BajaNomad - R-12 Refrigerant in Tijuana

R-12 Refrigerant in Tijuana

CaboRon - 9-10-2007 at 04:42 PM

I am looking for 4 cans of R-12 Auto Airconditioning Refrigerant .

An comming down to San Yesidro on Thursday morning
and crossing on foot to get my new FM3 stamped.

A Mexican neighbor of mine said R-12 can be had for five dollars a can in Baja California ...... it is no longer available up here.

Is there a place very close to the border that sells it :?:

Addrress or directions (I'll be on foot) would be most appreciated.

Thanks for any help,

CaboRon

[Edited on 9-11-2007 by CaboRon]

elgatoloco - 9-10-2007 at 04:50 PM

Don't forget to declare all items when returning back to USA.

http://sandiego.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel06/sd070706a.htm

NEVERMIND

CaboRon - 9-10-2007 at 04:55 PM

Wow,
Was just informed that it is illegal to bring the stuff into the US....................So

:lol:

NEVERMIND

mtgoat666 - 9-10-2007 at 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

A Mexican neighbor of mine said R-12 can be had for five dollars a can in Baja California ...... it is no longer available up here.

global warming is real... one reason you can't buy R-12 in US... you really should pay the extra dollars and quit using the bad stuff like CFC -- the polar bears will thank you.

bancoduo - 9-10-2007 at 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
I am looking for 4 cans of R-12 Auto Airconditioning Refrigerant .

An comming down to San Yesidro on Thursday morning
and crossing on foot to get my new FM3 stamped.

A Mexican neighbor of mine said R-12 can be had for five dollars a can in Baja California ...... it is no longer available up here.

Is there a place very close to the border that sells it :?:

Addrress or directions (I'll be on foot) would be most appreciated.

Thanks for any help,

CaboRon

Can't help you there DUDE. But I can tell you your new address. MCC San Diego. :lol:

Dave - 9-10-2007 at 05:03 PM

Pretty sure it's also illegal down here. But that don't mean jack. :rolleyes:

CaboRon - 9-10-2007 at 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

A Mexican neighbor of mine said R-12 can be had for five dollars a can in Baja California ...... it is no longer available up here.

global warming is real... one reason you can't buy R-12 in US... you really should pay the extra dollars and quit using the bad stuff like CFC -- the polar bears will thank you.

My desire is not to use it. However I have a 1990 truck and it won't tolarate the R-132...... disolves gaskets and such.

The truck is permannently moving to Mexico on Oct 2, and then at least if it isn't moral or right , it will be legal.

My mechanic advises me the system would leak like a sive in a week or two.

If you know of a less toxic (to the atmosphere) direct replacement, well, I would be very happy to use it.

So, please work with me here, I need alternatives.

Thanks for your comments,

CaboRon

DENNIS - 9-10-2007 at 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

So, please work with me here, I need alternatives.

Thanks for your comments,

CaboRon

A big box of ice cold Pacifico.

comitan - 9-10-2007 at 05:17 PM

Ron

Just rough it till you get here.

CaboRon - 9-10-2007 at 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
Ron

Just rough it till you get here.

Thanks Comitan,

Just picked up one of those Wal-Mart fans that plugs into the accessory outlet ......

- CaboRon

elgatoloco - 9-10-2007 at 05:24 PM

Suitable replacement = 2 x 60 :lol:

Taco de Baja - 9-10-2007 at 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

My mechanic advises me the system would leak like a sive in a week or two.

If you know of a less toxic (to the atmosphere) direct replacement, well, I would be very happy to use it.

So, please work with me here, I need alternatives.

Thanks for your comments,

CaboRon

Open your windows when it gets hot..... :lol:

Seriously, there are not many alternatives except to do a retrofit and convert your R-12 system into a R-134 system...but that may cost more than you vehicle is worth.

No point in dumping R-12 into a system that will leak it out in a week or two, legal or not.

But, if you can get all the seals/gaskets fixed in Mexico, go for it and fill with the R-12. Just be sure to do a leak test with Nitrogen, or other inert gas BEFORE refilling with R-12 to be sure it its really fixed.

Hell there are millions of home and car A/C systems and home refrigerators with R-12 safely pumping through their pipes right here in the USA.

The horror!

Dave - 9-10-2007 at 05:25 PM

How will you survive?

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

The truck is permannently moving to Mexico on Oct 2.

Dude...that's 3 weeks. :rolleyes:

CaboRon - 9-10-2007 at 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon

So, please work with me here, I need alternatives.

Thanks for your comments,

CaboRon

A big box of ice cold Pacifico.

Dennis,

Didn't know it came in a box :lol:

CaboRon

Dave - 9-10-2007 at 05:29 PM

To repeat:

I'm almost positive that R-12 is also illegal in Mexico. Anyone want to dispute this?

CaboRon - 9-10-2007 at 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco de Baja

Quote:

Open your windows when it gets hot..... :lol:

Sorry,

I meant my mechanic said it would leak if i put the R-132 in.

I does not currently leak I don't believe, but I don't know.

Was very appreciative of the nitrogen test idea and I will follow thru with that.

Thanks,

- CaboRon

BMG - 9-10-2007 at 05:35 PM

Quote:

A big box of ice cold Pacifico.

Nope, won't work. I tried. The Pacifico 'leaked' faster than the R-12.

CB - Same problem here. My old van uses R-12. I was going to take it down to La Paz to leave but decided not too when I got a quote of $1000+ to fix the A/C. Even if I can get the work done cheaper there, still a long, hot trip without A/C.

As a kid, I remember taking a trip in my folks old '56 Plymouth. My Dad put one of those evaporative coolers on the passenger window. I think it kept us cooler but not sure. I have fond memories of my Mom screaming every time a drop of cold water went in her ear. Seems to me she needed a towel a lot. Hmmmm, for some reason I don't remember ever using that contraption again.

elgatoloco - 9-10-2007 at 05:40 PM

Supposed to stop using by 2010 in Mexico. Supposedly production of R12 has ceased but supplies remain?

How the heck REALLY knows?

Dave, maybe you can ask your local certified mechanic? :biggrin:

roamin - 9-10-2007 at 05:42 PM

Cabo Ron,

First thing to do is find out why the original refrigerant leaked out in the first place. Automotive systems are just like refrigerators etc. in that they are sealed and unless a leak has formed, will never degrade or need changing. The costs of refrigerant and labor are too high these days to simply top off or "re-charge" as they say. I would say the regulations limit this practice but I see you are moving to the great lawless region so nevermind (that was a joke boys).

As far as refrigerants go, R-414B (HotShot) is a direct drop in refrigerant that your mechanic should be able to get. There are others as well.

Good luck.

Roamin

CaboRon - 9-10-2007 at 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BMG

Quote:

A big box of ice cold Pacifico.

Oh Gezzzzzzzz,

What memories. We had one of those evaporative coolers in the window and canvas bags full of water hanging on the front grill for the radiater. :lol:

Ours was a 1948 Plymouth coupe that my dad paid $810.00 cash for. It was the first new car he purchased and he was really proud of that Plymouth.

Thanks for joging my memories ............

CaboRon

CaboRon - 9-10-2007 at 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hose A
Replacement for R-12
http://www.refrigerantsales.com/

Low Cost
Autofrost is about 1/4th the cost of R-12.
High Performance
Autofrost will produce a 3 to 10 degree colder air temperature at the duct than R-12.

EPA Accepted
Autofrost X3 has been found acceptable by the EPA for automotive and fixed applications.

No Oil Change
Autofrost is totally compatible with the existing mineral oil in an R-12 system.

[Edited on 9-11-2007 by Hose A]

Hose A,

Now that's what I was really looking for.. A direct replacement for the R-12...... that is compatable with mother nature.

Thanks for the link and the information,

- CaboRon

Dave - 9-10-2007 at 05:58 PM

http://www.tierramerica.info/nota.php?lang=eng&idnews=94...

Bajalero - 9-10-2007 at 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

global warming is real... one reason you can't buy R-12 in US... you really should pay the extra dollars and quit using the bad stuff like CFC -- the polar bears will thank you.

Where do you come up with stuff like this ? You just pull it out of your arse or what .

It's not illegal to buy R12 in the US. It's regulated and if you have the proper license you can buy all you want tomorrow. Try Johnstone supply .

It is no longer manufactured in the US and many other countries and the remaining manufacturers are gradually cutting back to zero. Then once the supply is gone, it's gone.

It's available widely in Mex. but it is considered CONTRABAND if you decide to cross the border with it - even if you're licensed.

About the time it's all gone, R134 and a mix of other refrigerants will have been found to be detrimental to the environment/ atmosphere and will be banned paving the way for yet another money making "new" replacement.

By the way, I'm not recommending it , but regular old dry propane works about as good as any replacement for R12

Cool!

Dave - 9-10-2007 at 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajalero
By the way, I'm not recommending it , but regular old dry propane works about as good as any replacement for R12

My brain don't work that way and never would have thought about it but a big part of R-12 is propane, no?

Think I could find "dry" in Mexico?

vandy - 9-11-2007 at 01:50 AM

Look up "envirosafe" refrigerant, basically propane mixed with butane, in cans ready-to-use. I got some for $50 including pressure gauge, 5 cans, and valve adapters and postage.
It won't blow up in your system unless you add O2 to it somehow...
There are a few other manufacturers also.
Good luck!

Pescador - 9-11-2007 at 07:38 AM

Propane actually cools the system better than R-12, but leaks and collisions really play havoc with hot engines. I had a friend with a newer Mercedes-Benz who did not want to replace R-12 when he did the system at the higher price and he replaced with Propane, but the car is "toast" now. :bounce:

Bajalero - 9-11-2007 at 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajalero
By the way, I'm not recommending it , but regular old dry propane works about as good as any replacement for R12

My brain don't work that way and never would have thought about it but a big part of R-12 is propane, no?

Think I could find "dry" in Mexico?

Dave, R12 ,aka freon, is a single molecule . C Cl2 F2. no propane there. Non toxic , non flamable .

R12 was used as a propellant and dispersant in many products , insecticide foggers (the best ones ever), aerosols and even in medicines like the inhalers asthmatics use. Maybe thats what you were thinking?

Dave - 9-11-2007 at 09:01 AM

But isn't there a refrigerant R-something that is mostly propane?

Bajalero - 9-11-2007 at 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
But isn't there a refrigerant R-something that is mostly propane?

I had to look it up but propane has its own refrigerant designation.

R290

I think what you may be asking is if some of the replacements are actually part propane?

some of the aftermarket replacements for r-12 have a large propane component. They mix it with isobutane and I've heard they're experimenting with CO2 - propane mixtures. I would guess to help keep it from igniting in an accident.

Here's one that sounds like it is pure propane

http://www.deepfreezeinc.ca/faq.htm

Dave - 9-11-2007 at 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajalero
I would guess to help keep it from igniting in an accident.

The amount to charge a car's system shouldn't be much of a concern, eh?

I've used propane to air up tires.

Bajalero - 9-11-2007 at 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajalero
I would guess to help keep it from igniting in an accident.

The amount to charge a car's system shouldn't be much of a concern, eh?

I've used propane to air up tires.

I would think it negligible and I'm going to give one of the propane replacements a try for comparison sometime

If your thinking about an R12 retrofit/ replacement it makes since to me since conversion to 134 can be expensive if properly done.

Alot of people complain about their 134 A/C not being cool enough. It is in fact a less effiicent gas. Most only change the o-rings and compressor oil but fail to install a larger condensor(in front of the radiator) to remove heat and also don't put in a proper expansion valve for a different gas, (often mounted on the evaporator) in the cab of your car.

If you currently have an R12 system and are in Mex i would just replace it with the same. Have it done at a shop and make sure they have a set of gauges and a vacuum pump. You are not going to affect the ultimate amount of CFC's in the atmoshere since the amount available is finite and they are not destroying it. Whether you use it or the next guy will make no difference.

A couple of other important things to consider.

R12 requires a mineral based compressor oil. R134 replacements use a synthetic ester lubricant and the two are not miscible. The propane replacements advertise complete lubricant compatability

Any time you repair or work on an a/c syatem, it needs to be put on a vacuum for two reasons. One , to check for leaks and two to remove any internal moisture that can freeze up and decrease the systems efficiency or make it not work altogether. A minimum vacuum of -30mm Hg should be apllied for a minimum of 1 hour to "boil" off and evacuate all moisture . If your system has simply a slow(like over a year) leak and has lost most of it's refrigerant , you might be sucessful in just adding the proper amount of replacement to make it work. If it has set without charge for sometime it will have to be repaired and then put under a vacuum before being charged.

hope this helps

Minnow - 9-11-2007 at 10:54 AM

R-12 is still available in most Mexican auto parts stores.

I used the new replacement, not R-134. It works good too. The air is actually colder than I can ever remember the straight R-12 being. Cabo Ron, I got a good AC guy in Cantu if you want to charge your system before you head out to the desert. He is certified and will fiil you up with the new R=12 compatable replacement.

Illegal in Baja ??

MrBillM - 9-11-2007 at 12:10 PM

I planned ahead and bought enough R-12 to last me as long as I will ever need it. Took the cans North a few at a time. I haven't looked on the store shelves in quite awhile, but now I will on Thursday when I make a weekly trip in San Felipe.

Stay tuned.

[Edited on 9-11-2007 by MrBillM]

Taco de Baja - 9-11-2007 at 12:49 PM

Also be aware that the CARB is contemplating outlawing the sale of safe and sane R134 in California....Stock up now. :light:

I have, as my low pressure AC line can crack (design flaw in early Tacomas) and leak all the R134.....I want to be able to fix it and refill myself cheaply rather than have an “AC Master Technician” to do it for $500+.
Yes, I have vaccum pump and Manifold so I know it is evacuated and refilled correctly

Quote:

Possible Ban on R134a Refrigerant Sales?
NEWS UPDATE: 3/7/2007 The California Air Resources Board (CARB) has proposed banning the sale of R134a refrigerant to motorists.

The California Air Resources Board (CARB) has proposed a law to ban the sale of 134a refrigerant to consumers, potentially impacting the ability of California DIYers to work on their cars. If enacted, Californians will no longer be permitted to purchase cans of auto refrigerant, leaving them with no option but to go to a repair facility for assistance, according to a group opposing the proposed ban.
Link

Show your outrage at:
Stay cool California

[Edited on 9-11-2007 by Taco de Baja]

Jeez !

MrBillM - 9-11-2007 at 06:17 PM

Thanks for the update. Now I know what to buy next in the States. This is getting ridiculous.

CARB approved A/C

BMG - 9-11-2007 at 06:30 PM

Quote:

Thanks for any help,

CaboRon

CR - Looks like you'll be using the new CA approved A/C on your trip south.

R-12 No Mas ?

MrBillM - 9-13-2007 at 05:52 PM

Drove into San Felipe for my weekly supply run.

Mercado Baja- NO R-12. Empty spot on the shelf.

Mercado Sembrador - a couple dozen cans of R-134, but NO R-12.

Quien Sabe ?

Minnow - 9-13-2007 at 06:02 PM

Wow, that is good news. Mexico is going green. I bet it can still be had in most cities though. And what was the original question? :bounce:

bajalou - 9-13-2007 at 06:04 PM

I've always found it in the auto parts stores in San Felipe - I usually use Ramirez.

Minnow - 9-13-2007 at 06:05 PM

Yeah Bill, try the auto parts store, not the Mercado. :lol:

CaboRon - 9-13-2007 at 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by elgatoloco
Suitable replacement = 2 x 60 :lol:

First time I drove down the Baja was in mid August sans A.C. For two weeks beforehand when I was touring around in the States, I drove with the windows up and the heater running. When I got to the border, I shut the heater down, opened the windows, and cruised down into the "furnace" happy as a pig in a mudpie.

True story. :biggrin:

--Larry

Larry,

" Your a better man than I, Gunda Din"

I took the easy way out and bought this nice new air concitioning system at the wal-mart. :lol:

- CaboRon

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I Don't NEED Any.

MrBillM - 9-13-2007 at 06:12 PM

As I have said, I planned for the future long ago and moved a quantity Northward to service ANY needs I may have. I was only curious. Previously, it was such a hot-selling item that EVERY store carried it. At one time, the Customs service said it was the second most smuggled item.

Should I ever walk into an Auto Parts store in San Felipe, I will ask simply to satisfy that curiosity, but I don't feel inclined to go out of my way. It's not THAT important.