BajaNomad

Help with dream home design- master bdrm, up or down?

oladulce - 12-9-2007 at 03:02 PM

We're working on the plans for our home in Baja Sur and would like some opinions. Should the master bedroom and bath be upstairs, or on the ground level?

Here's the set-up and plans so far:
This will be our main residence in 2 years. It's just the 2 of us, no big extended family, and probably won't have a lot of visitors due to the remote location (ok, we don't have many friends).

It's solar powered and no Air condit in the plans. It's on the Pacific and gets plenty of side-shore/off shore "breezes" off the desert for ventilation. More of a problem is balancing open windows for ventilation with the ever-present dirt in the air.

Downstairs will be the kitchen, living room, utility/laundry room, a bathroom and a guest bedroom. There's a separate self-contained guest casita already built, (as well as a large garage and solar utility room). Upstairs we'll have an office/computer room with a view deck accessible by staircases inside and off the main patio below. If we're not outside, the main rooms we'll spend time in are the kitchen and upstairs office.

Wherever the "Master" is, it will include bedroom, spacious bath and walk-in closet area.

The property is on the oceanfront with wide open views and a spacious property so the proximity of neighbors (and privacy) is not a problem.

Having an ocean view from the master bedroom isn't a priority to us. (Any window on the 2nd story will have a nice view of something- sunset over the desert, mesas across the bay etc, even if it's not on the ocean side ). Our main priority for the master bdrm is good ventilation for comfortable sleeping, as well as a practical layout and easy to clean, and privacy from the main living area.

This is a dirty place! Trips to town are on dirt roads, either by ATV or dune buggy. Besides surfing, kayaking, fishing, etc, days are spent gardening and working to maintain this self-contained home. You change clothes a lot throughout the day around here, whether working or playing.

So the question is, will it be a pain to trudge up the stairs to change clothes multiple times per day? Any other down sides to a 2nd story bedroom?

We're 50 y.o. and assume that by the time we're old enough that stairs become difficult, we may no longer be surfing and won't be living out here in the boonies anyway. Is this realistic?

I would appreciate your pros and cons for 2nd story bedrooms and experiences, and any other opinions you can offer. We feel very lucky to be on this property and although we don't need a huge mansion, we'd like the home to be worthy of this dream location.

fishbuck - 12-9-2007 at 03:13 PM

That's a good question! I'm wrestling with the same issue. I think ideally, everything is on the ground floor. Do you really need 2 stories?

bajajudy - 12-9-2007 at 03:32 PM

I would go with one floor especially since view isnt important. No matter how healthy you tell yourself going up and down the stairs will be, you will find yourself saving up for a trip upstairs with a list of everything that you need from up there.
As for dirt......get used to it. With the winds we had 3 weeks ago, I would dust and one hour later need to do it again. My solution was to stop dusting and stay inside with the windows closed. Some days that is all you can do. I keep telling myself that dust is better than mold and mildew.

Al G - 12-9-2007 at 03:47 PM

9 out of 10 regret a master bedroom upstairs...most move down sooner or later...usually right after one or the other moves into their own bed.

oladulce - 12-9-2007 at 04:15 PM

Good responses- thank you.

Fishbuck- an elevated deck will provide amazing views so that's definite "must have" and it will be cool to have the computer /work-out room upstairs too. Putting the bedroom up there too was an afterthought.

Judy- You're right! Now I remember why I talked myself out of this before. I pictured hauling dirty clothes downstairs to wash, and carrying folded clothes back up stairs. We got hung up in the image of billowing curtans and soft light at sunset in an airy upstairs bedroom ...

I wonder if people who enjoy their master bedroom on the 2nd floor are those with full-time house keepers?

Al G- That's the kind of input I was looking for- if people would change their floorplan if they could. Thanks.

Russ - 12-9-2007 at 04:21 PM

Oladulce: It really sounds like you considered most of the important stuff. Air flow being prime during the hot/humid time of the year. My first place was two story with the bed room up top. I found you'll soon get use to the stairs with many trips up & down. Some times first thing in the morning going down to put the coffee on my ankles hunt a bit but by the time I headed back up they were fine. Here are some of the things I found that were important during construction of my second place. Have all copper lines run through a conduit like polypipe or plastic, where the gas (propane) lines come out of the wall have them in a recessed box so the valve is protected and the appliance slides against the wall, the box needs to be large enough to screw the gas line in form the appliance on and turn the valve on and off, put more electrical outlet plugs in than you think you'll need and have some of those on exterior walls go through for outside plugs. for the 90º turns in the electrical use sweeps because sharp 90º turns will be hard to pull wire threw or they will get kinked and be useless. I found the having the doors and window (french style allows more air in) open out helped keep water from coming in during storms. There are pros and cons on that. I have a 1" drop to the patio for the same reason. Locate the hot water heater as close to the shower and kitchen sink as possible. Run 2" contuit for your solar, radio antennas ( VHF & XM), TV & satellite services. Those are some of the things I keep in mind when drawing my new dream home. Here is a shot of the start of my newest idea. I'm living in the guest house now. Good luck!

House design.jpg - 48kB

oladulce - 12-9-2007 at 04:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by morgaine7
From what you describe, I'd also put the main bedroom downstairs. Sounds like you'd end up using the guest room or laundry as a changing room. Kate


I can picture that exactly Kate- we'd each have a pile in the laundry room where we'd go to change throughout the day because it was more convenient.

El Jefe - 12-9-2007 at 04:32 PM

We put all our rooms on the first level and are glad we did. Our roof is a large open area with a ramada over part of it for shade. We put a half bath up there so our drunk friends wouldn't pee off the roof. Also works well when we have "campers" on the roof.

Think about wind protection on the roof. It can get cool on the pacific side and you will enjoy the outdoors upstairs if you can get out of the wind sometimes.

On hot nights we get a cool off-shore breeze that usually kicks in around 10PM. Probably the same happens at your place. We wish that we would have placed a large window on the inland side of the bedroom to allow a good air flow through the room and out the ocean side sliding door. Instead, the bathroom blocks that side. The wind blows parallel to the other wall with windows in the room. I'm thinking of making a scoop.......

Have fun with your project, and good luck.

fishbuck - 12-9-2007 at 04:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oladulce
Good responses- thank you.

Fishbuck- an elevated deck will provide amazing views so that's definite "must have" and it will be cool to have the computer /work-out room upstairs too. Putting the bedroom up there too was an afterthought.

Judy- You're right! Now I remember why I talked myself out of this before. I pictured hauling dirty clothes downstairs to wash, and carrying folded clothes back up stairs. We got hung up in the image of billowing curtans and soft light at sunset in an airy upstairs bedroom ...

I wonder if people who enjoy their master bedroom on the 2nd floor are those with full-time house keepers?

Al G- That's the kind of input I was looking for- if people would change their floorplan if they could. Thanks.


I know what you mean. I've been thinking of adding a second floor to my plan also!

oladulce - 12-9-2007 at 05:03 PM

Russ-

I love your island/eating area arrangement which looks like it will allow views for kitchen workers and diners, and you won't be tripping over the barstools in the work area. Very nice. We're not dining table-people. The 2 of us eat most of our meals at the counter- height eating bar and I'd like to be able to enjoy the view from this area rather than face in to the kitchen with our backs to the view like many bars are set up.

I'll have the electician/plumber (husband) read your other suggestions too.
He had to completely re-wire our guest casita after construction because it was so screwed up and it took him days just to figure out what the heck they had done. One of the reasons we're going to wait to build the main house until after we retire is so we can be on-site during construction and hopefully avoid un-doing and re-doing so many things. Any suggestions to make things easier are welcomed.

Russ - 12-9-2007 at 05:13 PM

The on site during construction idea is really one of the best ideas you could pass on.

oladulce - 12-9-2007 at 05:40 PM

El Jefe-

When we designed our guest casita, we made sure we had a window on the wall facing the predominant NW wind which would allow the breeze to blow across the bed. Unfortunately we discovered that in the hottest part of summer, the wind often starts up out of the south and can stay that way throughout the hottest part of the day before it swings around to the NW. That casita can get pretty stuffy and one tiny window on the south side would have made a big difference. Luckily we can learn from this when we're placing windows in the main house.

Hopefully many of the new miscalculations we'll be making on the main house will be correctable!

Putting that potty on your roof deck is one of the smartest ideas I've heard . We did make a "surf shower" room for rinsing off and hanging wetsuits to dry which is a room attached to the outside of the guest house (so it can share the water heater). If we were smart, we would have added a sink and toilet for easy access to a potty when we're working outside and for any "camping guests" like you described. Oh well...

mtgoat666 - 12-9-2007 at 05:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oladulce
It's solar powered and no Air condit in the plans. It's on the Pacific and gets plenty of side-shore/off shore "breezes" off the desert for ventilation. More of a problem is balancing open windows for ventilation with the ever-present dirt in the air.


2-story houses in hot climates are usually not very comfortable on the top floor. trudging up and down stairs is a PITA, no matter the climate. i recommend a single story home.
don't worry about dust and ventilation - let your maid worry about that.

SDRonni - 12-9-2007 at 06:25 PM

Take it from someone w/a master suite upstairs......downstairs is the better decision!!!

Downstairs

bajaguy - 12-9-2007 at 07:10 PM

My wife (bajablonde) and I both vote for the master bed and bath on the lower floor. See the attached floorplan of our Ensenada home.

PS: Broke my ankle once.......would never do stairs again!!!


http://www.bajacountryclub.com/floorplan.php?res=loreto&...

oladulce - 12-9-2007 at 07:37 PM

When a mtgoat tells you that climbing stairs to get to a bedroom is a pain, it would be silly not to listen. A ground floor master suite will be much more practical.

Thanks to all for your input.

I think we'll be keeping the upstairs computer room/weather forecasting center (esposo's hobby) and work-out space along with the view deck though. I'd like to add a walk-in closet type room off the office to keep filing cabinets, and for storage of important papers, tax returns, cameras etc, since this will be our main residence. Other ideas?

I'd love to hear any other suggestions: Things you wish you would have done on your house, or something you're happy you did?

Anything you'd design in to your dream Baja home?

[Edited on 12-10-2007 by oladulce]

2nd floor

bajaguy - 12-9-2007 at 07:50 PM

We put a loft over the dining room......going to be the office/retreat, 2 bedrooms one bath upstairs. Floorplan works great.

http://www.bajacountryclub.com/floorplan.php?res=loreto&...

oladulce - 12-9-2007 at 08:18 PM

Bajaguy- Is your loft separate from the bedrooms on the plan? Is the loft open to the rooms below? Is the loft access the same staircase?

We were considering eliminating one of the walls of the office so the room would open to the space below and allow a cathedral ceiling for a portion of the living room. Still considering the pros and cons something like this.

bajaguy - 12-9-2007 at 08:28 PM

Loft is directly over the dining room, access by the same staircase as the upstairs bedrooms/bath. It is seperate from the bedrooms and open to the living room/entry on the first floor and also open on the second floor.

greybaby - 12-9-2007 at 10:09 PM

The first house we built had the master on the second floor and I decided then and there I would never do that again. Even in my 20's it was a pain to go up and down. I would be ready to go out the door and realize something I needed upstairs. Haven't wavered in this over the years as we have bought and sold several homes. We have an upstairs bonus room now but I figure I don't have to go up there if I don't want to. Would definitely vote for the master on the main level. Hope you have a great experience building. We did almost all of the work on our little house in Baja and it was actually fun.

capt. mike - 12-10-2007 at 07:53 AM

Tom - Jefe = a Q for you - what was the outcome of the city water pump at todos?

vandenberg - 12-10-2007 at 07:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike
Tom - Jefe = a Q for you - what was the outcome of the city water pump at todos?

Now doesn't that belong in the thread hijack thread :?::?:

bajadock - 12-10-2007 at 10:19 AM

all of us experts on homebuilding...
Oladulce, congrats on building. Per Vendenberg's avatar, have fun with the process and your attitude.

One floor/ranch living is the best. My hillside lot and view require a second floor, but that is the main level and can still access it via car to rear entry. That was important consideration for my 80 year old parents' visits.

Things I would change? Didn't measure toilet to shower space properly in 2 bathrooms with walk-in showers. Waste line appeared OK, but forgot to measure for extended length toilet v. shower wall. How could the son of the plumber miss that one?

Happy details? Electric outlets in island and in main living are floor.
Also, how many nomads have cooktop in island? I had one in Colorado home, but prefer that space for food and beverages, as well as conversation in the round. Cooktop now against wall behind island.

Bajaguy's floorplan is a very efficient use of space for 2 stories. Russ' floorplan looks great. I didn't have enough space on my lot.

Best wishes on your adventure.

[Edited on 12-10-2007 by bajadock]

Russ - 12-10-2007 at 10:25 AM

During the summers I have to jury rig a wind screen for my stove top or it blows out. Small price to pay for air when it's hot and humid. Or stick with the BBQ.

bajadock - 12-10-2007 at 10:46 AM

Good extra Russ. I am adding a glass wall, 14' x 7' to protect from north and west winds on front terrace so that I can bbq and dine with protection.

capitolkat - 12-10-2007 at 01:05 PM

We just completed the design for our house in La Paz. All one floor but roof-top deck. We have 2d floor bedroom now and 13 foot ceilings make for a long climb and the laundry is in the basement so two flights for a load of wash each way. Thus, our choice for one level--Good luck-- Norm

elizabeth - 12-10-2007 at 02:44 PM

I realize this is a seriously minority opinion...I like the upstairs master bedroom! I feel that I have more privacy and security....I can leave windows open at night and live without curtains or shades. If you plan well, the laundry doesn't have to be a big deal...I just throw it down the stairs! Throwing it back up doesn't work, though. And, you could put the laundry upstairs where most of it comes from and goes. I forget stuff all the time, and go up and down stairs a lot, but I figure it's really good exercize!

Paula - 12-10-2007 at 09:45 PM

I totally agree with Elizabeth!! I've been following this thread, and was beginning to think I must be crazy to favor the upstairs bedroom, so I have stayed silent. To wake up with the sun and a great view is life-affirming, invigorating, romantic-- do it for as long as you can! Make a nice guest room on the main floor with an adequate closet and bath and use it if you want for those many changes of clothing during the day. You say you won't have many guests so the room is yours most of the time. Have a mudroom with shower near a back entrance to the house because you are active water and outdoor people, and it will save a lot of clean-up in the house.
When the stairs really become an issue, you won't need the spacious bath and walk-in closet-- your wardrobe will be smaller. and an ordinary bath will do. And with luck some younger people will come to visit from time to time, and they will LOVE the beautiful upstairs room.

bajajudy - 12-10-2007 at 10:54 PM

I wake up with the sunrise a head lift away.

bedroom down

wsdunc - 12-11-2007 at 01:07 PM

I live on a hill in So Cal in an upside down house. Bedrooms downstairs, living area upstairs. Because of the hill both floors can be entered from the outside. The best thing about this is that the sleeping areas stay cool in the summer and warm in the winter, due I assume to the insulation of the hill on one side of the bottom floor, as well as the "insulation" of the upper floor above. In all but the very hottest weather we are comfortable in the bedrooms. We rarely run the AC, and when we do it is only to make the upstairs survivable. I've decided that I like living in the warm and sleeping in the cool.
I had originally hoped to design an upside down baja house, but other factors seem to make this impossible. But if I could do an upside down house I would.

rivergirl - 12-11-2007 at 08:01 PM

I would say down stairs master bedroom. I know right now the last thing you are thinking about is selling but sometime in the future you might need to and a two story home can limit your buyers. I am a real estate agent and often see people that due to health reasons wont consider a two story home unless it has a master on the lower level. I know from experince that my husband and I will never own a two story without a master bedroom downstairs as even though we are in our 30's he has had two knee surgerys and cant do stairs everyday...

oladulce - 12-12-2007 at 12:49 AM

Thank you all, the input has been very helpful. A lower level master suite it will be!

Solar living is already more labor intensive (no dishwasher, possibly no clothes dryer, etc) so we should make the home's layout as practical as possible to achieve the most enjoyment out of it.

Elizabeth and Paula-
I could almost feel the breeze when I imagined that upstairs bedroom for the reasons you both mentioned (sigh...).

I wouldn't have been so easily swayed in this decision but we have one more building project to complete after Baja. On the next project we want to elevate the entire house with a pole-house design of some type because the location has elements that make it vulnerable to tsunami. So we'll still be able to have the lofty feeling of an upstairs bedroom in that home.

Bob and Susan - 12-12-2007 at 06:40 AM

we have a dishwasher...
it uses 6 gallons of HOT water and very little electricty for 35 minutes
take a look at new units and don't suffer in your retirement

see how much water you use when you "hand wash" a load of dishes:saint:

we have a dryer too...
we converted our old natural gas dryer from the states
EASY!!!
36 minutes to dry a load compared to 50 minutes in the states with natural gas
Too much dust in the air to "hang dry" everything:light:

now...
if i could ONLY harness that "static electricty"!!!:lol:

stairs...
i just put up some christmas lights on the lighthouse...
my calves (moooo) are sore!!!:O

up and down and up and down and up and down:wow:

ELINVESTIG8R - 12-12-2007 at 07:08 AM

Susan I would love to see some pictures of your lighthouse with Christmas lights. I bet that is a sight!

[Edited on 12-12-2007 by ELINVESTI8]

upstairs master bedroom could be classique

vivaloha - 12-12-2007 at 09:11 AM

just a little input from a fellow soon to be baja builder -

1) more wind upstairs - good for hotter climates especially in summer...
you'll want that cross vent during those hot months...
BUT maybe you mostly visit your property in the winter
and then the wind is cooler and the cross vent isn't as necessary.

2) bugs. getting off the desert floor is great if you happen to
have bobos (slow flying fruit flies) or mozzies or other bugs...
they usually don't fly so high up and the wind will knock 'em
around if you are up

3) elegant view - what's your view looking like...? I think you
mentioned that view thing already...in our consideration we
are thinking view on the second story could be dramatic...
Imagine waking up to the killer view..Imagine waking up to
no killer view but able to stumble out onto the desert floor
and be one with your favorite baja garden setting in the morning
sun..that said, should you / we be going for a sun deck or a roof
that could double as a sun deck...that would have the view
thing happening without the up / down to the bedroom thing (hassle)
previously discussed...sun deck is unprotected and less used then
a yummy bedroom so the view thing is only when you take the
time and energy to go up there, dust off the furniture and use it...

4) upstairs goals - what's the purpose of the second floor?
limited space on the property - probably not...is it for entertaining?
if yes, then think, food and drinks upstairs, upstairs wet bar w/
mini bathroom...Is it strictly for sleeping? If yes then what about this...
OK, so, picture the yummiest, coziest, smallish bedroom on the second floor
with a smallish deck attatched....Nice clothes in the closet, Beach clothes
down stairs...Window treatments, mood lighting, NOT really for 'others'
use...not for entertaining, just a quiet sanctuary for you and your spouse
to sleep and wake up and keep clean and not be used except for the 8 hours
of sleep plus a sunny wake up on the deck...then when it comes to eating
and food and such you are downstairs for that...BUT what about the midnight
tinkle tinkle...is it back downstairs to go pee? Or is it a simple tolit or system
which would be sanitary for #1 only...For number #2 forget about it- you're
going downstairs...

5) What about this....Lift the entire lower half 4 feet off the desert floor by
establishing a big old foundation which rises up...Then you have a bit of view
and you still are able to build a one story house....

Anyways, these are some of our same concerns and thoughts...

Good Luck with the building-

Vivaloha

oladulce - 12-13-2007 at 03:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by vivaloha[/i

3) elegant view - what's your view looking like...? previously discussed...sun deck is unprotected and less used then
a yummy bedroom so the view thing is only when you take the time and energy to go up there, dust off the furniture and use it...

4) upstairs goals - what's the purpose of the second floor?

5) What about this....Lift the entire lower half 4 feet off the desert floor by establishing a big old foundation which rises up...Then you have a bit of view
and you still are able to build a one story house....

vivaloha


We wouldn't use a "sun deck" either Vivaloha- we already get way too much sun exposure as it is. You're right, any spot without shade on our property does not get a lot of use. Shaded areas are a top priority.

The view at ground level ain't shabby, but the view from a 2nd story/roof deck will allow us to watch the take-off of a wave and then follow it as it peels around the point. The upper level deck is a must-have for us and we used the one at our previous house constantly. Its used for wave watching, whale watching, star gazing in lounge chairs at night, and for the summer afternoon lightning shows above the mesas.

The upper deck will be spacious and will be mostly shaded by a ramada style sombra or the roof over hang, and have a low, wide parapet wall surrounding it that's comfortable for sitting and propping your feet up.

There will also be an extensive shaded patio off the main living area below. I haven't put much thought in to the home design, but I do know what I want in the outdoor spaces and patios- lots of space, and lots of shade. To me, the components of the house are secondary to a good design for the outdoor spaces in this Baja home.

We will be elevating the foundation of the house, as well as the main patios and perimeter landscaping, about 4-5 ft above grade by retaining and backfilling. It's definitely worth the cost to get that extra elevation on the base level.

Ground level view


[Edited on 12-13-2007 by oladulce]

oladulce - 12-14-2007 at 10:16 AM

Thanks for the dishwasher tip Bob. I've been trying to come up with an idea for extra sink, or recessed spot in the countertop that would hide the dish drying rack.

We thought that the heating element for the water would suck up too much power so we've never considered one. We'll check out the power requirements and see if the cost in solar panels and batteries will be worth it. We don't mind doing dishes by hand since it's just 2 of us, but I really hate looking at that dang dish rack on the counter or hogging up the sink.

Great news about the low water usage too.

Al G - 12-14-2007 at 11:24 AM

oladulce...
I did not read every word here, but my dream would be for a Master down stairs, with a bath and open air bed on the the upper deck. This would be for the warm season with a fan above. I have debate with myself whether to screen it in with replaceable no-see-um netting or just use a hanging net over the bed...would be nice if that was not necessary. I am one who loves to sleep outdoors...feel the sunrise.
If the deck is needed for entertainment a wall bed could be used. I would recommend a quality air bed with a 3" memory foam top...will aid in lifting later...the lifting mechanism inside will need adjusting. To me this is what Baja is about. As I have not done this, I would be interested in what someone who has... thinks about it.

CP - 12-14-2007 at 02:24 PM

Dear Oladulce,
We are supposed to be changing our clothes multiple times each day?! No wonder you guys don't visit us very often...(-;

oladulce - 12-14-2007 at 09:56 PM

Aww, the two of yous' are as fresh as a rose CP.

Bob and Susan - 12-15-2007 at 06:01 AM

oladulce...
when you "visit" in january you'll have to take a look at the dishwasher and kitchen..

it wasn't the most expensive at "lowes"
about $500

very modern....for baja

i have that "kil-a-watt" electric tool so and we can "play"

remember we did "OK" with just regular
marine batteries earler in the year

you shouldn't suffer in your retirement:(
you didn't work ALL your life to "go without" ;);)
if you had it at "home"
then there is a way to have it here:lol: