

yer awesome dude. And I was going to agree with Jesse. But, the original question is still unanswered. By anyone from here.
This is a tragic lesson and I hope that you people have learned not to bring back just a few illegal medications for your friends no matter who you think you are... Dawn has.

FrankO - 2-27-2004 at 11:02 PM

When I travel I keep my nose clean far more than I ever do at home.... even in different parts of this country.

Here's an A.P. article from a previous thread....

Stephanie Jackter - 2-28-2004 at 01:19 AM

I think she got screwed. Just remember, all you sanctimonious, holier than thou types - there but for the grace of god might go you or a loved one some day.

This is yet another case of corrupt cops asserting their power over a defenseless woman. And they even had the audacity to go clean out her bank account.

She was carrrying seizure meds, for Christ's sake! Not exactly a member of the Cali cartell. Give her a break.- Stephanie

Jesse

Skeet/Loreto - 2-28-2004 at 05:03 AM

Jesse: Your post was well taken by this Poster.
The acceptance of ones Responsibility in any cultural is something that has been neglected in the teaching of our children in both countries.
Living in Baja for so many years I have learned that people there as well as the States United suffer the same fate when violating the Laws of the Land.
It is just different in that we as Americans forget that in the present and the Past have done the same thing to many Mexicanos on our side of the Border.

I strongly beleive that Responsibility rests with each individual to "Exercise their on Free will and Accord".

That failure is one of the reasons that the States United has become a Nation divided.

If this women has been found guilty she must serve her time according to Law,just as the Mexicanos who are in the Jails here must serve their time.

The climate here in the States has changed to an all out attempt to evade that responsibility no matter .
People in Baja seem to change to an attitude of "Getting More out of americanos" since 911. maybe as a result of the slow down in Tourism and the intake of money prior to that Time.

I do know that there are "Good people" in both countries and we should all try to better understand each other instead of trying to always "Blame someone else for our on "Shortcomings"
It is my hope that all people being held in Jails will someday be released and return to their families with an attitude of being a Lawful, productive Human Being!

Skeet/Loreto

"IN God We Trust"

Excellent Post

jrbaja - 2-28-2004 at 08:06 AM

to Skeet. Stephanie, I think your sanctimony, holier, stick your nose in everyones business attitude shines through more than anyones. Take this as a lesson as to what can happen to gringos, Mexicans, or anyone who breaks the law. If this were Borneo, she quite possibly may have been put to death . That is the law there. And if you don't like it , don't go. Same here.
As far as them spending her money, what happens when they bust a drug dealer in the U.S.? They take the money, cars, houses, and anything else they can get their hands on. What's the difference ?

Are you kidding, JR? The difference is THE LAW.

Stephanie Jackter - 2-28-2004 at 11:21 AM

If you're going to argue that she should spend 7 years in jail for carrying drugs she shouldn't have, which she bought LEGALLY from a Mexican pharmacy, then you can't make a comparison to Borneo, where she wouldn't have been sold the drugs with state permission to begin with! Funny how you areen't a criminal until you've finished paying the pharmacist.

You also can't say that the cops who spent her money were acting within the law of the land, so there's no excuse for them whatsoever, unless you're into licking their boots (the usual from you), while you condemn a woman whose interchange with them began with one of the sleeze bags whistling at her. Doesn't that give you the creeps at all????

As far as your post, Skeet, I think it says somewhere in that Bible you hold so dear, that two wrongs don't make a right. Because the U.S. screws Mexicans that come here, and we do in many ways, doesn't mean that Mexico should be encouraged to screw Americans as well with our communal blessing.

If this woman had gotten caught with pot or coke, I would be just as hard line as any of you, as the rule of law would be clear, but I bet you won't find one other soul in the prison she's in or any other prison in Mexico who got busted for carrying a three month supply of anti seizure meds. Will ya?

This woman's whole life will be ruined by one small mis-step and instead of having any pity for her situation, you put your jack boots on and start kickin'. What a shame. - Stephanie

BrianBenson - 2-28-2004 at 11:35 AM

I didn't mean to start a war with my orginal post, all I want is an update. The website doesn't provide one. Any update on Dawn is greatly appreciated.

David K - 2-28-2004 at 09:30 PM

Stephanie... what do you mean by "the U.S. screws Mexicans"?

They sure must like getting screwed here, because so many of them are flooding north that we can't build walls big enough to stop them!

Yah, I guess getting paid in ONE DAY (here) what takes a week to earn there is really geting screwed!!!

That free medical aid, and instant citizenship for their babies is really screwing them bad, yah right.

My own 'amigo' flys Aero Mexico 3,000 miles to work with me digging pipe ditches and laying sod. He is away from his family months or years at a time to stay and work here... Is it because we 'screw him'? I think not!
He, and the millions of others come here because they WANT TO.

WHY??? Because it is MEXICO that is screwing him and his countrymen from having conditions that foster growth, free enterprise, and a growing economy (capitalism) so that they may work and live in the same area!!! I tell my amigo all the time that I wish Mexico would become as free and prosperous as America so that I could travel to his country to work and live! If I did, I sure wouldn't be saying Mexico was screwing me!!!!

I think I will stop before pointing out how typically liberal it is to blame America, when through our prosperity, millions of dollars are sent back to all those families in Mexico that would otherwise go hungry.

I do agree with Stephanie on the subject/ topic of this thread, however. The poor lady was arrested for trying to help a friend by picking up a perscription... It is disgraceful for a civilized country to treat anybody with such lack of compassion. There is the 'letter of the law' and then there is the 'spirit of the law'... How can she legally buy the perscription, but not carry it ouside the pharmacy? The police just needed a new gringa toy? Why are the police in Tijuana so different from the otherwise beautiful people of Mexico?

[Edited on 2-29-2004 by David K]

Mexicans who are here illegally often get screwed by the government.

Stephanie Jackter - 2-28-2004 at 10:13 PM

They can be held in detention for YEARS at a time with no constitutional rights granted to them for their defense, and then deported.

That is not to speak of the way that companies take advantage of their illegal status with the tacit approval of the govt. by paying them low wages. There was even a case in front of the supreme court where a relative of an illegal worker took advantage of his good work for years and then when he complained his wages weren't high enough, the uncle turned him in to get him deported. That kind of thing happens all the time. Our govt. takes a stand against illegal aliens, but doesn't do a damned thing to prosecute those who hire and benefit directly from their cheap labor for their illegal actions.

Virtually every time I've ever gotten into a conversation with a Mexican along the lines of "your govt. treats aliens worse than my govt.", the Mexican's stories of abuses will win. I've learned the hard way to no longer enter those conversations with that stance.

Mexican labor is highly desired in this country and Mexicans highly desire to do the work, but make no mistake about it. They are treated officially and unofficially as an underclass.

Last, but not least, yes, we are in full agreement that the spirit of the law was woefully misappropriated in this case.

.....And Brian, I think the bottom line is there is no update right now. If there was one, I'm sure her family would post it on the web site. Her appeals have been exhausted and she is being left to rot in jail. But I'm glad you care enough to ask. Her attorney's name and number in Tijuana are on the website Bob posted, but that looks like the only lead available as the message board function of that site is down.- Stephanie

Thank you Stephanie......

Bedman - 2-29-2004 at 01:40 AM

for taking the time to fight the Good fight. I whole heartedly agree that Ms. Wilsons' plight is a travesty of the judicial system in Mexico.

I don't always agree with you but, I am glad you took the reins on this one.

Jesse, just exactly What did you see re: the "illegal drugs" she was carrying?

Jesse, does this mean that I can't take my American medications to Mexico? A one month supply of 8 different prescription medications would entail 270 pills.


BEDMAN

Steph.

Skeet/Loreto - 2-29-2004 at 06:08 AM

Your post concerning the plight of Mexicanos and Americanos in the States United and Baja is a Labor that I undertake each time there is an opportunity to do so!
I fell in love with the Mexican people many years ago while living in Loreto.I have been successful in explaining to my Mexicano friends about the Americano cultural.I know from actions that I have been respected for my attempts.

In the States it is more difficult as there is more people to try to explain Mexicanos to my friends here.I am often talked about as being a"Mexicano Lover" in that I tell many people the good qualities of Baja and its People.
There is much resentment here as in Mexicano brought on by our past as well as the past and actions of both sides.

I do not engage in the "Blame,Shame, and Flame "manner in my attempts to help anyone.in understanding.

Exception:When i blame the Liberals of creating many of the problems with our
Children and their failure to "Accept Responsibility" for their acts.

The past is dead and gone!Live and work today to beter the lives of all of us,think about the future and try to influence childen in a manner that will help them understand that we are not perfect.

Since getting back to a better life with Christ, I have finally figured to do all I can to help all People to be Kind to each. other. that is that my purpose in Life

Read that book,!If it can change me it can change you

Skeet/Loreto

"In God we Trust".

Grover

Skeet/Loreto - 2-29-2004 at 06:29 AM

Do you have any idea how we would be if we were all perfect?
It seems as if there is an underlying bias against any one that makes money.
I have been blessed with a chance to benifit from my LaborsI have been very poor and through hard Work and much effort I have been able to take care of my self without depending on the govt. or someone else to take care of me in my old age.
Now I know that it has been Gods Plan for me.I have recently discovered that my Purpose in Life is to help those in need.
I will use all my talents to do so from now until this ole body wears out.

No more wasting my time trying to convince anyone through "Words"
Actions are better than words and you cannot see them on a forum!

Skeet/Loreto

"In God we Trust"

Thanks for the support, Bedman.

Stephanie Jackter - 2-29-2004 at 11:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bedman
for taking the time to fight the Good fight. I whole heartedly agree that Ms. Wilsons' plight is a travesty of the judicial system in Mexico.

I don't always agree with you but, I am glad you took the reins on this one.

Jesse, just exactly What did you see re: the "illegal drugs" she was carrying?

Jesse, does this mean that I can't take my American medications to Mexico? A one month supply of 8 different prescription medications would entail 270 pills.


BEDMAN


I just look at this as a no-brainer and am shocked by the attitudes I see here. I go to Nogales and buy emphasyma drugs for a friend that wouldn't be able to afford to eat and get her meds if I didn't. I am encouraged to do that by a pharmacy on every corner in cut-throat competition with each other.

The fact that a cop could pick me up and I or any other retiree they wanted to tare into could face the same insanity that Dawn Wilson has been put through makes me angry enough by itself. But to listen to all these other people making her out to be a criminal just burns me up. The time honored tradition of blaming the victim continues.....If it happened today, I bet a few of the gang around here would say Jesus Christ himself deserved to be crucified! - Stephanie

Enormo - 3-1-2004 at 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
I do not engage in the "Blame,Shame, and Flame "manner in my attempts to help anyone.in understanding.

Exception:When i blame the Liberals of creating many of the problems with our
Children and their failure to "Accept Responsibility" for their acts.


how big of you

JESSE - 3-1-2004 at 01:48 PM

For all of you that think that Mexico has unfair penalties you are wrong, all nations have laws and pealties that are considered unfair by others, for example, did you know that if you get caught growing 99 plants of pot in the U.S. you spend perhaps only a few months in Jail, but if you get caugh with 100, mandatory minimum federal laws kick in, and you HAVE to spend a mandatory 15 YEARS!! for 1 more plant!!! theres plenty of more examples, i for one find it completely inhuman how police in the U.S. are allowed to shoot someone like a dog if you treaten them with a stick, or a rock, something you almost never see in Mexico, do i think its unfair? yes, would i treaten a cop in the U.S. with a rock or even a nail clipper? HELL NO.

A good friend of mine is doing 10 to 20 years for getting caught with cristal meth at the border, he was running an errand for a friend, he was using the other persons car, he DID NOT know he was driving a loaded car, the guy was an A student at the University and now he is doing time, did the U.S. bother to investigate? no. did they care that he was a good citizen going to college and never in trouble? no. did they take into account the letters from school, from is priest, from his friends? no.

These situations happen in both sides of the border, and both law systems are just as unfair and cruel as they can get.

Enormo - 3-1-2004 at 02:44 PM

It's not the laws/penalties in mexico that are unfair it's the lack of a single law... 'innocent until proven guilty'.

Napoleanic law empowers those in power to abuse the rights of the 'have nots.' This is not to say that everyone who is in power is corrupt in Mexico (or any of the other of the 'developing countries' that make up the majority of our planet).

However, where there are human beings there will be abuse of power. Mexico is no exception. And the insinuation of guilt until innocence is proven is simply damning to those who, for whatever reason, are considered enemies of the state. (and by state I mean the whole government, a branch of government, a group within a government, a judge, a cop... whomever is granted power). And, no, I am not a left wing conspiricy theorist.

And from everything I've read this woman was neither a drug abuser, nor an addict, nor a trafficker. She was just carrying her prescriptions.

This begs the question, 'Could there have been any other motive for her encarceration." Well, in a land where there is such disparity between the haves and have nots and you are guilty until proven innocent, you have to wonder.

[Edited on 3-1-2004 by Enormo]

Enormo - 3-1-2004 at 03:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
For all of you that think that Mexico has unfair penalties you are wrong, all nations have laws and pealties that are considered unfair by others, for example, did you know that if you get caught growing 99 plants of pot in the U.S. you spend perhaps only a few months in Jail, but if you get caugh with 100, mandatory minimum federal laws kick in, and you HAVE to spend a mandatory 15 YEARS!! for 1 more plant!!! theres plenty of more examples, i for one find it completely inhuman how police in the U.S. are allowed to shoot someone like a dog if you treaten them with a stick, or a rock, something you almost never see in Mexico, do i think its unfair? yes, would i treaten a cop in the U.S. with a rock or even a nail clipper? HELL NO.

A good friend of mine is doing 10 to 20 years for getting caught with cristal meth at the border, he was running an errand for a friend, he was using the other persons car, he DID NOT know he was driving a loaded car, the guy was an A student at the University and now he is doing time, did the U.S. bother to investigate? no. did they care that he was a good citizen going to college and never in trouble? no. did they take into account the letters from school, from is priest, from his friends? no.

These situations happen in both sides of the border, and both law systems are just as unfair and cruel as they can get.


While possibly quite true your examples are a bit simplistic and anecdotal. Are you really willing to threaten a Mexican police officer's life without expecting them to protect themselves with lethal force? Sounds rather exagerated to me.

I'm not familiar with the nuts and bolts workings of the Mexican legal system so I can't comment specifically on it but I would hardly call the U.S. legal system "unfair" and "cruel." It's a system that has a relatively rigorous sets of checks and balances that affords the defendants numerous rights that some even consider too lenient. Not to mention the numerous laws and organizations set up specifically to insure the absence of cruel and unfair treatment.

I'm not saying it's perfect(after all the more money you have the better legal counsel you can hire... etc.) but the U.S. legal system is often seen by those around the world as a blueprint for a fair and mature legal system.

And I'm not putting down Mexico's legal system either. It's just that your argument seems to be askew for the thread's topic. Getting caught growing pot plants and crossing the border with crystal meth seems to be a different issue than getting caught with prescription medication.

[Edited on 3-1-2004 by Enormo]

[Edited on 3-1-2004 by Enormo]

Nikon - 3-1-2004 at 04:35 PM

Not much to add to Enormo's points, except to say it's a well established fact of life here that you don't use an object to threaten a police officer. So if you do, it's tantamount to suicide, which is what's often intended by the perp. I've never heard our justice system described as cruel before. But there was that beating of the immigrantes by the freeway, maybe that's what gave you that impression? Is there a MCLU? Pretty funny, isn't it?

JESSE - 3-1-2004 at 09:27 PM

I have actually gotten into fights with Mexican cops during my youth and was never treatened with a gun, for all you that dont know it, a Mexican cop will go to jail if he shoots someone that did not shoot first, in fact, it is rare to hear that a Mexican cop killed someone without being shot at first.

FrankO - 3-1-2004 at 10:32 PM

This certainly has morphed from an/inquiry/concern for Dawn Wilson to a mini debate over opposing justice systems. Yes, our system is flawed, but the adversarial judicial system where innocence is presumptive certainly is superior to napoleanic law. I have no problem w/cops shooting an attacker, just one less scumbag to flock w/me and my family.

[Edited on 3-2-2004 by FrankO]

Enormo - 3-2-2004 at 01:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
I have actually gotten into fights with Mexican cops during my youth and was never treatened with a gun, for all you that dont know it, a Mexican cop will go to jail if he shoots someone that did not shoot first, in fact, it is rare to hear that a Mexican cop killed someone without being shot at first.


and I have friends who have gotten into fights with cops here... and had their ass handed to them... but fights none the less... once again interesting yet anecdotal

Skeet/Loreto - 3-2-2004 at 06:29 AM

Grover: They do not all think that it is all a sham~~~~.
You are using a Large Paint brush as I have done in my past posts with my comments of the Lefty's>
Skeet./Loreto

"In God we Trust"

Enormo - 3-2-2004 at 10:44 AM

Actually Jesse, you do have a point about San Diego police. About ten years back or more(as I remember it) San Diego led the nation in police 'victim' mortality rate.

I'm not sure what that means... maybe they were just better shots.

Either way there's not much reason to resist police in the states... unless your looking for trouble.

Enormo - 3-2-2004 at 10:59 AM

Another thought Jesse: Grover's post just above, that would be the U.S. version of corruption. It's institutionalized. The victims are rarely a single person acutely persicuted but rather populations of those who belong to our system(not to say that there aren't individual instances of injustice in this country). Lobbies, beurocrats, politicians, corporate interests and even public interest groups all exploiting laws, regulations and whatever political leverage they may have. It's the American Way!

Pescador - 3-2-2004 at 06:57 PM

Jesse, I find the comments interesting, but the fact that really disturbs me is that Americans and Canadians come to Mexico and seem to expect that the laws there are the same as at home. Well they are not. If you want the laws like they are at home then stay home. The old saying as When in Rome do as the Romans seems so appropriate. Only when I was in College did I spend lots of nights talking about how things should be. Now that I am a little older I spend time trying to figure out how things really are and learning how to act accordingly. Mexico attracts a lot of us for the simplicity and the more relaxed way of life and then we want to have philosophical discussions about how things should be. I'll bet the law enforcement and the judges are really listening.

Very mature *****.

jrbaja - 3-4-2004 at 03:25 PM

**************************
I don't have much time fer chicken kicken today as I am listening to some other gringo piece talking about their problems getting work done here in Los Barriles. Typical!
If yall don't like what goes on here, including your whining about everything that is Mexico, why don't you just stay home in your perfect environments.
And that includes coming here to buy your drugs at a discount.
I guess they are not always that great a deal are they. You characters should be smarter than that. Where'd ya go to school anyway? america? Hypocrites!
Especialy you obnoxious, know it all gringo types ******.

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by BajaNomad]

Me No - 3-4-2004 at 04:11 PM

JR, Why don't you tell us how you really feel. :lol:

Here's a true story from last weekend SF 250. We go out to the remote location, Morelia Junction, where we are to pit the 100x bike. We do our pit duties, and then head up a small hill, that has the best vantage point, to see the cars come through. A group of gringos have been up there since early mourning, and were all smiles. Then a parade of Mexicans show up who had watched the cars at the start and had come out to see them again. You should have heard this one gringo lady, " I hope they don't come up here", "they do nothing but litter", "I spent 15 minutes cleaning up trash when I got here and will go crazy if they come back up here and through their trash around". I explain that it is there country, and they do things different here, and to expect to be standing shoulder to shoulder with them any minute. Well she circled her chairs and tried to form a barracade to keep them out of her space. So when the cars arrived and I saw her standing shoulder to shoulder with some of them that were drinking beer, I just had to laugh, wishing JR was there to set her straight.

As far as Dawn Wilson, yea It stinks, but she made many blunders herself. Pleading guilty was probably the biggest one. Carrying too many drugs the next, and I'm willing to bet, when she originally got stopped she fit the stereotypical american attitude.

As for me, I tread lightly in foreign countries. If ever I encounter authorities, piety is the rule.

Enormo - 3-4-2004 at 05:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jrbaja
Hypocrites!
Especialy you obnoxious, know it all gringo types *****.


Yeah! WAY more obnoxious than you know it all Mexicano types.

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by BajaNomad]

Enormo - 3-4-2004 at 10:11 PM

Hey, where did Stephanie go and who's *****?

Seriously, though, I still don't know why some people are peeed at her. Seems to me she was just pointing out the highly questionable circumstances around this girls arrest. There aren't any gringo apoligists in this room are there?

elgatoloco - 3-4-2004 at 10:16 PM

It is unfortunate that she was not up to speed on the local laws on drug possesion. Prescripted or otherwise.

It sucks big time that the cops had to foul up good police work by maxing out her ATM card while she was in custody. :fire:

Gato, Stating that this could have been good police work is denying reality.

Stephanie Jackter - 3-5-2004 at 09:57 PM

It started off with them passing a pedestrian female in a truck and whistling at her and escalated to searching her at the side of the road with no provocation from her to be stopped in the first place. Her big crime was being an American female walking alone.

The fact that they stole her money afterward is just another good indicator that they were corrupt to begin with.

Imagine if this law were enforced widely in Mexico. It would shut down half the pharmacies in the country would shut down in a week.

This enforcement was a total red herring and this woman just had one unlucky day from Hell that could ruin the whole rest of her life, victimized by those who should have been protecting her.

If you see any sign even of potentially good police work here, you must have those rosey colored glasses up real close to your eyes. - Stephanie

elgatoloco - 3-6-2004 at 12:55 AM

Steph

I am still awaiting a 'smily' that shows toungue planted FIRMLY in cheek.

This ain't my first row-d--o.

I am nothing if not a realist.

What happened to Ms. Wilson is a damn shame. The worst case of bad timing imaginable.

The campo in Baja Norte where my family's house has been for the last 43 years has had a continuing problem with break-ins the last 3-4 years by the local druggies. Perps have been caught red-handed with property from the gringos casa and the cops do NOTHING.

I love Mexico and it's people and I will continue to travel all over Baja and the mainland. I hope that my actions never put me at odds with the authorities because I too would probably come out on the short end of the stick.

I have been pulled over by the police 6 times in the last 8 years driving in Baja (in the prior 22 years,never).Once in Rosarito for running a red light that was actually not operating and the desk sargeant let me go, all very professional. Once in La Paz for going the wrong way down a one way street. The officer could have written me up for two violations, dis obeying the signage and wrong way driving. He chose to write me up for one only and I paid the fine $11.60 US at the station downtown and then got my driver's license back. The other four times I have been pulled over I challenged the voracity of the (false) claims of violations and each time I was sent on my way and told to 'drive safely'.

It is a shame that the news does not print the stories involving the good cops and only the corrupt ones.:saint:

Sorry. Good news is simply not news. That's life.

Stephanie Jackter - 3-6-2004 at 01:33 AM

Thanks for clarifying your stance that the Dawn Wilson case stinks.

If you've read my past posts, you know that I adore all things BCS. But I do admit, I'm very suspicious of what can happen to me as a gringa in BC. I've heard too many rotten stories of tourists getting beat with pipes or raped or God knows what to feel safe as an American female without connections running around northern Baja.

I know that even with the possibilities of negative things happening, the odds are good that nothing so bad will, but I'm quite happy to improve my odds by staying one state south where, there are much fewer Americans and not coincidentally, much less animosity and violence toward the ones that are there.

I used to go to Mexico City regularly in my youth. When my father was alive, he was an overseas executive there and had a ton of connections. Those connections were so important that I felt I could get out of most scrapes with the help of him and his friends, and actually did get out of couple that way.

Since his death, though, I haven't gone to Mexico City once. It is now a crap shoot for me to go there. I would be just another tourist who could be easily victimized with no recourse against a system that might railroad me for extortion or out of anger toward Americans.

I feel that one has to consider those same potential outcomes in northern Baja more and more. -

Herb - 3-6-2004 at 08:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Stephanie Jackter
Thanks for clarifying your stance that the Dawn Wilson case stinks.

If you've read my past posts, you know that I adore all things BCS. But I do admit, I'm very suspicious of what can happen to me as a gringa in BC. I've heard too many rotten stories of tourists getting beat with pipes or raped or God knows what to feel safe as an American female without connections running around northern Baja.


I think we tend to get so caught up in the sensationalism of individual stories that we really don't see the issue objectively. The fact is that you are far more likely to be beaten with pipes or raped (or even shot) as a Gringa walking the streets in most places in the US than nearly any place in BC.

There are so many serial rapists running around LA county right now that they are not even considered front page news until they are actually caught. One just struck again within 2 blocks of my home and this is a "nice" neighborhood.

To me a perp is a perp whether he is wearing a uniform or not and there's a lot more of them in my neck of the woods than norhtern Baja...

Just my 2 cents...

It is all very much in what you're used to.

Stephanie Jackter - 3-6-2004 at 10:08 AM

I remember that after having lived in La Paz for a year and a half, I was actually a little fearful of returning to Tucson. The only contact I had at that point with Tucson was reading about a murder or so every couple of days on the internet news. At the time I lived in La Paz, there were only a couple of murders in a year or so.

Having said that, I still believe strongly that my travelling to Tijuana or Mexico City as a white, blue eyed, female tourist- and god forbid, if I were young and cute again - carries more danger of running into problems than any trip I might make to Los Angeles. In Los Angeles the pool of targets for that rapist is way larger than the pool of American looking targets in Tijuana and Mexico City.

I agree that on the whole, there is a general perception in America that there is much more corruption in Mexico in general than there is. And, of course, I wouldn't walk the streets at night in Newark either. But there are certain places in Mexico that I don't care to tempt fate, because I know I would fall into a target victimization population. Why go some place as a tourist where you are not likely to have your security relatively assured? It just doesn't make sense. Simple as that. - Stephanie

You are right, it is very much what you are used to.

Herb - 3-8-2004 at 12:33 AM

It is also a matter of how much risk you are willing to assume and what the payoff is. I myself avoid Tijuana like the plague. Just not enough that is uniquely pleasing to me there to be worth any potential hassles. However, having lived in both the DF (Mexico City) and Los Angeles, I much prefer the former and believe it to be safer. I think most gringos, feel more comfortable about being able to spot where a potential threat may come from here in LA, though.

Of course real hard statistical analysis suggests that, as individuals, we are unlikely to become victims of crime in any area. It's just that some areas are riskier than others, but the odds are in your favor overall in most places. (I'm not aware of too many places where more than 50% of visitors are attacked)

My job requires me to visit Compton once or twice a week and I've never had a problem. I just recently narrowly missed being caught in the crossfire of a shooting in Redondo Beach, though. So, I just go anywhere I believe there is something of interest to me and let whatever happens, happen. One way or another, life is short and I intend to enjoy it to the fullest!

I do understand your point, Herb.

Stephanie Jackter - 3-8-2004 at 01:31 AM

But I too, have lived in Mexico City. It was for a period, all told, of about a year and a half during a number of visits in my teens. I, as a young, attractive American woman, definitely stood out. During the time I was there, I was violently grabbed, but manage to get away from, a man in Chapultepec park. I had my backback shredded with a razor blade on the bus by a man trying to steal my wallet, I had my passport and money stolen on another occasion on a bus, and I was molested on a metro car that was packed so tight with people that there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it.

I've also got an old college buddy from Bakersfield. She still has friends in Puebla from when we went to the Universidad de Las Americas. She used to go the quickest way, through Mexico City, to get there each summer. A couple of years ago she started going all the way across to Texas and down the east coast of Mexico just to avoid Mexico City, as every time she got on the periferico, she would get pulled over and have to lay $50 to $100 on a cop to get out of some trumped up infraction.

Tourists, and especially female tourists, know where they feel welcomed and where they do not. I liked the cosmopolitan feel of Mexico City, but what I, as a woman, would have had to go through to keep living there was not worth the trade.

I think being a man gives you a certain immunity wherever you go that you might well take for granted. Females are much more at risk for victimization- as Dawn Wilson definitely was- and we probably are more likely to want to be in the safest place because of all the possibilities of what can befall us.

I didn't just fall of the turnip truck either. I lived for 12 years in the worst neighborhood in Tucson. But all the more reason to recognize the HUGE difference between levels of tourist safety in La Paz and those in Tijuana.

By the way......... I just heard an Amnesty International report that states that one in three women worldwide are physically assaulted in their lifetimes, and as we were discussing earlier, usually at the hands of a loved one. They did not make a distinction between the so called "developed" countries and those that are not.

Herb - 3-8-2004 at 02:22 AM

Alright Stephanie, I concede that I cannot begin to truly know what the experience is like for a female in spite of my photographed experience of getting in touch with my feminine side in another thread. ;)

The sad part, though, is how much of what you and your friend have experienced is the result of international cultural ignorance which is prevalent on both sides of the border. It has been my experience that many men in Mexico?s urban areas tend to be more restrained about doing "forward" things with strange women except when it comes to "gringas" whom TV and movies (and college students on spring break) have convinced them are wild women who are willing to do "almost anything."

I experienced this many times while living in the DF as a college student. My Mexican friends would date American students and expect them to be "freaks" behind closed doors. Heck, I even dated a Mexican woman who became frustrated because I was being a "gentleman". It was not what she expected from a gringo man, and her desires were not what I expected from a Mexicana and I was REALLY terrified of what her brother (a friend of mine) might do to me if I acted any differently.

(He later explained to me one night when we had both had too much tequila that, "Ella coje como coneja, y tu no la hiciste? Que te pasa, buey?")

Yep, those persnikity stereotypes that screw us all up..

Stephanie Jackter - 3-8-2004 at 12:11 PM

Forgot to tell you, that photo brings out the secret inner lesbian in me. I bet you're a fun guy at parties! - Stephanie