BajaNomad - Evaporation - Is it an issue

Evaporation - Is it an issue

Alan - 10-4-2007 at 08:36 AM

We finally have a vacation home in Baja and were talking with a friend who has a vacation home along the Colorado River. He said whenever he leaves he places several containers of water throughout the house. He said it helps to add a little humidity so everything doesn't get so dry in their summer heat. Being closer he is able to get to his place much more often than I can get to mine in BCS but it started me wondering about the traps in the drains of my place. Is it an issue? Does the water in the drains evaporate allowing sewer gases to enter the house? If so, can something be done to prevent it. I remember it happening to a house in my neighbor that had stood vacant for a long while. It actually smelled like someone had died in there.

What do others do?

[Edited on 10-4-2007 by Alan]

vandenberg - 10-4-2007 at 08:45 AM

I've heard of people putting mineral oil on the drain and toiletbowl water surfaces to prevent evaporation.

Having said that, couldn't mineral oil be substituted for any kind of liquid that floats on water ?? Dieselfuel :?:

Mineral oil fairly expensive comparing to other kinds.
I should know, have used it for years to keep my old pooch regular.

Traps

tuna stick - 10-4-2007 at 08:50 AM

What? Traps in BCS? Where did those come from? :biggrin:

bajalou - 10-4-2007 at 08:53 AM

Don't want to use something that will harm the septic system. I put a little cooking oil in all the drains before I leave for an extended period.

Riom - 10-4-2007 at 09:17 AM

Cover the toilet pans with clingfilm or plastic bags, stops them drying out. But remember to remove before use when you return...

oladulce - 10-4-2007 at 12:21 PM

uh-oh. Maybe we've just been lucky so far so I'll mention this to the family plumber. Thanks.

bajajudy - 10-4-2007 at 01:12 PM

Before we moved down, we would always leave the bathroom window open...not worried about evaporation but humidity if it rained.
Never really thought about evaporation as a problem. It sure is a good thing for the septic system.

DanO - 10-4-2007 at 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajajudy
It sure is a good thing for the septic system.

Agree. Besides, the smell is only a problem if your poop stinks.
:barf:

docsmom - 10-5-2007 at 07:01 PM

I've been in the new home business for 25 years. We build model (show)homes that may sit for 2 to 5 years without any "plumbing use" during that time. In our models we pour some anitfreeze in all the the drains. Before we discovered this we would open the models daily for months and everything would be fine. One day we'd walk in and be overcome by the sewer gasses. (DanO, loved your response, and I'm quite certain mine doesn't stink, but there are other issues

). We used to just pour water down the drains and flush all the toilets, but it was a regular, occuring problem for us. Once we started to use antifreeze the problem basically went away.
I can't really comment on whether antifreeze would cause any damage to a septic system. Maybe someone here with plumbing knowledge could comment on that. We used the antifreeze solution when we were in a septic area but we didn't own the properties for 20 - 25 years and don't know if eventually it was unwise.
I'd be interested to hear from an expert on this.

Bob and Susan - 10-5-2007 at 07:10 PM

antifreeze is poison

if the dog drinks from the toilet...that's it

you polute if you use antifreeze

Minnow - 10-5-2007 at 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by docsmom
I've been in the new home business for 25 years. We build model (show)homes that may sit for 2 to 5 years without any "plumbing use" during that time. In our models we pour some anitfreeze in all the the drains. Before we discovered this we would open the models daily for months and everything would be fine. One day we'd walk in and be overcome by the sewer gasses. (DanO, loved your response, and I'm quite certain mine doesn't stink, but there are other issues

Where do you live? You need to be reported. :?:

DENNIS - 10-5-2007 at 07:48 PM

You should have your model plumber castrated for not properly venting the drains. That is how a septic system breathes rather than through your drains and toilets into the house.

capn.sharky - 10-5-2007 at 08:19 PM

I cover my shower drains with a bucket. This has nothing to do with evaporation but with c-ckroaches coming in after the drains are dry. The air in Baja Sur is humid in the summer months so that is not a problem there. However, in the Arizona desert, we used to place buckets full of water in the house if we were going to be gone a long time.

docsmom - 10-5-2007 at 08:23 PM

Wow! I'd like this thread to continue and offer some realistic answers for homeowners who leave their homes unattended for several months. The elimination of sewer gasses was all I was commenting on. So please let me clarify my comments before I get blasted here!
Bob & Susan, of course I know I anitfreeze is a toxic, a kidney killer to our animals! Please read below.
Minnow, reported for what?
Dennis, castrate the plummer?
Did you guys not read my post fully?

EVERYONE, I WAS COMMENTING ON HOW TO TAKE CARE OF A PROBLEM WHEN YOU LEAVE YOUR RESIDENCE VACANT FOR SEVERAL MONTHS! NOT WHEN YOU'RE LIVING THERE!!!!!!!!!

I ALSO ASKED FOR COMMENTS FROM SOMEONE WHO KNEW MORE ABOUT PLUMBING THAN I KNOW.

My experience is that you float a bit of anitfreeze in the pipe so there'
s a barrier for the evaporation. If you something I don't, please share it.

WHY'D YOU ATTTACK ME???????????

Paulina - 10-5-2007 at 08:24 PM

We put 5 gal. buckets full of water in the trailers every time we leave. We've never had problems with unwanted creatures or smells crawling up, only wood paneling peeling down, that is until we starting leaving the water.

P<*)))><

Bajagypsy - 10-6-2007 at 08:36 AM

docsmom,

When we had a cabin in northern saskatchewan, we allways drained the water from our toilets, sinks, showers etc and then put antifreeze in them as well. It was to stop the sewer gases, and if by any chance there was still water in the lines, the lines wouldn't burst. -40 degree C weather, tends to burst pipes with water in them.

When we got to the cabin, we would turn on the water, flush out the lines and bingo we were good to go.

bajajudy - 10-6-2007 at 09:02 AM

Do Not use antifreeze in a septic system....period!

Alan - 10-6-2007 at 10:43 AM

I live up at a little over 6,000' so I know about weekenders draining their lines and using anti-freeze to keep pipes from freezing. I was more curious about the water in the traps evaporating in the heat. Apparently it isn't as much as an issue as I thought it might be or there would be more solutions offered. I intend to try the cooking oil in the trap trick and I imagine that all of my cabinet doors would benefit if I left some containers of water throughout the place.

For DanO - It is not mine that is of concern. It is everybody else's that is so atrocious! :lol:

bajaguy - 10-6-2007 at 10:54 AM

You might try using boat/RV antifreeze. It is non-toxic.

DENNIS - 10-6-2007 at 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by docsmom
Dennis, castrate the plummer?

Well, maybe not totally but, if the builder didn't put vents in, you will have problems.
Back to the issue of vented drain pipes......if they are vented, and you can usually tell by a plastic pipe sticking through you roof or running up the side of the house, you may want to seal those as well to minimize evaporation.
For sure I wouldn't be putting lethal chemistry in my septic tank. Anti-freeze will kill a dog so it will certainly kill all beneficial life in a septic system. You have to be kind and gentle with those little critters and they will do their job efficiently.

bajaguy - 10-6-2007 at 11:15 AM

The RV anti-freeze is ment to be used in the water lines and drains of an RV or home. It is non-toxic to humans and animals

DENNIS - 10-6-2007 at 11:18 AM

Thanks Terry....

I wasn't ignoring you back there, we cross- posted.
I hadn't heard of non-toxic anti-freeze.

bajaguy - 10-6-2007 at 11:21 AM

Yup, at auto supply/RV/Wal Mart stores, It's pink in color. About $1.50 a gallon on sale this time of year.

Alan - 10-6-2007 at 02:44 PM

So anti-freeze doesn't evaporate????

or has freezing become an issue in Baja?

What happened to global warming???

BajaBruno - 10-7-2007 at 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by docsmom

WHY'D YOU ATTTACK ME???????????

Good question, DocsMom--I can't explain it, either.

However, a little info on antifreeze. Although the stuff is potentially lethal to adult humans in volumes as low as 3 ounces, it is not regulated as a hazardous material by the EPA or DOT. Ethylene glycol, the major component of antifreeze, is commonly used to de-ice airplanes and runways, and testing has shown rapid biodegradation in the environment and little likelihood to accumulate or cause harm to aquatic organisms at the concentrations described in this thread.

As for evaporation, the vapor pressure of ethylene glycol is very low, so evaporation should be slow, but it mixes readily with water, rather than floating on the surface, so it won’t prevent the water from evaporating. You would need to use enough pure antifreeze to maintain the integrity of the water trap, which is a lot of liquid if there are less expensive solutions. Antifreeze works well to keep pipes from freezing, but I would find another solution to evaporation of the plumbing water trap.

Drain vents. I suspect, though I don’t know, that every municipality in the US requires and inspects vented drains by code, but even the most perfect vents, if the water gap is dry, will not prevent gasses from invading the living space.

To those who worry that the dog will drink the antifreeze from the toilet, I can only suggest my ex-wife’s request that one restore the toilet lid to its designed position while not using it, and don’t leave the dog in the building while you go away for months at a time.

docsmom - 10-7-2007 at 11:39 AM

Quote:

Where do you live? You need to be reported. :?:

Minnow, I'm your neighbor buddy. I live right here in the city of neon. It's happening all around you. You still haven't explained your problem with the solution I offered. Care to comment?

Gypsy, thanks for your comments. I once lived in a mountain ski community and antifreeze was used there by the vacation home owners as well.

Bruno,
"To those who worry that the dog will drink the antifreeze from the toilet, I can only suggest my ex-wife’s request that one restore the toilet lid to its designed position while not using it, and don’t leave the dog in the building while you go away for months at a time. " Touche!
And thanks for your info on the scientifics of anti-freeze. We use it because it helps to a certain extent, certainly better than just water. And we never use it in the toilets. We just flush them from time to time. It would be great if we could find a more long term solution.

I'm thinking about the oil suggestion. Oil goes rancid and I'm wondering if that could also cause an odiferous problem????

edinnopolo - 10-7-2007 at 11:54 AM

Quote:

I'm thinking about the oil suggestion. Oil goes rancid and I'm wondering if that could also cause an odiferous problem????

I don't think that applies to mineral oil. :?:

Minnow - 10-7-2007 at 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by docsmom
We build model (show)homes that may sit for 2 to 5 years without any "plumbing use" during that time. In our models we pour some anitfreeze in all the the drains.

What kind of tracts are you sitting. :lol:

For the life of me I cannot figure out where a new home has sat in the valley for 2 to 5 years, and my family has been in the real estate business here since 1965.

We have used anti freeze in the pipes for our house in Mt Charleston so they do not freeze. Not in the drains and we are on septic.

I kind of remember you posting that you live in vegas. It is illegal to put anti freeze into the sewer system here. That is why you should be reported. Being a real estate professional you should know that.

Bajaguy is right though. They do sell a eco friendly anti freeze. But that is a relatively recent invention. I cannot imagine it was around when homes, that were for sale, sat vacant for 2 to 5 years. How long after the last ice age was that anyway>?

Tom Stafford GLVAR public ID # 098100

BajaBruno - 10-7-2007 at 08:20 PM

Some "Eco friendly " antifreezes are made of Propylene glycol, a chemical that is less toxic to humans. Others just have "eco friendly" names and are still made with Ethylene glycol.

However, EdInNopolo is correct that mineral oil could be a solution to Alan's original question. Biologists commonly use a film of mineral oil to prevent water evaporation in a wide variety of testing procedures and it should work in the home without the nasty connotations of antifreeze.

Now, if I just had a few graduated cylinders at hand, I'd be happy to do an informal experiment to see just how much mineral oil would be required to keep a P-trap full . . . :?:

Probably not much.

Alan - 10-8-2007 at 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBruno

However, EdInNopolo is correct that mineral oil could be a solution to Alan's original question. Biologists commonly use a film of mineral oil to prevent water evaporation in a wide variety of testing procedures and it should work in the home without the nasty connotations of antifreeze.

Thank you. This is the most logical answer I have heard and one that I will definitely try. Someone reminded me that cooking oil can turn rancid. The sumer camps in my area use mineral oil on all of their butcher block counters and cutting boards in their kitchens when they close for the winter to prevent drying.

I'm still not sure it is a problem as no one else seems to have experienced it except for those model homes that sat idle for quite a while. Of course you only have to smell that odor once to make one want to ensure they never smell it again. :lol:

Chris,
I'll be flying in on the 20th for week. Hopefully we can get together. I still owe you lots of margaritas and maybe we can even wet a line.

BajaBruno - 10-8-2007 at 09:39 AM

I'll be ready for those margaritas, Alan! I fished around Punta Pescadero this weekend and did pretty well. I couldn't find tuna or marlin, but the dorado were thick.