BajaNomad - Driving the beach in Baja

Driving the beach in Baja

Sharksbaja - 8-15-2007 at 08:47 PM

Ok, this IS a controversial subject. It would be a lie if I said I don't because I do. There is an area of beach that rejuvenates itself with the tides, hence no damage.
With that said I must remark that the beach in some places IS the road. Why would it be illegal to ply those disappearing tracks.
One particular afternoon I took the dog for his run along the beach. I was parallel and in some deep tire ruts with 60 lbs in the tires. I was thinking...."what if there were no tracks all over the beach to keep me from falling into them". No prob just go faster. The next day the beach had been erased. It's a whole lotta fun and being aware and conscientious of other people I make xtra wide berths or slow way down..
How many are opposed to thoughtful travel on the shores of Baja. I would like to iterrate to include all types of vehicles not just trucks and 4bys. Quite frankly though from what I've seen, it's mostly quads that leave the most scars. I have found it disappointing to hike in somewhere just to see the quads have already been there.

I have mixed feelings.

Beachtravel.jpg - 31kB

surfer jim - 8-15-2007 at 10:03 PM

You are asking for trouble here..... :spingrin:

What's that song?...."Who let the dogs out"....better run ...NOW!

Correct answer....It is OK to drive beach if nobody there.....

Sharksbaja - 8-15-2007 at 10:08 PM

So..... aren't I always. :lol:

Drivers correct!

The Sculpin - 8-15-2007 at 10:22 PM

I have no problem driving on thebeach. In some instances, it's clearly the preferred alternative. Unfortunately, the more people around doing this, the more difficult it is to continue - no matter how thoughtful you are, cuz there's always some idiot who isn't - and that idiot is most likely a gringo - with a big truck or a high powered rail - and is from orange county - hey, I'm not profiling or anything...

Bob and Susan - 8-16-2007 at 05:31 AM

just last week i asked a Profepa lawyer if it was legal to drive on the beach...

he said it was illegal to drive on the beaches but...

Profepa was not staffed with enough people to enforce the law...

maybe later....

walking is OK :spingrin:

CaboRon - 8-16-2007 at 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
just last week i asked a Profepa lawyer if it was legal to drive on the beach...

he said it was illegal to drive on the beaches but...

Profepa was not staffed with enough people to enforce the law...

maybe later....

walking is OK :spingrin:

Walking is Nice. :bounce:

- CaboRon

4baja - 8-16-2007 at 06:36 AM

heres my two cents. i have been driveing the beaches for 25 years down there and it has never been a problem with the mexicans, only the gringos do once they have built there big homes on the bluffs and dont want to see anybody on (there )beutifull beach. i have allso been told by those same gringos that they didnt like dogs on the beach, thats when i just give them the finger. quads are less destructive then heavy trucks as they only penetrate the sand very little and as sharks says the tide will remove all prints. i try not to drive on the beach now if theres gringos around but out in the middle of nowere you bet. see you on the beach. :bounce:

Crusoe - 8-16-2007 at 07:20 AM

Good subject......and this will appeal to all different type of people. And...all sorts of people will defend what their particular opinion is. But.... sorry boys and girls....... driving a vehicle on the beach is an extreemly destructive act. This becomes very complicated and each beach is different and has many different geologic features.Living organisms. Amount and depth of sand ,rocks, shells and clay, etc.,etc. Beaches are a constantly changing landscape/seascape just like the clouds and sky. Wind and sea conditions are the most dominating forces.The size and location of the beach makes the biggest difference. Some of the large Pacific coast beaches can absorb alot more human impact than the much more fragile Sea Of Cortez side. After spending years and years searching out and camping on alot of remote Baja beaches and watching the change that is coming with mass people migration to Baja in the last 15 years one can only conclude that the Mexican Govt. will have to start enforcing some laws to help keep people from driving on their pristine braches.There needs to be specific vehicle friendly driving areas, for those who choose this type of recreation.Then start a permitting system for fisherman for launching etc. etc.. and force it with a will. From heavy vehicle traffic ( sand rails, quads and 4x4s and dirt bikes)in some of the more populated areas such as the Cabo area and around Los Barriles I have wittnessed a pristine sand beach turn into hard pan dirt freeway from excessive vehicle traffic and listened to hundreds of dissatisfied beach front home owners rag on and on about the noise exhaust smell etc, etc.. It will take years and years if ever.... for these beaches to return to their natural state.Usually the summer huricanes and winter wind forces do a good job of shoreline rejuvination. Mankind does not!! Silence is getting to be a rare commodity these days and people that have loud vehicles that are roaring up and down the beaches for fun should have their own specific areas they can destroy for themselves, and need to learn to respect the rights of others and the small living things they are driving over and crushing and not even realizing it. The State of California formed a Coastal Commission, and I believe it was in the 1930s, just to protect what they had. Thank God!!!!!!! Thats my 3 cents Thanks. ++C++

Osprey - 8-16-2007 at 07:35 AM

Sharks, right now the moon/tides must be just right on our beaches for the turtles. Signs of turtles laying eggs are everywhere. They sniff the sand as they crawl higher and higher to find a place above the high water mark so their nests will be dry for the incubation period. Some do this on the berms between big pools of brackish water at the ends of long arroyos. In any case the turtle huggers say vehicle tracks can and do trap the tiny hatchlings keeping them from reaching the water. Beach drivers say they stay "on the wet" and leave no tracks. Hurricanes all over the globe kill millions of eggs/hatchlings -- the mother turtles cannot know about the danger of the pools or the hurricanes. They are stuck with the consistancy of the sand, the salt/smell test. I think the conservationists have a hard time proving how much damage vehicles do to the hatch but I understand their zeal at trying to do all they can to help the hatch. For me personally, I don't want to get a ticket but when/if I have to drive on the beach I try to stay in the wet. Lots of sides to the thing -- for example we hardly see any flyguys around on their quads anymore -- they were all catch and release people and many do what they can to help turtle conservators. Might be a very enlightening thread if people will be fair and candid, leave the rancor for the Off Topic.

Cypress - 8-16-2007 at 07:46 AM

Quads just make it easy for lazy people to be where they don't need to be in the first place.

The last time I drove one of 'em it caught on fire.

Minnow - 8-16-2007 at 08:01 AM

Being a motorcycle person I don't think much of the quad crowd. They always seem to be the ones the are challenged by balance and bad decisions. I do my fair share of off road travel in Baja and try to obey the law when I do. I generally don't think it is a problem to drive on most beaches, however, in the wrong hands a quad can be quite destructive. Especially since most of them seem as though they have nothing better to do, than well. act destructive. They are like jet skiis. They don't seem to have anywhere to go but in circles. :?:

Shame on You

CaboRon - 8-16-2007 at 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress

Quads just make it easy for lazy people to be where they don't need to be in the first place.

The last time I drove one of 'em it caught on fire.

I couldn't agree more....

Shame on you for showing no concern for the extreemly fraglie beaches .... and for your information ... quads and other vehicles are also extremly destructive to desert areas.

Gaia is a living breathing entity .... let's all protect and nourish her ......

- CaboRon

[Edited on 8-16-2007 by CaboRon]

oldhippie - 8-16-2007 at 08:14 AM

Last Sunday my wife and I were walking the beach here in TJ in the early morning. Two guys in an old Ford Bronco were buzzing the beach and as they got close to us did a series of doughnuts. I gave them a round of applause. As they drove off a pistol came out the window and three shots were fired in the air, then the empty cane alcohol plastic bottles were thrown on the beach.

Oh Mexico, I've never really been there but I'd sure like to go. Oh Mexico.

mtgoat666 - 8-16-2007 at 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
There is an area of beach that rejuvenates itself with the tides, hence no damage.
I have found it disappointing to hike in somewhere just to see the quads have already been there.

I have mixed feelings.

The creatures that live on the beaches may find it dissappointing too, as the wheeels crush them. The walkers on the beach may find it dissapoointing to find vehicles wrecking the solitude.

Russ - 8-16-2007 at 08:57 AM

4Baja, I also like to surf fish and there a a lot of beaches to explore here. today. Out on the dirt roads I found my poles stay far cleaner mounted in front. Yes, I too get pi$$ed of at the ATVs and others that ripe up the beaches and desert. "Tread Lightly"

Quad @SM.jpg - 43kB

David K - 8-16-2007 at 09:03 AM

Footprints can go deeper than tires tracks... better not walk on the beach either!

gnukid - 8-16-2007 at 09:05 AM

I think that in some cases a street is required close to the water since no other passage exists, and in those cases one might legally drive on the beach unless other passage exists. But one should consider the issue of of destruction seriously.

I have been converted to a non-beach driver after many lessons from Mexicans albeit beautiful women, who taught me simply by sitting down and watching the sand and shore for hours until you begin to see the massive amount of life. And I've seen turtles laying eggs under cars even! Thats when I found myself asking the guy whose been driving the quad on the beach for 25 years to take it up the beach away from the shore.

Those who might, please don't try to sideline this topic as gringos versus mexicans as that is not a relevant point to the subject.

Osprey - 8-16-2007 at 09:21 AM

Moving the vehicles up the beach, away from the shore line is trickier than it sounds. How high is high enough? Where will the mama turtle no longer smell the salt from the highest tide? Was the high tide on that beach thrown way, way up by big waves? How has the beach changed in the last 60 to 90 days (the incubation period)? Do quad tires crush eggs? Anybody know for sure?

CaboRon - 8-16-2007 at 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Footprints can go deeper than tires tracks... better not walk on the beach either!

Simply walk gently on the earth and observe the life that

surrounds you.... :cool:

- CaboRon

CaboRon - 8-16-2007 at 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
Moving the vehicles up the beach, away from the shore line is trickier than it sounds. How high is high enough? Where will the mama turtle no longer smell the salt from the highest tide? Was the high tide on that beach thrown way, way up by big waves? How has the beach changed in the last 60 to 90 days (the incubation period)? Do quad tires crush eggs? Anybody know for sure?

If you don't know where they are.... do not enter their

nesting area ..... it is their beach .... not ours.

-CaboRon

Osprey - 8-16-2007 at 09:57 AM

Some would argue that it's not their beach. That the turtles are the interlopers, littering the beach with shells. Why can't they lay their eggs in trees like the wood ducks? This issue is tough because neither side has space for wiggle room. Mama turtles don't like beaches where they are totally blinded by lights when they emerge from the water. There will undoubtably be many more lights on all the world's beaches so pretty soon we'll all know where the mama's are -- on tiny little crowded, unlighted beaches.

CaboRon - 8-16-2007 at 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
Some would argue that it's not their beach. That the turtles are the interlopers, littering the beach with shells. Why can't they lay their eggs in trees like the wood ducks? This issue is tough because neither side has space for wiggle room. Mama turtles don't like beaches where they are totally blinded by lights when they emerge from the water. There will undoubtably be many more lights on all the world's beaches so pretty soon we'll all know where the mama's are -- on tiny little crowded, unlighted beaches.

Osprey,

I have no doubt the sea turtles are doomed !

In fact it is so bad now I will probably choose another planet for my next reincarnation. Glad I don't have any children that will have to face this rapidly growing destruction of our globe.

- CaboRon

[Edited on 8-16-2007 by CaboRon]

gnukid - 8-16-2007 at 10:06 AM

Turtle nests are dug about 18-24 inches down and covered again in sand. It isn't always that drivers crush eggs, the vehicles compress the sand and make it impossible for the newly born to exit digging up through the soft sand.

Sand compression causes severe damage to the ecosystem since hatchlings of many species can not escape/pass the compressed area.

It's really worth a visit to the many turtle camps now found along the more crowded areas. Normally during egg laying seasons, volunteers go out all night and look for turtles laying eggs, they collect the eggs and put them in a protected space and ensure assistance when they eggs hatch about 41 days later. The baby turtles will either be assisted or on their own they will attempt to enter the water at about 5pm-sunset.

You can go an visit most camps and help, just head there before sunset. Its really an amazing story, turtles travel huge distances and must return to the location where they were born to lay eggs. If a nesting area is consistently destroyed the family will cease to exist.

In Todos Santos/Pescadero by the Pemex on the hiway, Griselda is doing an amazing job with a turtle camp. In La Ventana/Turkesa a group is working, along with a Biologist named Macarena, they have a camp there too.

capn.sharky - 8-16-2007 at 10:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 4baja...they didnt like dogs on the beach...

Yep, there is definately a trend here. No dogs, no tracks, no nothing. Lots of Greenies from Oregon and Washington on this board. How about no Mexicans cluttering up the beaches in Baja too. I don't exactly know what a turtle nest looks like, but in over 50 years of going to Baja, I have never seen one. Why can't those gringos (oops sorry) on the hill leave their laws and rules at home and not bring them to Baja. I clean up when I leave the beach. Hey, what about no smoking on the beaches. I love the beaches in Baja but some of the son of the beaches should stay home in the U. S. There, now I feel much better, thank you.

Minnow - 8-16-2007 at 10:20 AM

Turtles don't nest on 99% of the beaches in Baja. Grunion don't seem to be endangered. How many meters do you two feel all off road vehicles should remain back from all beaches? :lol:

Beachin Boogie

MrBillM - 8-16-2007 at 10:21 AM

I've been driving various vehicles on the Beach in Baja since the mid-60s until just two days ago and I will continue to do do for as long as I can without running afoul of the law. My average speed on any given beach is usually around 5 mph regardless of vehicle used. Rather than a recreational pursuit, it is usually a utilitarian activity associated with swimming, fishing or boating.

The current problem is two-fold. First and foremost is TDMP (too damned many people). The second problem is all of the Assheads that drive the beach without regard for anyone or anything. Wait, on second thought, they DO have some regard for others. If there are others on the Beach, they usually go out of their way to be more annoying. They're usually the same A-Head bunch that fire off huge fireworks in the middle of camp. Those people deserve the worst pain and death fate can bestow. Nothing will ever change their behavior, so their prompt dispatch is the only hope.

[Edited on 8-16-2007 by MrBillM]

Russ - 8-16-2007 at 10:40 AM

I appoint Mr. Bill as "Baja's A-Head Terminator Project Control Director" :lol:

Al G - 8-16-2007 at 10:55 AM

heres my two cents. i have been driveing the beaches for 25 years down there and it has never been a problem with the mexicans, only the gringos do once they have built there big homes on the bluffs and dont want to see anybody on (there )beutifull beach. i have allso been told by those same gringos that they didnt like dogs on the beach, thats when i just give them the finger. quads are less destructive then heavy trucks as they only penetrate the sand very little and as sharks says the tide will remove all prints. i try not to drive on the beach now if theres gringos around but out in the middle of nowere you bet. see you on the beach.

4BAJA...Just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate that photo...That is what Baja is about.
I have some opinions about the use of beaches in Baja...Most gringos will not like them, but I will make my point anyway.
I will not dwell on Beach front owners, as they hold the lowest position of beach life...with their Beach grab attempts...about the level of a snake belly. We all need to join forces...they will be the hardest to slap down... Yeah..Yeah, I can hear them now...go ahead and rant...won't do you any good.
The second group presents the most danger and destructive power...plain idiots on quads and sand rails...will not be lumped together with people who lack respect for everything except for their own silliness. The answer is simple...when caught doing sea-do maneuvers on the beach...take their bikes...sell or use in enforcement. Dangerous speeds in a populated area (max limit in the 15mph area) should be a hefty ticket...$500 dollars first offense and double after...1000...2000...believe me you won't need a lot of enforcement. Private enterprise is the way to go...with motion camera/radar to prove the offense of course...Plus with private citizens recording you actives to turn you in...well this world still has real idiots, but that is how it is funded.
I do not believe in riding in sensitive areas...as long as they really are sensitive...remember the beach owner wanta be...
I am all for turtle hugging...we all knowing the season and areas affected...I will not ride then and there...that is little to ask. I will offer that time to help with the protection....

Silence is getting to be a rare commodity these days and people that have loud vehicles that are roaring up and down the beaches for fun should have their own specific areas they can destroy for themselves, and need to learn to respect the rights of others

Well...I agree to an extent as long as this area is not on the beach...there is no reason to be on a beach to be stupid. Silencers should be used on all vehicles....the rest of what you had to say is your opinion and I do not support it. Be careful claiming YOUR RIGHTS....they may not be your.

Quads just make it easy for lazy people to be where they don't need to be in the first place.

You do not have the right to say where someone should be or how they got there...your opinions seldom make sense, but you are entitle to it none the less...think it over...it may change.

I think it is important to remember most people have been coming to Baja to fish and surf...when the urbanites show up they want to change everything...go ahead, be prepared for a great deal of resistance...
Also a fishing license should also be a permit (fee paid to protect the environment)to get to the fishing areas....fishing equipment on the bike is also necessary.... :lol:

The last thing I want to point out is weight...loaded campers are in the 2-3 ton range...there is no way they do not compact the beach...they should not be denied access to the beach...driving down/up the beach should be limited...and I think this type of people have enough common sense not to be destructive.
quads are 400-700 lbs...on 10” wide tires @ 4-5 psi...no way they could impact anything...if driven with respect.

If there is some realistic reason you do not think this will work ie...you want the beach to yourself...let us discuss it. Wanta be BEACH owners are not invited...

The Sculpin - 8-16-2007 at 11:31 AM

Similar argueents can be made for driving on the inland dirt roads. The fact remains that baja has more unpaved roads than paved roads (duh) and people in baja are very accustomed to driving on dirt roads. To block off a beach road solely because it is a beach road is ludicrous. Why not block off the road that gose straight up the arroyo! I'm sure there's similar ecological and environmental damage being done there.

Baja is getting more crowded. Years, decades ago, the typical baja traveler was adventursome, independent, and a practical environmentalist / conservationalist. It was a philosophy borne of necessity. Today, flights are fast and cheap, rental cars are plenty, roads are good, lodging is abundent, and lots of young'uns feel the need to recreate the baja 1000 every chance they get - ergo - there are more idiots in baja.

Yes, the turtles are doomed, as is the typical baja way of life. Have you seen the shantytown just outside Cabo? Have you seen the growth east of San Jose del Cabo? All these people, as well as all the tourists, want to use the beach. Bye bye turtles! Bye bye fishies!

I came to this conclusion back in the '90's. This is why I'm a curmudgeon, and will move my campsite if someone comes within 100 yards of me.

Have I told you about the islands off Papua New Guinea? Man, talk about seclusion! It's a little tough on the 4x4 though......

Al G - 8-16-2007 at 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Sculpin

Yes, the turtles are doomed, as is the typical baja way of life. Have you seen the shantytown just outside Cabo? Have you seen the growth east of San Jose del Cabo? All these people, as well as all the tourists, want to use the beach. Bye bye turtles! Bye bye fishies!

I came to this conclusion back in the '90's. This is why I'm a curmudgeon, and will move my campsite if someone comes within 100 yards of me.

Have I told you about the islands off Papua New Guinea? Man, talk about seclusion! It's a little tough on the 4x4 though......

How right you are...this is why the purist live in a world of misery...if they open their eyes they could see the "impossibility" of their position...the need to join the middle road of compormize...Baja will survive for a much greater time. The need for forward thinking and controls is now...

The Sculpin - 8-16-2007 at 12:03 PM

I agree with you, Al G (you know, when you say it fast it sounds like algea - you're not slimy and green, are you? ok, jk), and my eayes are wide open, but it is for others to do the heavy lifting. I keep going back down, but it becomes less and less enjoyable. I know, it's my problem, but so be it.

Cypress - 8-16-2007 at 12:23 PM

Jeez. I can run and roam all over this planet, the turtles only need a little beach here and there. :yes:

Give 'em a little space to lay their eggs.

Al G - 8-16-2007 at 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Jeez. I can run and roam all over this planet, the turtles only need a little beach here and there. :yes:

Give 'em a little space to lay their eggs.

Hummm...you really need to slow down and read what I posted....count me as a turtle hugger. Now your are saying people can go where ever and How ever... :?:

Quads just make it easy for lazy people to be where they don't need to be in the first place.

Russ - 8-16-2007 at 12:42 PM

Sorry guys, I'm not going to count the turtles out just yet. I think Mexico is going through a period of educating people. I have seen netters taking as many turtles as the could. I've seen locals camp out in nesting areas waiting for the turtles to drop their eggs and then turn them over, steal the eggs and wait in hiding for the next one. That's on one beach and it has been happening for generations. I haven't noticed it in 3 or 4 years. Doesn't mean it isn't going on though. We've even had successful hatches in front of our waterfront homes. and that IS exciting! There is hope. I hope.

Cypress - 8-16-2007 at 12:45 PM

Russ,

Hope is a good thing.

Hope for the Turtles

MrBillM - 8-16-2007 at 12:51 PM

We ALL want to see them survive.

They are Delicious.

Cypress - 8-16-2007 at 01:00 PM

Al G, I don't put you in any catagory.

My opinion? Everybody has one. You're a Nomad. Hang tuff. Those quads are like remote TV channel selectors. You don't have to get off your butt to go to a new location. :spingrin:

Too easy.

Sharksbaja - 8-16-2007 at 01:14 PM

Let me weigh in a bit more. Turtles are perhaps the most important aspect for preserving beaches. It is obvious that egg hunters are their major enemy once on the beach. I understand that turtles return to the same areas year after year and these areas are known to many. I would like to hear more about their nesting locations. I would be interested to know how many are sighted(nesting) in and around the Bay of Concepcion.
Can anyone really document or otherwise show or prove that occasional beach travel actually damages the nesting sites. It's mentioned that compaction represents a problem for emerging hatchlings. I'd like to hear more qualitative info on that evaluation. Is it really a problem or is this an educated assumption? I know turtles are pretty stupid because they always return to areas where they have been in harms way before. Many other animals will stop using areas for breeding etc. where human activity disrupts their cycle. Can someone say that turtles pose a problem for drivers on any or all beaches? I've seen a couple large turtles that had come ashore to die but I did not see evidence of egg laying in the area. If eggs are layed at the depths mentioned. I tend to believe they most likely would not be harmed by an ordinary vehicle crusing by. Hoards of traffic is another story.

Crusoe - 8-16-2007 at 01:15 PM

The bottom line is a simple choice..... Each one of us has an obligation to do the right thing in regards to respecting the zone where sea meets the land. Its a very spiritual place to watch an enjoy. All the inneraction of every living creaturethat depends on it. The birds and the fish and the turtles and the butterflys and all the flora.Thats why we as hukan biengs want to be their in the first place. Just a nice spot to hang out in. We need to pass this on so our grandchildren can also have a sense of how immense and beautiful our Oceans and beaches are in their unatural and unpolluted state. ++C++

Al G - 8-16-2007 at 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Russ
Sorry guys, I'm not going to count the turtles out just yet. I think Mexico is going through a period of educating people. I have seen netters taking as many turtles as the could. I've seen locals camp out in nesting areas waiting for the turtles to drop their eggs and then turn them over, steal the eggs and wait in hiding for the next one. That's on one beach and it has been happening for generations. I haven't noticed it in 3 or 4 years. Doesn't mean it isn't going on though. We've even had successful hatches in front of our waterfront homes. and that IS exciting! There is hope. I hope.

No one is counting the turtles out...but you would accomplish a great deal more if you realized most that become turtle huggers are beach front owners. They want to save the turtle...but their real agenda is to own the beach...if the fishermen were heavily involved you would get much better results...do you think the beach front grabbers want us involved??? :lol:

NOT...they do not want anyone on the beach year around...Turtles are their excuse. first thing to do is license beach fishermen...OPPs beach grabbers won't like that...it would give fishermen a reason and right to be on the beach...they sure don't want that.
I know all this sounds a little over board, but if you do not look at the possibilities you will not find the answers you need....
Also I do not think the Mexican fishermen need to be licensed...they should not be...they do and should be required to have a permit to have their quad on the beach and receive the same fines for being idiots...

CaboRon - 8-16-2007 at 01:29 PM

Al G,

Am I mistaken or do you not have a beach house in Las Tunis ? :?:

I am a " turtle hugger " from california and I don't live on the beach .

Furthermore, I believe " turtle huggers " have something to contribute to the Nomads .... do we all have to share the same ideals in order to be a Baja Nomad ? :?:

Are people of the earth not allowed to be Baja Nomads ? :?:

You should welcome us, and celebrate the diviserty that is humankind.

Sign me ,

just a tree (oops), a turtle hugger,

- CaboRon :bounce:

I know as you travel through Todos Santos you witness the greed and waste of many gringos that have set up their little clicks there. And I know they want TS to be their private enclave.

[Edited on 8-16-2007 by CaboRon]

Al G - 8-16-2007 at 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
Al G,

Am I mistaken or do you not have a beach house in Las Tunis ? :?:

Are people of the earth not allowed to be Baja Nomads ? :?:

You should welcome us, and celebrate the diviserty that is humankind.

Sign me ,

just a tree (oops), a turtle hugger,

- CaboRon :bounce:

You are right on all points except the first...but will be trying hard this year to buy "near" the beach. Keep getting cold feet...I am not rich and it will deplete my resourses on a major scale...to bad I did not act 5 years ago.

Al G - 8-16-2007 at 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
Al G,

Am I mistaken or do you not have a beach house in Las Tunis ? :?:

Are people of the earth not allowed to be Baja Nomads ? :?:

You should welcome us, and celebrate the diviserty that is humankind.

Sign me ,

just a tree (oops), a turtle hugger,

- CaboRon :bounce:

Opps.. I should have read your post more careful...
diviserty is what Nomads are about...listening is important to learning...I have learned a lot here and always will...hope the street goes both ways.

Al G - 8-16-2007 at 01:58 PM

Interesting read...seems far more effective effort then Todos Santos effort to keep quads off the beach...
http://currents.ucsc.edu/05-06/01-23/sea_turtles.asp

tripledigitken - 8-16-2007 at 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G

I will not dwell on Beach front owners, as they hold the lowest position of beach life...with their Beach grab attempts...
I am all for turtle hugging...we all knowing the season and areas affected...I will not ride then and there...that is little to ask. I will offer that time to help with the protection....

Al G,

If you arn't a beach front owner, can you honestly say you wouldn't want to be one? And if not why not? I know that since the first time I camped on the beach in baja I have dreamed of having a place of my own on the beach. Are there some A-wipes that own on the beach of course there are, hell I live in So Cal don't need to tell me that. But all arn't!

Your position on the turtles I couldn't agree with you more on. Why don't you tell all of us the time of the nesting season so those that care will stay off the beach.

When I get my house built, looking a little further out in view of recent economic issues, I would love to offer you an adult beverage.

Saludos,

Ken

I apologize for the Ital font.

[Edited on 8-16-2007 by tripledigitken]

Al G - 8-16-2007 at 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken

Quote:

First Ken, I know not all...infact I believe most are not as bad, as the picture I paint. I am trying to open the eyes of the many, to the efforts of the few...and the deception they work under.
It is all common sense...just think WHY???
I would love to own beach front...sadly I may be to late to the dinner table... :lol:

I do not know the exact dates...it goes on now and about 2 month long...but don't quote me. I will guess July through August... :?:

Look forward to Pacifico time with you :cool:

CaboRon - 8-16-2007 at 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G
Interesting read...seems far more effective effort then Todos Santos effort to keep quads off the beach...
http://currents.ucsc.edu/05-06/01-23/sea_turtles.asp

Al G,

Thanks for the link... it seems that thorugh (sic: where is the spell checker anyway) tracking and research are neccesary preparation for effective action in any conservation effort .

- CaboRon

Well, this is interesting!

Sharksbaja - 8-16-2007 at 02:36 PM

Strange the same folks(turtle huggers) who protest ATVs use them for protecting tutles. :?:

"Learn about these amazing creatures that date back to the time of the dinosaurs, but are now endangered. Around midnight, we will patrol the beach on 4-wheel ATV's and on foot. If we are lucky enough to find a nesting turtle, we will wait for her to lay her eggs, then transport and bury the eggs in our fenced-in nursery, where they will remain safe from predators."
Source:http://www.bajabeyond.com/turtles.html

The Olive Ridley is the most abundant of all of the species of sea turtle. They use the beaches in Baja California Sur and the state of Sinaloa for reproduction, and frequent the bays and estuaries of the region for feeding. Olive Ridley nesting beaches are regularly destroyed by poachers and ATV’s driving down nesting beaches.
Source: Propenninsula.org

Sea Turtles Come Out Ahead
Sea turtles and the volunteers who look for their nests on Flagler County beaches every morning won a victory Monday when a judge ruled that a beach-driving ban enacted to protect the turtles shouldn't prohibit volunteers with the same goal from using ATVs. Flagler County Judge Sharon B. Atack acquitted a Turtle Patrol volunteer of violating the county's beach-driving ban, ruling that other state and federal laws aimed at protecting the reptiles have given their blessing to the use of all-terrain vehicles by specially trained turtle volunteers. Her ruling clears 53-year-old volunteer Denis Cody of a traffic ticket, but members of the turtle group are waiting for a written copy of the judge's ruling before they'll drive on the disputed 11 miles of beach. Source: South Florida Sun-Sentinel, 6 June 2006.

CaboRon - 8-16-2007 at 02:45 PM

Sharksbaja,

What can I say .... Sounds rediculous to me too ....

- CaboRon

Minnow - 8-16-2007 at 02:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Strange the same folks(turtle huggers) who protest ATVs use them for protecting tutles.

I don't think it is strange at all. In the right hands ATV's are a valuable tool for many forms of work. Sadly, the same ATV's the the egg huggers use to protect the species are probably used by the same egg heads children to do donuts on the same beach.

Al somewhere between your 5th post on this thread and your 7th your meds must have kicked in because there is actually an air of compromise in your posts.

If you use Mozilla as your search engine is comes with a spell checker that underlines all misspelled words. It even works when typing posts on Nomad.

Al G - 8-16-2007 at 03:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Minnow

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Strange the same folks(turtle huggers) who protest ATVs use them for protecting tutles.

I don't think it is strange at all. In the right hands ATV's are a valuable tool for many forms of work. Sadly, the same ATV's the the egg huggers use to protect the species are probably used by the same egg heads children to do donuts on the same beach.

Al somewhere between your 5th post on this thread and your 7th your meds must have kicked in because there is actually an air of compromise in your posts.

If you use Mozilla as your search engine is comes with a spell checker that underlines all misspelled words. It even works when typing posts on Nomad.

Life is a compromise and so is my spellchecker...not sure if it is from China or India...mozilla is a compromise too...I would rather buy a good one if I could find one...

Sharksbaja - 8-16-2007 at 03:28 PM

I was using the law of Jerry. You can't have it both ways! Can you?

I think it's pretty obvious we can control ourselves. Who were those guys anyway?

Quote:
Originally posted by Minnow

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Strange the same folks(turtle huggers) who protest ATVs use them for protecting turtles.

I don't think it is strange at all. In the right hands ATV's are a valuable tool for many forms of work. Sadly, the same ATV's the the egg huggers use to protect the species are probably used by the same egg heads children to do donuts on the same beach.

Al somewhere between your 5th post on this thread and your 7th your meds must have kicked in because there is actually an air of compromise in your posts.

If you use Mozilla as your search engine is comes with a spell checker that underlines all misspelled words. It even works when typing posts on Nomad.

Interesting...visited 15 sites and not one is the same
Al G - 8-16-2007 at 04:08 PM

Dates...if you read between the lines you would concludes turtle season never ends....
Here is Todos Santos dates:

ASUPMATOMA A.C. IS FORMING A COMMUNITY-BASED GROUP IN TODOS SANTOS All ages and interests are invited to work with them during the olive ridley (golfina) and leatherback (laud) turtle seasons, September-March. The group will assist biologists in nocturnal patrols, in the egg nursery and in educational presentation in schools and local festivals. ASUPMATOMA A.C. is the region’s oldest and most successful turtle conservation group and has been working in the area for eleven years. We hope to increase local awareness about turtle conservation issues and practices. Todos Santos is still known as the largest supplier of illegally captured adult turtles and turtle eggs. Together we can make a difference!
I was there Jan-May and never seen any activity...I was looking and asking. As I read each conservation groups take...It could be up to 6 months long....41 days to hatch...depending on weather.

Russ - 8-16-2007 at 04:11 PM

Algae, alias Al G - Man you are hard on home owners with waterfront properties. I cooled a bit after you spoke of your wishes. I also started as a camper and then leased. And when I decided to buy I could afford it, Not now. ------ Here we have saved nests from the locals and I don't think any one that knows of a nest would share that info on line. We put up fencing around the sites and a few volunteers keep a close eye on the sites. If the site is too remote we'll clean up the turtle trails and nest areas. And it is usually the ATVs that find the sites.
Now, if anyone, really wants a high horse to ride to keep them off the streets I made a little slide show of a very destructive way of life that has absolutely no benefits for the locals or the area they rape. http://homepage.mac.com/russinbaja/iMovieTheater14.html
It is crude attempt at a video so please do trash me too badly.

Al G - 8-16-2007 at 04:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Strange the same folks(turtle huggers) who protest ATVs use them for protecting tutles.

Makes you wonder how many thousands they kill to save a few...I would think they wouldn't drive on the area...would not bet on it though.

Al G - 8-16-2007 at 04:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Russ
Algae, alias Al G - Man you are hard on home owners with waterfront properties. I cooled a bit after you spoke of your wishes. I also started as a camper and then leased. And when I decided to buy I could afford it, Not now. ------ Here we have saved nests from the locals and I don't think any one that knows of a nest would share that info on line. We put up fencing around the sites and a few volunteers keep a close eye on the sites. If the site is too remote we'll clean up the turtle trails and nest areas. And it is usually the ATVs that find the sites.
Now, if anyone, really wants a high horse to ride to keep them off the streets I made a little slide show of a very destructive way of life that has absolutely no benefits for the locals or the area they rape. http://homepage.mac.com/russinbaja/iMovieTheater14.html
It is crude attempt at a video so please do trash me too badly.

Thanks Russ...I thought it was well done. Problema...I have found Quicktime incompatible on PC. Don't know which one is the problem, but I won't stray from PC...20 min. to load quicktime and 20 min. to restore...it was still worth it, but only once. there are 100+ pc's to 1 mac...maybe you would consider publishing with MP??? Just a thought...

Edit: Regards..BajaAlgea

[Edited on 8-16-2007 by Al G]

CaboRon - 8-16-2007 at 05:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Al G

Quote:
Originally posted by Russ
Algae, alias Al G - Man you are hard on home owners with waterfront properties. I cooled a bit after you spoke of your wishes. I also started as a camper and then leased. And when I decided to buy I could afford it, Not now. ------ Here we have saved nests from the locals and I don't think any one that knows of a nest would share that info on line. We put up fencing around the sites and a few volunteers keep a close eye on the sites. If the site is too remote we'll clean up the turtle trails and nest areas. And it is usually the ATVs that find the sites.
Now, if anyone, really wants a high horse to ride to keep them off the streets I made a little slide show of a very destructive way of life that has absolutely no benefits for the locals or the area they rape. http://homepage.mac.com/russinbaja/iMovieTheater14.html
It is crude attempt at a video so please do trash me too badly.

Thanks Russ...I thought it was well done. Problema...I have found Quicktime incompatible on PC. Don't know which one is the problem, but I won't stray from PC...20 min. to load quicktime and 20 min. to restore...it was still worth it, but only once. there are 100+ pc's to 1 mac...maybe you would consider publishing with MP??? Just a thought...

Edit: Regards..BajaAlgea

[Edited on 8-16-2007 by Al G]

Yes,

I found the video and especially the soundtrack to be quite moving.

However, I agree with Al, get rid of quick time. I took almost four min. to load your video. And I generally achieve download speeds of close to six megabite per second, cable is the best.

Take care,

and keep making good videos,

CaboRon

Russ - 8-16-2007 at 06:37 PM

Thanks for the input. This Mac will flip into a PC so I'll see if I can figure it out. Now can your PC do dat? Probably don't want to huh? I think everyone is having a problem getting it and I think it may be a problem with dot mac service more than Quick Time. But glad to have the feed back from PC users and Quick Time.

CaboRon - 8-16-2007 at 06:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Russ
Thanks for the input. This Mac will flip into a PC so I'll see if I can figure it out. Now can your PC do dat? Probably don't want to huh? I think everyone is having a problem getting it and I think it may be a problem with dot mac service more than Quick Time. But glad to have the feed back from PC users and Quick Time.

Russ,

Don't mean to be rude ... but, I get the Mac rap from my brother in law all the time .... it is to a point where I cannot discuss anything about computers without the discussion becomming an ode to MacIntosh

And no, my PC cannot do backflips .... but it does run Vista, which is a platform I love.

Take Care,

CaboRon

bajalou - 8-16-2007 at 06:53 PM

Had no problems - I have a PC and am now on cable and it streamed the whole thing - no download delay.

[Edited on 8-17-2007 by bajalou]

Al G - 8-16-2007 at 07:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajalou
Had no problems - I have a PC and am now on cable and it streamed the whole thing - no download delay.

[Edited on 8-17-2007 by bajalou]

My post was poorly written...the events were not download speed concerns. It was the time to download...install...load and view one movie, then washing it out of my system by restoring to a earlier date. Mac products will not uninstall completly...the code if not totally remove it will mess with IE...The code could be in IE too. All I know is within a short time problems start developing...until I restore to an earlier date. I don't think Steve likes Bill. I think he is tired of being the ugly step child.

bajalou - 8-16-2007 at 08:27 PM

Well, I try to avoid using IE at almost all costs. I've had Quicktime for a long time and view a lot of stuff regularly with it with no resulting problems. Just lucky I guess.

Skamper - 8-16-2007 at 10:07 PM

A little late chiming in here...but the irony is just too good. The Mexican on the East Cape who taught me something about turtles was driving a quad on the beach and monitoring nests. He simply drove close to the water because the turtles generally nest above the highest tide line. I was stoked to help him release some hatchlings, but bummed about having to camp in the stinky arroyo between fenced-off gringo land grabs. Thanks for the low ground! I hope the ocean does rise three feet, then we'll all be able to get to the beach again!

Sorry for the late night negative diatribe: Sad that the same people who went to Baja to escape the ailments of overcrowded CA bring the same problems that they meant to escape. A lot of shore-nesting birds used to nest on the beaches of So Cal--even the few beaches that are rarely visited by people. The birds are mostly gone and it's not because people drive quads up and down the beaches!

jerry - 8-16-2007 at 11:39 PM

seems simple to me stop second guessing the laws of the land and obey them

Crusoe - 8-17-2007 at 06:38 AM

Skamper....Good post thank you. Thr primary reason most of the shorebirds do not nest anymore along alot of the beaches in So. Cal. is because the sea is to poluted and there feed is gone along with their fresh water supply. Just to many folks tramping on their terrritory. It is a shame!! ++C++

tripledigitken - 8-17-2007 at 08:12 AM

Russ,

No need to apologize for the slide show. Nice work on a depressing subject.

Maybe I should be rethinking bringing down a center consul fishing boat to Chivato in a few years, and replace it with a sail boat!

Ken

???
bajaguy - 8-18-2007 at 12:45 PM

Let me see if I understand this.............It's apparently against the law to drive a motorized vehicle on the beach in Mexico.

So the real question is ....why do we willfully and with knowledge of the law, break that law.....????

Is it because "everybody else does it", or maybe there is no enforcement of the law, or maybe because it's a foreign country and as an American I can do as I please, or........???

Would you do the same thing at Imperial Beach, or Huntington beach?????????, if no, why not????????

Just wondering and wandering.........

The Sculpin - 8-18-2007 at 01:42 PM

We break the law becuase we can!
We don't do this in IB because we would get caught.
Seems simple enough to me!

Sharksbaja - 8-18-2007 at 02:40 PM

Personally, I would like to know the wherebouts of nesting turtles and birds so I can avoid them. The conundrum here tho is the poaching factor. That is the real problem to turtles once on-shore. Also the huge numbers of turtles caught and/or killed by longliners makes them responsible for dwindling numbers.
I understand why many "off-roaders" won't chine in. Let's just say they are confused and prefer anonimity.

The practice of driving on Bajas beaches in not a gringo invention. I've seen perhaps hundreds of locals plying the beach. Many are there for their livelyhood. They are experts on the sand. They have made the beach a road in many hard-to-reach destinations. Shall they be denied tambien?
Thanks Russ for the info and opinion. How do you feel about those semi-permanent ol' timers down there on shell beach. I think traveling along a beach track would leave less a footprint than some motorhome camped on the beach for months at a time.

Cypress - 8-18-2007 at 03:20 PM

It's all about priorities. Decisions. Enforce the law or not? It's the same old story north of the border. Some laws are easy to enforce, some aren't.