BajaNomad

Govt Issued Discount Card for Seniors?

bajabound2005 - 7-21-2007 at 10:34 AM

DIF issues a card to seniors entitling them to discounts on certain things -- bus fares, drivers license fees, car registration fees. We are looking to find out more about the card. What we "think" we know is you must apply in person at a DIF office and not all DIF offices issue them (there is a DIF office in Maneadero but you have to get the card in Ensenada). You must have an FM3 or better and proof of residence (electric bill, phone bill). You either have to be at least 60 or 65, not sure which. The card may be called INSEN or INAM; there may have been a name change so I'm not sure which one is current or correct.

Any Nomads have this card? What exactly can you get a discount on? Any further info is much appreciated.

Mexican Welfare ?

MrBillM - 7-21-2007 at 10:43 AM

Let me begin by saying I am sincere and not trying to start an argument when I say this, but:

Wouldn't you find it unseemingly, as a far more financially secure foreigner, making use of a Mexican-Government subsidized program to assist Native Seniors ? It seems to me that this would be an example of the traits that make one think "Ugly American". Sort of like all the Americanos years ago who flooded across the border in Tijuana and elsewhere to buy (subsidized) Mexican Dairy products when they spiked in the U.S.

bajamigo - 7-21-2007 at 10:56 AM

You're so right. I feel like an ugly american every time I gas up.

toneart - 7-21-2007 at 11:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
Let me begin by saying I am sincere and not trying to start an argument when I say this, but:

Wouldn't you find it unseemingly, as a far more financially secure foreigner, making use of a Mexican-Government subsidized program to assist Native Seniors ? It seems to me that this would be an example of the traits that make one think "Ugly American". Sort of like all the Americanos years ago who flooded across the border in Tijuana and elsewhere to buy (subsidized) Mexican Dairy products when they spiked in the U.S.


I would agree with your reasoning here with this exception: Not all North Americans are living La Vida Rica in Mexico. Some are there because the cost of living in Mexico is cheaper and many people cannot hang on in the U.S. Also, many seniors are on fixed incomes. So, for them....why not take advantage of the discount card? It is legal and it is offered by a government that has compassion, at least in this case.

For me, the word "welfare" does not hold the same stigma as it does for some. It is a safety net for those in need. Where I agree with Sr. BillM is that the offer should not be abused by those who aren't living at the poverty level.

DENNIS - 7-21-2007 at 11:55 AM

Toneart ----

Your reasoning may be bound to the realm of philosophy if what Magda told Hose A is accurate, that it's just for Mexican citizens.

toneart - 7-21-2007 at 12:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Toneart ----

Your reasoning may be bound to the realm of philosophy if what Magda told Hose A is accurate, that it's just for Mexican citizens.


Well, Comitan has just burst that bubble, but Dennis, you are quite correct; my reasoning is bound by the philosophical constraints of my own skull.:spingrin: Occasionally stuff does leach through.......in and out.

bajalou - 7-21-2007 at 12:29 PM

This was discussed about a year ago, and it was stated that a citizen or a non-citizen with FM2 - not FM3 - was eligible.

edinnopolo - 7-21-2007 at 01:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hose A
As per Magda........
The INSEN card is issued to Mexican citizens only at age 60.
This intitles them to ride the micro for 3 pesos. ABC for half price.
30% discount on water.
Discount on food purchase at certain stores.
They receive $1000 pesos a month from the government to live on.


I've had the card since 2000.
No idea who Magda is, but almost none of the above is true. They never asked me for any FM, but last year some of te people here in Loreto that applied, were told that you needed a FM2 to qualify. Tried the discount on the busfare and was denied in La Paz. Never heard of the 1000 peso government dole. Get 10% discount on your meds in a regular Farmacia. Issste will not honor it, claim their goods are already subsidized. Only advantage is the half off of your property taxes( and they ham and haw about that) and half off your water bill. Need to bring copy with you every time you pay.

bajabound2005 - 7-21-2007 at 01:23 PM

This is what we got from FRAO -

"The Mexican Instituto Nacional de la Senectud issues this discount card in town through their representative at DIF. Dif building is located next to city hall. Their telephone number is 612-6082, 612-6735, 612-6077 hours 9 -3 .

You need to go there and present proof of legal status in the country, proof of residency, plus pictures and valid ID. There could be a language problem, so I would suggest taking someone who speaks spanish.

Thank you for contacting FRAO"

Foreign Residents Affairs / Sister Cities World Program / Rosarito

Some of our neighbors here have this card and they are American citizens residing in Mexico legally. They all had to show their FM3s to get the card.

beachbum1A - 7-21-2007 at 01:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hose A

I went next door and asked a 75 year old Mexican woman and she related the same story.


And here I thought you didn't speak Spanish. Where in the world did I get that idea from? Oh well..............

DENNIS - 7-21-2007 at 01:53 PM

I don't understand why expats who have the financial qualifications to live here are looking for cheap bus rides anyway. I suppose it's for the same reason we can't pass up a garage sale.

DENNIS - 7-21-2007 at 02:01 PM

Yeah ..... It's hard to avoid English in Ensenada, especially with three [ or more ] universitys in town.

Russ - 7-21-2007 at 02:42 PM

Three of my friend have/had the "Old Folks" card and used them for property taxes and drugs. But as of Jan. 1 2007 they were told that ONLY Mexican citizens qualified.

Bravo!

Dave - 7-21-2007 at 02:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
I don't understand why expats who have the financial qualifications to live here are looking for cheap bus rides anyway.

edinnopolo - 7-21-2007 at 03:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hose A

.

Be very careful who you call a lier on this board.


Hey " Super Moderator " are you threatening me:?:
Never called anyone a liar ( proper spelling btw. ), just related the facts of my card use experiences..No busfare discount, no groceries discount here in Loreto anywhere, only property taxes and waterbill discounts. 50 %. And since we buy all our meds at the Issste store, no discount there.

Al G - 7-21-2007 at 03:17 PM

It never ceases to amaze me at the people who want something for nothing...and are willing prostitute thier manhood...how low do you really go:lol::lol::lol:

DENNIS - 7-21-2007 at 04:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan

I never pass up a garage sale!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Nor do I.

flyfishinPam - 7-21-2007 at 05:10 PM

I agree with Mr Bill, Dennis and Dave, never thought I'd say that ever :lol:

DENNIS - 7-21-2007 at 05:19 PM

Well, thank you Pam.

comitan - 7-21-2007 at 05:24 PM

Have fun children.

DENNIS - 7-21-2007 at 05:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
Have fun children.

No, no..........I meant it.

bajabound2005 - 7-21-2007 at 09:25 PM

Okay, everyone keep their pants on. Beachbum1A and bajamigo are going to go into Ensenada and see if they can get this card and what exactly it will get them. I did read somewhere you DO get a discount on airfare.

CaboRon - 7-21-2007 at 11:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabound2005
Okay, everyone keep their pants on. Beachbum1A and bajamigo are going to go into Ensenada and see if they can get this card and what exactly it will get them. I did read somewhere you DO get a discount on airfare.


Keep us posted ... Thanks CaboRon

HEY BILL!

bancoduo - 7-22-2007 at 09:46 AM

Will you be getting your "fourth age card" anytime soon.:lol::lol::lol:

[Edited on 7-22-2007 by bancoduo]

DENNIS - 7-22-2007 at 01:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaeng
"the third age"

Interesting reference, thanks. The term has an ancient, Aztec / Mixtec feel to it.

rpleger - 7-22-2007 at 01:34 PM

I got mine in St. Rosalia in 2004.
Needed an fm2 and had to be 65 years.

I used it for 50% discount on a Bus ride TJ to Mulege.
I understand it is good for a discount on Airlines, seats available.
Water bills, some hotel bills in La Paz.
Other stuff also.

Works for me.

[Edited on 7-22-2007 by rpleger]

bajabound2005 - 8-13-2007 at 05:00 PM

Ok, here's the report. Beachbum1A and Bajamigo successfully obtained their discount cards today in Ensenada. This was, of course, after dining at Marco Antonio's for his best-ever fish tacos. Finding the office was much harder than getting the card!

The cards are issued at the INSEN office, now known as INAPAM, a division of DIF. The age requirement is at least 60 years of age. You must be a Mexican citizen or residing in the country legally. They had to present copies of their FM3s or FM2s, the page that shows your date of birth. Also required was a foto infantil (a photograph 2.5 cm high and 2 cm wide which can be made up via your own computer, and they only need one) They asked for an emergency contact in case of an accident, whether or not you worked, and your local address. It took the lovely woman all of 5 minutes to type up the application (yes, on a typewriter!) and the ID card itself. She affixed the photo to the card. They signed the application and the card. El fin.

Then we came home and researched what INAPAM was all about. Basically, it's about taking care of our senior citizens as they deserve respect and have a great deal to offer society. There are free health services (including health education), computer classes, art classes, senior centers, etc. Only problem is, most of these services are currently only available in the greater Mexico City area...a complete listing of the available services can be seen here.

http://www.inapam.gob.mx/DirecINAPAM07.pdf

It shows a 5% discount at Gigante markets amongst other things.

The benefits of the card are not much different than the benefits offered by a number of merchants in the USA to senior citizens to encourange them shopping at their stores.

[Edited on 8-14-2007 by bajabound2005]

beachbum1A - 8-13-2007 at 06:37 PM

Bajabound2005 is telling it like it is! Quick and painless except a trifle difficult to locate as it's in what appears to be a residential area and bajaamigo took us in the back way with the directions we had. It will be interesting to see what discounts the cards entitle us to after we've had them for awhile. Thanks guys for a nice outing today! The atune tacos were really good!

Osprey - 8-13-2007 at 07:11 PM

Al G, you'll be similarly amazed how your particular manhood slips away when you engage in homophobic rants -- you must revere nothing, not those who struggle, not the aged, the underpriveledged. Do you suppose all those oldsters all over the world are worthless, gender suspect weaklings seeking "something for nothing"? Step off, rethink what your wrote or be thought a fool.

CaboRon - 8-13-2007 at 07:32 PM

valuable information, thank you. I imagine there must be offices in LaPaz and CSL, does anyone know where they are ?

- CaboRon

DENNIS - 8-13-2007 at 07:33 PM

Osprey...........
Can't help but feel that your reference to Al's "rant" was misplaced. He wasn't referring to those in need of services put in place for the needy. He was referring to those who take advantage of a program merely because they have the years to qualify. How can that be considered irreverent?

Bruce R Leech - 8-13-2007 at 08:06 PM

people are not supposed to come here from the USA and be a burden on the welfare system. that is why you must show that you are financially solvent when you apply to live here. If I had a card I would be to embraced to use it .

leave that money for the poor people that relay need it

Osprey - 8-13-2007 at 08:14 PM

Dennis, you gonna explain to me what other posters mean? You're gonna have a lot of work to do. All-inclusive, broad-brush, mean spirited nonsense will get attention every time on this board.

bajabound2005 - 8-13-2007 at 08:15 PM

Bruce R Leech: the point of my post was that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WELFARE SYSTEM ( and please!!! don't get me started on that with the USA!!!) This is just a card (albiet issued by the Govt, something the US DOES NOT DO) for Seniors to get discounts; you have to go to the Mexican Govt to get the card to identify you as a senior to get discounts at MERCHANTS. In the USA, you'd only have to flash your Driv Lic with your DOB; but in Mex you have to have a Govt Issd ID Card! Point is, merchants participate in the "program".

Merchants that participate get the business; those that don't.... well, dont!

Bruce R Leech - 8-13-2007 at 08:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabound2005
Bruce R Leech: the point of my post was that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WELFARE SYSTEM ( and please!!! don't get me started on that with the USA!!!) This is just a card (albiet issued by the Govt, something the US DOES NOT DO) for Seniors to get discounts; you have to go to the Mexican Govt to get the card to identify you as a senior to get discounts at MERCHANTS. In the USA, you'd only have to flash your Driv Lic with your DOB; but in Mex you have to have a Govt Issd ID Card! Point is, merchants participate in the "program".

Merchants that participate get the business; those that don't.... well, dont!


sorry you got upset I did not mean it to be personal for you. I just couldn't pull that card out in the supermarket and use it with my basket full of stakes and expensive things when there are a lot of Mexicanos watching that cant afford anything but beans for there family's and they cant get a card. when you have lived here long enough and here the people talking about the gringos you will understand. allot of Mexicanos don't get the card for the same reasons.

lets get togather some time

????

bajaguy - 8-13-2007 at 09:31 PM

Am I missing something????? I see this as a senior discount card available to anyone who meets the requirement. Whats the problem???? :?::?::?:

bajamigo - 8-14-2007 at 01:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
I just couldn't pull that card out in the supermarket and use it with my basket full of stakes and expensive things when there are a lot of Mexicanos watching that cant afford anything but beans for there family's and they cant get a card. when you have lived here long enough and here the people talking about the gringos you will understand. allot of Mexicanos don't get the card for the same reasons.


I believe you're missing the point. If you think your basket full of "stakes" is going to upset somebody, it won't be the price you pay for them but instead the mere fact that you can afford them that will POSSIBLY create some resentment. Conspicuous consumption is offensive in any language, but what this has to do with a senior citizen discount, I can't fathom. If you're so wracked by guilt over feeding your family in the best way you can, pass along any savings from the card to someone less fortunate, rather than to the Gigante. And when you use the card, don't flash it; hand it discreetly to the clerk in the same way you do your money.
:light:

Capt. George - 8-14-2007 at 05:35 AM

self sufficient and not a burden on Mexicos welfare system....oh, you mean like what the Mexicans do in our country?

If there are those Americans living in Mexico (because living in the states is next to impossible on a fixed income) in need, it ought to be available to them...Or at least to the extent that illegal Mexicans in the states are sucking up our social programs! Oh, poor Mexico, get real!

bye bye

CaboRon - 8-14-2007 at 06:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
Quote:
Originally posted by bajabound2005
Bruce R Leech: the point of my post was that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WELFARE SYSTEM ( and please!!! don't get me started on that with the USA!!!) This is just a card (albiet issued by the Govt, something the US DOES NOT DO) for Seniors to get discounts; you have to go to the Mexican Govt to get the card to identify you as a senior to get discounts at MERCHANTS. In the USA, you'd only have to flash your Driv Lic with your DOB; but in Mex you have to have a Govt Issd ID Card! Point is, merchants participate in the "program".

Merchants that participate get the business; those that don't.... well, dont!


sorry you got upset I did not mean it to be personal for you. I just couldn't pull that card out in the supermarket and use it with my basket full of stakes and expensive things when there are a lot of Mexicanos watching that cant afford anything but beans for there family's and they cant get a card. when you have lived here long enough and here the people talking about the gringos you will understand. allot of Mexicanos don't get the card for the same reasons.

lets get togather some time


Mr. Leach,
I am a person who cannot afford to retire in the US.. And I certainly won't be able to afford a basket full of steaks and other expensive foods at the market.

So, for me, third age discounts at merchants are a valuable resoource .

So don't judge people until you yourself have walked in our shoes.

You are sounding like an Ugly Amerikan with your insensitive remarks.

I hope you enjoy your steak.

-CaboRon

Baja Bernie - 8-14-2007 at 07:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Al G
It never ceases to amaze me at the people who want something for nothing...and are willing prostitute thier manhood...how low do you really go:lol::lol::lol:


Agree and embarrassed. I know some of these folks live fairly high on the hog and they still want a freebie.

Perhaps if they were living on a thousand pecos a month I would feel differently..........but no American does...........heck even druggies and drunks get $565 an month from SSI and the checks will now be deposited in Mexico so they don't even have to return to Otra Lado once a month for the money.

Bruce R Leech - 8-14-2007 at 07:09 AM

CaboRon
what insensitive remarks? this is just my opinion and nothing more. I am sorry you are so poor, but as poor as you think you are you have a lot more than most here. why don't you just stand on the corner with your hand out.

when the market gives you the 5 % discount who do you think makes up for it? the lady with the 5 kids and no husband that is standing behind you. and everyone else that doesn't have a card that is who. I think it is real nice that they have this program for those that relay need it but there are always those that abuse these things.

CaboRon - 8-14-2007 at 07:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
CaboRon
what insensitive remarks? this is just my opinion and nothing more. I am sorry you are so poor, but as poor as you think you are you have a lot more than most here. why don't you just stand on the corner with your hand out.

when the market gives you the 5 % discount who do you think makes up for it? the lady with the 5 kids and no husband that is standing behind you. and everyone else that doesn't have a card that is who. I think it is real nice that they have this program for those that relay need it but there are always those that abuse these things.


Don't feel sorry for me. And you really don't get it, do you.
This is no different than a free coffee with your meal at Jacks.
I am not a beggar. just someone willing to take advantage of what is offered to me.

And the lady and her kids behind me DO NOT share in Gigantica's profits and loss. The shareholders/owner profits from the enterprise ....

Enjoy your steak !

- CaboRon

bajabound2005 - 8-14-2007 at 07:27 AM

I wouldn't advise buying stake or steak at Gigante. The quality is much better in Costco or any carniceria!

Bruce R Leech - 8-14-2007 at 07:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon


Don't feel sorry for me. And you really don't get it, do you.
This is no different than a free coffee with your meal at Jacks.
I am not a beggar. just someone willing to take advantage of what is offered to me.

And the lady and her kids behind me DO NOT share in Gigantica's profits and loss. The shareholders/owner profits from the enterprise ....

Enjoy your steak !

- CaboRon


you are very naive if you don't think that your 5% isn't passed along to the other customers. do you relay think that those big Co.s pay for that out of their profits?:?:

I wish I could retire. some of us have to work for a living.

CaboRon - 8-14-2007 at 07:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabound2005
I wouldn't advise buying stake or steak at Gigante. The quality is much better in Costco or any carniceria!


That holds true for the Gigante in Anaheim too :lol::lol:

- CaboRon

CaboRon - 8-14-2007 at 07:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lencho
Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon
Don't feel sorry for me. And you really don't get it, do you.

I suspect he does get it... :D

A question is whether the discounts granted with this card are some sort of subsidy, government or otherwise. If so, have foreign retirees earned the "right" to take advantage of them?

--Larry


Larry,

You are right... that is the question.

Sign me maybe naive,

-CaboRon

bajabound2005 - 8-14-2007 at 07:57 AM

It is absolutely not a Government subsidy of any kind. These are merchants that have agreed to participate in the program.

You can also get 1/2 off admission to many museums and cultural arts centers. In the US many places have a senior price (movie theatres, airlines, museums, etc)! At Foxploration they give you a discounted ticket if you are a Baja resident. Should we not take advantage of these offered discounts because we don't NEED to? Or maybe after someone has paid full price for their 60+ years on earth they EARNED the discount?

I frequent a shop in Ensenada where every time I go there they mark off a little card I carry in my wallet. After so many visits, I get a discount on the next visit. Should I throw that away, too? Should we never buy anything when it's on sale?

But, really, don't buy the steak at Gigante!

Oh, wait! I just got an email from LL Bean. It includes a $10 discount on my next order for my LOYALTY. I guess I'd better not use that either. Hmmm. Or if I keep saving money by shopping smartly we can help our local rural school buy supplies for the classrooms and teachers.

[Edited on 8-14-2007 by bajabound2005]

DENNIS - 8-14-2007 at 08:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
Dennis, you gonna explain to me what other posters mean? You're gonna have a lot of work to do. All-inclusive, broad-brush, mean spirited nonsense will get attention every time on this board.

No, not other posters, just Al in this particular case. If you had followed the thread from the start, you would have seen the flow and direction of sentiment. You have entered the thread at a late date and proceeded to pick at the bleached out bones of an archaic post, dragging them out of context to render an edict on a mans moral condition. How pompous can you be. How, in the name of God, did you extrapolate anything homophobic from Al's post?
It seems that attention is your goal and your method of achieving you goal through mean spirited nonsense is one with which you are familiar as you noted above. Your hand is well formed for the infamous broad brush.

By the way, George, I have a question of style. When addressing Al, you speak like a perfumed quasi-poet. When you address me, you speak like a dock hand. Whats up with that?

Osprey - 8-14-2007 at 08:24 AM

Well, you're just more manly I guess. The thread goes on. Now you begin to get the other side of the story. What is ignoble about accepting discounts, anywhere, any time? While you're in the explaining mood tell my pompous ass all about it.

bajamigo - 8-14-2007 at 08:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech

you are very naive if you don't think that your 5% isn't passed along to the other customers. do you relay think that those big Co.s pay for that out of their profits?:?:

I wish I could retire. some of us have to work for a living.


You still don't get it. Gigante, like other large companies, does not look at the books at the end of the day and set the next day's prices based on how much they paid out in discounts. Like advertising, spoilage, theft, employee compensation, etc., etc., the value of the discount is factored into their everyday prices -- it is part of the cost of goods sold. Whether you take advantage of it or not, everybody gets to pay it. If you don't use it, the shareholders of Gigante will thank you. This is business 101.

Perhaps you could more easily afford to retire if you utilized the resources that are offered to you and not worried so much about the social implications of buying a bag of beans. And the last time I looked, there was no stigma to planning to retire.

;D

[Edited on 8-14-2007 by bajamigo]

DENNIS - 8-14-2007 at 08:30 AM

Are the stores being subsidized by the government for the discounts?
There's a lot we will probably never know.

bajabound2005 - 8-14-2007 at 08:32 AM

If the stores or other merchants were being subsidized, wouldn't they ALL participate?

longlegsinlapaz - 8-14-2007 at 08:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Bernie
Quote:
Originally posted by Al G
It never ceases to amaze me at the people who want something for nothing...and are willing prostitute thier manhood...how low do you really go:lol::lol::lol:


Agree and embarrassed. I know some of these folks live fairly high on the hog and they still want a freebie.

Perhaps if they were living on a thousand pecos a month I would feel differently..........but no American does...........heck even druggies and drunks get $565 an month from SSI and the checks will now be deposited in Mexico so they don't even have to return to Otra Lado once a month for the money.


Al G...Well, color me surprised...I agree with Osprey. First of all, not all of us have a "manhood" to prostitute. Secondly, prostitution has historically been sexual favors in return for monetary or other tangible reward. Could you please explain how a senior citizen of any nationality making use of a benefit offered by a governmental agency & the merchants and/or service providers who choose to participate, is "something for nothing" and specifically what is "low" about it? It's NOT welfare, it's a senior discount, the same exact type of senior discount that's offered for seniors by many U.S. companies. It's a sign of respect for age & an acknowledgment of; in the majority of cases; a dramatically reduced income. The majority of Gringos DO contribute to the Mexican economy at a much greater monetary rate than the majority of Mexican senior citizens are able to, so how do you view senior discounts as "something for nothing"? Are you trying to imply that you don't take advantage of senior discounts which are offered to you in the U.S.??

Bernie...Why on earth would you be embarrassed to make use of a discount program offered by merchants who chose to participate knowing that qualifying seniors of any nationality could make use of a benefit offered based primarily on the number of years of life?? Me thinks you maybe forgot about a certain age group...Not all "old farts" are created equally; some of us haven't yet made it to the age of collecting Social Security. And it's true that we don't live on $1,000 pesos a month, however I know there are many of us for do live on $9,000-10,000 pesos a month. Not all of us live "high on the hog", some of us happen to fall closer to "hoof" level.;D I fall into the not old enough for senior discount, but too young for SS category, and I doubt that I'm alone. I also think it's important to realize that there are a lot of us who might possibly be in a position of having taken the lemons life has tossed at us & setting up a lemonade stand in a place where we could AFFORD to...not all of us who are retired made it to "retirement" of our own free will, many of us were outsourced, laid off, or otherwise non-voluntarily relieved of our earning capabilities at an age where hitting the streets looking for gainful employment anywhere near our former salary simply wasn't a viable option. Now...ya gonna buy a glass of lemonade or not...gimme your senior discount card & I'll add a little sugar to the glass just for you!;)

DENNIS - 8-14-2007 at 08:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
Well, you're just more manly I guess. The thread goes on. Now you begin to get the other side of the story. What is ignoble about accepting discounts, anywhere, any time? While you're in the explaining mood tell my pompous burro all about it.

Can't do that. I don't know any more than you or anybody above really knows about the structure of this thing.
I do know, however, that neither the Mexican government nor business in Mexico is known for their grandiose generosity.

CaboRon - 8-14-2007 at 08:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
Well, you're just more manly I guess. The thread goes on. Now you begin to get the other side of the story. What is ignoble about accepting discounts, anywhere, any time? While you're in the explaining mood tell my pompous burro all about it.

Can't do that. I don't know any more than you or anybody above really knows about the structure of this thing.
I do know, however, that neither the Mexican government nor business in Mexico is known for their grandiose generosity.


I just have to step in here and say that, in many cultures there is a sociatal (sic) respect for persons in their third age.


- CaboRon

DENNIS - 8-14-2007 at 08:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabound2005
If the stores or other merchants were being subsidized, wouldn't they ALL participate?

Depends on who has the strongest lobby, I would imagine. Maybe the option isn't available to everybody.

Al G - 8-14-2007 at 08:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Bernie
Quote:
Originally posted by Al G
It never ceases to amaze me at the people who want something for nothing...and are willing prostitute thier manhood...how low do you really go:lol::lol::lol:


Agree and embarrassed. I know some of these folks live fairly high on the hog and they still want a freebie.

Perhaps if they were living on a thousand pecos a month I would feel differently..........but no American does...........heck even druggies and drunks get $565 an month from SSI and the checks will now be deposited in Mexico so they don't even have to return to Otra Lado once a month for the money.


Al G...Well, color me surprised...I agree with Osprey. First of all, not all of us have a "manhood" to prostitute. Secondly, prostitution has historically been sexual favors in return for monetary or other tangible reward. Could you please explain how a senior citizen of any nationality making use of a benefit offered by a governmental agency & the merchants and/or service providers who choose to participate, is "something for nothing" and specifically what is "low" about it? It's NOT welfare, it's a senior discount, the same exact type of senior discount that's offered for seniors by many U.S. companies. It's a sign of respect for age & an acknowledgment of; in the majority of cases; a dramatically reduced income. The majority of Gringos DO contribute to the Mexican economy at a much greater monetary rate than the majority of Mexican senior citizens are able to, so how do you view senior discounts as "something for nothing"? Are you trying to imply that you don't take advantage of senior discounts which are offered to you in the U.S.??

Bernie...Why on earth would you be embarrassed to make use of a discount program offered by merchants who chose to participate knowing that qualifying seniors of any nationality could make use of a benefit offered based primarily on the number of years of life?? Me thinks you maybe forgot about a certain age group...Not all "old farts" are created equally; some of us haven't yet made it to the age of collecting Social Security. And it's true that we don't live on $1,000 pesos a month, however I know there are many of us for do live on $9,000-10,000 pesos a month. Not all of us live "high on the hog", some of us happen to fall closer to "hoof" level.;D I fall into the not old enough for senior discount, but too young for SS category, and I doubt that I'm alone. I also think it's important to realize that there are a lot of us who might possibly be in a position of having taken the lemons life has tossed at us & setting up a lemonade stand in a place where we could AFFORD to...not all of us who are retired made it to "retirement" of our own free will, many of us were outsourced, laid off, or otherwise non-voluntarily relieved of our earning capabilities at an age where hitting the streets looking for gainful employment anywhere near our former salary simply wasn't a viable option. Now...ya gonna buy a glass of lemonade or not...gimme your senior discount card & I'll add a little sugar to the glass just for you!;)

I have to go out and support my this AM...be sure and check back as I do have a few words for you...

DENNIS - 8-14-2007 at 08:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon

I just have to step in here and say that, in many cultures there is a sociatal (sic) respect for persons in their third age.



Societal respect is motivated by a different bottom line than business.

bajabound2005 - 8-14-2007 at 09:17 AM

Dennis, shouldn't you be putting the insulation in?

CaboRon - 8-14-2007 at 09:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon

I just have to step in here and say that, in many cultures there is a sociatal (sic) respect for persons in their third age.



Societal respect is motivated by a different bottom line than business.


Yes it is motivated by LOVE rather than GREED .

- CaboRon

DENNIS - 8-14-2007 at 10:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabound2005
Dennis, shouldn't you be putting the insulation in?

I am. It's itchy so, I'm taking a Pacifico break.

bajabound2005 - 8-14-2007 at 10:58 AM

Ah! Breakfast of Champions! Maybe we can use the discount card at the Deposito?

Pacifico??????

bajaguy - 8-14-2007 at 10:59 AM

Count me in..........

DENNIS - 8-14-2007 at 01:08 PM

Isn't it peculiar how life imitates art? Until today I thought it was Art Buchwald but, I see a more contemporary, practical use for the axiom.
There is a show on TV where the contestants call for help to answer questions and, this is where this frustrating thread has led us, to call our friends for help in filling in the blanks on this issue. [ gawd, I hate that show ]

"I want to call a friend."
"OK, who do you want to call?"

"I want to call Jesse and Fernando."

"Jesse and Fernando? OK. Here goes." ring ring ring ring

"Hi, Jesse and Fernando. This is the world's most annoying game show hostess with some questions from the Nomads. Cool, huh. OK, here we go:

Is this a government sponsored program to assist the needy or is it a buisness promotion? Realizing that today it could be considered both, the question asks why the program was started and who assumes credit for it."

The hostess cranks up her most cloying grin toward the camera and says, "You have one third of a second left."

OK you guys. Add or subtract our questions to the experts and hope that they respond because we just don't know what's going on with this issue.

DENNIS - 8-14-2007 at 01:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Count me in..........

You're always in, Terry. Thanks for the living room art. I'm gonna turn it into a shrine.

bajabound2005 - 8-14-2007 at 01:55 PM

Here's a little something to either muddy the waters or clear things up.


GLOBAL AGING ROUNDTABLE
2005 WHITE HOUSE CONFERENCE ON AGING

Remarks By

Pedro Borda
Director,
National Institute of Senior Citizens,
Ministry of Social Development, Mexico

At present, Mexico has a population of 7.8 million senior citizens, out of which slightly over 50% are women. All of them demand goods and services.

However, the demographic projections indicate that for the year 2025 there will be 18.4 million people 60 years of age or more, and for the year 2050 there will be 36 million.

The above numbers represent actually 7.6% of total population and for year 2050, 28% of the total population.

New Decree

To take care of the needs of our elders, a Presidential Decree was issued by President Vicente Fox on January 17, 2002 to place this institution under the umbrella of the Ministry of Social Development, and to change its name to Instituto Nacional de Adultos en Plenitud (National Institute of Adults in the Prime of Life) or Inaplen.

Legislation

The first Federal National law to protect the rights of senior citizens was enacted by Congress on June 25, 2002 to create the Instituto Nacional de las Personas Adultas Mayores (National Institute of Senior Citizens) or Inapam as a substitute of the former Insen and Inaplen.

Article 25 of this new law confirms that the governing body of the national policy to protect senior citizens by providing a scope of human integral development to its legal powers and responsibilities, because its general purpose is to coordinate, promote, support, foster, oversee and evaluate the public actions, strategies and programs derived from the currently enforced legislation.

Article 28 attributes the power as the governing body for providing compulsory consultation and advisory functions to federal for government entities and, if applicable, on a voluntary basis to the institutions of the social and private sectors responsible for performing actions or programs applicable to senior citizens.

The provisions established in Article 30 indicate that the Government Body of the Inapam is to be integrated by the Ministers of the following members of the President’s Cabinet:

Ministry of Social Development.
Ministry of the Interior
Ministry of Treasury
Ministry of Public Education
Ministry of Health
Ministry of Labor and Social Welfare
Social Security National Institutions
5 representatives of society (Elderly people)


Infrastructure

31 State Federal Representatives.
1,800 Municipal Representations and 139 Coordinating Offices.
6,700 Community Centers at national level.
4 Cultural Centers in Mexico City.
5 Centers of Integrated Services in Mexico City.
13 Gerontology Units
(Mexico City, Guanajuato, Zacatecas and Oaxaca).


Priority Program

The Program for Employment of Senior Citizens was implemented to reincorporate senior citizens who wish to continue working and participate in the Mexican economy. This program was initiated under the support of the First Lady of the nation and the Minister of Social Development. The first meeting was in the Presidential home.

Currently more than 5,100 companies or individuals have contributed offering spaces for more than 30,000 jobs exclusively for Gente Grande (senior citizens).

This is one of the actions to respond to the 2nd. Assembly on Ageing that called for active employment.

Third and Final Call

2nd. action to respond to the 2nd Assembly on Ageing in Spain.
Senior citizens who propose viable productive projects receive financial support from the Third and Final Call. The fund is constituted by the Ministries of Social Development and of Economy.

The Inapam Visits your Community

Mobile units bring medical and dental services, legal advice, affiliation and employment promotion to senior citizens living in marginal areas of Mexico City and rural areas throughout the country.

Youngsters Provide Support to Senior Citizens

This program responds to specific instructions of President Vicente Fox.

An exchange of values is strengthened among the girls of foster homes run by the DIF and senior citizens living at homes operated by Inapam.

Senior Citizens Searching for Friends

This program responds to specific instructions of President Vicente Fox.

This program promotes a get together among senior citizens and juvenile delinquents to achieve a dialogue and a transfer of values through cultural, artistic and sports activities. It is carried out jointly with the Centers for Diagnosis and Treatment of the Department of Public Security.

Senior Citizens Act Stories

This program is another action of values transmítanse. It
takes place at elementary schools and at parks in coordination with the Minister of the Public Function to support the Program of Transparency and Struggle Against Corruption.

Protection of the Economy

I.D. card for people 60 or more years of age.

Senior citizens obtain multiple benefits in the acquisition of goods and services. Discounts in products or services range between 5 to 100% at supermarkets, drugstores, transportation, restaurants, clinical studies, etc.

Agreements have been signed at more than 25,000 establishments to protect the economy of senior citizens. Since the creation of the Institute, 75 million ID cards have been issued in the country.


Department of Legal Services

Provides free legal advice to elders 60 or more years old who lack the economic means to hire a lawyer, mainly in the protection of their properties, birth certificates and wills.

Community Centers

We operate 6,700 clubs for elderly people distributed throughout the country. It is the largest social chain in the country, more than 200,000 people attend daily.

Computer Training Center

After two years of the initiation more than 2,000 senior citizens have completed an 8 week computer course. These training Center were donated by IBM (Mexico). 8 Centers are now operational.

Voluntary Programs

This program is presided over by Adriana Borda, President of the National Voluntary Organization and liaison with the Office of the First Lady.

The ladies’ voluntary organization of Inapam performs various activities in favor of senior citizens, such as permanent visits to homes and day nursing homes, the sale of different goods, and the Annual Art Crafts Bazaar.

Arts Craft Store

The general public can purchase products created by senior citizens, who attend the clubs, cultural centers and day nursing homes.

Main Events

This action responds to the 2nd. World Assembly on Ageing and Active Life

The traditional National Sports and Cultural Games promote health-related activities for senior citizens through the performance of various activities. During the national games of 2005 a total of 3,500 elderly persons participated.

This event for the 5th. Consecutive years have been inaugurated by President Vicente Fox Quesada.

National Exhibition of Art Crafts made by Elderly People

This event is organized every year with the support received from Voluntary organization, delegates, assistant delegates, senior citizens, clubs and nursing homes.

The Night for Gente Grande

Every year, more than 100,000 senior citizens enjoy the pleasures of music and dancing at an event known as The dance to remember.

This event is held at the Sports Palace of Mexico City and it is preceded by two major dances at different political delegations. 1,500 state events are organized in August. This dance was presided over by Mrs. Marta Fox, First Lady of Mexico.

When confronted with an increasing demographic aging rate as that recorded in the country, the challenge faced by Inapam is its commitment to improve the living conditions of the Gente Grande through the programs it has implemented.

New Actions

Major communications program on the law and services provided for elderly people.

Tele Care for Medical Assistance, 24 hours/365 days.

Certification of day care centers and nursing homes (installations and human resources).

Three new computer centers

[Edited on 8-14-2007 by bajabound2005]

WoW

bajaguy - 8-14-2007 at 02:00 PM

Community Centers

We operate 6,700 clubs for elderly people distributed throughout the country. It is the largest social chain in the country, more than 200,000 people attend daily.

Wonder if there are any in our area???..........

DENNIS:....you are most welcome....at least now it has a good home!!!!

[Edited on 8-14-2007 by bajaguy]

gracias, bajabound

sylens - 8-14-2007 at 02:02 PM

i, for one, really appreciate the information you have been providing since your arrival.:spingrin:

i also enjoy your sense of humor. :bounce:

bajaguy - 8-14-2007 at 02:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sylens
i, for one, really appreciate the information you have been providing since your arrival.:spingrin:

i also enjoy your sense of humor. :bounce:




And she is a good cook!!!...:lol::lol::lol:

longlegsinlapaz - 8-14-2007 at 02:24 PM

I, for two, also appreciate your posts & humor...alas, I can't attest to your cooking capabilities!;D Guess I'll just have to believe bajaguy!

bajabound 2005

Baja Bernie - 8-14-2007 at 04:02 PM

I have heard that you are a good cook and that you share your bounty with other, less well off, expats. You should be complimented for your efforts.

Did you realize when you started this thread that you would expend, to date, 2, 173 words justifying the use of the discount card?

DENNIS - 8-14-2007 at 04:05 PM

Thanks BB.......... Good research. It tells us what it is and why it is.
I still have a problem thinking we expats fit the demographic of the stated plan. We havn't achieved senior citizen status under the conditions that the people in Mexico have. We didn't come up in a society with a repressive government.
Your research shows that the program was put in place to alleve some of the burden placed on the backs of the people by their past. This wasn't our burden and it wasn't our past.
At any rate, how can you see this, in light of your research, as a retail promotion? There's nothing altruistic about commercial promotion but, there is something heartwarming about a government program, regardless of hidden machinations, that will benefit the people which it serves. We expats are not that people.

So, are we in agreement that this is not a double-your-cupon business opportunity? It's not just a method of lureing old folks into a store? It has another grand design? It may have an altruistic basis? It may be for Mexicans that, until this, have been given nothing by their government?

We don't belong in this effort. We can only pollute it. It's a private thing. We don't need it.
Let it go.

DENNIS - 8-14-2007 at 04:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Bernie
Did you realize when you started this thread that you would expend, to date, 2, 173 words justifying the use of the discount card?

Oh my God, Bernie.............did you count them?

Baja Bernie - 8-14-2007 at 04:25 PM

No! I wished to be accurate so I copied and pasted and then hit word count button.

Quicker and I didn't have to set down my beer.

Accounting 101

Dave - 8-14-2007 at 05:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
So, are we in agreement that this is not a double-your-cupon business opportunity? It's not just a method of lureing old folks into a store? It has another grand design? It may have an altruistic basis? It may be for Mexicans that, until this, have been given nothing by their government?


Altruism or not, this program does affect a participating company's tax basis. One could argue that Mexican seniors would receive a transferred benefit. You could not make the same argument v expat retirees.

bajabound2005 - 8-14-2007 at 05:38 PM

Kudos for the research goes to Beachbum1A; he found that article.

Gov't issued discount card

ckiefer - 5-3-2008 at 05:58 PM

Please take advantage of any discounts offered you, whether you feel they are earned or not. You can put the money you save into a special account and use it for long term care. You never know (and cannot predict) when your health will decline, and you receive a diagnosis of a progressive degenerative disease, given maybe 5 years to live. Within that five years, three of which you may be wheelchair bound, unable to speak or care for yourself and need 24 hour care.
Living that now. Please be kind to yourselves.

DENNIS - 5-3-2008 at 07:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ckiefer
Please be kind to yourselves.


Yours is a pretty gloomy prognosis for those here looking to enjoy retirement years in our adopted country. It sounds almost personal. My condolences if it is but, how much relief could one expect from a discount on a kilo of tortillas? If that would make a difference, perhaps one should be in a more helpful environment, such as the states. The truly needy won't do well in Mexico.


By the way.......Just out of curiosity, which La Jolla do you live in?

[Edited on 5-4-2008 by DENNIS]

vandenberg - 5-3-2008 at 08:25 PM

My card saves me just enough so I don't have to eat dogfood.:saint:

DENNIS - 5-3-2008 at 08:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vandenberg
My card saves me just enough so I don't have to eat dogfood.:saint:


I don't know Ed...My dog eats dog food and she's as healthy, or more so, than I.

ckiefer - 5-3-2008 at 08:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by ckiefer
Please be kind to yourselves.


Yours is a pretty gloomy prognosis for those here looking to enjoy retirement years in our adopted country. It sounds almost personal. My condolences if it is but, how much relief could one expect from a discount on a kilo of tortillas? If that would make a difference, perhaps one should be in a more helpful environment, such as the states. The truly needy won't do well in Mexico.


By the way.......Just out of curiosity, which La Jolla do you live in?

[Edited on 5-4-2008 by DENNIS]

As you can see I'm new here, and not sure if I'm doing this right, but I'm going to use you as my trial and error, post response. Seems you're pretty quick to jump to conclusions or just highly opinionated. It's not gloomy, it's life. We are enjoying our time here in Baja very much! We travel, love, laugh, and pretty much do everything else, one without a "gloomy diagnosis" would do. If you are referring to one's financial means, then by no means are we "needy". Just because a person has a "gloomy diagnosis"or is handicapped, does not mean they are "needy". I guess some are, we aren't. But I still enjoy a bargain when one is presented to me. It's kinda like a bonus for reaching the age of maturity! And, I think we can all agree that it's a bit more than just a discount on a kilo of tortillas (not that I'd pass that up either!). I guess it's all in how you view life.
Regarding where in La Jolla, well a girl has to have some secrets, ya know.

DENNIS - 5-3-2008 at 08:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ckiefer
Seems you're pretty quick to jump to conclusions or just highly opinionated.


Actually, I'm a whole bunch of both and I didn't say "diagnosis." I mentioned "prognosis" which is a means to recovery.
Good for you on your efforts toward frugality. I admire that. I'll bet even Howard Hughes went to a garage sale or two.
So..give me a clue. Do all the Mexicans in your La Jolla neighborhood have leaf blowers strapped to their backs?

ckiefer - 5-3-2008 at 08:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by ckiefer
Seems you're pretty quick to jump to conclusions or just highly opinionated.


Actually, I'm a whole bunch of both and I didn't say "diagnosis." I mentioned "prognosis" which is a means to recovery.
Good for you on your efforts toward frugality. I admire that. I'll bet even Howard Hughes went to a garage sale or two.
So..give me a clue. Do all the Mexicans in your La Jolla neighborhood have leaf blowers strapped to their backs?


I stand corrected, "prognosis"! No clues, Dennis, you're too smart to guess, and blow my anonymity!

DENNIS - 5-3-2008 at 09:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ckiefer
No clues, Dennis, you're too smart to guess, and blow my anonymity!


The game is on. You write too well to be barren of ego.

bajabound2005 - 5-3-2008 at 09:22 PM

Yikes! This ancient thread has been revived? Well, with Bajamigo's senior card we got some now forgotten discount off our entire bill at Calimax (maybe 5%). We usually forget to pull that thing out of the wallet. Oh, but we did get 50% (yes - read half) off blood tests at Laboratorio Nunez for blood work he needed to have done before recent surgery in the US.

DENNIS - 5-3-2008 at 09:28 PM

When they work at the gas stations, let me know.

ckiefer - 5-3-2008 at 09:34 PM

Yea!!!! Let the discounts roll in!! My fault for reviving the thread. Also looking for information pertaining to importing my 1998 vehicle and getting a health certificate. I've been told that I need the certificate from the Health Department in La Paz to be able to legally have prescription medication mailed without being confiscated at the border. Is it true that all three can be completed in La Paz?

CaboRon - 5-4-2008 at 06:34 AM

Well, now that this topic is out of the bag again .....

Does anyone know if there is a discount (with the card) on the electric bill.

Thanks,

CaboRon

bajabound2005 - 5-4-2008 at 06:53 AM

no on the electric, but if you get city water, there is a discount on that!