BajaNomad - Making Compost

Making Compost

DianaT - 10-13-2007 at 05:16 PM

Both of us have had compost piles, boxes, etc. in the past, but we always had yard waste----lawn clippings etc. to add to the kitchen waste we used.

Now with the Baja house, we will have no lawn and no other clippings until we get some things to grow.

So, has anyone created compost without yard clippings?

Thanks
Diane and John

[Edited on 10-14-2007 by jdtrotter]

Bajalero - 10-13-2007 at 06:35 PM

Doesn't shari have a horse?

http://www.leps.bc.ca/compmanure.html

oladulce - 10-13-2007 at 06:38 PM

Mind if I throw a question in your compost heap Diane?

I haven't considered composting because I can barely keep half a step ahead of the ants as it is. How does one collect table scraps for composting without starting an ant farm?

DianaT - 10-13-2007 at 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajalero
Doesn't shari have a horse?

http://www.leps.bc.ca/compmanure.html

Good idea, but I just can't stand the idea of using the horse poop

Ants---have not seen any yet---mice, a scorpion, flies, and some other misc. creatures, but no ants yet.

I saw on line a really cute crock for collecting kitchen waste, but not sure if it would be ant proof.

Bob and Susan - 10-13-2007 at 07:10 PM

we just planted some stuff and got cow manure
we mixed it with good soil fron the mulege valley

the dogs LOVE it :lol:

goat manure works too...no more goats around this area

also i was talking to some of the "boys" and they said they have "organic gardens" in mulege that use "bat poop" (guano)

this stuff is supposed really makes the plants really grow

edit spell again

[Edited on 10-14-2007 by Bob and Susan]

woody with a view - 10-13-2007 at 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
we just planted some stuff and got cow manure
we mixed it with good soil fron the mulege valley

the dogs LOVE it :lol:

now, if it would only rain! :lol:

Bob and Susan - 10-14-2007 at 05:55 AM

we're DONE with rain!!!

it rained 4 TIMES this summer already!!! :lol:

now it's COLD!!!

75 FREEZING-DEGREES this morning
87 yesterday afternoon

shari - 10-14-2007 at 08:48 AM

We do have an old dried up, ready to go compost of years old horse dung and chicken poo too which would mix nicely with the sand for your new plants. Also that mesquite mix you find under mesquite trees is awesome.

DianaT - 10-14-2007 at 08:57 AM

We have looked at where people dig around the mesquite trees, and even the owner of that great nursery near Vizcaino told us to use mesquite dirt and we will.

Just out of curiosity, are there any dirt experts out there who can tell us why that dirt is so much better. Is it better to begin with so that is why the mesquites grow there, or do they add something to the soil.

Diane

[Edited on 10-14-2007 by jdtrotter]

Bajalero - 10-14-2007 at 09:09 AM

Quote:

Good idea, but I just can't stand the idea of using the horse poop

Oakey dokey,

Sounds like your only hope is shredded newspaper and worms

But then the worms poop too.

Quite a conundrum :lol:

Quote:

Just out of curiosity, are there any dirt experts out there who can tell us why that dirt is so much better. Is it better to begin with so that is why the mesquites grow there, or do they add something to the soil.

It's the organic matter JD , the leaves fall to the ground and the weevils and worms and fungus and bacteria eat it and poop out concentrated organic matter .

vandenberg - 10-14-2007 at 09:33 AM

So JD, in short,
"ANY" kind o'poop will do. :biggrin:

DianaT - 10-14-2007 at 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajalero

Quote:

Good idea, but I just can't stand the idea of using the horse poop

Oakey dokey,

Sounds like your only hope is shredded newspaper and worms

But then the worms poop too.

Quite a conundrum :lol:

Quote:

It's the organic matter JD , the leaves fall to the ground and the weevils and worms and fungus and bacteria eat it and poop out concentrated organic matter .

But worm poop is so much smaller. :lol:

I assumed that the dropping leaves, worms etc. made the mesquite soil better, but I still wonder what it is in the soil that makes them grow in certain areas and not in others. But then again, I wonder about the conditions needed for all the different Baja desert fauna---especially when there are lots of one thing like cardons, and then just one of something else, like an elephant tree.

Off topic, but had to do with plants. We were surprised and very happy that Los Pinos in the San Quintin area is removing the salt cedars! Those babies need to go. :yes:

Diane

Had to edit quick before the spelling police arrived----next it will be the grammar police. :rolleyes:

[Edited on 10-14-2007 by jdtrotter]

Iflyfish - 10-14-2007 at 09:53 AM

Go scrape the rocks around there, that is white gold!

Iflyfish

Bob H - 10-14-2007 at 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
So JD, in short,
"ANY" kind o'poop will do. :biggrin:

Noooo,,, you do NOT want to use poop from anything that eats meat! That's the key.
Great thread.
Bob H

bajajudy - 10-14-2007 at 02:53 PM

We use only food scraps in our compost and have enough to fertilize our garden. Nothing but vegetables, fruits, egg shells, coffee grinds. If we have a salad with dressing, it does not go into the compost. No grains, rice etc. We have never had a problem with rodents. We mix chicken poop in with it although our chickens are free range and fertilize where ever they feel like it. Now Gympie, we move around to place her where we think needs fertilizing. Right now she is in the bed with the okra and roselle getting it ready for the greens we will plant when it cools.
We have no clippings either.

vandenberg - 10-14-2007 at 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob H

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
So JD, in short,
"ANY" kind o'poop will do. :biggrin:

Noooo,,, you do NOT want to use poop from anything that eats meat! That's the key.
Great thread.
Bob H

OK Bob, I forgot, Chinamen don't eat meat.

Mexitron - 10-14-2007 at 03:11 PM

Mesquite over time develops a nice layer of mulch around it from its fallen leaves--in short it creates its own compost and the nutrients can then be taken back into the tree. So if you're removing mulch from under a Mesquite you're taking its nutrient base away and exposing the soil to drier conditions. But I'm sure it works great in the garden.

As far as where Mesquite prefer to grow--just about any soil or rock as long as it can get it its deep taproots down into some moisture. In Texas its taking over--migrating northward with the warmer climate of recent decades with no concurrent mitigation by prairie fire.

Mexitron - 10-14-2007 at 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter
Both of us have had compost piles, boxes, etc. in the past, but we always had yard waste----lawn clippings etc. to add to the kitchen waste we used.

Now with the Baja house, we will have no lawn and no other clippings until we get some things to grow.

So, has anyone created compost without yard clippings?

Thanks
Diane and John

[Edited on 10-14-2007 by jdtrotter]

Well, that's one downside to living in the desert! Not like LA where you can find all kinds of cellulose to add to the compost pile--newspaper, yard waste, cardboard, even getting the bags of used coffee grounds from Starbucks--the perfect compost amendment.

Suppose a little kelp could work? Or scrounge around town for boxes and other waste.

Mexitron - 10-14-2007 at 03:20 PM

jdtrotter-- found this, you're in luck:

"If you live near a coastal community, kelp and seaweed is a must-have ingredient. Here on Kodiak Island, kelp piles on the beaches in long windrows, and is available to anyone with a truck or garbage can. Pound per pound, kelp supplies more minerals than any other material on the planet. In the garden, it also aerates the soil and makes an excellent mulch around potato plants, fruit-bearing shrubs, bulbs and perennials. And, contrary to popular belief, seaweed does not add harmful salts to the garden"

DianaT - 10-14-2007 at 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexitron
jdtrotter-- found this, you're in luck:

"If you live near a coastal community, kelp and seaweed is a must-have ingredient. Here on Kodiak Island, kelp piles on the beaches in long windrows, and is available to anyone with a truck or garbage can. Pound per pound, kelp supplies more minerals than any other material on the planet. In the garden, it also aerates the soil and makes an excellent mulch around potato plants, fruit-bearing shrubs, bulbs and perennials. And, contrary to popular belief, seaweed does not add harmful salts to the garden"

Wow, that is great information---lots of kelp around. They say it does not add harmful salts, but I would guess one might want to rinse the surface salt off???

In our area, you should see the big holes around the areas where the mesquites grow----just a common practice in the area to collect that dirt.

Another off topic---I mentioned the wonderful removal of some of the saltcedars by Los Pinos---the same ranch that planted them. But not too far from us, on the road to San Borja, we couldn't believe what we saw. A family was setting up a new ranch and had newly planted saltcedar---not too far from where he had his well.

Thanks for the info!

Diane

comitan - 10-14-2007 at 06:05 PM

Diane

The very best and fastest way to get good soil is to go out in your area and pickup dry cow chips, bring them back break them up to a mulch. They are NOT to hot here in the Baja. I have done this and had a garden in beach sand. It works and is not messy.

[Edited on 10-15-2007 by comitan]

scan0003.jpg - 45kB

Bob and Susan - 10-15-2007 at 05:24 AM

they are here...
you just need to see a rancher...

now...we've ALWAYS been told that "fresh" manure is not good for plants and growing because it's too salty...

where does the salt go when it dries up???

it does work, comitan is correct

what kind of veggies are you growing there comitan???
we cannot recognize them in the picture...

personal note: it must have been HOT the day the picture was shot...
i had to wear glasses to view the photo...

DianaT - 10-15-2007 at 07:46 AM

My grandpa used to tell me about collecting cow chips out on the prairie in South Dakota. As a little California city girl I thought he had to be kidding because that would be just too disgusting.

Now, I guess I will be thinking about grandpa and looking for those dried piles of poop. :lol:

Diane

Natalie Ann - 10-15-2007 at 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
what kind of veggies are you growing there comitan???
we cannot recognize them in the picture...

Those look like beets to me - or some kinda turnip. Fill us in, Wiley.

BajaBruno - 10-15-2007 at 09:11 AM

Diane, dry seaweed has an average Nitrogen load of 1.9%, which puts it right in the ballpark of cow manure at about 2.4% N. Combined they are a little short of the optimal Carbon:Nitrogen ratio, however, but some kitchen waste and particularly some chopped up paper or cardboard (very high C:N) would make a fine compost for your plants.

As for Bob’s question about the salt content of manure before and after composting, I am just guessing. . . if the salt is from Chlorine or Sodium, then it may leach out or oxidize during the composting process, but some literature suggests salt is still an issue after composting. Some home gardeners believe that salt in fresher manure is what “burns” plants (by pulling water away from the roots), but more likely is that fresh manure has a high Nitrogen content and microbes are still very actively breaking it down into CO2. In that process they rob the soil of oxygen and starve the plant roots. Composted manure has a very low N content (as the microbes have finished their work) and usually needs some additional fertilizer in commercial farming.

I hope that helps.

comitan - 10-15-2007 at 09:20 AM

That garden was at Ensenada Muertos a few years back, and those where beets, I used to pick the new leaves and had them in our salad and the beets where pickled, also grew Green onions, and cukelopes. :lol:

Minnow - 10-15-2007 at 09:21 AM

Didn't Shari post a picture about a guano slide on one of the islands around there. Have them bring you a couple of fives of that stuff every now and then. You can mix the Organic Matter before you plant to get the moisture retentiveness for your soil. The natural Mesquite compost will work great. No need to worry about composting it with the best fertilizer anywhere at your doorstep.

Iflyfish - 10-15-2007 at 10:48 AM

Great lookining little garden Comitan! Ingenious. Nice pic.

It is important to age the manure. Used to use it on my gardens. Dried does not smell like the fresh.

Iflyfish

Mango - 10-15-2007 at 12:23 PM

If you know anyone with rabbits, or don't mind raising a few. Rabbit poop is about the best stuff to put in a compost pile to really get it going. IMO it is better than any other manure in a compost pile; but, I still add chicken or steer manure as well.

I'm not sure where you are at; but, you might check with local markets and ask them if they will save any rotten produce, etc.. When I worked in a produce market I would throw away about 100 gal of lettuce, cuttings, rotten produce, etc.. a day. We had much higher volume than most baja markets will have however.

Seaweed would be interesting to try. Try to spread your harvesting out as not to impact one small area too much, that goes for soil harvesting too.

Good luck and I hope all grows well!

Kelp in the garden

oladulce - 10-15-2007 at 02:05 PM

This has been a very informative thread. I wanted to know more about using seaweed and here's what I found:

The kelp we have in Baja is Giant Kelp (Macrocystis pyrifera) which is actually a brown algae. It requires water temp less than 68° so I'd estimate that Mag Bay may be about the cut off of it's range in the south and it will only be found in the winter and spring in many other parts of West coast of the peninsula.

The entire Kelp frond (stem and leaves) can be added to your compost pile or dried til it's powdery then mixed in to the soil or in to your compost.

A couple of organic gardening sites say to put the fresh kelp directly in to your soil because it breaks down quickly and provides an excellent mulch in the meantime. Some people break up the kelp before applying and others put the entire frond around their plants.

The common practice is to rinse the kelp before using to remove excess salts.

It looks like the seagrasses that are present year round in our area of the central Baja Sur coast do not have the nutrients to be a beneficial garden fertilizer. I never thought I'd be looking forward to those hideous nuclear winds that we get, but next time I'll be watching for some kelp to blow our way.

DianaT - 10-15-2007 at 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oladulce
This has been a very informative thread. I wanted to know more about using seaweed and here's what I found:

The kelp we have in Baja is Giant Kelp (Macrocystis pyrifera) which is actually a brown algae. It requires water temp less than 68° so I'd estimate that Mag Bay may be about the cut off of it's range in the south and it will only be found in the winter and spring in many other parts of West coast of the peninsula.

The entire Kelp frond (stem and leaves) can be added to your compost pile or dried til it's powdery then mixed in to the soil or in to your compost.

A couple of organic gardening sites say to put the fresh kelp directly in to your soil because it breaks down quickly and provides an excellent mulch in the meantime. Some people break up the kelp before applying and others put the entire frond around their plants.

The common practice is to rinse the kelp before using to remove excess salts.

It looks like the seagrasses that are present year round in our area of the central Baja Sur coast do not have the nutrients to be a beneficial garden fertilizer. I never thought I'd be looking forward to those hideous nuclear winds that we get, but next time I'll be watching for some kelp to blow our way.

Great information for us---lots of kelp in our area. Thanks
Diane

shari - 10-15-2007 at 04:23 PM

I rinse the kelp first but sling it on fresh....but I really screwed up with the guano from the island and burned and nearly killed all the plants I put it on and I just put a bit in but it is very potent stuff...cuidado!
LOVE your gardening outfit comitan!

Iflyfish - 10-15-2007 at 04:28 PM

Might want to make a liquid of the guano, sprinkle it on like fish fertilizer as plants mature.

By the way a liquid made up of garlic and chili is a good organic bug spray. You will find the formula online with a search.

Iflyfish

bajajudy - 10-16-2007 at 01:52 PM

And for your reward, you get pink eyed peas, yellow crowder peas and okra for dinner.
YUMMY

These are from our organic garden.

peas1.jpg - 42kB

Gnome-ad - 10-16-2007 at 04:47 PM

I have been watching this thread with interest. We had a compost bin (Earth Machine) in Oregon, but have been unsure of composting here. Friends of ours in Hawaii (Big Island) had a revolving barrel sort of contraption up off the ground. Food scraps, yard debris would go in, they would turn the crank every few days, and got great compost from it. Anyone know anything about this type thing?

Judy – those veggies look good enough to eat! :lol:

Bajalero - 10-16-2007 at 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish
By the way a liquid made up of garlic and chili is a good organic bug spray. You will find the formula online with a search.

That sounds like a good mouthwash to me

Hey - maybe that's why the bugs don't bother me! :lol:

Bajalero - 10-16-2007 at 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gnome-ad
I have been watching this thread with interest. We had a compost bin (Earth Machine) in Oregon, but have been unsure of composting here. Friends of ours in Hawaii (Big Island) had a revolving barrel sort of contraption up off the ground. Food scraps, yard debris would go in, they would turn the crank every few days, and got great compost from it. Anyone know anything about this type thing?

Judy – those veggies look good enough to eat! :lol:

Easiest way to make a compostor is to make a ring about 5 ' in diameter x 4 ' tall out of chicken wire . Just keep piling in the scraps etc. till full . Wet it once in a while . Add some red wiglers if you have them.

elizabeth - 10-16-2007 at 08:57 PM

Quote:

Back to the original question...I compost kitchen waste without yard waste...works just fine. Don't add dairy or meat or poultry. I use a plastic container that I turn, or mostly forget to turn. The stuff just wants to make compost whether I pay attention or not. As to those cute counter top buckets, I have one. It's worthless. The top has broken, and I ran out of the charcoal filters even before the top broke. They aren't ant proof. Best is a plastic container with a tight lid that you empty every day, and you won't have a problem with bugs and ants

DianaT - 10-17-2007 at 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by elizabeth

Back to the original question...I compost kitchen waste without yard waste...works just fine. Don't add dairy or meat or poultry. I use a plastic container that I turn, or mostly forget to turn. The stuff just wants to make compost whether I pay attention or not. As to those cute counter top buckets, I have one. It's worthless. The top has broken, and I ran out of the charcoal filters even before the top broke. They aren't ant proof. Best is a plastic container with a tight lid that you empty every day, and you won't have a problem with bugs and ants

Elizabeth,
John will like this your post a lot. When I showed him a picture of that cute litter counter top crock, his comments were not postive---along the lines of what a waste of money, and just how many filters would you need to buy. He will like the plastic container a lot more. But it won't be as cute. :lol:

Judy,
Okra? I just can't let John see that Okra grows in Baja. Okra divides our family---a love-hate thing. He loves it, and it makes me gag.

Diane

Gnome-ad - 10-17-2007 at 01:10 PM

Thanks, Bajalero ~

Have been hesitant to do that type due to mice - are they attracted to it? Can we compost all the fantastic pig weed, etc. that we've been battling since the rain? We may have been putting great compost in trash bags to be hauled to the dump. :?:

We composted weeds in Eugene, but don't know the "rules" here ... thanks.

Natalie Ann - 10-17-2007 at 02:41 PM

I try to avoid weeds in my compost... because compost grows really big strong weeds, in the compost pile and in your garden.

Al G - 10-17-2007 at 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gnome-ad
Thanks, Bajalero ~

Have been hesitant to do that type due to mice - are they attracted to it? Can we compost all the fantastic pig weed, etc. that we've been battling since the rain? We may have been putting great compost in trash bags to be hauled to the dump. :?:

We composted weeds in Eugene, but don't know the "rules" here ... thanks.

I am not an expert, but as I remember in the composting period if you have the moisture and air correct...you generate enough heat to destroy weed seed...still would not use the more invasive type like Thistle weed.
EDIT: it is always better to keep the weeds out...or at least separate to test for weeds with...

[Edited on 10-17-2007 by Al G]

Al G - 10-17-2007 at 03:14 PM

If you compost your weeds separate and then cover with plastic for part of the summer, I think that will kill any seed left. :?:

Gnome-ad - 10-19-2007 at 11:00 AM

Thanks!!