BajaNomad - Baja Site Eyed for Tourism Project

Baja Site Eyed for Tourism Project

bajabound2005 - 10-4-2007 at 06:20 AM

Baja site eyed for tourism project

Proposals discussed at Tijuana summit
By Sandra Dibble
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

October 4, 2007

TIJUANA – The Mexican tourism agency behind the development of major resorts such as Cancun and Los Cabos is now setting its sights on the sparsely populated Gulf of California region for its next mega-project.
Miguel Gómez Montt, director general of Fonatur, said in an interview yesterday that his agency is studying 10 areas on the gulf, hoping to “choose one and promote it.”

“We need to build three Cancuns, and we are analyzing where we could do so, and one of them could be in this zone,” said Gómez Montt, who discussed his agency's upcoming project during an investment summit promoting the Gulf of California.

Baja California is one of the four states being studied for the possible project.

The three-day summit, which opened yesterday at Tijuana's Grand Hotel, is sponsored by the Baja California government with support from Fonatur and state governments in northwest Mexico with coastlines on the gulf.

The Baja California Meeting Point event brings together developers, consultants, government officials, and others with interest in developing the region, much of it sparsely populated and environmentally fragile. Mexico's tourism secretary, Rodolfo Elizondo, and Gómez Montt were among the featured speakers.

In Baja California, Fonatur is focusing on the area between Bahia San Luis Gonzaga and Bahia de los Angeles on the states' east coast. The region is known for its stark beauty and broad vistas of the Gulf of California, also called the Sea of Cortez.

The sparsely populated gulf is prized by environmentalists and scientists for its rich marine life and many endemic species. In 2005, 244 islands in the gulf were designated a United Nations World Heritage site. Earlier this year, President Felipe Calderon's administration designated the marine region off Bahia de los Angeles as a Biosphere Reserve.

“We have heard many stories of mega-projects in the Gulf of California, but it's clear that they are not viable,” said Gustavo Danemann, executive director of Pronatura Noroeste, a branch of Mexico's oldest and largest environmental organization.

A scarce water supply limits development in much of the region, and desalination has yet to be a proven as a large-scale solution, Danemann said. In addition, “any project would have to comply with environmental regulations,” he said.

Environmental groups for years have been critical of another Fonatur project, the Escalera Nautica, which was launched in 2001 by former President Vicente Fox.

The plan originally envisioned attracting 50,000 boats and 1 million tourists annually to the region though a series of 28 linked marinas and an 80-mile road to tow boats across the middle of the peninsula, between Santa Rosalillita on Baja California's Pacific Coast and Bahia de los Angeles.

The plan was later renamed Proyecto Mar de Cortes and significantly downscaled. Yesterday, Gómez Montt said he expects the project will proceed next year, with 11 small nautical stations where boats can find fuel, water and other necessities.

“They're stops, not marinas, just for people passing through,” Gómez Montt said.

Fonatur has for years been trying to find land for a marina in Bahia de los Angeles. Gómez Montt said the Baja California government has given Fonatur a piece of land in the town and that his agency hopes to build its facility there next year.

Guillermo Acosta, an official of Singlar, the Fonatur subsidiary in charge of developing the project, said the agency plans to build 20 slips at Bahia de los Angeles. Singlar is also preparing to build 20 stops on the Pacific Ocean at Santa Maria, north of Santa Rosalillita, to allow smaller boats to refuel on their way down the coast.

But at least in Bahia de Los Angeles, Pronatura's Danemann said Fonatur has yet to obtain an environmental permit from Mexico's federal government, which is necessary before construction can begin.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sandra Dibble: (619) 293-1716; sandra.dibble@uniontrib.com

shari - 10-4-2007 at 07:30 AM

Another little tidbit or gossip from the wild west coast side, there are 2 different international corporations trying to buy all ejido land between Punta Prieta and San Pablo , all the beaches and 2 km inland as well... :barf:

which is an enormous area which includes San Roque area and the secret surf spot too...oh my word! There was a big meeting yesterday and the town was all abuzz with the news.....the ejiditarios have big $$$$ signs in their glazed eyes....weird...

Osprey - 10-4-2007 at 07:59 AM

Shari, Let's all hope these developers have done their homework. All water in Baja California Sur comes from rain. They can't duplicate Cancun here, in the Sonoran desert (Cancun gets 56 inches of rain, Mulege gets 6) because desal still has too many problems. Here in East Cape I'm hoping somebody in authority will find out how old our water in the wells is to find out how long it takes to get from rain in the mountains to water in the well. If you don't know that and the recharge rate you are rolling the dice for all the people in the region when you overtap the aquifir. I'm old and won't see the mess of the water wars to come -- it is a paradise and everybody who loves the desert will be vying for it with a passion.

Diver - 10-4-2007 at 08:01 AM

How much for San Roque' ???
I will be the first to chip in for a Nomad paradise !!
This is some of the nicest Pacific coastline and best fishing in Baja !
Anyone else interested ??

.

flyfishinPam - 10-4-2007 at 08:12 AM

Why does FONATUR need to "build three Cancuns"?

Shari as a person like myself waiting for my tramite de naturalizacion to be approved, what do you think will happen when Mexico sells out all of its natural resources and beautiful coastal lands?

I see the ejiditarios with $$$ in their eyes here too and when they sell off a parcel it is spent just as quickly as it came to them. Imagine a tarpaper shack with a plasma TV inside a brand new car yet they can't seem to come up with the scratch to send their kids to prepatoria! I would LOVE to see these people educated as this is the heart of Mexico's problems and it always has been.

flyfishinPam - 10-4-2007 at 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
Shari, Let's all hope these developers have done their homework. All water in Baja California Sur comes from rain. They can't duplicate Cancun here, in the Sonoran desert (Cancun gets 56 inches of rain, Mulege gets 6) because desal still has too many problems. Here in East Cape I'm hoping somebody in authority will find out how old our water in the wells is to find out how long it takes to get from rain in the mountains to water in the well. If you don't know that and the recharge rate you are rolling the dice for all the people in the region when you overtap the aquifir. I'm old and won't see the mess of the water wars to come -- it is a paradise and everybody who loves the desert will be vying for it with a passion.

How do you find out how old the water is? I've never looked into it.

flyfishinPam - 10-4-2007 at 08:27 AM

Ok in a quick search I come up with C14 and H tests to determine the age of water in wells.

On looking into the costs I don't have much tima as I gotta run but here's a link which lists severl analytical labs throughout the US that can do it:

http://www.ecologycenter.org/directory/results.php?sFAQ=wate...

I have some friends at some of these and will contact when I can, boy will they be surprized at what I'm doing now and where I am!

shari - 10-4-2007 at 08:30 AM

Yes Pam it IS a huge concern to us...all of us...including the locals here...our water source is now being tapped out by Los Pinos who have moved in big time to Vizcaino (our water source) and we get SO little rain here...much less than on the gulf side. The problem is the ejidos are new and this land they are selling doesn't belong to any one person and they just don't use it so they want to sell it so maybe they CAN send their kids to school...perhaps you are judging some too harshly as folks I have talked to have plans for this $$ llike schooling, fixing up their shacks finally and getting a safer car...all necessary items here and give em a break on the tv's as there isn't much for these folks to do here...poor mom is stuck in her casita and her only joy is watching the dramatic soap operas so gee...she kinda needs her tv...when you really think about it, these poor people need a good car to go visit the family and go to appointments...see they don't really care much about the appearance of their homes...just a place to eat and sleep and watch tv...they don't entertain...don't have to keep up with the Joneses either...it's just a different game here....not like ours...and we have to try to understand it, not judge it by our standards, accept it and maybe try to help in some way that is non offending. these people have lived hand to mouth their entire lives and in this part of the world they are around 40 years behind the times. Also the culture here is very "today" based...they buy food to eat today and live in the moment because ya never know what will happen tomorrow...they aren't planners, don't have savings accounts, rrsp, pensions etc....so if they have a chance to sell something that was given to them, that they don't even know where it is, well, they will sell it now to get what they need now and not wait a few years in hopes the price will go up or whatever....so give em a chance and try to comprehend where THEY are coming from.

wilderone - 10-4-2007 at 08:49 AM

Years ago the opinion was expressed regarding Escalera Nautica that its purpose was to instigate a huge land grab. That happened to some extent in spite of the Escalera Nautica project petering out. When commenting on Loreto's development, FONATUR said that it would be sensitive to the environment, no more Cancuns, etc. Now they're back to promoting the land grab and building more Cancuns. Too many development proposals have been announced, and then never heard from again. Remember this? "Fadesa Inmobiliaria SA, a Spanish real estate company, will build a 4 billion euro ($5.4 billion) resort in Mexico, adding to three other projects the developer has in that Latin American country. The complex will be located in Loreto, in the Mexican state of Baja California Sur, and will include more than 6,500 homes, a marina, hotels and golf courses." And Sonny whatshisname - with his casino south of San Felipe? And the eviction of trailer park inhabitants? Fences and signs going up keeping people off beaches due to new ownership. "Choose one and promote it." That's the extent of the business plan. Enough greed to make the money flow regardless.

flyfishinPam - 10-4-2007 at 09:24 AM

Shari,
yes I do find myself with my new england upbringing judgemental. No I can't understand someone who can afford to keep themselves in cold tecates while their children are not in school because they "can't afford it". its an excuse and defeatism. In order to become a citizen we are supposedly required to know the history of Mexico. well I have read it several times and the same message comes out, not sure if I got the quote completely correct but Benito Juarez said something like if our people hadn't been convinced to keep buying candles for the virgen and had made education a priority we wouldn't be in such a mess in my many studies on Mexican history this is always the problem. people are taken advantage of when they don't understand the consequences of their own actions or the decisions of their leaders. this is always the case. I would like to remind people that they do have rights and there are alternate ways to continue on that deviate from their set ways. and I do not think I am offending anyone by making education a priority.

shari - 10-4-2007 at 09:36 AM

I agree Pam, I find myself constantly shaking my head at how alcoholism overrides education...when there is no cash paycheck, the coops here will make beer available on credit but not school uniforms or books!!! When the paychecks do come in, the families are up to their eyeballs in booze bills and have little left over...I do believe it is convenient for the powers that be to keep em liquored up and ignorant to avoid revolution. But when I try to discuss these issues, I get the avoid the issue sideways galnces, shifting in their seats, gotta go make dinner....basically "BUTT OUT" response.

flyfishinPam - 10-4-2007 at 09:48 AM

But DON'T butt out. speak with the mujeres they are the ones that really need this kind of talking to. they are interesting once you can get them off the subject of those utterly stupido tele novelas. I do understand that I can't have the same kind of conversations with them as I can with other people but when I keep in mind that this is the beginning I am eager to talk. I also talk to their children as they come around to play with ours. They look at my biology books and ask questions, they ask questions about English and other places. sorry to say but the men are useless, its the women who have kept it together here and now they need to understand that they have the power. they just hve to get over their lack of confidence. its a lot like the women's liberaton movement of yes, about 40 years ago. I had wanted to write a story about "women chained to the washboard" which means many things to me, but in my having to work I merely think about it, however I have convinced many of the wasted time and high water useage and they have bought electric washing machines! and are now free to do some other things. gawd I gotta go! signing out for the day.

DianaT - 10-4-2007 at 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
Another little tidbit or gossip from the wild west coast side, there are 2 different international corporations trying to buy all ejido land between Punta Prieta and San Pablo , all the beaches and 2 km inland as well... :barf:

No doubt about it, Punta Preta to San Pablo is just magnificent --- it is why we are here.

These things always produce such mixed feelings. I do understand why and how development can benefit the locals. On the other hand, I can´t help but dislike the idea of mega resorts. :no:

Shari,
We also wonder about the water problems, and what about the Reserve --- can´t imagine they wouldn´t fight it. Keep us informed, please. While I would prefer development between here and San Roque like Fernando wants to do on his land, the cabanas, palapas etc., I can´t blame these people for looking at the $$$. They do need it.

BYW, Fernando is doing very nice metal work for us.

We will continue to enjoy this area as it is for now, and see what the future brings.

Not everyone likes it in this area because we do get wind and it is much cooler than the other side, but we really do suggest that anyone who loves the wide open beaches and miles of emptiness, come and visit this area now.

We are learning more about the people here everyday and would like to see them have a bright future----so, such mixed feelings regarding mega-development.

Diane

shari - 10-4-2007 at 10:25 AM

I would love to see the local people here do some local based development projects but capital is the problem...we can help by supporting them, helping them fulfill their dream...that is why I am helping locals sell some of their properties...to help them get some capital together to do other things...they are gonna sell anyway, so if we can get a bunch of "small potato" nomads to buy here, maybe just maybe we can avoid corporate condo developments etc. and have a nice little village of cool folks living their dream. So it would be awesome if that 16 hectars just north of san roque could be bought by beach campers!

[Edited on 10-4-2007 by shari]

Skipjack Joe - 10-4-2007 at 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
How much for San Roque' ???
I will be the first to chip in for a Nomad paradise !!
This is some of the nicest Pacific coastline and best fishing in Baja !
Anyone else interested ??

.

I would be interested.

Hook - 10-4-2007 at 11:06 AM

I would be interested.........and I havent even been there.

Bajagypsy - 10-4-2007 at 11:11 AM

Quote:

I'm in as well, seriously the mot beautiful place around

[Edited on 10-4-2007 by Bajagypsy]

shari - 10-4-2007 at 11:29 AM

Maybe a Nomad coop would be cool there...I'll see if I can find out the price of this chunk.

Cap - 10-4-2007 at 11:59 AM

I wouldn't be too worried about mega development on the pacific side of Baja. There is no water, It is hard to get to, there would be too many hands out, and it is cold in the winter. Cancun gets rain true, but it is sitting on a HUGE amount of water, nice underground lakes litter the penninsula. Cancun is warm year round, I cannot picture northern tourists bringing coats on Mexican vacation. Also, the Yucatan hasn't reached it's saturation point yet. Investment money will flow into that proven area for quite some time. "Cancun" will eventually stretch from Isla Holbox to Xcalak. Los Cabos is a different story, I wouldn't put it past someone to drag an iceberg down to help develop that area!

Dave - 10-4-2007 at 01:52 PM

If a large foreign corporation wants to buy up miles of coastline you're not gonna stop it. These large transactions cannot happen without joint state/federal government approval which means someone's gonna get paid...big time.

What can happen is this:

Local municipalities can exercise their rights by directing/limiting development and negotiating real benefits from developers. If local citizens govern responsibly they can dictate favorable terms that will guarantee the education, health and safety of their children and protect the viability of their communities.

Personal experience tells me that in Mexico, not one spade of earth is turned nor one brick laid without a local building permit.

Minnow - 10-4-2007 at 02:07 PM

On the waters edge of La Paz a new hotel was going up, and it looked very expensive. Probably the airplanes will bring weekenders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a Floridian ugliness.

John Steinbeck, "The Log From The Sea of Cortez" 1958

:lol:

Paulina - 10-4-2007 at 02:19 PM

Minnow,
That is a good quote there.

I remember when talk of golf courses being planned for Cabo was a laughing matter.

Where will they come up with the land in the Bay of LA? I kind of wonder what Pres. Fox's wife was thinking when she picked up that large chunk in La Gringa? I don't claim to know any details, just curious to see how it all turns out.

It makes me wish I were living there now while it's still 'the good old days' of today. I have a sinking feeling that we may see changes during our lifetime that are not so good.

P<*))))><

DENNIS - 10-4-2007 at 03:09 PM

Minnow / Paulina.......

They're building a gas station half way between La Jolla and Maneadero. There's some progress for you. Oh, yeah.... Choix Pizza by La Jolla. This place is in the throes of development.
I don't know where you guys are today so, if you're out of town, I'll keep you posted.

shari - 10-5-2007 at 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
If local citizens govern responsibly

Local citizens govern responsibly???? Ha! Aint gonna happen...I think you are right with your take on development on this cold, windy west coast...I sincerely hope it doesnt happen, but I have seen it happen in alot worse climates than here...maybe not hotels here but I bet a crapload of condos get built soon...the views are just too spectacular..plus when the weather is cool, you can put a jacket on...what about the gulf side in summer...you cant go outside cause it's too darn hot...same thing is it not??? I guess it's a matter of too hot or too cold...but for many of us who live here the 60's isn't too cold!

Cap - 10-5-2007 at 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari

Quote:

Please don't take this as a negative comment on the area it was not meant that way. Your views are very nice, I was not comparing areas of Baja.

The point is that there are more suitable climates with better weather , water, access, infrastructure, and less palm greasing in which to invest large sums of money.
La Paz and Florida are not a close comparison either. When MILLIONS of snow birds retire in La Paz and build condos in huge tracts let me know.
Yes, there are a few golf courses and Big Hotels in Los Cabos. But for a place that has been developing roughly the same amount of time as Cancun, it is much smaller.
Don't worry too much about HUGE mega developments in Baja. Don't worry too much about tropical storms in latin America. These are over hyped topics. They do allow people to wring their hands about change, and lament about how much better things were in the good ol' days.

DianaT - 10-5-2007 at 04:27 PM

Talked to a couple of other people today and they confirmed what Shari posted about the international companies wanting all that land.

We have little doubt that it could happen----lots of money, power, etc., however, if it does, it won´t be fast.

Climate wise, yes it is cool and windy, but with wind barriers, hotels, etc., could have nice, very warm swimming pools---soon as they figure out where to get the water. It will be interesting to see what happens and who is happy about it, and who is not. Also, we still wonder about the power of the Reserve to stop development.

The weather here can actually be quite hot at times in town, and it is only as we cross over the little hill that the wind cools the air.

We agree with those of you who think San Roque is REALLY beautiful. We love driving out there and to the beaches along the way.

Really do hope that there can be local control for the benefit of the community as a whole.

DENNIS - 10-5-2007 at 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter
We have little doubt that it could happen----lots of money, power, etc., however, if it does, it won´t be fast.

Hope you're right, Diane. Foriegn investors probably won't be as patient as Mexican planners.

DianaT - 10-6-2007 at 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter
We have little doubt that it could happen----lots of money, power, etc., however, if it does, it won´t be fast.

Hope you're right, Diane. Foriegn investors probably won't be as patient as Mexican planners.

We just hope they don´t own any drums. :lol:

Diane

CaboRon - 10-11-2007 at 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
I agree Pam, I find myself constantly shaking my head at how alcoholism overrides education...when there is no cash paycheck, the coops here will make beer available on credit but not school uniforms or books!!! When the paychecks do come in, the families are up to their eyeballs in booze bills and have little left over...I do believe it is convenient for the powers that be to keep em liquored up and ignorant to avoid revolution. But when I try to discuss these issues, I get the avoid the issue sideways galnces, shifting in their seats, gotta go make dinner....basically "BUTT OUT" response.

Shari,

So true, so true.

This is why the these people are living a hundred years in the past...... I don't have much hope in any change anytime soon.

And it really is none of our business.

Nothing unusual here, it is endemic in third world countries.

That's why they remain third world countries.

Checked out Africa lately ?

- CaboRon

bajamigo - 10-11-2007 at 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Minnow / Paulina.......

They're building a gas station half way between La Jolla and Maneadero. There's some progress for you. Oh, yeah.... Choix Pizza by La Jolla. This place is in the throes of development.
I don't know where you guys are today so, if you're out of town, I'll keep you posted.

More "progress:" now that the ejido lands around here are being privatized, they're not converting them to agricultural usage. Instead, signs advertising "LOTES" are springing up like mushrooms. I guess that's a faster way to the pickup truck purchase than a longer-term asset, like a farm.