BajaNomad - Worms,parasites and deformities in Bajas' fish

Worms,parasites and deformities in Bajas' fish

Sharksbaja - 8-23-2007 at 11:21 PM

Spurred by the ceviche and parasite thread I was thinking about all that fish that gets caught and consumed around Baja. Is there a greater likelyhood that species will have higher numbers of parasites and/or worms than say, So Cal? My experience shows few parasites from surf fishes. I have seen some odd deformities in Baja fish but these are most likely scar tissue.
The common notion says that warm water supports a greater number of animals than that of cold water regions. With that said can some of you quantify a large amount of bugs in fish flesh? Do u you see greater numbers of worms in halibut or tuna than we do here in the PNW? Thanx.

crap I posted this as a new thread :?:

sueno necessario:::::::

[Edited on 8-24-2007 by Sharksbaja]

Cypress - 8-24-2007 at 06:00 AM

Sharksbaja, Worms are very common in the flesh of some species of fish in the Northern Gulf of Mexico. Black drum and spotted weakfish have 'em, found usually in bays etc. The fish that stay in deeper offshore waters; snapper, grouper etc. normally don't.

DENNIS - 8-24-2007 at 06:30 AM

I'll bet all of this started from putting worms on a fish hook. Yep. No doubt about it.

Skipjack Joe - 8-24-2007 at 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja

The common notion says that warm water supports a greater number of animals than that of cold water regions.

If that's the common notion, than it's wrong.

There is a greater diversity of species in the tropics but the polar regions support a greater biomass of life. It's why all the large mammals make those long migrations every year to fill up on krill.

The second richest areas are the edges of continental shelves that experience upwhelling. Most of our great fisheries came from these regions.

The blue water around the equator (the doldrums) is some of the most barren on the planet.

Ken Bondy - 8-24-2007 at 07:44 AM

There is much more life in cold water than in warm water. Igor doesn't that at least partially have something to do with oxygen content?

++Ken++

Skipjack Joe - 8-24-2007 at 08:02 AM

I think that may be true Ken. A common belief was that trout were absent from warm waters due to the temperature. One of the exceptions was the Firehole river in Yellowstone. It comes out hot right out of the ground, has great insect life, and the trout thrive in the 80 degree water. Charles Brooks later showed that it had great oxygen content and was rich in minerals.

I think the richness in the polar regions has also to do with upwhelling. As I remember there are vertical currents in those regions caused by the melting of icebergs that cause surface water to sink and be replaced with mineral rich bottom water.

You've dived a lot Ken. Have you ever seen more luxuriant plant life than the Monterey Bay? I hear New Zealand is like that also.

Minnow - 8-24-2007 at 08:16 AM

The only fish I ever noticed having worms in it was a Halibut I caught in Santa Monica Bay. Yuck.

No trip report Joe? Shari says they had to run you out of Asuncion. Just Kidding. :lol:

Martyman - 8-24-2007 at 08:29 AM

I used to work for California Fish & Game right after college on the striped bass creel census. I would regularly see sores on the striped bass. I rarely, if ever, see sores on the fish I catch and see in baja. I also worked in the Bering Sea on a Korean fish processor and rarely saw unhealthy fish.
I always thought that it was due to more water contamination in higher population centers. In the states, water quality is and has improved since the clean water act of the 1970s. Hopefully the California fish will start looking better.

Don Alley - 8-24-2007 at 08:59 AM

Colder water can support higher percentages of dissolved oxygen.

Also, ocean nutrients (plankton, fish, etc) eventually settle to the bottom. Frequently the source of cold water is from upwellings that bring nutrient rich waters back up from the depths. So you'll frequently see a correaltion between water temperature and clarity. Nutrient rich waters tend to be green from the chlorophyll that results from the high nutrients. The water has, in effect, been fertilized.

Heavily "fertilized" water not only has more life, but where there is more life there is more death, more decomposing plant and animal life. That decomposition consumes oxygen in the water, and the possible reduction in dissolved oxygen can impact biomass and diversity. Colder waters can hold more oxygen and be buffered against such oxygen depletion.

Ken Bondy - 8-24-2007 at 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
You've dived a lot Ken. Have you ever seen more luxuriant plant life than the Monterey Bay? I hear New Zealand is like that also.

Igor the only places where I have seen more luxuriant underwater plant life (and invertebrate life like anemones, gorgonians, etc.) than in Monterey Bay is in the San Juan Islands, the area around Vancouver Island, and in Alaska (Ketchikan). In other words, in colder water. While I have enjoyed all of my warmwater dives in the Indo Pacific, the Sea of Cortez and the Caribbean, there is no question that the colder the water, the more luxuriant the life.

++Ken++

The Sculpin - 8-24-2007 at 09:46 AM

Having spent a good portion of my life fileting fish, I can say that some fish are worse than others. The worst by far is the swordfish. 1 out of 4 fish would have baseball or grapefruit sized tumors in the shoulder in from of the dorsal. These things were hard, made up of several dark colors, and were nasty. This is why I never eat swordfish. Halibut have the worms in the belly, so no big deal. Same with white sea bass and black sea bass. They're easy to spot..just hold the belly meat up to the light. Rock cod, cow cod, and bacaccios tend to have this tube looking thing in their shoulder meat. It's kinda like a tubular zit. They get to be a half inch long and about the thickness of a large wire. Best to cut that stuff out. These fish also get what looks like sea grass in their meat. I never have figured that one out. It cooks up just fine. Ling Cod and Cabezon get these too. I could go on, but seeing the looks on your faces, I think I'll stop.

By the way, none of this has prevented me from eating fish. I just know where to look!

Skipjack Joe - 8-24-2007 at 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley
So you'll frequently see a correaltion between water temperature and clarity. Nutrient rich waters tend to be green from the chlorophyll that results from the high nutrients. The water has, in effect, been fertilized.

I know that what you say is true, but here is something that puzzles me.

Whenever the water is green the fish seem to move off. Fishermen will tell you that there is bad water now, the dorado are gone. They'll be back when the clear blue water returns. Two weeks ago at Asuncion the water became an unclear green, the temperature dropped into the mid fifties, and all the pelagic gamefish left (and so did I).

This happens all the time. Pangueros can predict the fishing by the color of the water.

If this water is so rich why do the fish leave? Maybe it's because green water means cold water and these pelagics like the warm temperatures often associated with clear water. Anyway, I was always impressed with how these guys could just look at the water and tell you how good the dorado fishing will be. Usually I can't see the difference in the water quality.

Don Alley - 8-24-2007 at 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

I usually see this associated with pelagic fish, like dorado and billfish. I think these fish are sight hunters and they like clear water with excellent visibility. But I usually see more baitfish in the shallower, greener water. And I wonder, ge, if I were a dorado, I'd head on in and chow down.

Re: Ken's posts
Many years ago, when I made my first trip to the San Juan Islands, I did not expect the beachcombing opportunities that I had found in Southern California, because it was way up north in colder water. Wow, was I ever surprised! Lower tides uncovering an amazing collection of stuff! Heaven!

toneart - 8-24-2007 at 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Sculpin
Having spent a good portion of my life fileting fish, I can say that some fish are worse than others. The worst by far is the swordfish. 1 out of 4 fish would have baseball or grapefruit sized tumors in the shoulder in from of the dorsal. These things were hard, made up of several dark colors, and were nasty. This is why I never eat swordfish. Halibut have the worms in the belly, so no big deal. Same with white sea bass and black sea bass. They're easy to spot..just hold the belly meat up to the light. Rock cod, cow cod, and bacaccios tend to have this tube looking thing in their shoulder meat. It's kinda like a tubular zit. They get to be a half inch long and about the thickness of a large wire. Best to cut that stuff out. These fish also get what looks like sea grass in their meat. I never have figured that one out. It cooks up just fine. Ling Cod and Cabezon get these too. I could go on, but seeing the looks on your faces, I think I'll stop.

By the way, none of this has prevented me from eating fish. I just know where to look!

I'm just wondering how careful commercial market fish preparers are when fileting or cutting fish into steaks. I know I give store bought fish a good lookover before cooking.

I remember 20-30 years ago while pier fishing in Sausalito, most of those fish had worms living along the backbone. I never ate them but I observed many inner city people fishing for their dinner. I would see the same families on many different days taking the fish home. :barf:

i probably should't ask....

woody with a view - 8-24-2007 at 03:10 PM

so what happens? you eat raw fish and there are (possibly) worms in the fish that didn't get noticed and you eat them. yum!!! does your stomach acids kill them? what about cooked fish that the worms weren't noticed???

i really don't think i wanna know. where's the "delete" button?

Skipjack Joe - 8-24-2007 at 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody in ob
so what happens? you eat raw fish and there are (possibly) worms in the fish that didn't get noticed and you eat them.

The idea that you can just extract parasites by looking at the meat backlit with the sun seems suspect to me. I'll bet people are ingesting these critters all the time. For every full grown parasite worm you see there are undoubtedly many immature or larval ones you pass up and consume.

bajajudy - 8-24-2007 at 03:44 PM

Years ago when I was out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean on a sail boat, we caught a tuna off the stern of the boat and when we cut it open there were worms...very visible....that I would not eat.

But as you can tell from my other post, that has not kept me from eating raw fish.

This is an interesting thread.

bajajudy - 8-24-2007 at 06:13 PM

Quote:

The blue water around the equator (the doldrums) is some of the most barren on the planet.

That is where we were. We were so surprised to catch a fish and then to find worms...yuck to the max.

jerry - 8-24-2007 at 06:19 PM

them worms must be good all they been eating is fish :lol:

Gee

Sharksbaja - 8-25-2007 at 03:17 AM

What a great bunch of replies. I like the biological inference and comparisons that accompany a post like this. I wonder about silly things like this. I don't expect exact data but I give good relevance to those Nomads who engage serious discussion with their experience. There is no agenda :rolleyes:

just curiosity. :saint:

My interest lies in fact that I fillet daily, large fish for the restaurant. In as many years as I've been doing this, I've seen few worms or parasites. Halibut occasionally will produce a few. Ling Cod, rockfish sp. very rare. Salmon very rare. Sturgeon, very rare.
These are all cold-water catches. PNW exclusively except seasonal Alaskan halibut and or sebastes sp. from Canada.