BajaNomad - More pedestrian shake-downs at TJ border

More pedestrian shake-downs at TJ border

lefty - 12-3-2007 at 04:32 AM

Some of you may recall I posted about police waiting at the border in TJ where people walk back to the USA, searching Americans for no reason and stealing money.
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=25375#pid2381...

I just saw this article in the San Diego paper:

'Three people recently contacted The San Diego Union-Tribune to report being robbed by Tijuana police officers near the San Ysidro border crossing over the past six weeks.

Authorities are unsure whether the latest accounts about attacks against tourists reflect an increase in attacks or that more people are sharing their stories with reporters or on Internet sites.

Robert Fishman, director of administration for the Mainly Mozart Festival in San Diego, said he was robbed of more than $500 in cash by a group of Mexican police officers Oct. 13 after leaving a Caliente sports gaming site. He said the officers stopped him on a dark section of the pedestrian bridge that leads to the San Ysidro border crossing around 10 p.m. and searched his wallet and pockets. After they let him go, he realized the money was missing. Fishman said he does not plan to go back to Baja California.'
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/20071122-9999-1m22...

I know most of you drive but I thought this might amuse you

[Edited on 12-3-2007 by lefty]

[Edited on 12-3-2007 by lefty]

[Edited on 12-3-2007 by lefty]

Bruce R Leech - 12-3-2007 at 07:15 AM

I am not amused but saddened. I hope that now that the new government is in place that they will fire all the police and start over. they have done this in the past and it seems to help for a little while.

DENNIS - 12-3-2007 at 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
fire all the police and start over. they have done this in the past and it seems to help for a little while.

That's the problem, Bruce. It only lasts for a little while. What do you do with your kids when they only behave for a little while?
I think Mexico should contract Blackwater to solve their problem. They're paid a lot so greed shouldn't be an issue. Or, pay a lot of money to a national security company. Whatever it takes.

Bruce R Leech - 12-3-2007 at 07:42 AM

nothing will fix the problem permanently until they get control of corruption. and what are the chances of that :no:

gnukid - 12-3-2007 at 07:56 AM

I'm not certain of laws about search but when I have seen this go down and been approached I say, no you can not search me, you don't have the right. And the cops all stand there rifles in their hands and objected like gosh darn it, he got us. I think you need to stand up for yourself gracefully and firmly and they give up right awat. Though I know some cops can be pretty fired up. I would say in general refuse to let them you search you because there is one purpose only, to steal your wallet.

Bruce R Leech - 12-3-2007 at 08:09 AM

it is not really a mater of what your rights are or what the law says. if they have the only gun and they want your wallet they are going to have it. if you are talking about police they are way above the law and generally do as the wish. and even by the law you are guilty until you can prove your innocent.

don't forget you are in Mexico

Wolves and sheep in TJ

Lee - 12-3-2007 at 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
I'm not certain of laws about search but when I have seen this go down and been approached I say, no you can not search me, you don't have the right. And the cops all stand there rifles in their hands and objected like gosh darn it, he got us. I think you need to stand up for yourself gracefully and firmly and they give up right awat. Though I know some cops can be pretty fired up. I would say in general refuse to let them you search you because there is one purpose only, to steal your wallet.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
it is not really a mater of what your rights are or what the law says. if they have the only gun and they want your wallet they are going to have it. if you are talking about police they are way above the law and generally do as the wish. and even by the law you are guilty until you can prove your innocent.

don't forget you are in Mexico

It is unfortunate that the police who are there to protect Americans will rob them so close to the border. Equally unfortunate is the above statement that you should surrender to the police and let them have their way.

If you take the attitude that Knukid has written, you'll have made an attempt to keep your money and possibly walk away with some dignity. If a gun is pointed at my head, I'll think twice about the money in my pocket. Police with guns don't intimidate me and a ''shake down'' for no reason will make me see red.

Unlike Bruce's statement, YOU DO HAVE RIGHTS IN MEXICO and when you stand up for your rights, it is probable (at least in the scenario above) that the police will back down and see that you are refusing to be fleeced.

Best/worst case scenario above: Police shrug and walk away. Police shoot you. (For the record, you have a right to speak with a ''Supervisor'' and get names and badge numbers. I, personally, would single out the ''leader'' of the pack and tell him he should be ASHAMED of himself for pulling a stunt like this.!)

Don't be afraid of the police and don't back down when you have done nothing wrong.

GET REAL PEOPLE!

gnukid - 12-3-2007 at 08:40 AM

I have a lot of experience with this problem, generally that my american friends find themselves short of their wallet after being searched. I have learned how to avoid it. Do not let them search you! I was approached outside soriana in la paz by 5 cops with machine guns who tried to insist they needed to search me. I said no I am sorry you don't have the right. They even stuck the guns at my chest many times, but I never flinched and said I'm sorry no. It works amazingly well.

I have never had my wallet stolen by cops but I have many friends who visit and sometimes they get drunk. If you are drunk and walking you are target for the cops who will say we need to search you for drugs and they take your wallet. It seems to sound fine since you know you don't have anything to hide. The whole process is quite peaceful and seemingly innocuous until you realize they took your wallet.

In mexico, the cops and the people are far less aggressive than you would think. You just need to be polite and firm and say no, and use body language that shows that you are calm and they will be calm. Be confident and face them directly and eventually enough time will pass and they will go. Do not fight just be firm and polite. Remember few of them have bullets in the gun.

[Edited on 12-3-2007 by gnukid]

DENNIS - 12-3-2007 at 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
use body language that shows that you are calm and they will be calm.

I don't know if I could work up a yawn with a machine gun pointed at my chest. I'd probably have to rely on the steaming wet spot all over the front of my pants to send the message.

Get drunk leave money at home.

Lee - 12-3-2007 at 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
If you are drunk and walking you are target for the cops who will say we need to search you for drugs and they take your wallet. It seems to sound fine since you know you don't have anything to hide.

[Edited on 12-3-2007 by gnukid]

And if you're drunk on the streets and approached by the police, you'll probably be incapable of making sense much less arguing logically and firmly. Best not to be carrying alot of money.

The Kid makes sense. Listen to him.

(Standing up for your rights while being thumped in the chest by a gun is a VERY ballsy move. I like it. Thanks for your input, Gnukid.)

Bruce R Leech - 12-3-2007 at 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

Quote:

I DID NOT SAY you should surrender to the police and let them have their way. Did I?

I just love you guys that cant read or understand a post :lol:

Woooosh - 12-3-2007 at 10:10 AM

It's easy to say "fire the corrupt police and hire new ones" but not possible. The working class left behind in Mexico has little education and even less motivation. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. The Mexican MIDDLE CLASS is up in the USA making a better life for themselved, friends and family. After living in Mexico six years- I now know that the Mexicans I interacted with in the USA are the cream-of-the-crop. Most can read, write and hold a job year after year. They were the smart ones- the ones who chose to change Mexico from the USA side- not get caught up with the drug gangs and institutionalized corruption.

Until Mexico can educate it's people (beyond the 8th grade level where most schools stop) and create real jobs- there will never be qualified candidates for any positions of public trust. The solution is up to Mexico, They need to create a reason for Mexicans to stay in Mexico and prosper instead of going to north to the USA. JMHO though

You have the RIGHT to surrender your wallet -- or not!

Lee - 12-3-2007 at 10:16 AM

Quote:

IF you're not advising people to ''surrender'' their wallet(s) (because the police have a gun, and, ''they are going to have it,')' then what are you writing, Bruce?

Writing that the police are ''way above the law'' ISN'T true. Any more gems?

Of course, you're entitled to a bogus opinion -- just don't preach to the sheep here thinking it's true for everyone?

The Guys with the Guns

MrBillM - 12-3-2007 at 10:30 AM

I've had weapons pointed directly at me many times over the years by military personnel, but never by any police officers. Just luck, I guess.

Generally, I've always felt that it was a GOOD idea to obey the instructions of someone aiming a weapon at my chest. Unless I KNOW differently, I always assume that the weapon is loaded. Although it's unlikely that they would shoot you, mistakes happen, and they get to make up the story afterwards.

However, I recommend that EVERYONE who feels differently, stand firm on your beliefs and don't take any crap at all from those officials. If nothing else, it will be good reading for the rest of us.

Speaking of those weapons, coming South through the El Chinero checkpoint in October, as I passed one of the solemn-faced soldiers swaggering around with his sub-machine gun, I noticed that the magazine well was empty. That was funny.

Woooosh - 12-3-2007 at 10:31 AM

For the record. I do agree that if you stick up for yourself- firmly but politely-you will be better off. You're also better off not walking around TJ at night alone with $500 in gaming profits in your wallet. I'm not sure I'd walk some areas of the Las Vegas strip at night with that much money on me, let alone a jaunt through the thrid world.

If I am alone in my car and get pulled over for no reason (that I can think of) I ask to follow the policeman back to the station. I don't argue, I just tell them I want to resolve the issue properly- so let's go back to the station and take care of it. The cops have ALWAYS failed to make it back to the station with me- they just bail out and drive away and I go home.

toneart - 12-3-2007 at 10:32 AM

Throughout the years, every time a new official is elected, whether he be The President, Governor or Mayor, they always make a lot of noise about firing corrupt police. They usually do fire some. Then you have the problem of trained, armed and angry cops fully committed to being criminals. Often they retain uniforms, police cars with lights and their attitudes are violent.

Mary Shelley couldn't have created better Frankensteins than the system that has created these conditions. :fire:

gnukid - 12-3-2007 at 10:33 AM

Here's a tip. When police approach you to say we need to search you for drugs. Try this, "thank you for asking but no, it's so nice to know there are good people here doing the job needed, but I am not a drug dealer obviously. Thank you for asking but I am obviously not. What is your name. I have many friends in the government and I am going to tell them what a good job you do. My name is _______ .

Then you need to remember their name(s) and keep repeating their names to them when you speak to them and ask who is in charge to be sure that I thank you specifically for making us more secure. You really want them to know how much you appreciate their work and that you will be certain to write about it to the nice people in sindicatura and to the president of the city ________. Then tell them a long story about the time that some friends who became bad police were caught stealing from some other touristas and that they got in trouble with the federal prosecutors and you never saw them again. Thats sad. Thank you, good bye."

Remember that possession of small amounts of drugs is not a serious crime and there is no policy to encourage random searches for personal possession of drugs. Also no male police have the right to search a woman ever so when you really get the feeling its going to get weird then the women take the money and put it in their panties.

Bajajack - 12-3-2007 at 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee

Quote:

Anyone who does'nt believe the police in mexico are above the law is truly dreaming.

The law is what they say it is at any given time, any place, any moment.

mtgoat666 - 12-3-2007 at 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
I have a lot of experience with this problem, generally that my american friends find themselves short of their wallet after being searched. I have learned how to avoid it. Do not let them search you! I was approached outside soriana in la paz by 5 cops with machine guns who tried to insist they needed to search me....

gnukid,
your propensity for attracting trouble cracks me up. :lol:

you're full of stories about banditos and cops,... what the heck do you do to atrract all of the attention?

gnukid - 12-3-2007 at 12:18 PM

mtgoat666, yesterday we went sailing on 40' olsen out 40 miles round trip from la paz to San Juan de costa and back in winds up to 30 knots with walls of water up to 10 feet. We reached speeds surfing down the waves of 11knots at times with just the full main and the jib up (we were too scared to put of the main chute).

The day before I went fishing and caught record Snapper dog fish just off Palmira with my lucky orange rapala and I went to a wedding and then dropped off flight attendants at the airport to go work with moments to spare before we returned to el centro hit salsipuedes and tequilas bar and the comedy show at Los Arcos.

Some people sit inside, which I highly respect, in fact the wind is gusting in La Ventana to 35knots and I am a little tired now of kitesurfing. But I generally get out quite a bit and I have lots of friends. In mexico eventually the bad guys are going to approach you to ask for money. They think I am rich but I have no money to pay them.

For some of us the days are long and hard and enjoyable, for others they are smart enough to "never leave camp." I love it all.

The bottom line is now wherever I go the police and just about everybody yell Hola Pablo and the police are afraid to harass people when I am around. If I see them bugging someone I don't have to say anything they will let them go. It's both embarrassing and somehow pleasant.

If you need a get out of jail card I have one.

[Edited on 12-3-2007 by gnukid]

Natalie Ann - 12-3-2007 at 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
I've had weapons pointed directly at me many times over the years by military personnel, but never by any police officers. Just luck, I guess.

Generally, I've always felt that it was a GOOD idea to obey the instructions of someone aiming a weapon at my chest. Unless I KNOW differently, I always assume that the weapon is loaded. Although it's unlikely that they would shoot you, mistakes happen, and they get to make up the story afterwards.

However, I recommend that EVERYONE who feels differently, stand firm on your beliefs and don't take any crap at all from those officials. If nothing else, it will be good reading for the rest of us.

'Twas neither military nor police, but I have had a loaded weapon pressed firmly up against my right temple.... and believe me there was no doubt in any small part of me that I would do exactly what the gunman said to do when he said to do it.

While my experience did not take place in Baja (was right here in the good ol' USofA), I bring it up to make the point that being accosted by someone with a gun is very scary - and for good reason. And I find myself agreeing with MrB :wow:

... it's a good idea to obey the instructions of the guy with the gun.
Money is just money, and stuff is just stuff. Your life - now that's something. :yes:

Nena

DENNIS - 12-3-2007 at 02:39 PM

Yeah....Remember those vows to honor and obey and cook.

Natalie Ann - 12-3-2007 at 03:12 PM

Dennis - I have no problem with the honor part, and I admit to obeying at gunpoint. But cook??? Gene was just shining you on... he's tasted my cooking. :lol:

Nena

Bajafun777 - 12-3-2007 at 10:36 PM

Have never had a cop in Mexico pull a weapon out on me except when my friends and I were in high school drinking at a bar in Mexicali called the "Cage" and then went upstairs to a bar called the "Lobby" where we got into a verbal disagreement with some locals and went down stairs to cross at the old port just across the street. One of our friends, who was high school wrestler, as were others of us decided he had to relieve himself on the side of the building. A cop was on it in a moment. Pushed my friend against the wall and was trying to cuff him but my friend was agruing and struggling with the cop who then pulled his gun. My buddy did a very very stupid thing by spinning and knocking the weapon and officer to the ground. Never moved so fast in all my life but we did get those few yards back into the U.S.A. Never did go back with that friend and took a while before I had the guts to cross again. The parties, booze, and friends eventually got me back.
Now, the military I have had them search me along with my truck searching for weapons or drugs and they definately pointed weapons at me. Now, again that was a number of years back, as now they just wave me through.
I have also had police in T.J. try to shake me down when driving through but remained calm and kept saying never did anything wrong and they finally let me go. That said I have in the past in the interest of time just slipped them a twenty and drove on. However, the gun thing if pointed at me with bad intentions I am going to give them whatever they want. I can always earn more money but I can not buy myself another life or do time on some B.S. charge in their hell hole jail. Money and things can always be replaced one way or another, however a life or being injuried is just not worth it. Especially since we are getting older, as I for one just do not heal as fast as I once did. Later------- bajafun777

rpleger - 12-4-2007 at 11:31 AM

Don't come here, don't come here....

Bad cops, steal your money...

Woooosh - 12-4-2007 at 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toneart
Throughout the years, every time a new official is elected, whether he be The President, Governor or Mayor, they always make a lot of noise about firing corrupt police. They usually do fire some. Then you have the problem of trained, armed and angry cops fully committed to being criminals. Often they retain uniforms, police cars with lights and their attitudes are violent.

Mary Shelley couldn't have created better Frankensteins than the system that has created these conditions. :fire:

How is it the Mexican gov't can created these acronym-rich titles for departments and the newly doled-out positions, they can create intelligent sounding press releases (when push comes to shove) to sound intelligent... yet Mexico is always STUCK ON STUPID?