BajaNomad - To learn or not to learn

To learn or not to learn

castaway$ - 10-25-2007 at 10:37 PM

If I move to Baja should I really learn how to speak spanish, right now I know some "key" words, at least enough to get my point across, Should I study the language and become fluid or can I get by and learn as I go. What have the rest of you done?

David K - 10-25-2007 at 10:54 PM

The more Spanish you know, the more fun and comfort you will have in a Spanish speaking country...

That being said, don't let the lack of Spanish keep you for starting your Baja explorations! English is widely spoken and signs in tourist areas are often in English, like along the highway.

Have a open mind and try to speak it when possible... practice a lot, they will respect you for your attempts and not laugh too much!

I had Spanish in grade school and high school and practiced it all my life... I can speak most things I need to get by, but would really like to be bilingual... The Baja Calif. Language College in Ensenada would be my school of choice http://www.bajacal.com if I can take the time off to do it!

[Edited on 10-26-2007 by David K]

Osprey - 10-26-2007 at 04:59 AM

Over time I learned to speak as my Mexican neighbors do -- the trick is to listen carefully, ask questions, write things down. The reason my gringo friends come to me to help, translate, is that they recognize that when I speak for them I'll be speaking, with respect, the local language of the villagers not formal D.F. Spanish. For me it helps to have somebody handy to speak with -- my friend and gardener comes to my house 3 or 4 times a week to work and chat and I have learned scores if not hundreds of words from him.

Mango - 10-26-2007 at 05:40 AM

I took Spanish in school when growing up. It was one of my toughest subjects. I'd study hard; but, would still do horribly. I even managed to score 4 out of 100 on a multiple choice test once! Ouch.

The first time I went to Mexico, I got by with the few words and phrases I knew. I soon found I was able to ask for almost anything I needed; but, more often than not found the answers I got in return were confusing, or beyond my comprehension.

I learned that you can phrase things or ask things in certain ways as to get simpler answers. Also, be brave and then learn from your mistakes. Most Mexicans want to learn English, so impromptu Spanish/English lessons are readily had almost anywhere in Mexico. A great phrase is, "Como se dice?...(then point to something)" {translates to: How do you say..?}

I carry photos with me, and keep them handy to show others, when I travel. You can show your photos of your hometown, favorite lake, family, pets, landmark, etc.. to locals. This will aid you immensely when trying to break the ice and keep the conversation going.

Nobody will get mad at you for trying to speak Spanish; but, they may not respect you very much if you don't try. Spanish is part of the culture of Mexico, to better understand it is to better understand Mexico. To learn and use it shows respect on your part.

My Spanish is still not that great; but, I get by. Some people tell me it's good; but, I am still often confused or feel out of the loop. I've met some great people, heard some great stories, and had some great experiences that would not have been possible if I did not know and use Spanish.

Give it a try and see what new doors will open for you, it beats just sitting there staring at the door and wondering what is on the other side.

osoflojo - 10-26-2007 at 06:06 AM

There is no substitute for communicating in anothers native tongue. That being said the essence of communication is not what is said but the message that is recieved. The genuine willingness to communicate is far more important that what you actually can say. If you are genuine in your desire to communicate grunts, clicks and whistles will be a start.

Mango - 10-26-2007 at 06:13 AM

Rummph, ugh! eek. Click Click.

:lol:

Sorry, had to do it.

Cardon Man - 10-26-2007 at 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by osoflojo
There is no substitute for communicating in anothers native tongue. That being said the essence of communication is not what is said but the message that is recieved. The genuine willingness to communicate is far more important that what you actually can say. If you are genuine in your desire to communicate grunts, clicks and whistles will be a start.

Very true. Nonetheless, speaking Spanish at any level will greatly enhance your experience in any Latin American country. A good book can be a big help. Where many "gringos" fall short is in the use and conjugation of verbs. Learn the basics of conjugating past,present, future tense and you will take your Spanish to a new level. Practice and enjoy!

bacquito - 10-26-2007 at 07:00 AM

Be amiable!! Try to use there language but share yours. Quit often times a parent will want their child to learn some english-help them. There are numerous books with translations- that is the book is written in both languages. CARRY A DICTIONARY!!

Bruce R Leech - 10-26-2007 at 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Then again, maybe you want to live in your own little world and not be bothered by anybody or have to read advertisments all over the place. Some people are content with their own company.
Just a thought.

why would someone like that want to live in Mexico? :?:

Oso - 10-26-2007 at 08:44 AM

Flomax should help you get more fluid. :lol:

bajajudy - 10-26-2007 at 09:46 AM

I went to Se Habla....La Paz, because I wanted to speak the way the people in Baja speak...so if you are considering a school, I would highly recommend one that is in Baja.
As for the highway signs, I have never seen one in BCS in English so learn them.
The people here are extremely forgiving of your mistakes if you at least try.....go for it!

Cardon Man - 10-26-2007 at 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech

Quote:

why would someone like that want to live in Mexico? :?:

Good point!

Al G - 10-26-2007 at 10:48 AM

I have found a channel on dishnetwork that is helping me...9411 NAUHS. University of Arizona. I have recorded the classes on DVR.
It is very good. Along with the Spanish lessons they take time to refresh your English conjunctions, prepositions, irregular verbs...etc.
If I get past the congregating of verbs...it should be alot easier...that is saying alot for someone who had to take bone head English in college. as you can tell it did not do much good anyway... :lol:

I would think other networks would have something similar.
If there other suggestions that are better please let me know.

Loner or everybody's friend?

Lee - 10-26-2007 at 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech

Quote:

why would someone like that want to live in Mexico? :?:

Guess you don't know people. 100 people can have 100 reasons for living in Baja. Choosing to have few friends, or only your own company, is just as valid as any other reason.

What don't you understand about living in one's own little world?

Lee - 10-26-2007 at 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by castaway$
If I move to Baja should I really learn how to speak spanish, right now I know some "key" words, at least enough to get my point across, Should I study the language and become fluid or can I get by and learn as I go. What have the rest of you done?

Some will judge you on how well you speak but many won't. If you are starting from zero, go to school. http://www.sehablalapaz.com/ if you're in BCS.

If you don't care whether you speak/sound like a 4th grader or not, then getting by will suffice.

A few classes will explain how Spanish verbs are conjugated. It all depends on where you are in Baja and how much you need to know.

Denaca - 10-26-2007 at 11:06 AM

Pick up a copy of 501 Verbs and a good dictionary, maybe Velasquez.
With the verbs just look them up: eat, sleep, go, return, whatever, etc. make a practice of writing them. Make a horizontal line and cross that in the middle with a vertical line, upper left the "i", upper right, "you, she, he, it; lower left, "we"; lower right, they or you guys. Don't try to remember.
Still wanna learn? Just practice, practice, practice.
The thing is you will remember best what you use. Moving there is optimal. Soon that study you did not try to remember will work itself out.
And remember, learning all the calo (slang) is no substitute for el castellano.

toneart - 10-26-2007 at 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oso
Flomax should help you get more fluid. :lol:

Oso,
I'm glad someone else saw that, so I don't have to be the English teacher. I would add, however, that Pacifico or Tecate might be the preferred way to achieve fluid results. Flomax clears obstructions of the urethra, whereas beer clears not only the urethra, but the brain as well (until the volume impedes). :light:

Skipjack Joe - 10-26-2007 at 11:23 AM

Many of my first words in Spanish were curse words.

I remember a trip a Tony Reyes trip in the 80's. The galley cook, my guide, and I would sit in the bow after dinner sharing smokes. I remember trying to impress them with my curse words. After a bit of this the guide leaned over to the cook scratching his head:

"Shees, this guy can't put two words together, but he cusses like a truckdriver. What's with that?"

Cabron!

Lee - 10-26-2007 at 11:34 AM

824 words you might want to know:

http://www.mrgabe.com/dictionary/Spanish/index.asp

DENNIS - 10-26-2007 at 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cardon Man

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech

Quote:

why would someone like that want to live in Mexico? :?:

Good point!

What does being in Mexico have to do with a quest for privacy? A contemplative life in an urban setting. Some people don't want to know what others are saying or what's for sale. That interaction is as valid as being involved with everything you hear people saying.
Don't most people come to Baja for the isolation? It isn't for everybody but, some see it as a way of life.

DENNIS - 10-26-2007 at 12:48 PM

Thanks Lee.....
Great Spanish slang site.

Sharksbaja - 10-26-2007 at 12:56 PM

"Don't most people come to Baja for the isolation?"

No.

DENNIS - 10-26-2007 at 01:12 PM

I think the visitor does. Who that you know would drag down all their beach toys and camping gear to find an apartment in downtown La Paz?

Bruce R Leech - 10-26-2007 at 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech

Quote:

why would someone like that want to live in Mexico? :?:

no mater how isolated a person wants to be you are going to need to communicate with Mexicans while you live in Mexico. and it is only common courtesy for a person to try to learn the language of the country that he or she is a guest in.

[Edited on 10-26-2007 by Bruce R Leech]

Minnow - 10-26-2007 at 01:34 PM

I couldn't agree more Bruce. Besides, why go to a foreign country if you are not going to partake in all it has to offer. Your experience will be far greater with at least a basic understanding of their language.

Bruce R Leech - 10-26-2007 at 02:00 PM

Dennis I am pretty sure you don't feel this way your self I could understand this kind of thinking for some one just visiting Mexico for a couple of weeks, but not for a person that wants to make Mexico there home.

comitan - 10-26-2007 at 02:43 PM

The other side of the coin, there people living in Mexico 20+ years and have a home and know a minimal amount of Spanish, They talk to their maid, yard man in English and don't seem to have any problems. Don't ever forget Mexicans know more English than they let on.

Bruce R Leech - 10-26-2007 at 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
The other side of the coin, there people living in Mexico 20+ years and have a home and know a minimal amount of Spanish, They talk to their maid, yard man in English and don't seem to have any problems. Don't ever forget Mexicans know more English than they let on.

yes I know many like that and some are fine people . but they are missing allot and get taken advantage of allot also. and most don't have a clue about the culture

Knowing minimal Spanish

Lee - 10-26-2007 at 02:59 PM

Quote:

I have a negative reaction to any Mexican living in the US, or any gringo living in Mexico, who doesn't learn the language of the country they are living in. This especially applies to people living FULL TIME in the country. I have seen greater arrorgance from gringos who think Mexicans should learn English -- in Mexico.

This isn't about getting by. It's about arrogance. Whatever.

Mango - 10-26-2007 at 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
...Don't ever forget Mexicans know more English than they let on.

Yeah, that can be very true. Sometimes playing dumb can work wonders in the right circumstance. It works both ways though.

Often when on the mainland I avoid speaking English at all costs. It really keeps people guessing and limits their prejudgments about who I am.

I've had people think I was German, French, Mexican, Italian, Canadian, etc.. etc.. usually gringo is the third one down the list. It's a fun game to play; but, it only works if you know Spanish... or German. :lol:

tis true but..

Sharksbaja - 10-26-2007 at 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I think the visitor does. Who that you know would drag down all their beach toys and camping gear to find an apartment in downtown La Paz?

..Isolation to me is a beach with only one vehicle or so. I fear most touristas are seeking the cushy Baja experience. Flush toilets, full bars that sort of rich, lazy spoiled tourist thang. Baja is chock full of em now! Transplants or expats are more likely to seek that solace that Baja romanticizes but more often than not they find themselves chockablock with similar minded folks in the modern enclaves. Most likely enjoying a fine Pinot from Oregon while planning their fishing trip tomorrow. At least the sea isn't overrun with megayachts. Time will tell. Enjoy as many "secret" places while the goins good! :lol:

Learn as best you can the language, why would you not??

Mango - 10-26-2007 at 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

I have a negative reaction to any Mexican living in the US, or any gringo living in Mexico, who doesn't learn the language of the country they are living in. This especially applies to people living FULL TIME in the country. I have seen greater arrorgance from gringos who think Mexicans should learn English -- in Mexico.

This isn't about getting by. It's about arrogance. Whatever.

I agree; but, not many of us know Cherokee, Miwok, Shawnee, Nahuatl, Mixtec, Zapotec, etc.. So the speak what the natives speak/I was here first argument is muddled somewhat IMO.

Here in Mexicali we have a large Chinese population, they pretty much built the city 100 years ago as they fled oppression from both the USA and Mexico. One day I was at the Telnor office and an old Chinese lady was in the store. She only spoke Mandarin, her grandson (talking on his cell phone in English at the same time) was translating Chinese to Spanish for his grandmother. It really tripped me out.

Some people only do what they need to get by, and don't bother to learn the local language. It really is a shame; as Mexico/USA/etc all have unique and interesting cultures that are best learned from the locals by speaking the local language. Language is all about communication no matter how it is achieved; but, adhering to custom and local practice is about respect. In that aspect I completely agree with you.

elgatoloco - 10-26-2007 at 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by grover
Amen.

DENNIS - 10-26-2007 at 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
you live in Mexico. and it is only common courtesy for a person to try to learn the language of the country that he or she is a guest in.

Yeah.......Good one Bruce. You ought to be preaching that crap in LA or San Diego. Stick your common courtesy up your big fat where it belongs and quit kissing Mexicos butt.

Bruce R Leech - 10-26-2007 at 03:45 PM

Ouch :lol:

bajajudy - 10-26-2007 at 03:50 PM

Larry

What does
!Mepuchi, pariente!
mean?

DENNIS - 10-26-2007 at 07:27 PM

I tried to post with my original statement in a quote box and ended up dumping everything. Sorry.

I was in the process of saying that mine was only a comment regarding choice. A choice to remain private. Lee saw this....thanks.
What's disconcerting here is that most of you see this as abhorrent behavior. That one's desire for privacy in the midst of any culture would be incomprehensible. That your way of social interaction is the only tolerable way.
I guess yours is the American way. Thanks.

Al G - 10-26-2007 at 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by bajajudy
What does
!Mepuchi, pariente!
mean?

Hey, didn't you just write that you'd learned to speak like the folks in Baja? :lol:

Roughly equivalent to "Woah, dude!" in California speak.

--Larry

Now is that "Whoa dude" or Wosh dude...or maybe "back out" dude...
All Calefornia speak.

[Edited on 10-27-2007 by Al G]

bajajudy - 10-27-2007 at 06:31 AM

Larry
Pongalo donde no hay sol :lol:

bajajudy - 10-27-2007 at 06:46 AM

Al
thanks!

DENNIS - 10-27-2007 at 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
Ouch :lol:

Ohhhhhh me.....Did I say that? Sorry Bruce.

TMW - 10-27-2007 at 09:46 AM

This is a really interesting topic. I myself only know a few words that I remember. However when I go to Baja I learn more using my dictionary, spanish books and listen to spanish learning CDs and communicating with the people. I think if I spent everal months continuous I'd get more fluent with the language. While in the states I'm too lazy to keep learning and lose what I had gained.

Many times I've been in a resturant and ordered something on the menu by pointing to it not knowing exactly what it was. I'm not a picky eater and surprise I've never had a bad meal.

Bruce R Leech - 10-27-2007 at 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
Ouch :lol:

Ohhhhhh me.....Did I say that? Sorry Bruce.

apology accepted :yes:

, we all have bad days.

have a good day :tumble:

bajajudy - 10-27-2007 at 11:28 AM

TW
Yes this is an interesting subject and I regret getting sidetracked by an offhand remark. BUT I still say if you are going to school, do so in Baja. Por ejemplo....I would have never known that La Paz is pronounced La Pa....people in La Paz drop the s's and z's on the end of words. They do it here sometimes too.
Getting out and speaking with your neighbors is a great way to practice what you have learned. A little knowledge of verbs and tenses makes things smoother. However, learn the words for today, yesterday and tomorrow and you can start any sentence with that and then use the present tense and probably will be understood.
I have to write things down before they stick so school exercises really helped me. I lived with a family and we only spoke Spanish.
Otherwise if you dont have time or money for school, point and grunt works too. Just make sure that once the person understands what you are pointing at, that you ask them how to say it in spanish....como se dice en Espanol?
I learn something everyday in my conversations in Spanish, if I ask enough questions.
Good luck to us all with slightly frayed around the edges brains who are trying to learn a new language late in life.
Suerte a todo.