BajaNomad - Baja's Mission Visitas

Baja's Mission Visitas

David K - 1-9-2008 at 09:19 AM

A 'vista' or 'estancia' was a satellite visiting station of a mission. Generally the padre visited it monthly to perform services, check on the local rancheria (settlement of natives) and so forth. Most missions had several visitas and often a vista would be the next mission in the chain.

Here are some photos of visitas (with the mission named it belonged to) from http://vivabaja.com/bajamissions

SAN JUAN BAUTISTA LONDO (Loreto)

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LA PRESENTACION (San Javier)

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SAN JOSE DE MAGDALENA (Mulege)

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SAN JACINTO (Todos Santos)

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SAN PABLO (Santa Gertrudis)

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CALAMAJUE (San Borja) Also, it was the site for Mision Santa Maria for a few months.

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SAN JUAN DE DIOS (San Fernando)

[Edited on 1-9-2008 by David K]

David K - 1-9-2008 at 01:00 PM

San Juan de Dios (as seen above) was reported plowed over, destroyed by a farmer or ejido... by John M and Neal Johns... Neither had been there before but used my GPS waypoint and directions to see the site.

On the small chance they were in the wrong spot, I hope to return and see for myself and take photos of what is truely a crime against history!

The site had been recognized by INAH and they did make a plan of the building layout... However, the site location was not published, marked, signed or fenced off... it was kept a 'secret', hidden by some brush from the road... Perhaps the ejido tractor driver didn't know, or did... but nobody else knew it was there, so it wouldn't be missed... and he can make more growing chiles on the land???

BAJACAT - 1-9-2008 at 08:55 PM

What about SANTA ANA for Mision San Borja..

Mango - 1-9-2008 at 09:48 PM

Interesting David. I think I may have spotted La Presentacion (San Javier) on the side of the road between San Javier and san Jose de Comondu recently.

My image was taken from the road. I think yours may be from the other side. If not.. do you know what it is?.. it was on the NE side of the road near a little rancho by a shallow wash. I'll have to look in my Baja Almanac to find where it was for sure.

David K - 1-10-2008 at 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJACAT
What about SANTA ANA for Mision San Borja..

I did go to Santa Ana in July, 2003 from Mision San Borja (a very tough, seldom used road) then on to San Ignacito where another San Borja visita was located.

I did not see any ruins at Santa Ana, but the graves are next to the road... the oasis is just south...

Here is the caption under that photo , in my 703 web page:

The site of a mission visiting station, today Santa Ana is abandoned.
A large oasis is in the back ground.
This small graveyard is next to the seldom traveled road at 28°41.47'/ 113°41.35'.
Two large graves next to this one can be seen at: www.bajataco.com/Baja/Padres-at-Rest.html

Here is bajataco's photo of the two large graves next to the one I photographed:

At Rancho San Ignacito are these adobe ruins and might be the remains of the San Borja vista of 'San Ignacio':

Caption reads: Adobe ruins at Rancho San Ignacito.
The oasis here was also the site of a San Borja visita (then called San Ignacio).
GPS: 28°44.34'/ 113°50.62' (NAD27).

Because I am not sure that was indeed the ruins of the visita, I did not include it in the group of vista photos.

David K - 1-10-2008 at 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mango
Interesting David. I think I may have spotted La Presentacion (San Javier) on the side of the road between San Javier and san Jose de Comondu recently.

Nope, La Presentacion is south of San Javier on the road to Santo Domingo/ Insurgentes... But a great photo of some ruins! There is an old 'horno' used to make adobe or tiles along the road to Comondu from San Javier.

Here is the photo again:

and the caption that is on the Baja missions web page with that photo: This chapel/ visita was probably built by the Franciscan Fr. Palou in 1769. Located 11 miles south of San Javier. Photo by Kevin Clough, 1-98.

La Presentacion about 1905... (the door way has recently collapsed, it was reported):

[Edited on 1-23-2014 by David K]

Mango - 1-10-2008 at 09:03 PM

Thanks for the info David. I looked on Google Earth and think I found the structure I took a photo of:

It was rather round.. almost like a tower of some sort. It could have been an oven of sorts. Not far from San Jose de Comondu. Baja Almanac has it right around a place named El Horno. So an oven would make sense.

I am almost positive the location is: (did not put a waypoint in my GPS ..Doh!)

25°59'46.61"N
111°42'37.19"W

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=25.996369,-111.

David K - 1-11-2008 at 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mango
Thanks for the info David. I looked on Google Earth and think I found the structure I took a photo of:

It was rather round.. almost like a tower of some sort. It could have been an oven of sorts. Not far from San Jose de Comondu. Baja Almanac has it right around a place named El Horno. So an oven would make sense.

I am almost positive the location is: (did not put a waypoint in my GPS ..Doh!)

25°59'46.61"N
111°42'37.19"W

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=25.996369,-111.

Your link ended (too long?) after the 111. ? What is te rest of the longitude #?

Thanks!

David K - 1-11-2008 at 02:16 PM

See El Horno and the ruins of 'Santa Rosalia' chappel mentioned in my post on the El Camino Real, in that area. I wonder if you photographed that ruin... or is the giant horno ruined... I will dig up a photo of it:

EL CAMINO REAL in Baja (Part 2), Loreto to Comondu

Baja Almanac Page 42:

From the first California mission of LORETO to the second, Mision San Francisco Javier, the mission trail utilized the canyon of LAS PARRAS to the first site of Mision San Javier which today is called RANCHO VIEJO. The modern auto road is built in the same canyon.

One tenth of a mile west of RANCHO VIEJO the Camino Real splits. To the left (south) goes the trail to SAN JAVIER (5.5 mi.). To the right (west) the Camino Real heads for Comondu and beyond.

On the Camino Real, 1.0 mi. from RANCHO VIEJO the old trail is joined by the Comondu auto road coming from the Loreto-San Javier road (junction at 1.0 mi. past Rancho Viejo).

2.2 mi. from Rancho Viejo another trail joins in from the south. This was the direct Camino Real from San Javier to Comondu, branching from the Loreto-San Javier trail at EL HORNO (Los Hornoso in the Almanac). This small triangle of trails shows the Jesuits built many roads to offer direct routes, much like modern highways.

4.0 miles from Rancho Viejo, the Camino Real turns left from the Comondu auto road and follows ARROYO SANTA ISABEL.

Baja Almanac Page 41:

EL PALMARITO is just south of the Camino Real which goes to a visita (visiting station) of San Javier known as Santa Rosalia (renamed Santa Roasalillita). A stone chapel ruin remained in 1955. Santa Rosalillita is not shown in the Almanac, but the Camino Real is. The old trail goes westerly for about 5 miles from the edge of the map (just above El Palmarito), then turns almost to the north and goes to QUINI.

The original Camino Real continued north from Quini to San Miguel Comondu (reaches top of Almanac page 41 at letter O, crosses the extreme lower left corner of Almanac page 40, and reaches SAN MIGUEL COMONDU, on map page 39.

When the newer mission of SAN JOSE COMONDU was moved to just north of San Miguel, the Camino Real was re-alligned at Quini to go more directly to San Jose Comondu passing between CERRO CAPI and CERRO COLORADO, on Almanac page 40.

XRPhlang - 1-11-2008 at 03:17 PM

The original site of La Primisma as showed to me by the old rancher that lives next to the site.

XRPhlang - 1-11-2008 at 03:21 PM

uh oh, I tried to attach the photo, but it didn't work. Can anyone help?

David K - 1-11-2008 at 03:35 PM

Just email me the photo and I will size it to Nomad specs and post it here for you... Jack Swords took photos at Purisima Vieja, but they only showed very little... so I never added it to the missions page. My email is info*at*vivabaja.com and put Baja in the subject line.

Here is the mention of it under the La Purisima photo:

The original site now called Purisima Vieja is at N 26°18.59' W 112°09.70' . (Waypoints on the mission page are at WGS84).

Here is a photo from Jack at the first Purisima mission location, where he found only a stone foundation:

[Edited on 1-11-2008 by David K]

Jack Swords Photos 033r.JPG - 49kB

David K - 1-11-2008 at 03:56 PM

Another angle on that stone foundation at Purisima Vieja, from Jack Swords, 2002:

Jack Swords Photos 049r.JPG - 50kB

David K - 1-11-2008 at 03:59 PM

The area of Purisima Vieja from Jack Swords, 2002:

Jack Swords Photos 032r.JPG - 44kB

XRPhlang #1 0f 2 (Purisima Vieja)

David K - 1-11-2008 at 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by XRPhlang
uh oh, I tried to attach the photo, but it didn't work. Can anyone help?

#2 of 2

David K - 1-11-2008 at 04:29 PM

Baja Sept 2007 044r.JPG - 46kB

Mango - 1-11-2008 at 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Your link ended (too long?) after the 111. ? What is te rest of the longitude #?

Thanks!

Ok David, try this link.. It should work. There was a little rancho just SE of the round structure. Also, I noticed a foundation(?) just across the road from the round structure on the satellite photo.

link

Sharksbaja - 1-11-2008 at 10:38 PM

So very cool, gracias David. I wonder how many of these are still undiscovered. I see you got the credit you deserved. Tommy Afrika was a busy guy

Here is a list I have from Google Earth:

List of Missions ... Mexico & California
Refs.: Wikipedia / Baja ... Wikipedia / California

MEXICO: Baja California Norté & Baja California Sur

Jesuit Establishments (1683-1767)

Misión San Bruno (1683-1685)
(1) Misión Nuestra Senora de Loreto Conchó (1697-1829)
(2) Misión San Francisco Javier Vigge Biaundó (1699-1817)
Visita de San Juan Bautista Londó (1699-1745)
(3) Misión San Juan Bautista Malbat (Liguí) (1705-1721)
(4) Misión Santa Rosalia de Mulegé (1705-1828)
(5) Misión San Jose de Comondú (1708-1827)
(6) Misión La Purisima Concepción de Cadegomó (1720-1822)
(7) Misión de Nuestra Señora del Pilar de La Paz Airapí (1720-1749)
(8) Misión Nuestra Senora de Guadalupe de Huasinapi (1720-1795)
(9) Misión Santiago de Los Coras (1721-1795)
(10) Misión Nuestra Senora de los Dolores del Sur Chillá (1721-1768)
(11) Misión San Ignacio Kadakaamán (1728-1840)
(12) Misión Estero de las Palmas de San José del Cabo Añuití (1730-1840)
(13) Misión Santa Rosa de las Palmas (Todos Santos) (1733-1840)
(14) Misión San Luis Gonzaga Chiriyaqui (1740-1768)
(15) Misión Santa Gertrudis (1752-1822)
(16) Misión San Francisco Borja (1762-1818)
Visita de Calamajué (1766-1767)
(17) Misión Santa María de los Angeles (1767-1768)
Visita de la Presentación (1769-1817)

Franciscan Establishments (1768-1773)

(1) Misión San Fernando Rey de España de Velicatá (1769-1772)
Established by Father Junipero Sierra in and taken over by the Dominicans, this is the only Franciscan mission built in Baja.

Dominican Establishments (1774-1849)

Misión San Fernando Rey de España de Velicatá (1772-1818)
Established by Father Junipero Sierra in and taken over by the Dominicans, this is the only Franciscan mission built in Baja.

(1) Misión Nuestra Señora del Santísimo Rosario de Viñacado (1774-1832)
Visita de San José de Magdalena (1774-1828)
(2) Misión Santo Domingo de la Frontera (1775-1839)
(3) Misión San Vicente Ferrer (1780-1833)
(4) Misión San Miguel Arcangel de la Frontera (1797-1834)
(5) Misión Santo Tomás de Aquino (1791-1849)
(6) Misión San Pedro Mártir de Verona (1794-1824)
(7) Misión Santa Catarina Vírgen y Mártir (1797-1840)
Visita de San Telmo (1798-1839)
(8) Misión El Descanso (San Miguel la Nueva) (1817-1834)
(9) Misión Nuestra Senora de Guadelupe del Norte (1834-1840)

David does this jive with your info.

Jack Swords - 1-12-2008 at 07:42 AM

Here is Fred's photo of the horno. When I saw it it had the sign too. Looks like someone took the sign. Part of the cement making process for the missions. Well located between Comondu and San Javier.

http://math.ucr.edu/ftm/bajaPages/BajaRoadPages/Route1/image...

Cypress - 1-12-2008 at 07:49 AM

Near Mulege is an old graveyard surrounded by a low stone wall about 40'x40'.

Cypress - 1-12-2008 at 08:14 AM

Photo of old grave near Mulege. The last photo got lost in cyberspace.

David K - 1-12-2008 at 10:18 AM

Mango, thanks to Jack (and Fred Metcalf's photo) we now can see that you photographed the El Horno ruin!

Sharks, there are some mistakes in that list... I don't have the time now, but later will correct...

Cypress, no photos showing! Thanks for trying! Email them to me if you want some help...

Have a great day gang!

XRPhlang - 1-12-2008 at 12:07 PM

El Horno 8/2007

Cypress - 1-12-2008 at 03:19 PM

David K. Did those pics make it to you? Had some tech problems on this end.

Cypress - 1-12-2008 at 04:53 PM

Sure Thanks

David K - 1-13-2008 at 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
So very cool, gracias David. I wonder how many of these are still undiscovered. I see you got the credit you deserved. Tommy Afrika was a busy guy

See my Baja Missions web page, featuring photos from Jack Swords, Kevin in OK, academicanachist, Ed Vernon and I: http://www.vivabaja.com/bajamissions/

The years each mission operated are given. However, there is new research always making changes, so we keep an open mind!

Some of the mission names in that Google list are not correct, La Presentacion should be grouped with the Franciscan section (note the date, after the Jesuits were expelled)... Santa Catarina is the name of the village today, but the mission was Santa Catalina...

OK, back to the Charger game now...

Cypress-1

David K - 1-13-2008 at 02:43 PM

Near Mulege is an old graveyard surrounded by a low stone wall about 40'x40'

[Edited on 1-13-2008 by David K]

Cypress-1.JPG - 42kB

Cypress-2

David K - 1-13-2008 at 02:44 PM

Photo of old grave near Mulege (this and previous photo from Cypress)

[Edited on 1-13-2008 by David K]

Cypress-2.jpg - 37kB

David K - 1-13-2008 at 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
So very cool, gracias David. I wonder how many of these are still undiscovered. I see you got the credit you deserved. Tommy Afrika was a busy guy

Okay, the Chargers beat the Colts... again... so back to Baja history!

On a seperate thread on the Baja Historic Interest forum I made the following list, which gives the year a mission was founded (and the year when it was abandoned)... year by year... along with the total # of missions open in that year:

Baja's Spanish Missions & Photos (the years each operated)

NOTE: this is a repost from June, 2004 to spawn new discussion on the fascinating history of Baja... the original California!

The Jesuits established 17 missions during their period in Baja California. The Franciscans just one at San Fernando Velicata. The Dominicans established 9, however Dr. Jackson says the last two (Descanso and Guadalupe del Norte) were new locations for San Miguel mission, and not 'seperate' missions.

The Franciscans and Dominicans did build at the Jesuit founded missions: Santa Maria's adobe church was built by the Franciscans. San Borja and Santa Gertrudis stone churches were built by the Dominicans and the stone San Ignacio church was completed by the Dominicans.

As missions were established and abandoned the actual total number on the peninsula at any one time makes an interesting list.

I will use Ed Vernon's excellent book LAS MISIONES ANTIGUAS for dates. New missions will be all CAPS and just the short version of the mission name is used. When the list shrinks, that year a mission was abandoned. Ligui was the first to be abandoned, in 1721. However, the inhabitants were moved that year to the new mission of Dolores.

1697: LORETO

1699: SAN JAVIER, Loreto

1705: LIGUI, MULEGE, San Javier, Loreto

1708: COMONDU, Mulege, Ligui, San Javier, Loreto

1720: LA PURISIMA, LA PAZ, GUADALUPE (DEL SUR), Comondu, Mulege, Ligui, San Javier, Loreto

1721: DOLORES, La Purisima, La Paz, Guadalupe, Comondu, Mulege, San Javier, Loreto

1724: SANTIAGO, Dolores, La Purisima, La Paz, Guadalupe, Comondu, Mulege, San Javier, Loreto

1728: SAN IGNACIO, Santiago, Dolores, La Purisima, La Paz, Guadalupe, Comondu, Mulege, San Javier, Loreto

1730: SAN JOSE DEL CABO, San Ignacio, Santiago, Dolores, La Purisima, La Paz, Guadalupe, Comondu, Mulege, San Javier, Loreto

1733: SANTA ROSA (Todos Santos), San Jose del Cabo, San Ignacio, Santiago, Dolores, La Purisima, La Paz, Guadalupe, Comondu, Mulege, San Javier, Loreto

1737: SAN LUIS GONZAGA, Santa Rosa, San Jose del Cabo, San Ignacio, Santiago, Dolores, La Purisima, La Paz, Guadalupe, Comondu, Mulege, San Javier, Loreto

1748: La Paz mission was moved to Todos Santos and the two missions blended into one, called PILAR*. San José del Cabo abandoned as a mission, remained as a visita of Santiago for the next 20 years. Total: 11 missions

* This is a simplistic answer for a much more complex situation at Todos Santos, possible fodder for a seperate article.

1752: SANTA GERTRUDIS (orig. to be called Dolores del Norte), San Luis Gonzaga, Pilar, San Ignacio, Santiago, Dolores, La Purisima, Guadalupe, Comondu, Mulege, San Javier, Loreto (12 missions)

1762: SAN BORJA, Santa Gertrudis, San Luis Gonzaga, Pilar, San Ignacio, Santiago, Dolores, La Purisima, Guadalupe, Comondu, Mulege, San Javier, Loreto (13 missions)

1766: SANTA MARIA founded at CALAMAJUE but moved in 1767, San Borja, Santa Gertrudis, San Luis Gonzaga, Pilar, San Ignacio, Santiago, Dolores, La Purisima, Guadalupe, Comondu, Mulege, San Javier, Loreto (Total 14 missions operating)

1768: JESUITS removed from the New World. Their 14 missions (that year) were reduced to 12 with the ordered closing of San Luis Gonzaga and Dolores by the Spanish government. Only Ligui, Santa Rosa, and San José del Cabo had been abandoned during their period on Baja. The mission at San José del Cabo was re-opened by the Franciscans in 1768. Total 13 missions.

1769: SAN FERNANDO was founded by the Franciscan Junipero Serra on his way to San Diego. Total net 14 missions.

1774: DOMINICANS take over from the Franciscans who expand into Alta California, and establish ROSARIO (15 on the peninsula this year)

1775: SANTO DOMINGO added and Santa María closed (15 total missions operating)

1780: SAN VICENTE (16)

1787: SAN MIGUEL (17)

1791: SANTO TOMAS (18)

1794: SAN PEDRO MARTIR (total 19 missions operating this year, the maximum in Baja California)

1795: Guadalupe del Sur and Santiago are abandoned (17 total)

1797: SANTA CATALINA founded (18 total)

1817: DESCANSO founded and San Javier abandoned (18 total)

1818: San Borja, San Fernando abandoned (16 total)

1822: La Purisima, Santa Gertrudis abandoned (14 total)

1824: San Pedro Martir abandoned ( 13 total )

1827: Comondu abandoned ( 12 total )

1828: Mulege abandoned ( 11 total )

1829: Loreto abandoned ( 10 total )

1832: Rosario abandoned ( 9 total )

1833: San Vicente, San Miguel abandoned (7 total)

1834: GUADALUPE (DEL NORTE) founded, Descanso abandoned. Remaining missions still operating this year: San Ignacio, San Jose del Cabo, Santo Domingo, Santo Tomas, Santa Catarina, Pilar (Todos Santos) TOTAL in 1834: 7

Of interest, Guadalupe del Norte was the last California mission founded (Baja and Alta).

Note: Various authors have various dates for the missions' operation.

The last mission officially operating was Santo Tomas, until 1849. The others that were still open all closed in 1839 to 1840.

[Edited on 1-23-2014 by David K]

Cypress - 1-13-2008 at 02:56 PM

David K Thanks for posting those pics.

XRPhlang - 1-13-2008 at 03:19 PM

Ok, If this works, thank's to David K

El Horno 8 / 2007

Baja Sept 2007 076R.JPG - 38kB

XRPhlang - 1-13-2008 at 03:40 PM

Now that I know how to do this, here are three more pics. from my motorcycle trip last Sept.

I was told that these are the remains of mision La Purisma
(not vieja).

Baja Sept 2007 034R.JPG - 48kB

La Purisma

XRPhlang - 1-13-2008 at 03:42 PM

Baja Sept 2007 035R.JPG - 49kB

La Purisma

XRPhlang - 1-13-2008 at 03:47 PM

Baja Sept 2007 036R.JPG - 47kB

David K - 1-13-2008 at 07:51 PM

Here's a photo of the mission location from Jack... notice the peak 'El Pilon' in the background:

Here was the La Purisma mission church about 1905 before it fell:

[Edited on 1-23-2014 by David K]

BAJACAT - 1-19-2008 at 09:26 PM

David, the pictures from that trip That i made on April/06.I developed the pix,and didn't botther to get a cd,you see the camera wasn't a digital one. so what I did I took a pix of the original pix,so it's not going to be that great.This walls ruins are located a few feet next to the Padres cementery.I think they are the same ones from your pix.it was fun getting there,I put alot battle scare's to my truck,but it was all worth it.hehe... B^J^C^T

Santa Ana visita 001.JPG - 43kB

BAJACAT - 1-19-2008 at 09:29 PM

pix #2

Santa Ana visita 002.JPG - 43kB

David K - 1-21-2008 at 08:47 AM

Cool! I didn't notice any adobe ruins when we came upon the big tombs 'padres at rest'... I will have to go back!

bajalera - 2-18-2008 at 06:21 PM

The mission road between Loreto and San Javier, which followed an Indian trail through Las Parras canyon, was widened by a work crew of nine soldiers and some friendlyl Indians. They were directed by a captain from the Loreto presidio who had opened roads through the Barranca del Cobre on the mainland, and accompanied by Padre Francisco Piccolo.

The path the workers widened, using crowbars, picks, axes and spades, skirted towering cliffs and descended into deep ravines. The surface was strewn with so many sharp rocks that the men's shoes wore out and had to be resoled.

One day they came to a place where it was obvious that the project was going to take several months, far longeer than had been planned. Padre Salvatierrs wrote that while the men in charge were trying to figure out what to do, "an Indian from Vigge came and said it was more practical to make the road on the other side.

"Don Cristobal Guitierrez and soldier Melchor de Luna accompanied the Indian, and later in walking a little ways they found the other trail, and on seeing it recognized the great advantage of opening the road through there in three days instead of three months."

Yes, Guitierrez and Luna "found the other trail" and "recognized the great advantage" of the alternate route. After if had been pointed out to them by the Indian from Vigge.

Knowing nothing about road building, this man had watched the strangers at work, had visualized what they were trying to do, and was able to transfer their project to a site he recognized as being more suitable.

As thought processes go, those of this unschooled engineer-without-portfolio were nothing short of amazing. So they rewarded him with baptism, bestowing on him the name they considered fitting: "Angel."

For the problem he had solved was so difficult that no mere mortal could have achieved this on his own. Angel had obviously been sent to them by Divine Intervention from on high. [Although it seems fair to ask: if this particular mortal had been blessed with white skin, blond hair and blue eyes, would God have found it necessary to send an angel to help out?]

[Edited on 2-25-2008 by bajalera]

David K - 9-18-2008 at 04:06 PM

Great story bajalera!

Thank you for adding to this thread!

BAJACAT - 9-18-2008 at 06:51 PM

Right now Im working in the Pala indian res. there they have a visita,SAN ANTONIO DE PAUDA.Very cool stuff..

Neal Johns - 9-19-2008 at 12:22 PM

bajalera, I am a little late joining this thread, but thanks for a great post.

woody with a view - 9-19-2008 at 01:14 PM

Quote:

However, the site location was not published, marked, signed or fenced off... it was kept a 'secret', hidden by some brush from the road...

Hmmmm...... :light:

David K - 9-19-2008 at 03:54 PM

Woody... a 'secret' to the average person, but well known to INAH ( who documented and surveyed it a historical site, but left no signage) and the Espinoza family who probably owns the land (Sony Espinoza showed me the site). Thank God for that so both I and Jack Swords could take perhaps the last photos of it before the tractor driver destroyed it!

David K - 9-19-2008 at 07:13 PM

Here is a satellite closeup of the site (before being plowed over). It is on the edge of the lower resolution region... Note the road coming up out of Arroyo San Juan de Dios heading east... the bends to the north and back east again. The ruins were just south of that bend in the road... You can see some outlines in the image: San Juan de Dios

[Edited on 9-20-2008 by David K]

David K - 10-12-2008 at 10:14 AM

Bump...