BajaNomad - Gotta buy a fridge

Gotta buy a fridge

bonanza bucko - 9-21-2007 at 08:13 AM

My wife, AKA "KayPassa"....or "The Boss"....needs a new fridge at our place at Alfonsina's She needs it for comidas but I need it for cold Pacifico y Canadian Club. Now that we have lotsa juice free from God via Kyocera and Trace and OutBack we can get a regular Gringo Fridge.

We are tired of wrecking shocks with a big load on That Road south of Puertecitos so we will probably buy the new fridge in TJ or Ensenda and go to Alfy's the long way with a stay at The Old Mil in San Quinntin or some such (The last time we drove in that way was 1983??!!).

Where would you buy a Gringo fridge in either TJ or Ensenda? We assume there are Costcos and Home Depots etc. in both places but maybe there are better places to buy one. We have not been in either town since 1983....looked at both from the air about once a month for the last 25 years but it's hard to spot Costco from 8000 feet.

I would also love to hear if there is a particular brand of Gringo Fridge you would recommend in 19 to 22 cubic foot size....don't need ice makers or through the door enhancements because the free from God juice doesn't yet come in megawatts. We also don't need a SunFrost or equivalent that sells a plain ole fridge with lotsa styrofoam for lotsa pesos.

I'm working on convinciing The Boss that she doesn't need the freezer and small fridge we already have plus the 65 year old Sevell that cranks out ice all day long as well as the new fridge. But that is like convincing her that a hair dryer ain't authorized on solar juice either. It used to be that a "Permanent wave" on the beach was acquired by jumping into salt water and then taking a fast drive in a dune buggy.....no more! :bounce:

Even though we are joining the modern world down there it's really toooooo bad that the techweenies have overlaid us with "conveniences." I saw a dude walking down Alfy's beach last week using our boot legged WiFi with a laptop in front of his face.....he was ignoring the Pelicans, Frigate Birds and Gulls so he could watch UTube on the beach!! Sick! :?:

Bob and Susan - 9-21-2007 at 08:26 AM

if i did it again...i'd buy the frig in the states

the "third world" gets a "downgraded" model even if made from a BIG usa company like whirlpool or ge

lots of basic items like "self closing" doors
are not added to products sold here

stoves do not have a temp control either...
buy the stove in the states too

newer appliances are way better and take way less electricty
buy new and help the ecomnomy :spingrin:

bajajudy - 9-21-2007 at 08:47 AM

I bought a Bosch stove at Costco here and I couldnt be happier.
Of course it is not a refrigerator.

Fridge

bajaguy - 9-21-2007 at 09:02 AM

If you are going to buy in the states, look for an appliance outlet place. Got my fridge, stove and washer/dryer all GE, all new and current models, at one shop. Minor dents/scratches, mostly not noticable. Got a 1900 dollar stove for $1200. Similar savings on other appliances. Worth a look.

[Edited on 9-21-2007 by bajaguy]

toneart - 9-21-2007 at 09:15 AM

I have a Mexican Whirlpool refrigerator that went through the Mulege flood.
It floated to the ceiling, got wedged between the kitchen counter and the ceiling and was filled with mud. It is covered with dents and scratches. Some of the plastic drawers and shelves were broken. I had a local appliance guy haul it away, thinking that's the last I will see of it. To my surprise, he showed up at my front door with the fridge in the back of his pickup. He had cleaned it out, soldered some broken tubing and recharged it. I thoroughly disinfected it and glued some of the broken plastic. He charged me $68 U.S. dollars and it is purring right along. ....works perfectly. No warm Pacifico!

backninedan - 9-21-2007 at 09:26 AM

I purchased a Mabe fridge four years ago and it has been great.

toneart - 9-21-2007 at 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by backninedan
I purchased a Mabe fridge four years ago and it has been great.

I considered buying a Mabe. After tossing the idea around, Mabe yes, Mabe no, I opted for the no. :no:

Import duty

bonanza bucko - 9-21-2007 at 09:39 AM

If I buy a fridge in the US and imort it to Mexico....delcare it at the border in the back of my truck...what will the import duty be?

wellllllllllllllll

bajaguy - 9-21-2007 at 09:47 AM

depends, remember, this is Mexico.....

If you can get to a computer and make a reasonable looking receipt with some logos, you can lower the price of the fridge and thus pay a lower duty.....or....

Have the store where you bought the fridge make you a "secondary" receip with a lower price.....or...

you can take off the stickers and make it look used with some ketchup, soy sauce, peanut butter, bread crumbs and some well placed dust and dirt and call it used.

Whatever you buy, be sure to remove any labels that mention "Made in China" or get a knife and cut the Made in China part out

Regrigerators in Mexico

MrBillM - 9-21-2007 at 10:46 AM

Neighbors here who are purchasing 110VAC Refrigerators to run off of their Inverters are ALL buying LG units purchased in Mexico. They all seem very happy with the choice.

Cypress - 9-21-2007 at 10:55 AM

Any appliance that was retrieved/salvaged from the Mulege flood and could be repaired must be one tuff piece of work. :bounce:

I'd buy it. :tumble:

vandenberg - 9-21-2007 at 10:59 AM

Try Craig's List. Had a friend bought a all kitchen appliances there. Almost new ,at a fraction of new prices. Just a hint.

Gnome-ad - 9-21-2007 at 11:01 AM

I lust after the Bosch side by side refrigerator freezer with no gizmos on the door for ice, etc. Saw it at CCC in LaPaz. Sigh. It will be awhile, have a dorm size Sanyo fridge with a glove box size freezer and a Coleman stove for now ... this has been a great thread though, maybe we'll go with Mabe. Have to say I do not like my LG vacuum cleaner very much. LG was advertising in the USA when I left as "the luxury brand."

Mango - 9-21-2007 at 11:04 AM

I got an LG fridge earlier this year at Coppel here in Mexicali. It's outside dimensions are roughly 22" x 22" x 65". It's just a bit narrower than most fridges so it could fit into my apartment.

I have been very happy with it. It does have plastic shelves, which was a minus for me.. but I figured I could always make shelves out of 1/4" plywood to fully secure it's status as a "Mexican Fridge" if the plastic ones broke. So far so good. It runs quiet and was the most efficient model for it's size that I could find. The "Mabe" fridges were not as efficent, and well.. I had never seen the brand before.. so I stuck with LG.

You will find new large appliances at Costco, Homedepot, Wal-Mart, Coppel, Dorrians, Elektra, etc..

I got the best deal at Coppel, and they delivered it. Elektra was way overpriced on everything IMO.

LG

MrBillM - 9-21-2007 at 11:14 AM

Applying the Brand-Name "Logic":

I once had an LG Cellphone I was satisfied with so I suppose that the Refrigerator should be OK. I'd have a difficult time matching my favorite Vacuum Cleaner. I haven't seen a "Dirt Devil" Refrigerator listed. Odd since they have so much in the way of operating principles in common.

Let me know if you run across one.

todostim - 9-21-2007 at 11:15 AM

We are all solar in Todos Santos, BCS. producing about 1100 watts/hr with 12 L16 storage. We had a propane one for quite a while but got tired of the fumes and the fridge not getting cold enough. Then we found a 110v fridge that runs on 1.7 amps called a ConServ or Equator (search Google) european made and easily found in the U.S. Top Fridge bottom 3 drawer freezer. Its really easy on the solar. We leave it on all the time. It stays nice and cold, can flash freeze, makes ice fast. 'Can't recommend it high enough.

Bob and Susan - 9-21-2007 at 11:38 AM

we have a ge fridg from costco in ensanada
we use it 24-7 on solar and inverter

it uses 150 watts right now
this winter it used 126 watts
we found by leaving it on a cooler setting it works much less

propane DOES SMELL :no:

if you have an fm3 and the fridg is the ONLY thing on the truck AND it's out of the box the import is nearly nothing :yes:

our pool equip
doors and windows
dishwasher...
were all around 20% of the invoice submitted :yes:

i'd buy in the usa for the warranty
once you import the applicance you can take it back and forth for repair if needed :light:

Bob and Susan - 9-21-2007 at 11:40 AM

oh yea

i bought a $160 chest freezer from lowes...

the guy at the border said after looking a the receipt and the fm3 ...
"is that all???"
"yup"
"drive on... no charge"

comitan - 9-21-2007 at 11:50 AM

Samsung bought in Mexico low power consumption great quality, Look ar power consumption first of all, they all have it listed.

convert a chest freezer

markshark - 9-21-2007 at 12:45 PM

you guys ever check this out?
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Conservation/chest_frid...

Marie-Rose - 9-21-2007 at 12:49 PM

Love my LG purchased from Costco. Bottom freezer compartment. Works better, and certainly is quieter than the Kenmore we have here.

Bajaboy - 9-21-2007 at 01:58 PM

what prices are you paying in Baja?

[Edited on 9-21-2007 by Bajaboy]

Mango - 9-21-2007 at 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy
what prices are you paying in Baja?

[Edited on 9-21-2007 by Bajaboy]

If I remember right my fridge cost me just under $300. I just bought a clothes washer (Whirlpool) from Home Depot for about $2999 pesos (price included tax)

From what I have seen the prices seem pretty reasonable here on most electronics and appliances; but, the selection is not as good. Also, your instruction manual and/or labels for knobs and switches will most likely be in Spanish if that is a concern.

Wingnut - 9-21-2007 at 03:17 PM

Last year I had to buy a new fridge. Based on Consumer Reports that labeled this a best buy, I bought an LG with a bottom freezer. CR reports that this model lasts longer with less repairs than any other. It has glass shelves and moveable door storage. You can arrange them as needed. I did buy the smaller home model and it was really inexpensive. I bought it at Best Buy in Phoenix. I highly recommend it. (The larger model might be more to your liking as I am single and don't keep too much in mine. The larger model was only a little more expensive.)

Info on gas refers ?

tortuga - 9-21-2007 at 05:07 PM

Any one have a good report on gas refers . I would imagine they are availible in Mexico. I am going of grid when I build and was thinking gas would be good for refrigeration .
The refer in our travel trailer is gas and works very well when we are visiting Los Barriles . No fumes etc . and sips the propane .
Anyways any info is always greatly appreciated.
Saludos Tortuga

vandenberg - 9-21-2007 at 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy
what prices are you paying in Baja?

[Edited on 9-21-2007 by Bajaboy]

Paid little over a $1025.00 for a 22 cu.ft Whirlpool here in Loreto. Only side by side I could find here. Same unit sells in Ca. for about $850.00. However,the not having to transport it and no border hassle makes the difference worth it IMO.

oladulce - 9-22-2007 at 01:42 AM

Bob and Susan had warned me that the Mexican gas ranges often lack temperature markings on the oven knob to indicate the oven temp, so I came prepared with my own oven thermometer when we decided to get a tiny stove from the Ensenada Home Depot.

What I didn't realize about the 19" Mabe range that we got for our guest casita, was that there is absolutely no seal on the oven door. There might as well not be a door on it at all for the amount of hot air that blasts out.
I have to pull it out and away from cabinets to use the oven, and remember not the touch the nearby door handles so I don't leave skin behind. Oh well, the burners work ok and it'll serve it's purpose.

This experience reconfirmed that we'll be bringing in better quality applicances when we build the main house. We're too far in the boonies to be dealing with poor quality and malfunctions.

Since we're solar, always assumed we'd have a prorpane refer too but have recently done a 180° . We've got a newer, small Consul/Danby gas fridge that works fine, but still requires monitoring to keep the temp even and there's always the concern that if the bottle runs out while we're gone a few hours, or a moth puts out the flame, it wouldn't take long for the contents to reach room temperature. Dealing with the gas fridge in our camper is no big deal, but for a full-time residence, (my husband says) it'll be nice to eliminate the extra maintainence and monitoring it would require.

The large model propane refers are over $2000 dollars and for a little more than that we can get the panel(s?) and battery and a full-size electric model that we won't have to worry about or mess with.

comitan - 9-22-2007 at 07:05 AM

In Mexico your not limited to just Mexican Stoves, there are other brands of high quality and all of the controls.

Thanks Oladulce

tortuga - 9-22-2007 at 07:11 AM

I guess my whole thing is always the money factor . But you are right , it's probably a push buying more panels versus the higher cost of propane refer .Plus after initial cost I won't have to buy the propane . :yes:

Gracias y saludos ,
Tortuga

[Edited on 9-22-2007 by tortuga]

tortuga - 9-22-2007 at 07:23 AM

Comitan,
I know in Chapitos market in Los Barriles they Have a number of U.S. and Japanese (?) brand appliances . They look to me to comprable to U.S. models . Probably be better price wise in La Paz , though.
Saludos,
Tortuga

Eli - 9-22-2007 at 08:12 AM

I am thinking that an important consideration always be given to what effect there be in the consistant problem of inconsistency in electrical power, (i.e. brown outs) no matter what quality of electrical appliances one installs.

oxxo - 9-22-2007 at 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
Paid little over a $1025.00 for a 22 cu.ft Whirlpool here in Loreto. Only side by side I could find here. Same unit sells in Ca. for about $850.00. However,the not having to transport it and no border hassle makes the difference worth it IMO.

I've gone over the math time and time again on this kind of purchase. Here is what I have found using your refrigerator as an example:

The $1,025 Loreto refrigerator includes the 10% IVA. You go to Costco or Home Depot, and most Mexican Dept. stores, all their marked prices include the 10% IVA

The $850 CA refrigerator is plus tax, say 8% = $918
Include 15% import duty from CA on $918 = $1,055
Then you have transportation from CA to Loreto, say $100

So the grand total for the same CA refrigerator would be $1,155 for the same refrigerator in Loreto for $1,025.

Is there an error in my math? My general rule of thumb is that if it is less than 20% to 25% more for the same item in Mexico, I purchase it in Mexico.

oladulce - 9-22-2007 at 09:31 AM

We use that sort of formula often oxxo, when trying to decide what items we'll bring down and what we'll buy in Mexico. But another factor I add to the equation is the amount of time it requires to shop around and determine if the model we saw in Mexico is the exact same quality and features as the one available in the US.

I find that kind of research to be time consuming even when comparing high and low-end models of US brands. Is it just bells and whistles adding to the price, or are the hundreds of dollars differences between their "good" and their "Best" due to the quality? Sounds like Bob discovered a big difference in US and Mexican versions of the same brands.

Vandenberg mentioned he compared the exact same Whirlpool model refer and shoot yeah it would be worth buying that one in Loreto to save the extra hauling effort.

My list of appliances that must be good ones:
1. Fridge 2. washer (for water and power efficiency) 3. BBQ.

No, make that: 1. BBQ 2.Fridge 3. Washer.

Note that an oven/range will never be on this list, as mi esposo can attest to.

[Edited on 9-22-2007 by oladulce]

oxxo - 9-22-2007 at 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oladulce
But another factor I add to the equation is the amount of time it requires to shop around and determine if the model we saw in Mexico is the exact same quality and features as the one available in the US.

ITA...we purchased a Whirlpool fridge here in Mexico. As near as I can tell, it is the same exact model as the US....self closing door (when leveled properly), reversible door, glass shelves, all controls and instructions in English, etc. We are very happy with it and our final cost was less than had we purchased it in the US.

I cringe at some of the prices of things I purchase at Home Depot or Costco here in Mexico. But when I stop to think about it when I consider final cost and the prices already include the 10% IVA, the final cost is most often the same or even less in Mexico than the same item in the US. Yes, I know that are exactly the same item.

I did purchase a flat sccreen TV in the US and brought it down myself. I was able to save a couple hundred dollars (including CA tax & import) by doing that rather than purchase in Mexico. It was easy, just put it in the back seat. I do shop around, but I purchase 95% of my durable goods in Mexico. I find it less expensive and it just makes sense to me.

Bob and Susan - 9-22-2007 at 09:53 AM

we looked at bbqs here in mexico
nooooo good

we imported our bbq from lowes in the states
way better unit
made in china...sorry
mexicans don't bbq like americans and the features are better on units sold in the states

washer...
we brought our 1 year old unit from the states
whirlpool neptune washer AND dryer
works GREAT!!!
low elect and very little propane use for the dryer
propane burns hotter so you use less

fridg...i'd still import next time
just because it has an american name doesn't mean it has the same "guts" inside

sylens - 9-22-2007 at 10:07 AM

great info here. the only thing i would add is that in the event of malfunction, costco here is NOT costco usa. although it is not indicated in writing, return policy is generally 15 days. so if you do buy a major appliance here, you may want to check out the return policy.

having said that, we purchased our 22 cu ft lg refrigerator with bottom freezer and are very pleased with it, particularly given the discount we got on it at ensenada costco.

comitan - 9-22-2007 at 10:58 AM

1 They are more energy efficient.

#2 They have pullout drawer which is easier to pack things into without falling out.

bajaguy - 9-22-2007 at 11:05 AM

and if the power goes out, cold settles. Should keep things frozen longer.

oxxo - 9-22-2007 at 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sylens
the only thing i would add is that in the event of malfunction, costco here is NOT costco usa. although it is not indicated in writing, return policy is generally 15 days. so if you do buy a major appliance here, you may want to check out the return policy.

I had not thought about that. What is the return polcy of Costco USA? I have taken things back there, but it was always within a couple of weeks. I was never questioned. If I purchase at Costco, USA can I take things back after 2 or 3 months? I've never thought to ask.

I suppose I am comfortable with a 15 day return policy at Costco Mexico. I see people returning things all the time, although I have never done that in Mexico.

oxxo - 9-22-2007 at 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by morgaine7
Several folks have mentioned a bottom freezer. What would be the advantage of that, or is it a personal preference

With a top freezer, when you open the door all the cold air spills out.

With a bottom freezer with a pull out drawer, the cold air is generally going to stay within the pull out box.

Bob and Susan - 9-22-2007 at 11:45 AM

yes this ids ture but...

you have to "bend over" to get stuff out :yes:

and...
the stuff you need is ALWAYS on the bottom :no:

side by side is the best option for us "old guys" :lol:

edinnopolo - 9-22-2007 at 12:25 PM

And even in a side by side everything is always on the bottom in the freezer and behind loads of sh@t in the fridge.

BROWNOUTS AND RANDOM NOTES

rob - 9-22-2007 at 12:29 PM

Here at the ranch, we imported all our (Whirlpool) appliances from Sears in Chula Vista. Worked fine for 5 years until a short across a ceramic insulator created a prolonged brownout which we caught too late - the fridge and the stove were toast. PANIC.

In La Paz Sr. Talamantes fixed the fridge with a part from Monterrey in 3 days. The stove was more problematic, but found the needed part on the Internet (computer board), and a friend brought it from Phoenix. Plug'n' Play.

Friends to the south on solar threw out their propane fridges and bought an LG after research (both are engineers) - very happy.

Was very impressed with Juan and Shari's electric on-demand water heaters in Asuncion - I saw those widely in Europe but they never caught on in the States. We have Bosch on-demand propane heaters on the ranch - they are unreliable and would not use again.

Cypress - 9-22-2007 at 12:36 PM

If you can't eat it or wear it in 6 months, why bother to keep it? :?:

sylens - 9-22-2007 at 04:21 PM

Quote:

[Was very impressed with Juan and Shari's electric on-demand water heaters in Asuncion - I saw those widely in Europe but they never caught on in the States. We have Bosch on-demand propane heaters on the ranch - they are unreliable and would not use again.

we bought the aqua star tankless hot water heater at lowe's in 2000 and have been glad to have it. saves gas and water. only problem is it was initially installed wrong so that we had periodic "explosions" when a valve would get stuck. we purchased a bosch here. terrible. (limited ability to set water temp, always frigid or scalding, never "just right"). put back the original aqua star after contacting the manufacturer and installing the little part (filter) that was not installed originally. hot water heater has worked beautifully ever since.

Pescador - 9-22-2007 at 04:40 PM

The majority of Mabe stoves are indeed a manual adjust on the oven and this is shown by number 1-5 or so on the control knob, but they do make an automatic control unit, which is a little more expensive and the number are in Centigrade from 100-150. This is an automatic control and works just fine.
The Mabe and the LG refrigerators and not much more expensive, at least at Abrahams in Santa Rosalia than their counterparts in the US and there is no duty to pay, which is a nice feature as far as I am concerned.
One thing to be aware of is that stoves and refrigerators that are made in the US are built around a steady power supply whereas the stoves and refrigerators built in Mexico have no electrical controls that blow out when you have brownouts and power surges. When we watched our friends who had brought good units down from the US and then we talked to an appliance person who was in the know, he reported that in terms of longetivity, the Mexican units generally outlasted the US units because of this fact.

wakemall - 9-22-2007 at 08:54 PM

I have a Mabe stove and ref/freezer in my house in Loreto. So does my neighbor. I love the six-burner gas stove.... The refrigerator is medium size and works great. The door rack brackets on the refrigerator sucked and always feel out if the door was opened rapidly. Clear tape fixed that. Great room until my brother want to stuff two cases of Pacifico bottles in there.

Bedman - 9-23-2007 at 01:02 AM

Here's a few questions for those of you in the know Re: Solar. I know a little about solar, probably just enough to get me in trouble.

I've always thought I would buy and use a Propane frige. Reading the posts here I might be swayed to buy an electric one.

What is the daily wattage use of a decent smaller Refrigerator? (12 cu ft?)
How many 65 watt panels will be needed to supply this refrigerator?
How many X size batteries required to store that energy?
How large of an Inverter would be required/recommended to invert the 12 volt to 110?
.

I currently use the solar for low wattage 110 volt neon lights and for a 12 volt water pump.

I currently have 10 Grp 27 Gell Cell 12 volt batteries with a Capacity at C/100 99.5 (I get them free!!)

I have 6 Ea 65 watt panels. Roof mounted facing South.

I have a 3000 watt inverter, max 4500 Mod sine wave. (The true sine wave will/may come in the future.)

Bedman

[Edited on 9-23-2007 by Bedman]

Bob and Susan - 9-23-2007 at 07:17 AM

number one get one of these...

killawatt

killawatt.jpg - 11kB

Bob and Susan - 9-23-2007 at 07:28 AM

refridg uses about 120-150w when running
in winter no problems
in summer ours runs alot when the temp is aboove 90 degrees

you need more batteries to last thru the night if you use electric appliances

this last year i've used 40 marine 105ah batteries from walmart
wired at 24v

problem with so many batteries is the cables
get BIG ones (expensive) and
they have such SMALL watering holes

everytime i water the batteries or clean cables my shorts get MORE holes :barf:

for full time use don't skimp on batteries or solar :light:

contact solatron in victorville :light:

http://www.partsonsale.com/
carol@partsonsale.com is the mgr
they fix stuff right there if you have a problem
it's worth the drive to save on shipping
and see their place

most solar sales places work out of a garage or just dropship items
no support after the sale :mad:

you NEED to get a true-sinewave inverter
(no noise)
some appliances dont run on modified sinewave

power is the key :biggrin:

oxxo - 9-23-2007 at 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
number one get one of these...

killawatt

Bob, how does this thing work? How do you use it? I imagine it provides some sort of readout. How does that readout help you in your energy use? Thanks.

comitan - 9-23-2007 at 08:21 AM

Living off the grid is one big learning experience. :lol:

comitan - 9-23-2007 at 08:47 AM

Save your money read:

http://www.oksolar.com/technical/consumption.html

BigWooo - 9-23-2007 at 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bedman
Here's a few questions for those of you in the know Re: Solar. I know a little about solar, probably just enough to get me in trouble.

I've always thought I would buy and use a Propane frige. Reading the posts here I might be swayed to buy an electric one.

What is the daily wattage use of a decent smaller Refrigerator? (12 cu ft?)
How many 65 watt panels will be needed to supply this refrigerator?
How many X size batteries required to store that energy?
How large of an Inverter would be required/recommended to invert the 12 volt to 110?
.

I currently have 10 Grp 27 Gell Cell 12 volt batteries with a Capacity at C/100 99.5 (I get them free!!)

I have 6 Ea 65 watt panels. Roof mounted facing South.

Bedman

[Edited on 9-23-2007 by Bedman]

Bedman,

This website lists the kilowatt usage of several different model refrigerators: http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=refrig.search...

From my calculations a good energy efficient 14 or 15 cubic foot refrigerator uses about 1050 watts/day.

In calculating for the amount of solar panels and batteries I used the following criteria:

-I calculated for winter when there is less charging time. In the summer the fridge will use more watts, but to compensate, there is more charging time and fewer cloudy days.

-Fridge uses 1050 watts/day

-Three days of battery power storage to allow for a string of cloudy days (5 would be better).

-I'm assuming you're in BCS, if your panels are installed properly, you should have about 5 hours of peak charging/day in the winter.

-Your max battery discharge is not more than 50%.

-Average temp in the battery room in the 70's in the winter (cold batteries are less efficient).

For the fridge only, you will need an additional 5.2-65 watt panels and an additional 655 amps of battery capacity for three days of storage and 1092 extra amps for 5 days of storage.

I'd round up to the next highest number of solar panels, in other words 5.2 panels=6 panels.

If your batteries are 99.5 amp? You will need 7additional batteries for three days of power storage and 11 batteries for 5 days of extra amp storage.

Your 3000 watt inverter should be fine.

Also, adding more panels will probably exceed the capacity of your charge controller, so an additional cost to consider is an additional or larger charge controller.

For those who use 175 watt panels you would need 2.2 (recommend 3) extra panels. Same battery storage.

Also Bob reported his fridge uses 150 watts/hr, but the fridge motor is not running 24hrs a day, so you have to average the actual running time over 24 hours to get a true energy use figure.

I'm not a solar expert, I'm self taught, but I used the same calculations for our house and it worked out fine.

Al G - 9-23-2007 at 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bedman
Here's a few questions for those of you in the know Re: Solar. I know a little about solar, probably just enough to get me in trouble.

I've always thought I would buy and use a Propane frige. Reading the posts here I might be swayed to buy an electric one.

What is the daily wattage use of a decent smaller Refrigerator? (12 cu ft?)
How many 65 watt panels will be needed to supply this refrigerator?
How many X size batteries required to store that energy?
How large of an Inverter would be required/recommended to invert the 12 volt to 110?
.

I currently use the solar for low wattage 110 volt neon lights and for a 12 volt water pump.

I currently have 10 Grp 27 Gell Cell 12 volt batteries with a Capacity at C/100 99.5 (I get them free!!)

I have 6 Ea 65 watt panels. Roof mounted facing South.

I have a 3000 watt inverter, max 4500 Mod sine wave. (The true sine wave will/may come in the future.)

Bedman

[Edited on 9-23-2007 by Bedman]

Bedman...this may give you some ideals on solar refrigerators...at least the power consumption and panels...
http://www.partsonsale.com/sundanzer.html

Bob and Susan - 9-23-2007 at 11:54 AM

the killawatt is sold at your local "harbor freight"

about $30....cheaper on ebay if you want to wait

all you do is plug it into the socket and plug the appliance into it...

the readings show on the dial

real easy

this way you get a TRUE reading of what each piece of electrical equipment used

for example :
our trailer converter uses 700w
fridg 150w
freezer 150w
toaster oven 1500w
ice maker 700w
led lights 3w
9v converter charger for the camera 1w
one fan 55w 65w 80w
another fan 70w 80w 90w

Bob and Susan - 9-23-2007 at 12:10 PM

"Your max battery discharge is not more than 50%"

this is what everyone states
reality is ...

our 24v inverter will not work below 22.6volts
too much voltage drop...
and batteries do not charge above 25.6 new
(you can go to 26 but it wont stay)

so the reality is you can only use stored engery of about 3.0 volts of battery power
much less than half as i would calculate it ...

but...

i've read that this IS half....
different way of calculating what HALF is

complicated

all i know is experience
i had 20 - 100ah batteries
these could hold a current of the 150w fridge all night
they couldn't hold the charge for the added freezer

40 will hold the charge for both plus a few lights and computer play

the batteries are 3 years old with a life of 5 yrs

Al G - 9-23-2007 at 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
"Your max battery discharge is not more than 50%"

this is what everyone states
reality is ...

our 24v inverter will not work below 22.6volts
too much voltage drop...
and batteries do not charge above 25.6 new
(you can go to 26 but it wont stay)

so the reality is you can only use stored engery of about 3.0 volts of battery power
much less than half as i would calculate it ...

but...

i've read that this IS half....
different way of calculating what HALF is

You make a valid point...the operating voltage is not (in a 12v Bat.)
6v to 12v cannot be...there is some equipment that will function below 50%...but 50% is 11.2v to 13.2 with hot battery at 14.4...this depending on age

Edit...fumble fingers

[Edited on 9-23-2007 by Al G]

BigWooo - 9-23-2007 at 05:50 PM

I calculated a 50% drop to be 12v, 75% 12.3 and full charge over 12.6. I believe most of the older modified signwave inverters cut off at something below 12v so he should be fine. I think...

Bedman - 9-24-2007 at 01:14 AM

Bob,

Pretty cool gadget and I LOVE Harbor Freight. Maybe my downfall!
So far, we've only used the solar for lights. I imagine as we spend more time in Baja, we may need more solar and batteries, but I think I may stick with the LPG frige idea or Al G's 12 volt frige. If you haven't looked at it yet, take a peek, Pretty Cool. http://www.partsonsale.com/sundanzer.html

Comitan,

For me it's a "Learning Swerve!" The OKSolar site has some excellent info, Thanks.

BigWooo,

Exactly what I asked for. Great information and I thank you for all your effort.

Al G,

The Sun Danzer product looks Great. And requires a lot less solar equipment. This may be Exactly what I'm looking for. We really don't need a BIG frige. Just one large enough for a few days of storage. Thank you.

I'm still working at the last store and clearing things out. So kind of busy with that project for now. We'll be in BOLA sometime after the 10th of Oct. for four weeks or so and then back to the states for a month.....When we return for our Annual New Years party, I hope to have made a decision on what were going to do for refrigeration in the kitchen and will post our decision then.

Again, Thank you all for all the Great information and first hand advice.

Bedman

comitan - 9-24-2007 at 06:57 AM

Bedman

Also something else to consider, the last time I went north on Hwy 1, I'm sure they had power to the BOLA turnoff. Its just a matter of time, but its going to happen.

BajaWarrior - 9-24-2007 at 04:08 PM

I'm looking at that fridge on the website Bedman posted, nice fridge, great idea. Too bad it's a chest style instead of an upright. I am looking for a fridge, but don't want to add all those panels and extra batteries so we're actually considering propane or one of these chest style.

Totuga had asked about propane refrigiration, now I am too. I've seen some nice ones at RV Trailer Supply in El Cajon but they are pretty high in price. We're weekend'rs so we don't turn our fridge on every trip.

oladulce - 9-24-2007 at 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaWarrior
Totuga had asked about propane refrigiration, now I am too. I've seen some nice ones at RV Trailer Supply in El Cajon but they are pretty high in price. We're weekend'rs so we don't turn our fridge on every trip.

I don't know why propane refers cost so much, but you're right they're not cheap. I lucked out and found an almost new one one ebay and the pick up location was only about 20 miles away (at a nudist colony off of Ortega Hwy). Saved a couple hundred dollars at least.

We have the small Consul/Danby 7.8 CF model. They run about $1100 new by the time you tack on freight or the fuel you'd use to pick it up yourself.

The downside I see for your weekend use is the amount of time it takes to cool down to less than 40.° I've never timed it, but I'd say it's at least 4 hours (possibly longer) before we can transfer refrigerated items from the camper fridge to the Consul when we arrive in Baja.

Maybe somebody else has a more exact time frame for you, but it's something to consider. Your weekend trip may be half over before your fridge is cold enough to use.

Minnow - 9-24-2007 at 05:24 PM

Bob, I thought 6 volt golf cart batteries were the way to go. I have seen your set up. Very impressive, but.......

comitan - 9-24-2007 at 05:45 PM

Minnow

Marine(deepcycle) 2-4 year life cycle Discharge cycle 50%

Golf Cart Deep Cycle 6 v 4-8 year life cycle Real Lead Plates and an extra inch of space in the bottom for the sulfides. Discharge cycle 80%

I'm sure Bob had this info, and made his decision accordingly.

[Edited on 9-25-2007 by comitan]

Bedman - 9-24-2007 at 06:17 PM

Baja Warrior,

There is a "Used" RV yard in Ontario (I think) Called Walt's RV. I've been there a few times and have seen used RV friges. I've thought about buying one of them. I haven't gotten too far past the thinking stage. I have read where some people build a cabinet with lots of insulating foam around them. New they cost arounnd 1100 to 2400. Used, I've seen them as low as 500.

The cool down period for the frige in my motor home is about 4 to 6 hours. I think All propane friges take a while to get to that point. In my motor home I have a 35 gallon propane tank and it lasts about a month with the frige on. The frige cools down great. Freezer gets down to 0 degrees annd refer section gets down to 40 degrees. It's very consistant regardless of the outside temp.

here's Walt's RV Supplies website http://waltsrvsupplies9098230563.worldpages-ads.com/

Bedmann

Al G - 9-24-2007 at 09:49 PM

If you are considering new RV fridge...Norcold... is the answer. I bought a new from PPL motor home in Texas...$1050 delivered to Concord,CA. It is the tallest in 24"wide refers...62" high. This thing is the bomb...it is set on the very lowest setting and temp is 0 in freezer and 38 in the refer...it uses a 20# tank a month and on electric...???...my highest bill including all use has not been over $43 in three years (use propane in Baja and electric here)...Here is a link:
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-refrigerators/rv-refri...
WOW now they are $999...without door deco panels...these things hold more then my Dometric I replaced.
I intend to get a Sun danzer too for my homemade beer. I have solar for it now so not to much more cost, except new batteries...6 volt only...still do not understand why Bob went 12v Marine. It goes against what I know(not a lot) and have been told. Bob, can you give a link to these bad boys you settled on? would like to do some snooping...
BTW be very careful buying used...not just years old, but mileage on the rig is how you tell if it has been beaten up. Also there is a big difference in the newer refers...they just work better with super nice interiors.

Hook - 9-24-2007 at 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oladulce

Quote:

WOW.....you bought it from McConville!

oladulce - 9-24-2007 at 11:06 PM

Was that the name of the nudey place near El Carrizo Hook? They were closing the place down last year which is why the fridge was for sale.

Bob and Susan - 9-25-2007 at 05:44 AM

i ONLY started with 12 volt marine...
added them as i needed...

they are very easy to get down here...
that is the ONLY reason...

i NOW have 12v surettes..."BIG RED DOGS"

i chose 12 volt because of the amount of batteries i need
it would be DOUBLED if i went to 6v and i NEED the room
we have a 24v system

batteries are made much better now than the "old days"
and the (40-12v) "marines" did their job

the only problems i found with the smaller 12v "marines" were the MANY cables and corosion and the small water filling holes

comitan - 9-25-2007 at 07:04 AM

Yes Bob you jumped over the Golf cart, I do now remember you unloading the Surrette batteries.

Bob and Susan - 9-25-2007 at 08:11 AM

yea ...
first i had 8 batteries...just enough for lights when we were there

then 16...more power with a small apt fridg

then 32 fridg and icemaker

then 40 added the freezer

it just NEVER ends when you're "HOOKED" on POWER :lol: