BajaNomad - Has recent border crime altered your trips to Baja?

Has recent border crime altered your trips to Baja?

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tripledigitken - 1-9-2008 at 10:22 AM

I have changed the way I visit Baja, but not visiting isn't an option for me.

I have to say I wish we could roll back time about 15 years though.

Ken

[Edited on 1-9-2008 by tripledigitken]

Al G - 1-9-2008 at 11:13 AM

Ken, I won't vote in this as I see it lessening the seriousness of the events that has created what little effort the government has provided...we need to make it clear that change is needed and the corrupt cops are put in jail.
People with a lot of Baja experience have little to fear, but others are walking into a very serious risk to their life and property.
I will go in through end of this month, but if anything major happens, I will fly down for just 6 weeks and come back until Baja Norte get it's act together...

DanO - 1-9-2008 at 11:19 AM

I will no longer drive at night north of Ensenada, which is too bad, since we used to bomb down late at night after work. That loses essentially half a day for travel, but avoiding the risk is worth it. Won't stop to eat anywhere north of Ensenada either even in daylight, unless the truck is parked where I can see it or I can get it inside the chained up lot at La Fonda. Little matter, as there are tons of great places to eat in Ensenada these days.

Also, as a consequence of the increasing car thefts in Ensenada (a good friend's F250 containing all of his contracting equipment was stolen right outside the sports book last November, among other things), I will not leave my truck parked in that town where I can't see it, even though it has 92,000 miles on it.

tripledigitken - 1-9-2008 at 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G
Ken, I won't vote in this as I see it lessening the seriousness of the events that has created what little effort the government has provided...

This was not done to make light of the situation believe me.

Just a poll to see what changes Nomads have made in their travel plans.

Ken

Hook - 1-9-2008 at 11:40 AM

I consider myself an oldtimer, I guess. I am not afraid as much as I am making a personal statement that things must change before I venture down. I would not shun the toll road if I were going, unless it was dark.

I'd say it probably has cost Baja 5-10 trips down over the last year and a half. Most of those would have been the weekend runs to the La Mision to Ensenada corridor for eats, drinks and light shopping.

I see this poll as potentially pretty significant for anyone interested in this issue to see, as I would rate the average Nomad much more of a chance taker than the average person considering going to Baja. If it has altered a significant number of Nomads' plans, I would personally extrapolate that to affecting a MUCH larger percentage of the general population in the US.

tripledigitken - 1-9-2008 at 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

I see this poll as potentially pretty significant for anyone interested in this issue to see, as I would rate the average Nomad much more of a chance taker than the average person considering going to Baja. If it has altered a significant number of Nomads' plans, I would personally extrapolate that to affecting a MUCH larger percentage of the general population in the US.

My thoughts exactly! I was surprized by DK's quote this morning on another thread..."We have Baja Nomad to keep us happy until it is safe to return..."

If seasoned Baja travelers feel unsafe in Baja, what does that say for the average traveler, let alone one wanting to go for the first time?

Ken

[Edited on 1-9-2008 by tripledigitken]

4baja - 1-9-2008 at 11:51 AM

after my buddy was shot driveing at night on the toll road i no longer drive at night in that area. i still have to go and get my fix :bounce:

Bajagypsy - 1-9-2008 at 12:03 PM

We will and do still travel down, just are a bit more aware of when we are travelling and what is going on around us.

CaboRon - 1-9-2008 at 12:07 PM

I´ve got no choice .... I live in Baja Sur ......

CaboRon

tripledigitken - 1-9-2008 at 12:10 PM

Cabo Ron,

You have a couple of choices, you can fly and you can avoid the Toll road if you drive.

Ken

[Edited on 1-9-2008 by tripledigitken]

Hook - 1-9-2008 at 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
I´ve got no choice .... I live in Baja Sur ......

CaboRon

Well. at least you have flying for an option.

Imagine being invested from San Quintin to maybe Mulege. Now, THAT's pretty much no choice.

I guess Capt Mike might disagree............. :lol:

Sunman - 1-9-2008 at 12:18 PM

Nope

David K - 1-9-2008 at 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken

Quote:

Our trip to the El Rosario Festival, Asuncion, & Mulege last July was our last trip to Baja... We did take time out for the Baja 1000 in November, but with the recent mafia activity and what happened to the surfers and later the 1000 race team member family... we happily did a tour of Arizona instead.

I love Baja so very much, but the senseless murders Antonio's two brothers-in-law in Nov. '06 had quite an impact on our thinking... and when more police were murdered and now tourists attacked, it is time to give Mexico a loud message... and they respond the quickest when we stop bringing money down...

I am sure that the draw of Baja on me will cause me to cross the border soon enough, but it would be nice to have some law and order established, even if by martial law...

I do hope that things are good so that we may enjoy the Baja-Rosario Cultural Festival next July. Until then, I will probably cross at Mexicali and just stick with beach vacations on Shell Island or Gonzaga Bay as I had done for so many years before.

If Baja stays a mess, than we will be enjoying Hawaii our next vacation! ALOHA!!

Bajaboy - 1-9-2008 at 12:37 PM

Nope-I still cross the border between 4-5am. I miss all the traffic which in my opinion is much safer and quicker.

Zac

Von - 1-9-2008 at 01:10 PM

what about a little bit? I hate that border!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I miss my BaJA!

Hook - 1-9-2008 at 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy
Nope-I still cross the border between 4-5am. I miss all the traffic which in my opinion is much safer and quicker.

Zac

What are you driving? A Taco?

No one wants one of those. :lol:

I have to question whether those who say it has no effect havent actually altered their departure and return times to avoid The Gauntlet at night. I never avoided night driving on the toll road the way I might have in other parts of the pen. Sure wouldnt do it now.

Well, maybe with 2000 troops along the route..........

[Edited on 1-9-2008 by Hook]

DianaT - 1-9-2008 at 01:30 PM

We just cross the border a little later than before and only return during the daylight.

But since we now own a home here, we actually cross the border more than before.

Do hope things improve, however. We are never real comfortable parking in Ensenada while we shop at Home Depot and/or Costco.

Diane

Acuity - 1-9-2008 at 01:36 PM

We don't drive at night, but we do still use the toll highway, and look to go when there's lots of traffic - say Saturday am. We are careful, and don't drive an ostentatious vehicle.

It would apear that it is getting more dangerous even when you're actually down here, judging by the number of bold, repeat robberies.

I wish we could go back to the days of innocence, but ...

Skipjack Joe - 1-9-2008 at 01:44 PM

Like most of you we are in the wait and see mode for a while.

Since the shootings are not totally random in baja, but occur in certain locations and during certain blocks of time we feel the odds are still overwhelmingly in our favor if we do things 'right'. So there is a sense of nervousness (that has actually been increasing steadily for a decade) in our travels but we still plan to go to baja at our next opportunity.

salvavida - 1-9-2008 at 01:49 PM

Yep, altered my habits for sure. No more weekend trips with my wife and kids. Who likes to be on guard just to drive for lunchtime tacos? I used to drive 12 hours at night solo to get to my favorite place(never was advisable,I know). Now it takes the better part of two days so I can be sure to drive during daylight ,and I only travel with an experienced co-pilot, no longer alone. The feeling of freedom in the Norte and Central is gone but maybe some structured law enforcement will restore a sense of safety. I like driving down there and flying/staying in a hotel is just not the same as camping. It's more of a bummer that my kids wont experience Baja so close to the border the way I did.

Cypress - 1-9-2008 at 01:49 PM

I'd advise taking David K.'s advice, he's crossed the border more times than 95% of the posters on this board, maybe 99%. :yes:

DianaT - 1-9-2008 at 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
I'd advise taking David K.'s advice, he's crossed the border more times than 95% of the posters on this board, maybe 99%. :yes:

If we did that, we would have to abandon either our home in Imperial Beach, or our home in Bahia Asuncion and we are just not willing to do that.

Cypress - 1-9-2008 at 02:10 PM

jdtrotter, You've got more homes than a lot of people. :tumble:

BajaGeoff - 1-9-2008 at 02:32 PM

Business as usual for me. I drive the toll road between the border and Ensenada several times a month for work/fun. I always drive during the daylight hours and will continue to do so in the future

tripledigitken - 1-9-2008 at 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
jdtrotter, You've got more homes than a lot of people. :tumble:

Probably because these fine people have worked hard and saved their money.

Congrats on your new home in Baja by the way.

Cypress - 1-9-2008 at 03:11 PM

tripledigitken, I wish 'em only the best for both of their homes and any other homes they acquire.

tripledigitken - 1-9-2008 at 03:23 PM

As do I, I just thought with all the bad news that Nomads who live in Baja have had to face recently that a compliment to some nice people wouldn't hurt.

Ken

vgabndo - 1-9-2008 at 03:36 PM

I'd like to avoid everything north of San Quintin, but I'll have to be satisfied with crossing at Tecate because I won't stop going. From San Nicolas', which is absolutely placid, the only streach is provisioning trips to Loreto. Not bad. Last year my fear cost me. When I got pulled over, mid-morning in the early phase of the crooked motorcycle cop scam within sight of the fence, I was (for the first time) so scared of the uniformed thief that I gave him way more mordida than the situation traditionally required. My wife is flying this year. :no:

I'll be much more careful and have an accompanying vehicle going with me.

Frank - 1-9-2008 at 04:15 PM

No more weekend runs to the areas from TJ to Ensenada for us, 7-9 trips annually. We will only drive that area during daylight hours.

I still have trips planned for Camalu, Asuncion, La Paz and Los Barriles via Mex1. If nothing is done to stop the madness, we will visit Costa Rica instead.

rts551 - 1-9-2008 at 04:16 PM

No effect. Have crossed at Tecate for the last 20 years.

rts551 - 1-9-2008 at 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
I'd advise taking David K.'s advice, he's crossed the border more times than 95% of the posters on this board, maybe 99%. :yes:

Interested in how you came to this conclusion and how you know how many times people cross.

SDRonni - 1-9-2008 at 04:20 PM

Yes........when we go now, which isn't very often, rather than enjoy the beautiful coastline view, I'm "white-knuckling" it until we reach our destination!

tripledigitken - 1-9-2008 at 04:33 PM

over 75% still will drive to Baja. :tumble:

I'm glad to hear that!

Ken

[Edited on 1-9-2008 by tripledigitken]

Oso - 1-9-2008 at 04:58 PM

Since I live in San Luis, AZ, I almost never use the toll road anyway. I swing down to Mex 5 about halfway between Mexicali and San Felipe and then either down THAT road or over to Mex 1 south of Ensenada. I'd like to shop for some furniture in the Muebles Rusticos places in Rosarito one of these days but the last time I was there, prior to the current crime wave, the traffic was so bad I couldn't stand it. I think the only reason I would go back to that area now would be for pastrami if Dave reopened.

Frankly, the main pucker factor for me has always been getting sideswiped or run off the shoulderless Mex 1, rather than getting robbed or shot. But, now that I drive an '04 Tacoma instead of the '82 Chevy, I am very reluctant to let it out of my sight, even with alarm, the "club" and large dog on duty.

Barry A. - 1-9-2008 at 05:21 PM

My friends, family, and I quit going to Baja (after some 52 years) about 3 years ago-----mostly because of the increase in crime, but also because of the crowds-------we have always sought adventure in the "wilds", and that is just harder and harder to get down there. But, it still exists, and I could be talked into going if there were several vehicles going, and we could just "motor" thru the northern "civilized" (??) area-----

My biggest complaint is "having to worry about it"----that takes a lot of the fun out of going-----

USA is just a great alternative until things improve dramatically down there.

barry

Cypress - 1-9-2008 at 05:45 PM

rts551, An educated guess? :spingrin:

DENNIS - 1-9-2008 at 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
USA is just a great alternative until things improve dramatically down there.

barry

It's about time somebody made this suggestion. Thanks Barry.

David K - 1-9-2008 at 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
rts551, An educated guess? :spingrin:

I am sure there are a ton of Nomads who cross the border more than I... Also, there are even Nomads who have seen more of Baja than I (maybe)... at least have been to areas I still haven't seen! LOL

Not counting trips to TJ to visit with Antonio and Lorenia, we have made trips to Baja up to 13 times a year from 2000 to 2007. (most of them are listed on my web site so you all can enjoy the photos). Last year, just 4 trips...

You know what I say? "So much Baja... so little time!"

That has changed to "So much crime... not Baja this time!"

Serously, I do want to be there for my research, camping, hiking, four wheeling, off road race spectating or support... This situation is pretty sad.

Thanks to Doug Means for hosting Baja Nomad to give us a fix while we are north of the border! :bounce:

surfer jim - 1-9-2008 at 06:18 PM

I'm on "hold" until better news comes along...

HotSchott - 1-9-2008 at 06:42 PM

Since there are several toll roads in Northern Baja, I will qualify my response. I have absolutely no desire to venture through TJ to anywhere on the West Coast. I am completely over Rosarito - the place is a complete dump with the exception of Vince's Restaurant.

I miss the desert, but I have reduced my travels to almost none in the last 18 months. I have spent 30 - 45 days in Baja deserts and beaches camping for each of the last 15 years. It ain't worth it any more. Way too much BS and way too many a$$holes. I simply don't feel safe without my guns and I'm not going to risk getting tossed in a Mexican jail to feel safe. I will probably consider going more with a group, but I really don't like groups - maybe just with certain individuals.

There is so much of the USA I have not explored. It was always convenient to travel South from San Diego, but that has changed so dramatically and so quickly. I am not done with Mexico, but most of my trips will be on a sport fishing boat 30 miles offshore. I am a really bad victim and I will not put my wife in harms way to satisfy my personal desire to be in Baja wilderness. The world is changing. Everything is different now. I am neither paranoid nor elitist, but I will not be a statistic for some dumb POS looking for easy, unarmed prey. It is really kinda sad.

longlegsinlapaz - 1-9-2008 at 07:25 PM

Ken, as I believe CaboRon was implying, those of us that live here full-time are in a slightly different position. I've made the drive many, many times...probably as often alone as with someone. NEVER driven at night. I haven't made the drive for 3 years, but I definitely wouldn't make it with the increased incidents against tourists over the past year+. If I HAD to go to the states now, I'd fly. And I'm sooooo glad I live as far south as I do! Not that there isn't crime down here too, but just humor me & let me keep on thinking it's much safer down here! :lol:

BajaBros - 1-9-2008 at 08:09 PM

I've been driving and flying to Baja since the mid 60's. I raced SCORE for over 11 years. But now I won't go on the TJ/Ensenada side UNLESS I'm caravaning with 4 or more other vehicles filled with Baja-savy travelers AND we're just passing through. Enough people have suffered at the hands of unrestrained Baja drug a-holes that it just isn't worth the risk. When the San Felipe SCORE race moved to Ensenada last year, I pulled out of the competition. I lost some money, but screw Ensenada. For me, Ensenada has sucked since the day twelve years ago when my second wife and I were accosted on the street by Mexican druggies. The bloom was officially off the rose. This year I will be going to San Felipe for the SCORE race, but I won't relax. Hopefully, the east side will remain less screwed up than the west side.

Bernardo - 1-9-2008 at 08:18 PM

I have a casita in La Paz and spend the winters there. I drive through Tecate and usually spend the nite further south than Ensenada. I only drive during daylight hours. I do stop at a large grocery store on the west side of the main highway out of Ensenada and have absolutely no problems. I use the ATM there to stock up on pesos and park my truck, camper and trailer in the parking lot. Grande lot so no problems with parking. I did stay in an RV park just as the highway from Tecate hits the Ensenada highway and no problems. TJ sucks. I had enough of that place when I was in the navy stationed in San Diego in 1956. No mas para me.

Use your heads people. Do not drive at night and stay in a gated motel or RV park. There are parts of San Diego I would not drive through at night either and some I certainly would not spend the night in as well.

Bajalover - 1-9-2008 at 08:18 PM

I really, really, really love Baja and have visited it 1000's of times during the last 30 years. YET

the crime and having to put my life on the line isn't worth the wonderful beaches and camping places in Baja. I just wonder how BOLA camps are coping with the lack or decreased visitors? Daggets is a great place, wonder if he's full? Most likely with folks traveling from Canada.
ONCE MEXICO'S POLITICIANS BEGIN CLEANING UP so it's safe to travel again, Hey, I'll be there.
Sorry to miss kayaking in LA Bay this year. Hopefully next year will be better again.

Common Sense Travel Rules Apply

Gypsy Jan - 1-9-2008 at 08:35 PM

Travel in daylight or early evening, i.e., when locals are going to work, taking kids to school and/or returning home to family.

When you park, keep the vehicle in sight or leave a fellow travel partner in the vehicle.

Travel with dog(s) - this does not cancel the above rule.

Be aware of your surroundings - when visiting an ATM, look around and be alert, and block any one's view of what you are doing.

Don't open a wallet and flash cash in public no matter where you are. Figure out what your puchase is going to cost and separate that amount for the transaction.

Keep in mind that Mexico is a third world country - whatever your level of income, your are still rich by their standards and eyes will follow you, everywhere.

Al G - 1-9-2008 at 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
over 75% still will drive to Baja. :tumble:

I'm glad to hear that!

Ken

[Edited on 1-9-2008 by tripledigitken]

Ken...don't know how you are figuring, but the first three lines all mean the same thing and added together it is closer to 50/50....
An outright condemnation of Baja Norte if you ask me....

Al G - 1-9-2008 at 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
Travel in daylight or early evening, i.e., when locals are going to work, taking kids to school and/or returning home to family.

When you park, keep the vehicle in sight or leave a fellow travel partner in the vehicle.

Travel with dog(s) - this does not cancel the above rule.

Be aware of your surroundings - when visiting an ATM, look around and be alert, and block any one's view of what you are doing.

Don't open a wallet and flash cash in public no matter where you are. Figure out what your puchase is going to cost and separate that amount for the transaction.

Keep in mind that Mexico is a third world country - whatever your level of income, your are still rich by their standards and eyes will follow you, everywhere.

Jan...not trying to do battle and what you say will help for sure...but I have got to say WHY....

tripledigitken - 1-9-2008 at 09:29 PM

Al,

the second question refers to avoiding the toll road, but still driving. the fourth question no change to traveling, currently those 2 total 7o percent, when I posted it was 75 percent. Doesn't imply an affirmation of baja norte just the willingness of 7O percent of voters to still venture south.

ken

Al G - 1-9-2008 at 09:46 PM

Sorry Ken...I thought we were Talking "Has recent border crime altered your trips to Baja? " :?:

Terry28 - 1-9-2008 at 10:07 PM

Gypsy Jan makes nothing but sense. Since we have homes outside of Rosarito and Mulege we travel a lot in Baja and have for over 40 years. When I was younger and single I created any problems that really occured.
Now, older and hopefully a little wiser we have very few problems and we are there often, either surfing in the Rosarito area or hanging in Mulege.
Use your common sense and you should be problem free. I would say just act like you would in Oakland at night but I would hear from too many Oaklandites I'm sure. I still know our 13 yr old daughter is safer in Baja then in the states..........

Ken Cooke - 1-9-2008 at 10:21 PM

In March '07, I bought a 1 year Insurance policy so I could go whenever I wanted. I still go to Baja, just not like I did prior to 9/11 due to crowds and lines at the border. I feel bad for those hurt/injured along Hwy 1 between Ensenada & TJ. I still love it there...

Trying to clear a boulder on Basketball Hill along the legendary Pole Line Road - Baja, Mexico...

dean miller - 1-10-2008 at 06:44 AM

We missed a spring trip due to illness.

We missed Thanksgiving due to visitors

We missed Christmas due to illness.

Unless the Mexican government restores order we are seriously considering joining the ranks of David and visit SW USA, and I have been visiting Baja since December 1951

If circumstances had allowed Baja travel we would have significantly altered our travel routine, which in past has included a late afternoon crossing at TJ, driving at night on toll road, through Ensenada to Santo Tomas and over nighting down the hill way in the back with our last hook up at El Palomar...

sdm

805gregg - 1-10-2008 at 08:03 AM

I will avoid Baja for the time being, not because of my fear of crime but because of the general degradation of Baja overall. My wife and I spent 2 weeks driveing around BCS this last summer and spent another week flying into Loreto and driving around, the Baja of today just does't do it for me anymore. They say you can't go back, they are right after more than 40 years visiting Baja, the changes are too much. I always thought I would have a little casita in Baja for my retirement but now I will have to look elsewhere.

Pescador - 1-10-2008 at 08:27 AM

It is interesting to me how this tends to take on a life of it's own. The police harrasment and mordida has been going on for as long as I can remember and everyone used to talk about it and most kept a small stash of dollar bills to get out of any scrape with officials that they crossed paths with. It was a part of the story and lore of Mexico travel. The highjackings were a different matter and did strike fear in the heart of travelers. Most people are already a little uncomfortable when they come into a foreign land with strange language and customs and it is easy to have that fear magnified when these stories abound. Even though I have been coming to Mexico since the early 70's, speak the language, and understand a fair amount of the culture, I admit that I always breath a sigh of relief when I cross the border back into the US. Even though I hear a lot of negatives about the political structure and goings on of the US, it is obvious that people are able to travel freely and securely in the US. When we had an outbreak of shootings and violence in the Southeast and Florida, it was a very short time until peace and order were reestablished. When I went to Florida to pick up a new boat two years ago, we found one or sometimes two security guards in the rest areas and were able to feel very safe spending the night in the camper.
But for all these years you had the adventurer who chose to travel to Baja because things were more primitive and uncontrolled, but it was more like a Disneyland trip where everyone thought they could camp on the beaches (safely) and travel wherever they wanted (safely) and not have to fear violence. I guess that the illusion is finally over and people are begining to make choices about how far outside of their envelope they are willing to go. I certainly travel with more apprehension now and do not do some of the things I did when I was younger and more foolish, but I am also aware that I have a long ways to go before I am not going to winter in Baja.

bajadock - 1-10-2008 at 08:33 AM

Non-scientific poll to be certain, but, with the pessimistic news and conversations lately, why 50% "no effect"?

DENNIS - 1-10-2008 at 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
The police harrasment and mordida has been going on for as long as I can remember and everyone used to talk about it and most kept a small stash of dollar bills to get out of any scrape with officials that they crossed paths with.

It has been going on forever but, like cancer, it doesn't stay in early stages. It grows until it kills.

CaboRon - 1-10-2008 at 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

It has been going on forever but, like cancer, it doesn't stay in early stages. It grows until it kills.

Well said Dennis.

CaboRon

DianaT - 1-10-2008 at 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
jdtrotter, You've got more homes than a lot of people. :tumble:

Probably because these fine people have worked hard and saved their money.

Congrats on your new home in Baja by the way.

I would love to have a third home in Montana. :lol:

Flying is not an option for us---unless we can hire a plane that is small enough to land at our airstrip here and still carry two adults, two dogs, and a pick-up size load (packed real full) of goodies---guess we will still drive. : :lol:

One thing that has changed for us is who we stop for on the highways. On our dirt road, we stop for almost anyone. On the road to Vizcaino we are guilty of profiling--older, families, etc., but three young men---no. We have been warned by people here that some people from this pueblo have been robbed by people stopped on that highway so we need to be careful.

We know crime can happen to anyone and know it has grown. Then again, someone mentioned Hawaii---last time my sister was there, she and her group were robbed at gun point.

For the sake of the people in Baja, we do hope more will be done---so bad for the business people up north.

Diane

Hook - 1-10-2008 at 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajadock
Non-scientific poll to be certain, but, with the pessimistic news and conversations lately, why 50% "no effect"?

I questioned that earlier in the thread, too. Within the first 20 or so votes, the "no-effect" vote grew dramatically...........yet presumably those same posters were admitting to altering their departure schedules in their comments. That is NOT "no-effect", especially when your travels take you farther south than BOLA, which mine usually did. I would count on doing some driving in the dark on the toll roads and through Ensenada, both coming and going. With that disappearing as an option, it's like adding a half day of driving and added o'night expenses to each trip. That's not desireable, for persons with a finite number of vacation days. Retirees and people with jobs that dont accrue paid vacations probably arent affected.

Gypsy Jan's comments are true enough. But I'm not sure her destination requires here to drive at night at all to get there. And her other precautions apply mostly to the Gauntlet, IMO.

[Edited on 1-10-2008 by Hook]

tripledigitken - 1-10-2008 at 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajadock
Non-scientific poll to be certain, but, with the pessimistic news and conversations lately, why 50% "no effect"?

Possibly those "no effect" folks have been crossing at Tecate and don't use the Toll Road. With the questions as presented they would fall in the "no effect" catagory.

Ken

OPEN MESSAGE TO THE BAD GUYS

ELINVESTIG8R - 1-10-2008 at 12:32 PM

This statement is aimed directly at you the “BAD GUY” on both sides of the border who offer violence to peace loving people which I am one. “I KNOW YOU BAD GUYS READ THIS SITE” so just know whether in the U.S. or Mexico and if you are stupid enough to offer violence to me personally I make you this solemn promise. I will use whatever force is necessary to neutralize you and the situation even if it causes your death or mine. One or both of us will not be going home. This vow goes for dirty cops and/or scumbags in general who confront me to do harm to me.
YOU DO NOT SCARE ME. Is this message clear enough? I hope so.

MENSAJE A LOS CRIMINALES

Esta declaración está dirigido directamente a usted, “EL CRIMINAL” en los dos lados de la frontera que ofrezcan violencia a la gente de paz quienes soy yo. “SÉ QUE USTDES CRIMINALES LEE ESTE SITIO” y quiero que saben que si aquí en los Estados Unidos (El Otro Lado) o en México si usted esta bastante estúpido de ofrecerme violencia a mi personalmente les hago esta promesa solemne. Utilizaré cualquier fuerza que es necesaria para neutralizarle a usted y la situación aunque ése causa su muerte o el mío. Uno de nosotros o los dos no hiramos a la casa ese día. Este juramento va a los policías corruptos y a los criminales en general quiénes me enfrentan para hacer daño a mí sin había hecho algo a usted. “USTEDES NO ME ASUSTAN” ¿Es este mensaje bastante claro? Espero que si.

[Edited on 1-11-2008 by ELINVESTI8]

rpleger - 1-10-2008 at 01:33 PM

I always did avoid the toll road at night.

I leave Newport Beach at 9am and arrive at El Rosaro that evening to stay the night at the Catus before driving to Mulegé the next morning.

No, no need to change my driving routine.

DENNIS - 1-10-2008 at 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rpleger
I always did avoid the toll road at night.

No, no need to change my driving routine.

Isn't that what it's all about? Staying off the roads at night?
Has any of this hijacking crap happened in broad daylite? I don't recall that it has.
I think some have been thoroughly terrorized by the recent events and well they should be but, it has grown to unrealistic proportions. The toll road is, or has been, safe from hijackers during daylite hours as far as I can recall. The forces of evil, being one and the same and different, have shared the hunting grounds. Hijackers at night...uniformed police during the day.
I don't see a large risk in day travel on the toll road. Travel in convoy to have your witnesses and don't pay mordida. Surround the police with cameras and microphones. It seems to have some effect.
Above all, if you break a law, you're guilty. If you didn't, you're not. Act accordingly.

bufeo - 1-10-2008 at 02:30 PM

I didn't vote, but to answer the question: Has recent border crime altered your trips to Baja?

No.

Hook - 1-10-2008 at 03:34 PM

Dennis, in the past before the hijackings, there was really no reason to avoid the toll road at night. No cattle, no potholes, generally and no oncoming traffic to swerve into your lane.

The toll road was a different story than driving the rest of the peninsula at night to me.

bajadedom - 1-10-2008 at 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTI8
This statement is aimed directly at you the “BAD GUY” on both sides of the border who offer violence to peace loving people which I am one. “I KNOW YOU BAD GUYS READ THIS SITE” so just know whether in the U.S. or Mexico and if you are stupid enough to offer violence to me personally I make you this solemn promise. I will use whatever force is necessary to neutralize you and the situation even if it causes your death or mine. One or both of us will not be going home. This vow goes for dirty cops and/or scumbags in general who confront me to do harm to me.
YOU DO NOT SCARE ME. Is this message clear enough? I hope so.

All worried about the trip south - get in touch w/El

bajalid - 1-10-2008 at 04:20 PM

:hi everyone,I just got back from poptla,had no trouble or fear and yes I will still drive to baja until I am a old lady! I have worked in the most chitty area of los angeles as a teleco tech and every day there is a shooting or a car hijacked dont get me wrong I use common sense and my street smarts
Driving down to cabo is a pleasure!
I am NOT SCARED

David K - 1-10-2008 at 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalid
:...I will still drive to baja until I am a old lady! I have worked in the most chitty area of los angeles...

You don't talk like a lady! :lol:

BajaDanD - 1-10-2008 at 06:52 PM

Lack of $$$$$$ has altered my trips to BAJA

DENNIS - 1-10-2008 at 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

You don't talk like a lady! :lol:

I think she does. A lady who commands respect. She has mine.

I know you were joking, David.

Al G - 1-10-2008 at 07:06 PM

Quote:

Well they do scare me...for the same reason you talk about.
I know for a fact if push comes to shove...I will not pay ever.
If I do something wrong...I will go in and pay to a judge. If they think they can make me roll over like Minnow...they don't know me and that is what scares me... :cool:

The Gull - 1-10-2008 at 08:40 PM

Quote:

Sounds like the common sense I use in my travels in Irvine.

Debra - 1-10-2008 at 09:15 PM

Dennis: In answer to your question "has any of this happened in daylight hours" I believe that Raquel (of "Raquel and Larry's) was murdered about 9:30am..........that was near Catavina

Ken Cooke - 1-10-2008 at 09:40 PM

Maybe it would make a difference if everyone traded in their nice vehicles and kept their expensive toy boxes at home. Go out and get a 1982 Toyota Corolla with missing hubcaps to show you REALLY DON'T HAVE A POT TO pee IN, and maybe this would make all of the difference.

Bajafun777 - 1-11-2008 at 01:07 AM

I still travel into Baja but do not get down through T.J. but only 3 or 4 times a year lately. I do travel into Mexicali almost once or twice every two weeks and have not had any problems. I know my way around Mexicali and think "yes" think I know some people that can help me if I were to get into a fix. I like others worry more about my wife or friends that may go down with me and if trouble came up their safety is not worth the stress. I do not know what type of reaction I would do if a gun was being put to my wife's head and mine like tomorrow will never happen again. Like some I have had experiences in some situations like this but as we get older our minds sometimes gets our bodies into trouble. We just do not move as fast or as balanced like we did when younger, yes the truth hurts. Make no doubt like a few said here, if bad dudes came after me I would do my best to get away. Further, I would do whatever I could do to prevent my wife and me being put to our knees and guns to our heads like no tomorrow for us, just a very bad thought to think about. Not even Baja is worth such a price. Later--------------------------- bajafun777

Pescador - 1-11-2008 at 08:10 AM

Just an idea, but what if Nomads were to start seriously carrying a camera and anytime they were stopped by the "police" they record the interaction on their camera? I know that will not work for a highjacking, but for the petty shake down routine of pay me now for your ticket, it might have an impact. Especially if those pictures were shared with the police captain and others.
The newest twist to the shakedown that I have heard twice now is they are saying yes you can go to the Justicia and see a judge, but we are going to call a tow-truck and impound your vehicle while we do that.

Natalie Ann - 1-11-2008 at 10:14 AM

I have always been a passenger when crossing the border. I have never felt comfortable driving in Baja at night. As I frequently travel alone and by bus, I have learned to be relaxed but vigilant to my personal safety.

I do not think this recent crime wave will change my trips to Baja... for I could not live without her.

Oh yeah, one exception... a couple of times I have crossed thanks to an excellent guide and friend, our own Fernando de Tijuana/fdt. I have recently received word that he is having qualms about the stretch of road between the San Diego airport and the border. If Ferna chickens out on me, I'll have to go back to begging rides from my son - and he is much more likely to be concerned about the crime. Might have to start walking across. :biggrin:

Nena

BajaBad - 1-11-2008 at 10:57 AM

My son and I have been planning a trip for five months or so now, to drive from TJ to Cabo, camping on the way, bringing a new quad or dune buggy for him (years of savings) me working taking photos & updating travel section of Viva La Baja! relocation guide.

Now there is no way I would camp with him, except on Conception Bay with other campers around and other places further south, and the trip maynow be delayed until next fall, when there - hopefully - is a better grasp of the situation by police, etc. If a ton more crime occurs, I would re-think the trip again, maybe flying into Loreto and avoiding Northern Baja altogether.

All in all, just peees me off. :barf:

I am not one who likes to be 'afraid' of an adventure. We got stuck a month and a half ago or so at the Tijuana airport for 12 hours, took the bus to the American (forgot name) shopping mall near-by for food and a movie. Returned to the airport at night, and was careful, but not afraid.

As a side-note (and do not know if this has been posted recently, I can not keep up with BajaNomad on a daily basis!) , can not see any travel warnings or safety alerts on any U.S. consulate or the travel.state.gov websites... Canada has not posted any new info, nor has NZ, Australia, etc. :no:

BajaBad
Viva La Baja! Relocation Guide
http://www.vivalabaja.com

Hook - 1-11-2008 at 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull

Quote:

Sounds like the common sense I use in my travels in Irvine.

Yeah, right, Gull. :rolleyes:

http://www.ci.irvine.ca.us/civica/press/display.asp?layout=1...

Nothing sadder than a caged bird, flailing about.

Facts aren't your strong suit, I take it............

fdt - 1-11-2008 at 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Natalie Ann
I have recently received word that he is having qualms about the stretch of road between the San Diego airport and the border. Nena

The most dangerous part of the entire trip

David K - 1-11-2008 at 11:16 AM

I-5 or I-805 ? Nothing on the news about any random pullovers of tourists by fake cops, or killing of police officers or police chiefs... What is so dangerous about the San Diego Airport to the Border...

If you can convince me it is safer to travel on 1-D than I-5, I will return to Baja in 7 days!

bajajudy - 1-11-2008 at 12:14 PM

DK
I think that Ferna and Nena are pulling your leg

GOTCHA

AND I STILL

GOT BAJA?

EDIT because I forgot to ask you if you would like for me to take over your vivabaja site until you can make it back?

[Edited on 1-11-2008 by bajajudy]

David K - 1-11-2008 at 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajajudy
DK
I think that Ferna and Nena are pulling your leg

GOTCHA

AND I STILL

GOT BAJA?

EDIT because I forgot to ask you if you would like for me to take over your vivabaja site until you can make it back?

[Edited on 1-11-2008 by bajajudy]

Well, when Nena and Ferna do fess up about the crime on San Diego's highways, I will drop my threat of a Baja trip!

Oh, what the hay... I can't stay away!!! Baja, here I come!!! :lol:

Judy, what do you want to do with my VivaBaja site?

Heck, I don't even mess with it... my web host won't let me access it until I actually know html. So, only he or Doug can make changes! Do you like the new homepage look? (I see that all of the Baja web sites hosted by electraweb are down today)

[Edited on 1-11-2008 by David K]

Natalie Ann - 1-11-2008 at 01:38 PM

No, David, I did not pull my reply. It's right back there where it always was. :rolleyes:

Nena

The Gull - 1-11-2008 at 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull

Quote:

Sounds like the common sense I use in my travels in Irvine.

Yeah, right, Gull. :rolleyes:

http://www.ci.irvine.ca.us/civica/press/display.asp?layout=1...

Nothing sadder than a caged bird, flailing about.

Facts aren't your strong suit, I take it............

Pathetic association on your end. I wasn't offering facts about Irvine, I already know it has more crime than Baja. Thanks for proving it. I said I took the same precautions in Irvine as were recommended in Baja. Reading is fundamental. You should try it some time.

David K - 1-11-2008 at 02:00 PM

Nena, you are right, I was thinking Ferna posted that 'news' about 'danger' on the U.S. side and you commented on it. It wasn't something that sounded like an American would say about San Diego. It was the other way around (I will edit my comment about you pulling the reply, as you haven't given me one yet!) LOL

I guess I am still waiting for you answer?

Quote:
Originally posted by Natalie Ann
I have recently received word that he is having qualms about the stretch of road between the San Diego airport and the border. Nena

Here again is what I asked :

I-5 or I-805 ? Nothing on the news about any random pullovers of tourists by fake cops, or killing of police officers or police chiefs... What is so dangerous about the San Diego Airport to the Border...

If you can convince me it is safer to travel on 1-D than I-5, I will return to Baja in 7 days

Natalie Ann - 1-11-2008 at 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajajudy
DK
I think that Ferna and Nena are pulling your leg

GOTCHA

AND I STILL

GOT BAJA?

EDIT because I forgot to ask you if you would like for me to take over your vivabaja site until you can make it back?

[Edited on 1-11-2008 by bajajudy]

and David, please stop going back and changing your posts.... please.

Nena

[Edited on 1-11-2008 by Natalie Ann]

David K - 1-11-2008 at 02:19 PM

Nena, please see my reply which explains... now about my question to you which remains unanswered...

Quote:
Originally posted by Natalie Ann
I have recently received word that he is having qualms about the stretch of road between the San Diego airport and the border. Nena

Here again is what I asked :

I-5 or I-805 ? Nothing on the news about any random pullovers of tourists by fake cops, or killing of police officers or police chiefs... What is so dangerous about the San Diego Airport to the Border...

If you can convince me it is safer to travel on 1-D than I-5, I will return to Baja in 7 days

David K - 1-11-2008 at 02:21 PM

By the way, your quote is from bajajudy, not me... I didn't 'change' anything other that to correct a mistake about you pulling a reply, you didn't... I agreed with you.

Natalie Ann - 1-11-2008 at 02:33 PM

ok, you win, I'm gonna quit pig wrestling.

I apologize for the hijack of this post through my careless sense of humor.

n

David K - 1-11-2008 at 02:36 PM

It was a joke? Oh, then Judy had it right, all along!! You did so well with making sound serious, too! FOOLED ME!!! :biggrin:

Good job Nena.. and Ferna too for agreeing with you (or your brother?) about the dangers NORTH of the border! :yes:

Have a great day... I am off to another appointment, bye!

fdt - 1-11-2008 at 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Nothing on the news about any random pullovers of tourists by fake cops, or killing of police officers or police chiefs...

No, nothing in the news about that. David, were did you hear news or mention about random pullovers of tourists and killings of police officers or chiefs on I-5 or 805? I waqs waiting for Hugo Torres in the news and they said nothing.

Hook - 1-11-2008 at 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull

Quote:

Sounds like the common sense I use in my travels in Irvine.

Yeah, right, Gull. :rolleyes:

http://www.ci.irvine.ca.us/civica/press/display.asp?layout=1...

Nothing sadder than a caged bird, flailing about.

Facts aren't your strong suit, I take it............

Gee, have Irvine property values dropped as much as your Gauntlet digs because of all the 'crime' in Irvine?

Are you seriously saying that Irvine is more dangerous than The Gauntlet? :lol:

Another failed attempt at logic

The Gull - 1-12-2008 at 10:24 AM

Hook,

It is simple, but it escapes you. Being personally safe in any environment is similar to lessons about safe driving. Being defensive does lower the risk. That's all my post dealt with.

It doesn't matter to you, but Irvine property values and those of much of South Orange County are dropping faster than Baja.

You can't understand it, I know, but it does have everything to do with lending in the US by people who will soon be prosecuted for criminal actions just like in the S&L and energy scams from recent history. Then again, you don't acknowledge crime in the US, do you?

What if this string dealt with a poll which said: "How many Americans living in Baja have changed their minds and want to return to the crime free and economically stable United States?" Fairy tale? Maybe.

Ken Cooke - 1-12-2008 at 12:16 PM

You guys want to see chaos? Try Colombia on for size! :lol:

bajalid - 1-12-2008 at 08:26 PM

funny david k !, remember david I was lineman for the phone company and the only female in the phone garage and ****** was not a bad word!
and I was driving down to cabo with my dad when I was a young girl even before the highway was built :biggrin:

[Edited on 1-13-2008 by Hose A]

Hook - 1-13-2008 at 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
Hook,

It is simple, but it escapes you. Being personally safe in any environment is similar to lessons about safe driving. Being defensive does lower the risk. That's all my post dealt with.

It doesn't matter to you, but Irvine property values and those of much of South Orange County are dropping faster than Baja.

You can't understand it, I know, but it does have everything to do with lending in the US by people who will soon be prosecuted for criminal actions just like in the S&L and energy scams from recent history. Then again, you don't acknowledge crime in the US, do you?

What if this string dealt with a poll which said: "How many Americans living in Baja have changed their minds and want to return to the crime free and economically stable United States?" Fairy tale? Maybe.

Thank you for this reply, Gull. It tells reams about you.

You wont have to worry about replys from me in the future.

"....there's a signpost up ahead............next stop........"

[Edited on 1-13-2008 by Hook]

jeans - 1-13-2008 at 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalid
funny david k !, remember david I was lineman for the phone company and the only female in the phone garage and ****** was not a bad word!

There were two women in our Mtn. Bell "phone garage". Wyoming...the Equality State.

The Gull - 1-13-2008 at 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

Quote:

Never did worry about responses from you. You take yourself too seriously. Others don't, so why should you, Mr. Serling?

bajadock - 1-13-2008 at 10:38 AM

Per my trip report this morning, I have not had a problem. 30+ trips from Ensenada to San Diego and back in '07 have been without incident. Why?
1. Free Road, 95% of time
2. '89 Jeep Cherokee "classic" is my rig.
3. I will happy hour in Rosarito and Ensenada, but usually get home by 9PM
4. Was stopped once for speeding on toll road, pulled over just south of last toll both in north "nada". FM-3 and conversation about my construction let me off with a warning.
5. I'm not covering up or minimizing problems. But, for wonderful vacations and a great living environment, Ensenada is perfect for me.

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