BajaNomad

Emergency Medical Flight Insurance

roundtuit - 8-5-2007 at 04:58 PM

Heard there was some plans available from BCS to states.
Any comments appreciated. Thanks :?::?::?::?:

Elena La Loca - 8-5-2007 at 05:15 PM

Binational Medical Emergency Medical Care Committee
http://www.binationalemergency.org

elizabeth - 8-5-2007 at 05:32 PM

For insurance...try MedjetAssist...they have a website. Have never had to use it, so I can't vouch for them...but their fees are reasonable, and appear to offer extensive coverage.

BigWooo - 8-5-2007 at 07:07 PM

There might be some useful information here:

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=24186#pid2212...

jeans - 8-5-2007 at 08:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Elena La Loca
Binational Medical Emergency Medical Care Committee
http://www.binationalemergency.org


Yes LN...Celia Diaz of Binational Medical Emergency Medical Care Committee can answer this question best, because she is the one who has to deal with them...She knows who the reputable services are...how to coordinate between your insurances, your family and the two governments. She watches out for your interests when everybody else is wanting money.

That is what your $30 membership pays for. She got my mother out of Gonzaga at 2:00am using the US Coast Guard.

She can also be very candid about different hospitals...she has had at least two "hide" patients she was trying to evacuate. (they know a cash cow when they see one)

Debra - 8-5-2007 at 09:02 PM

They wouldn't get Mike H. out of Bahia at 7pm. 4 hours (that may or may not have saved his life were lost.........he was alive when the ambulance got him to the hospital, he died shortly there after! Mary Ann was told over and over, that they could not land in Bahia at dark, why wasn't the Coast Guard brougt in in that case?!

After he died she did get a 'very nice' letter from them along with a form to pay-up to renew! YEAH RIGHT! I'll sigh right up for that!

jeans - 8-5-2007 at 10:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Debra
They wouldn't get Mike H. out of Bahia at 7pm. 4 hours (that may or may not have saved his life were lost.........he was alive when the ambulance got him to the hospital, he died shortly there after! Mary Ann was told over and over, that they could not land in Bahia at dark, why wasn't the Coast Guard brougt in in that case?!

After he died she did get a 'very nice' letter from them along with a form to pay-up to renew! YEAH RIGHT! I'll sigh right up for that!


Oh Debra....I wish Mike was still with us too! If Celia couldn't get him out in time, it was not for lack of trying. It is my understanding that if there is an airstrip that can support an air evac service, USCG is not an option. I do not know why.

Alfonsina's airstip is too small...I have no idea about Bahia and do not know if that was a factor.

Any way you look at it, emergencies in Baja are a crapshot....it is something we all do not want to think about. I would rather spend the $30 and take my chances than go it alone.

bajajudy - 8-6-2007 at 07:02 AM

This is something for you to think about. If you dont have US insurance where will they take you. We have Skymed, signed up for 5 years when we moved down and reupped when they offered a special deal for people who live down here. BUT it is no good if they dont have your insurance approved hospital to take you to. Also the reason for the special deal was they are a travel ins. company and had to issue a different policy to people who lived down here full time. Although we have never had to use their service, I have never heard anything bad about them.

capt. mike - 8-6-2007 at 07:19 AM

they use jets on contract charter. you have to be able to be picked up at a facility that allows nite operations, like at certain big city baja airports - very few.

i'd read the contracts of all service providers very closely before you joined one. your particular need or condition might not take advantage of many of the insurance companies that do this - and they ARE simply insurance companies.

Debra - 8-7-2007 at 07:52 PM

Capt., Mike,

it was you that I most wanted to talk to about the rules about flying at night in Baja, when I found out about what happened with Mike, (not until the day after his 'wake' I was just peeED! I broke down in front of Mary Ann and their sons, having been blind sided with what happened (I was in Costa Rica at the time he died and didn't find out until 2 weeks later (I was going to email you, but, one thing after another prevented me from doing that.

Since this subject has come up here on the forum, (and I'm sure others are interested) could you please give us the 'low-down'? I just can't understand that some kind of plan isn't in the works for just this sort of emergency! OR SHOULD BE! If it's lighting on the runway, I know that one "help!" sent up in Bahia and 100 cars would have lined up on that runway! I've also heard planes come in at dusk..........Mike was at the clinic way before dark, needing transport out, I don't know what time the call was sent out to the EMV (Mary Ann was I'm sure in shock) as I said, I was in Costa Rica, so I don't have the facts with what happeneid that day, I just really feel that somehow, someone dropped the ball, and I want to make sure that we all know just what to do, so this never happens again.

Jeans, you can probably (through your friend) answer alot of these questions, and Capt. you know how the landing rules work. There just has to be a way to make sure this doesn't happen again.

David K - 8-7-2007 at 08:15 PM

Mike Humfreville is gone and we are very sad... I bet he is happy that Baja is his resting place... It is mine, and Mike and I shared a love from Baja that dated back to the mid Sixties.

Since Debra broke the silence on the events of last November, I too wonder why Celia couldn't get a rescue plane to land at L.A. Bay's PAVED airport? As most of us probably wouldn't be near a big Baja airport, what is the good of this service?

Was Celia calling for jeans' mom just lucky in getting the Coast Gaurd to land at Gonzaga Bay...? I am happy that they did! But, why was nothing available for Mike... How about at San Quintin where he was taken? There is a paved, military airport there.

I have emailed Celia about my coverage and never got a reply... She seems like a really nice lady... Maybe more office help is needed?

capt. mike - 8-8-2007 at 06:26 AM

more complicated than you think.

all the providers subcontract with several optional medivac charters to get coverage, all the charters have their own rules and operations minimums.
then there are the mex FARs (rules) which frankly are inconsistantly enforced - so vary depending on location.
and a pick up point may have to have fuel based on the field for the return.
everyone looks at liability i don't care what the policy says it can do or provide - it always will be a crap shoot.

if you're sick in cabo , la paz, los cabos or loreto (maybe) and get ambulanced to the airport - yeah a jet can be arranged and you'll be whisked home directly for $25,000 or less if you are covered by one of these policies.
if not - good luck. if you have health issues, stay in the usa or retire in a bigger city with the services you need.

a field that is not lighted officially with extended ops hours cannot be used at night, and lining up car headlights is never legal or approved for a regulated carrier - may work for a private person, if he wants to take a stupid chance!

bottom line - lots of variables for conditions at hand. What works once may not work another time/case.

Debra - 8-9-2007 at 10:53 AM

I'm sure it IS complicated, that is why I'm asking the question (trying to fiqure it out)

Just for arguement sake, what would happen for example if we rewound the clock and.......

Say, since the EMV people couldn't do anything (still don't know why) if Mary Ann had contacted you or some other pilot, and he/she had agreed to fly in to get Mike out of there, what would the Navy do? shoot the plane down? Give a big whopping ticket? Again, it just seems that with a life on the line and a perfectly good run-way, that something couldn't have been done.........call me naive, but, I think there has to be away of making sure this doesn't happen again.

Anybody else with any ideas, experience?

jeans - 8-9-2007 at 07:52 PM

I just got off the phone with Celia Diaz of BEMCC. I informed her of this discussion and she immediately called Maryann. Maryann gave permission for Celia to relay the details of that night.

First of all, Celia keeps detailed record and timelines of all rescues. Who she talked to, what was said, etc. Celia got the call at 6:30pm. She told Maryanne that a plane could not be sent at that hour, but that she would look into other means of transportation including the Coast Guard (if available). But Celia told her that there was the possibility that they might have to wait until morning.

Celia started working on getting the Coast Guard. At 7:00pm the decision was made in Bahia to transport Mike by land. Celia learned of that decision at 8:30.

I know from personal experience when they evacuated my mother that it took Celia over 4 hours to get that clearance. I got the call at 6:00 pm…the CG got there at 2:00Am. That is 8 HOURS. It would have been too late for Mike had Celia been able to work her way through two governments.

Remember…this is remote Mexico….immediate emergency services are not available. My mom was able to survive the pain of a crushed hip because the whole campo raided their medicine cabinets of every pain med known to man.

I will not discuss this any further in open forum.



[Edited on 8-10-2007 by jeans]

Minnow - 8-9-2007 at 08:15 PM

Obviously you and Celia are friends. Good on ya. I stated at the time **********, that it would cost someone down the line. *******************************. *****************. I will post a link to the thread where I predicted just such **********. Saludos





[Edited on 8-10-2007 by BajaNomad]

Debra - 8-9-2007 at 09:14 PM

WHOA!, I did not mean to stir up uglyness about this! I'm just trying to understand how we can better improve this lack in the 'cracks'

MIKE DIDN'T DIE BECAUSE OF ANYTHING THAT WAS UNDER CONTROL! at the time, I'm asking questions because, I think things COULD have been under better control! I'm saying, and ASKING! is there a better way that can be found to handle this?! SO IT NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN! I'm looking for ways to FIX IT! Not put blame, that might make me feel better for a second, but not past that moment..........I ADMIT, I WAS BLINDSIDED WHEN I FIRST HEARD ABOUT THIS AND I WAS peeED BEYOND............well, maybe I was just greiving and lost my 'cool' As much as I wanted (and did on occasion) want to slap him right up side his mouthy mean head, I loved Mike and just couldn't except that he didn't get the help he needed! Worse than that (Mike is dead and gone) I just couldn't accept thst Mary Ann was down there by herself dealing with this and not having the help SHE NEEDED! I won't mention the A-HOLES name that she asked to go with her to drive up to San Quintin following the ambulance and he refused!

I'm sorry, I know I'm ranting, Ive held this in for along time!

Jeans, I don't know what you are refering too about Minnow's reference, but, please don't turn this into a Nomad war, I can't believe that he is refering to anything that happened to your Mom. If you are Tom, SHAME ON YOU!

Nomad's, let's figure out a way to make this better, not turn it into he/she/they should of, could of.......IT HAS TO BE DEALT WITH! Let's put our (what? 10,000 strong?) heads together and find a plan! OR? Excuse me? Let the 'goverment, or "for profit companies' do it for us?????


Judy: I hear your U2U, I have no problem answering you questions right here, I asked Mary Ann last Feb. when first found out about what happened if she had a problem with me talking about this, and she told me ""NO!, go ahead"

I understand the urge to take this to U2, but, I prefer to keep this right out on the board for everyone to 'see, and hear' so we all can learn.........if I get U2's, which I have about this , I may, or may not share with the board , be forwarned, from this point..........I did read the thread about the U2U, "share, not share" and very valid points were made.......

This however is my (HOW DO I MOVE THIS THREAD SO IT'S MINE?) opinon and I just really would like some help figuring out how we can do this better!

Night Landings

Cap - 8-9-2007 at 09:28 PM

If there is ever a situation like this again, I would highly suggest contacting the Baja Bush Pilots. There are a LOT of private guys that would do everything in their power to get someone in need airlifted. The head of the Org. is Jack McCormick, he is a really nice guy, and I have even read some threads on his site about a volunteer group of pilots doing search and rescue. You can contact Jack on his web site www.bajabushpilots.com.
Mexico considers night flying as instrument flying and used to have a restriction on single engine aircraft. I am not sure that is still the case. As someone that has done medical airlifts in the past I can tell you that I would not have hesitated to get your friend out, night, or day, so long as the weather was such that it wouldn't have been more dangerous to make the flight.
I do not know what happened in this case but I offer my sincere condolences to all of this fellows friends, and family.

Pescador - 8-10-2007 at 06:42 AM

I'm glad that Cecelia had a chance to respond to what happened instead of getting roasted unknowingly. It is still important to understand that what she does is arrange for the evacuation and she is the master at doing just that, but you need to have either a policy for actual evacuation cost or coverage with you health insurance plan if you want it paid for. These evacs can cost upwards of $25,000 and one of the things that can slow the process down is that they are probably not going to want to go through the expense of coming down and hoping that you will get around to paying them sometime.

Minnow - 8-10-2007 at 07:42 AM

"I'm wondering if this whole incident doesn't place people with actual life threatening injuries in baja, in peril."

Link:
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=8182#pid60169

Thats a quote from me when Jeans first posted about her moms evac. When was that 2002? I can't access the link, someone sent it to me. You make the decision.

[Edited on 10-8-2007 by Minnow]

roundtuit - 8-10-2007 at 08:24 AM

this is mrs roundtuit. didnt mean to start a verbal war but i found out that i recently had a heart attack and wanted to know if i could get out of mexico with medvac or some other means, i dont want to stop coming to baja just because something might happen but also want to cyma. we do not have medical insurance and am not quite old enough for medicare. guess i will just take my chances and if something happens leave me in baja and have a hell of a party!!

CaboRon - 8-10-2007 at 01:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Minnow
"I'm wondering if this whole incident doesn't place people with actual life threatening injuries in baja, in peril."

Link:
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=8182#pid60169

Thats a quote from me when Jeans first posted about her moms evac. When was that 2002? I can't access the link, someone sent it to me. You make the decision.

[Edited on 10-8-2007 by Minnow]


Minnow, the link doesn't link ....... CAboRon

Evacuation Insurance

bajaguy - 8-10-2007 at 01:49 PM

My health insurance policy has a clause hidden in the fine print that indicates we are covered by a program called MedEx. Plan includes evacuation by the most expedient means, will allow family to accompany victim, provides for vehicle and pet evacuation (at a "small" cost). Does not need Doctor or hospital approval or referral, and is good for services if incident is over 100 miles from home of record, foreign countries included, to nearest US medical facility.

I would suggest Nomads check their medical plans or call their medical insurance provider to see if they might have similar coverage.



[Edited on 8-10-2007 by bajaguy]

wilderone - 8-10-2007 at 02:04 PM

"Plan includes evacuation by the most expedient means,"
The problem is that the means are so limited, you don't know what the means are, and therefore, who or how to contact them, or what their response will be (timely or not). Paying for it is secondary. So along with that insurance policy, you need to do your homework and be prepared with all the names and numbers, hours of operation, contingencies.

Yup

bajaguy - 8-10-2007 at 02:07 PM

Done in advance

http://www.standard.com/eforms/9537.pdf



[Edited on 8-10-2007 by bajaguy]

DENNIS - 8-10-2007 at 02:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaboRon
Minnow, the link doesn't link ....... CAboRon

Is it in OFF TOPIC? I can't get to it either.

mtgoat666 - 8-10-2007 at 02:22 PM

when i worked overseas, my contract required my employer to provide me with insurance that would med-evac me back to US for just about anything, from broken leg to hang nail (well probably not for a hang nail). i wouldn't work overseas without a similar insurance policy. you can get these, and don't cost too much, unless you are doing risky things. don't get the weak ins policies that state "expedient transport." get policy that says chartered jet for all transport, otherwise you will fly home with broken leg via coach commercial air with festival seating!

Expedient???

bajaguy - 8-10-2007 at 02:24 PM

When I broke my ankle in Baja, my wife drove me back to Carson City. I wanted air evac....she was the "expedient" means.......

Minnow - 8-10-2007 at 03:12 PM

I didn't want to say who sent it to me, but I am sure you know who it was by now. Weird that the thread is locked.

fishbuck - 8-10-2007 at 05:23 PM

A couple weeks ago I bought GNP insurance for my truck. The have a supplemental policy called "Traveler's Gold"
It includes an air medevac provision but after I read all the exclusions I decided it was actually worthless.
Maybe I was wrong but I decided not to spend the extra money.
I do want to buy an insurance pollicy that provides airlift but am not sure which one is good.
It seems fairly obvious that they will only pick you up during daylight hours on a paved runway though.
Possibly Loreto, La Paz and Cabo a night.
There is also an organization called Angel Flight who might be able to help at more remote locations but I don't know much about them.
Anybody know a good aeromedevac insurance that will come through whe needed?

Roberto - 8-10-2007 at 05:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Minnow
I didn't want to say who sent it to me, but I am sure you know who it was by now. Weird that the thread is locked.


I know - it was M, right? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

fishbuck - 8-10-2007 at 10:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by fishbuck
A couple weeks ago I bought GNP insurance for my truck. The have a supplemental policy called "Traveler's Gold"
It includes an air medevac provision but after I read all the exclusions I decided it was actually worthless.
Maybe I was wrong but I decided not to spend the extra money.
I do want to buy an insurance pollicy that provides airlift but am not sure which one is good.
It seems fairly obvious that they will only pick you up during daylight hours on a paved runway though.
Possibly Loreto, La Paz and Cabo a night.
There is also an organization called Angel Flight who might be able to help at more remote locations but I don't know much about them.
Anybody know a good aeromedevac insurance that will come through whe needed?

Bumping my question back to the top!

craiggers - 8-11-2007 at 03:22 AM

Day or night , hot or cold I would think the patient would have to be stabilized before any air ambulance would transport them. They are there to get you back home so that the proper "repairs" can be made to speed the recovery after the patent is stable. They are not there to wisk you to a trauma center to save your life. There just isn't enough time for that. From the stretch around BOLA it would be better off to drive the patient back to Ensenada or San Quintin or continue going down to Guerro Negro for stabilization as opposed to waiting for a plane to show up to take me back to the States. The only exception would be if I knew where there was an airplane on the ground near me and there was someone around to fly it. Baja is a remote part of a third world country and thats all there is to it. You go there and you take your chances.

[Edited on 8-11-2007 by craiggers]

edm1 - 8-12-2007 at 05:10 PM

Just a lurker in this thread, but finding this thread interesting.

Air evac and landing strips (and night landing/takeoff lighting) are being discussed. I'm thinking aren't helicopters allowed in the paradise called Baja?

capt. mike - 8-13-2007 at 07:07 AM

too slow, too expensive for what they can do on a per hour basis, not enough room for a flight med staff to accompany which all the legit medicharters require on staff each flight.

the only choppers that would work are the military types set up for it - no comm'l outfits have them, or need them - they can do the mission with converted biz jets and make plenty of $$.

Last April i was in mulege much of the month. a friend asked me to fly a local retiree to la paz, he was having heart problems and Dr. said get to la paz ASAP! Dr. was told i would fly him, Dr. said no, patient needed pressurization - i said no problem - i'll fly the deck all the way - still said no, patient needed full med staff and nurse on board - have to send jet from la paz - cost was $17,000 USA and patient had to pay in advance! He could have made the flight fine with me, many suspected a scam with Dr. getting a fee to recruit the mexican medivac co.
Jet landed at closest paved to mulege, Palo Verde 30 miles north, a military based strip. It was a daylight ops too.

Day after this patient was discharged from la paz hospital, told to go to USA for more tests, likely Arythmia and tachycardia and needs ablation surgery. So i go get him, he's fine but out $17,000 plus!! Had no insurance to cover this. He should have told the Dr. in mulege to pound sand - but at the time he was confused and thot might be dead soon.
all around a bad deal.

David K - 1-29-2010 at 05:24 PM

Bump