BajaNomad - THE UGLY AMERICAN? CANADIAN?

THE UGLY AMERICAN? CANADIAN?

dean miller - 1-22-2008 at 05:39 PM

THE UGLY AMERICAN?

There was a very popular best selling book printed in 1958 tilled "The Ugly American," by Lednerer and Burdick. It should be a required reading for any one visiting a foreign country

The rich good looking charming American Ambassador to the country is the villain. He is loud, arrogant , boastful and ignorant of the wants and needs of the small fictional SE Asian nation. He has an air of superiority and only considers the top social and economic strata of the nation as his equals. His policy and the American policy of that post Viet Nam era was to supply rice to a nation that was exporting rice, to build bridges where none was needed and super highways for ox carts

Surprising the "Ugly American," Homer Akins, is not the villain but rather the hero of the story. He is very crude short of stature, and not in any way attractive, but he listens and befriends the locals--he is known by them as the "Ugly American." He is aware that the nation does not need more rice, bridges over depressions and super highways. What is universally needed is a very low tech way to raise water from one rice paddy to another for irrigation. Homer and his native friend modify some discarded bicycles wheels and other items to create a pedal powered water lift.

This irritates the Ambassador so Homer is forced to leaves the US foreign service and establishes a company with his native friend manufacturing water lifts--He is the national hero the "Ugly American."

I would strongly suggest all who apply "Ugly Americans" or "Ugly Canadians" so freely reevaluate the term and it's almost pandemic misinterpretation and usage

I would also strongly suggest that all from the US and Canada who frequently travel abroad and especially to Baja obtain a copy and read "The Ugly American"

bajadock - 1-22-2008 at 06:34 PM

Thanks, Dean,
I have used the term without care for its origin. Good news is that the incorrect application has brought about education. When visiting another country, understanding your role as "guest" helps everyone.

Thanks for the lesson this evening.

Skeet/Loreto - 1-22-2008 at 07:25 PM

Very Good Dean!

Yes there are ugly Americans and Canadians> And Alos other Countries and even States.

Being in Texas I am often reminded that those "Ugly Californians"" are moving in and will use all of our Water!
Ugly Texas going elsewhere and doing Rodeos and being Cruel to /Animals!

If California and Hollywood have the msot Mental, Physical and Degerante People ,then Amarillo Texas has the most "Unforgiving, Uneducated, and Narrow-minded People" in Texas

The Book is a very Good book. Good Advice.

Skeet/Loreto.

CaboRon - 1-22-2008 at 08:57 PM

Thanks Dean,

I really have to go back and give it another read.

CaboRon

dean miller - 1-23-2008 at 05:57 AM

300 people on this forum visted the post and one would assume read the post..

3 responded..

1%

Warms the heart..
sdm

jorgie - 1-23-2008 at 06:48 AM

it was 'pre' vietnam.....and a very good book

Skipjack Joe - 1-23-2008 at 07:13 AM

All right, I'll respond. Two things come to mind.

A. As I read your post it reminds me of British behavior for the last 200 years. Britain ruled the waves and treated it's empire pretty contemptuously. For every Dr. Livingstone and Sir Richard Burton there were tens of thousands of Spekes. One only needs only to look at Attenborough's "Gandhi" or Lean's "Lawrence of Arabia" to see that the Ugly American existed long before us.

B. That book was written in the 50's when the US was at the height of it's power. An economic giant that came out of WWII unscathed while the rest of the world lay in ruins. Even the winners ended up being losers as England lost virtually all it's colonies after that. We are no longer in that position and some of the swagger and arrogance is gone as a result. Also, we are more well traveled now, more worldly, and ethnocentricity is less prominent. The fact that most Americans are now a mixture of cultures probably also has something to do with it. A very small percentage of Americans traveled abroad before and in the 50's and I think it showed in their behavior when they started to do so. So I don't think that book is as relevant as it used to be (although there are tons of examples you still see every day).

It's a big subject and those are my two cents.

DENNIS - 1-23-2008 at 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dean miller
300 people on this forum visted the post and one would assume read the post..

3 responded..

1%

Warms the heart..
sdm

Without doing anything that would remind one of a scientific study, I've noticed that a thread of luke-warm nature will have around twenty times the hits as replies. Those with more hits have a hotter topic or have an enticing subject, such as this thread. It's like setting the hook with the first sentence of a story.
Just my observation

Hook - 1-23-2008 at 11:11 AM

There are numerous instances in the histories of all languages where a misconception leads to a technically incorrect interpretation of a word..........but the misconception sticks.

Are you really asking the world to discard the now conventional meaning of the term Ugly American?

It works pretty well, at times...................

capn.sharky - 1-23-2008 at 11:23 AM

Skeet--Shame on you for lumping all Californian's as Ugly Californians. We Californians have the same right to move to Texas, Oregon, Washington or anywhere we like---just as you do. I suppose you would think all New Yorkers are Ugly Americans too. But, every state has both good and bad people in it. I don't think the orgin of a person makes him or her ugly. It more a matter of how one behaves when going elsewhere. Be it Mexico or Europe or wherever one should try to blend in as best a possible. You moved recently back to Texas from Baja. You were a good person in Mexico and fit in well with the locals. But, I have seen Texans act ugly in Baja. Drunk and loud at dinner. Recently National Geographic wrote badly about North Dakota. The citizens of North Dakota took exception to the article and it made the national news. Its the person and not the State that makes a person good or bad. Not all Canadians are bad---at least 20% are good people. :lol:

DENNIS - 1-23-2008 at 12:14 PM

Some....I say some.....Canadians should read the booklet, "How to use a trash can" before coming to Mexico. They have earned a bad reputation for themselves here and more so down on the mainland for this reason.
I lived in Maine for a couple of years and it was the same way there. When Canadians would come south out of Quebec and vacation in the small towns along the coast, they would trash the cities. I doubt if they do that at home.

OK....I'm slipping into my body armor now so, fire away.

bajalera - 1-23-2008 at 04:33 PM

Yeah, the Ugly American was the nice guy in the book, but the term has been misapplied for so long that the change of meaning has become standard.

An alternative that's popular on this board is A-hole.

Oso - 1-23-2008 at 04:41 PM

Yep, language will do what language wants. The term now joins normalcy, irregardless, hopefully and "I could care less" as having entered common usage by error but are now entrenched. The term will mean a boorish, obnoxious, arrogant, loud-mouthed American abroad for the foreseeable future.

The jury's still out on GWB's "untruthiness".

CaboRon - 1-23-2008 at 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oso
Yep, language will do what language wants. The term now joins normalcy, irregardless, hopefully and "I could care less" as having entered common usage by error but are now entrenched. The term will mean a boorish, obnoxious, arrogant, loud-mouthed American abroad for the foreseeable future.

The jury's still out on GWB's "untruthiness".

Yes, I thought in the movie "The Ugly American" that the ambassador was the ugly one ..... but thirty or fourty years can really erode memories :lol:

CaboRon

I thought the jury had returned a verdict on GWB and he is guilty as heck.

Barry A. - 1-23-2008 at 04:53 PM

A jury of loons does not count!!!

barry

Oso - 1-23-2008 at 05:01 PM

Just a historical footnote: "Normalcy" (instead of the correct normality) comes from Warren G. Harding, prior to GWB considered a prime contender for title of "Worst".

Cap - 1-23-2008 at 05:02 PM

Is it possible that the author was pointing out through irony that beauty is in how one conducts himself and not exclusive to appearance?

Another common mistake in language is the mispronunciation of Forte, correctly pronounced it has no accent, and refers to the base (or strongest part) of a sword.
Just thought it was interesting.

Oso - 1-23-2008 at 05:10 PM

Ah etymology! One of my favorite trivial pursuits. Did you know that "bigot" originally meant "one who does not share a common prejudice? It came from a Norman noble instructed,as a symbol of vassaldom, to kiss the foot of Charles The Simple, King of France. The old viking roared "Ne se, bi got!" (Not me, by god).

bajadock - 1-23-2008 at 07:22 PM

My OH CANADA friends NEVER throw away their Labatt Blue. They get too much income from recycling. :saint:

BMG - 1-23-2008 at 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oso

The term now joins normalcy, irregardless, hopefully and "I could care less" as having entered common usage by error but are now entrenched.

I appreciate the lessons I've learned on this thread.

Hopefully :lol:

I can remember them even with my CRS problem. I never realized until now that according to some that I have not been using hopefully correctly.

"According to traditionalists, hopefully means in a hopeful way, not I hope."

bajaguy - 1-23-2008 at 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oso

The term now joins normalcy, irregardless, hopefully and "I could care less" as having entered common usage by error but are now entrenched.

Add "basically" and "like"

bajalera - 1-24-2008 at 01:40 PM

Have you noticed that the word "use" is fast becoming obsolete, being displaced by "utilize"? I even heard a sportcaster say that a football team was utilizing a pass strategy to its advantage--that's going too dang far..

Pompano - 1-24-2008 at 02:38 PM

Word evolutions....Would you care to 'opine' on that further?...Now who always says that?...... :lol:

CaboRon - 1-24-2008 at 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalera
Have you noticed that the word "use" is fast becoming obsolete, being displaced by "utilize"? I even heard a sportcaster say that a football team was utilizing a pass strategy to its advantage--that's going too dang far..

Bajalara,

I believe it comes from military usage :lol:

CaboRon

ElFaro - 1-24-2008 at 03:12 PM

Please, Please…

Let us "Eschew Obfuscation" in this thread!!

Uh? :?:

gibson - 1-24-2008 at 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
Word evolutions....Would you care to 'opine' on that further?...Now who always says that?...... :lol:

the ugliest of 'mericans!! (if indeed ur referring to faux news)

The Gull - 1-24-2008 at 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
A jury of loons does not count!!!

barry

Wrong! It does on this board.

bancoduo - 1-24-2008 at 03:41 PM

"mericans"? Thats Texas pigeon english.

vgabndo - 1-24-2008 at 03:54 PM

Listen to people speaking nearby. How often do you hear the "t" pronounced in often (not my original subject) or the use of a word that must be spelled IGGZAKKLEE. There is a rarely used word in our idiom which is pronounced:
EX ACT LEE. This error is practiced most commonly, it seems, by the people who are earning huge dollars talking for a living on TV.

Skipjack Joe - 1-24-2008 at 04:52 PM

Vgabndo, you just may have to report us all to professor Higgins.

myfairlady32grayscale.jpg - 46kB

bufeo - 1-24-2008 at 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dean miller
300 people on this forum visted the post and one would assume read the post..

3 responded..

1%

Warms the heart..
sdm

I thought you were just reviewing a book, ergo no need for a reply since there was no question.

A good novel, UA, not a classic, but it did have some influence in the late 1950s. I think that Burdick and Lederer collaborated on three or four novels of which Fail Safe is probably the most notable. In any case when I read your post and therefore became one of the ‘views’ I saw no reason to add a rejoinder—in much the same way I do with most posts on the forums I peruse. Sort of like reading a newspaper, or, in some cases, a tabloid.

Ahhhh, but I returned to see what all the subsequent posts were about and came across one that did intrigue me.

Since I, too, indulge in that rather esoteric trivial pastime of tracing the linguistic ancestry of obscure words (especially those of the English and French languages), Oso’s post caught my eye immediately.

At the risk of being accused of taking a thread off-topic, I will confess to that egregious infraction up front. Guilty as charged.

Quote:

Originally posted by Oso
Ah etymology! One of my favorite trivial pursuits. Did you know that "bigot" originally meant "one who does not share a common prejudice? It came from a Norman noble instructed,as a symbol of vassaldom, to kiss the foot of Charles The Simple, King of France. The old viking roared "Ne se, bi got!" (Not me, by god).

Oso, I’ve seen that reference to the origin of bigot before, but I choose to follow the words of the esteemed scholars of the OED. They seem to think that Wace’s rather entertaining description of the Norman pirate Rollo’s reply to a command to kiss the foot of Charles III (the “Simple”) as being “…absurdly incongruous with facts.” Perhaps since Rollo was Simple Chuck’s son-in-law there may have been a command to perform that rather obsequious act, and Rollo’s reputation would most certainly lead one to think that he could have uttered such a phrase, but history leads one in another linguistic direction.

The fact that Wace of Jersey, the 12th century poet to whom this bit of trivia is attributed, had already used the word bigot as a reference to Normans in a former work seems to have slipped the poet’s mind when he formed the above conclusion in Roman de Rou. Wace’s legend also ignores the fact that the term appeared in an earlier chanson de geste in a reference to Charles Martel (the “Hammer”) when he absconded with the wife of Girard de Roussillon.

Under the circumstances and with all due respect I think I’ll continue to hold that the precise origin of the word bigot is lost in obscurity.

Oso, so as not to derail this thread too much, I’ll check my U2U box occasionally and see if you have other ideas.

[Edited on 1-25-2008 by bufeo]

Oso - 1-24-2008 at 05:23 PM

Nah, I'll just stand corrected in the face of superior extensive research. :lol:

Roberto - 1-24-2008 at 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Some....I say some.....Canadians should read the booklet, "How to use a trash can" before coming to Mexico. They have earned a bad reputation for themselves here and more so down on the mainland for this reason.

The reputation I know is of being cheapskates in general and poor tippers in particular.

gibson - 1-24-2008 at 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

Quote:

The reputation I know is of being cheapskates in general and poor tippers in particular.

last time I was in Canada tipping wasn't part of the culture which would render your comment nothing short of pathetic.

Roberto - 1-24-2008 at 07:04 PM

Well, maybe - but it ain't my comment buddy, but that of the Mexicanos whose country visit. :wow:

I don't work for tips, so it don't mean diddly to me.

[Edited on 1-25-2008 by Roberto]

Great Scott! This is getting ugly..

Pompano - 1-25-2008 at 07:16 AM

Another thread hijacked..and now, more of that insanity.

Pagophobia brought many nomadic types to Baja. Oxyacanthous! shouted Nomads, describing the Baja countryside...while many Macrologists were evident in thier company. Heeding AlGore's warnings about global warming, many Paralian Baja dwellers became alarmed. Soon, Agenhinas in Baja became commonplace and a welcome status amongst Nomads. Unfortunately, Narcokleptocracy would soon make for endless Nomad posts. Now, certain rumblings are felt..but not the ones in Asuncion...rather Opsophagy, which is a Baja passion, too.

By the way, the expression Great Scott!....an exclamation of surprise or amazement...came from one of America's most admired soldiers of the 19th Century, General Winfield Scott. I believe there was a certain 'ugly' war going on...

Sharksbaja - 1-25-2008 at 09:44 AM

I like to ~~use~~ utilize Lucys' exclamation "Good Grief" and this thread is well suited for such.

Quote:

The reputation I know is of being cheapskates in general and poor tippers in particular

Eh???

Oso - 1-25-2008 at 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

The reputation I know is of being cheapskates in general and poor tippers in particular.

True enough, but they're very polite about it. :lol:

dean miller - 1-25-2008 at 10:48 AM

CANADIAN SHOPPING --BOXING DAY

I recall some years ago -possibly 15 or more when the US dollar was very strong and the Canadian dollar weak some where around 60 cents Canadian to American dollar.

It was winter --I was visiting friends in Toronto, Canada I had arrived in SoCal warm clothes, hardly adequate for the Canadian winter but I made do until Boxing day - the day after Christmas when all stores have supper sales every thing related to winter is on sale at a greatly reduced price.

I purchased a tan "Canadian Duffel Coat" and immediately placed it on my cold California body-- and did it feel great!

I was standing out side a woman's clothing store waiting for my wife who was inside also taking advantage of the Boxing sale, when a Canadian gentleman joined me as is often the case when the lady folks are shopping.

Assuming I was a 100% Canadian who was wearing the national coat turned to me and stated "Those darn Americans look at the trash all around the mall." I noticed boxes, bags and all sorts of shopping debris and even people discarding their old clothes and putting on new recently purchased Canadian items. All I could safely respond under the circumstances was "Eh?" and lucky for me my wife arrived at that very moment and with out uttering anthing we departed poste haste.

That evening on Canadian news there was a snippet displaying the route to the border littered with discard boxes, bags, old clothes, etc.

The trash was blamed on Americans from upstate New York who came to Toronto, purchased items, put them on and discarded the old items along with the boxes along the route. The next morning TV news had more of the same as well as an article in the local news paper about the trash discarded by the Americans who had taken advantage of the bargains on Boxing day.

So it goes both ways... and now the Canadian dollar is worth more than the American dollar. One would question that if some time in the future the Canadians will be traveling south to Buffalo and trashing American roads on the return trip?

sdm

DianaT - 1-25-2008 at 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dean miller
CANADIAN SHOPPING --BOXING DAY

I recall some years ago -possibly 15 or more when the US dollar was very strong and the Canadian dollar weak some where around 60 cents Canadian to American dollar.

It was winter --I was visiting friends in Toronto, Canada I had arrived in SoCal warm clothes, hardly adequate for the Canadian winter but I made do until Boxing day - the day after Christmas when all stores have supper sales every thing related to winter is on sale at a greatly reduced price.

I purchased a tan "Canadian Duffel Coat" and immediately placed it on my cold California body-- and did it feel great!

I was standing out side a woman's clothing store waiting for my wife who was inside also taking advantage of the Boxing sale, when a Canadian gentleman joined me as is often the case when the lady folks are shopping.

Assuming I was a 100% Canadian who was wearing the national coat turned to me and stated "Those darn Americans look at the trash all around the mall." I noticed boxes, bags and all sorts of shopping debris and even people discarding their old clothes and putting on new recently purchased Canadian items. All I could safely respond under the circumstances was "Eh?" and lucky for me my wife arrived at that very moment and with out uttering anthing we departed poste haste.

That evening on Canadian news there was a snippet displaying the route to the border littered with discard boxes, bags, old clothes, etc.

The trash was blamed on Americans from upstate New York who came to Toronto, purchased items, put them on and discarded the old items along with the boxes along the route. The next morning TV news had more of the same as well as an article in the local news paper about the trash discarded by the Americans who had taken advantage of the bargains on Boxing day.

So it goes both ways... and now the Canadian dollar is worth more than the American dollar. One would question that if some time in the future the Canadians will be traveling south to Buffalo and trashing American roads on the return trip?

sdm

Sounds like what our Home Depot in Imperial Beach looks like all the time---same with the closest Wal-Marts and Costcos----people from south of the border---guess maybe trash can one of those situational situations.

bajalera - 1-25-2008 at 04:11 PM

My son Steve and a Mexican friend were gabbing in front of our neighborhood tienda when a guy whose nationality wasn't obvious came walking down the street. As he passed by, he looped a paper bag at the trash can outside the tienda, missed, and came back to pick it up.

Steve's friend said, "I couldn't tell whether that was an American or a Mexican, but when he stopped to put the trash in the can, I knew he wasn't Mexican."

CaboRon - 1-25-2008 at 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalera
My son Steve and a Mexican friend were gabbing in front of our neighborhood tienda when a guy whose nationality wasn't obvious came walking down the street. As he passed by, he looped a paper bag at the trash can outside the tienda, missed, and came back to pick it up.

Steve's friend said, "I couldn't tell whether that was an American or a Mexican, but when he stopped to put the trash in the can, I knew he wasn't Mexican."

dean miller - 1-25-2008 at 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

Quote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Not the same!

In Canada the Americans littered the malls, the parking lots and the route to the border with boxes, bags and old used clothes..They wore the new clothes back to US evidently in order to avoid customs or ???

It was not a pretty sight...And it was very clear where the trash came from.

sdm

Paulina - 1-25-2008 at 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

Sounds like what our Home Depot in Imperial Beach looks like all the time---same with the closest Wal-Marts and Costcos----people from south of the border---guess maybe trash can one of those situational situations.

I agree wtih you. Sounds the same to me too.

P<*)))><

DianaT - 1-25-2008 at 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dean miller

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter

Quote:

Yea, it is probably quite different. At the stores that I mentioned, the shopping from below the border is a daily affair---often there are more baja license plates in the parking lots than US plates. It is interesting to watch them unpackage everything in the parking lots---easier to get past customs. Often, a good deal of the packing does not make it to the trash cans.

It is also common at some of the clothing shopping malls, especially the Las Americas plaza by the border----same thing, don't want the items to appear just bought.

But, we don't see it on the freeways. It seems that these trash problems are a result of custom limits, and higher prices on one side of a border---doesn't seem to matter which border.

Sorry I seemed to offend you by implying it might be the "same". No two situations are ever exactly the same. Besides, as one Home Depot employee told us, it keeps him employed.

Trust, me I will try very much to not offend you in the future---seems far too easy.

Diane

Touche'

Sharksbaja - 1-25-2008 at 07:29 PM

We all lose in the long run. Reason: All that gall-damn friggin'wasteful packaging. What doesn't end up as the bambinos toys made in China ends up in landfills, streets and sidewalks.
You say the litterbugs hail from the NE USA, I say they are the same genre of slobs that litter anywhere. It most certainly is a mindset. If you say they haven't evolved enuff to dispose of properly I say they all have the same missing gene. What else could it be, certainly not a matter of aesthetics.
A shame Wal-Mart and other big ilks don't promote a cleaner environment. Think of the chiit that originates from these mega-corps. What responsibility do they hold in this category.?? Any??
I hear Wholefoods is abandoning plastic bags. This is a step in the right direction.

btw, Western Canada has got to have the cleanest environment in the Northern Hemisphere from what I've seen in my travels.
Point in fact: it's always nice to drive in beautiful places that lack the roadside debris and many times a year these places are swept clean by volunteers, citizens or troublemakers.
A clean environment helps promote same through example. Of course I actually think some idiots enjoy littering.
So what exactly is it? Must be the genes. At least you'd have an excuse. :rolleyes:

[Edited to add Ugly Norte Americanos on 1-26-2008 by Sharksbaja]

[Edited on 1-26-2008 by Sharksbaja]

dean miller - 1-26-2008 at 03:01 AM

No it is not the boxes, the paper..

It is the maturity, pride and early childhood training of the individual who disposes of the boxes, paper etc.

It crosses all socio-economic lines..

sdm

CaboRon - 1-27-2008 at 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
We all lose in the long run. Reason: All that gall-damn friggin'wasteful packaging. What doesn't end up as the bambinos toys made in China ends up in landfills, streets and sidewalks.
You say the litterbugs hail from the NE USA, I say they are the same genre of slobs that litter anywhere. It most certainly is a mindset. If you say they haven't evolved enuff to dispose of properly I say they all have the same missing gene. What else could it be, certainly not a matter of aesthetics.
A shame Wal-Mart and other big ilks don't promote a cleaner environment. Think of the chiit that originates from these mega-corps. What responsibility do they hold in this category.?? Any??
I hear Wholefoods is abandoning plastic bags. This is a step in the right direction.

btw, Western Canada has got to have the cleanest environment in the Northern Hemisphere from what I've seen in my travels.
Point in fact: it's always nice to drive in beautiful places that lack the roadside debris and many times a year these places are swept clean by volunteers, citizens or troublemakers.
A clean environment helps promote same through example. Of course I actually think some idiots enjoy littering.
So what exactly is it? Must be the genes. At least you'd have an excuse. :rolleyes:

[Edited to add Ugly Norte Americanos on 1-26-2008 by Sharksbaja]

[Edited on 1-26-2008 by Sharksbaja]

Part of could be that there just aren't many people living in Western Canada...... and I believe more than half the population of BC live in Vancouver.

Although I do agree, it is one of the most beautiful places on our planet.

CaboRon

Oso - 1-27-2008 at 09:07 AM

I've only been to Vancouver once, for a day, but I'll have to say that what I saw of it was one of the cleanest cities I've ever seen anywhere. Guadalajara used to be known as "La Ciudad Blanca", noted for its cleanliness (in contrast to?) but I haven't been there in many years so I'm not sure now.

Q. How does a Canadian celebrity get the paparazzi off his lawn?

A. He says "Please get off my lawn."

Oh yeah, sure...those Ugly Canadians again..

Pompano - 1-27-2008 at 10:55 AM

They sure don't act like this in Mexico City or Washington.

This actually happened in 2004 on Canadian national television.

Prime Minister Paul Martin swore on live television yesterday, apparently frustrated with the progress of a meeting with the provincial ministers over the future of Canada's straining health care system.

During a break in the proceedings, Martin's aunt telephoned him and threatened to wash his mouth out with soap for using the Lord's name in vain.

When the meeting resumed, Martin apologized to the nation.
-

Furthermore...Canadians are so polite they apologize to the ATM machines.

Then there is this old favorite like Oso's...

Q. How do you get 500 Canadians out of a swimming pool?

A. "Hey everyone! It's time to get out of the swimming pool."

A. Say it again in Quebecois.

Skipjack Joe - 1-27-2008 at 11:45 AM

Well the Quebecois weren't very well mannered when I needed some help.

Prior to asking driving directions I asked one if he could speak english.

His answer? "Do you speak french?"

Pompano - 1-27-2008 at 12:04 PM

That 'Quebec' attitude is very common, Igor...and is typical of what has to some extent polarized Canada from east to west. The provinces which we frequent the most..Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, Yukon-Northwest Territories, British Columbia, and a smidgeon of Nanavut...are just barely tolerant of the remote eastern government...and do not like having bilingualism and other edicts shoved down their throats. This is the rhetoric we hear from most of our Canadian hosts and friends.

Reminds me of almost every other nation on earth that contains multi-national groups.

I do know 'a place' in North America that has NO UGLY AMERICANS..NO UGLY MEXICANS..AND NO UGLY CANADIANS...but I am sworn to secrecy.

bajalera - 1-27-2008 at 03:14 PM

No need to share, Pompano Who could feel at home there?

Sharksbaja - 1-27-2008 at 03:48 PM

My brother made the mistake of marrying a Quebecois. I have never met someone who would cheat at EVERY game she played. One time in TJ she had their 3 yr old daughter steal a ring for her and thought it was cute.
I spent a summer there and was amazed at their rudeness. The awesome Chateau Frontenac in Quebec City where they got married was the first place I stayed. The hamburger I had actually made me gag.
There is absolutely no connection with western Canada I can think of. Two different worlds. I would never go back.

Skipjack Joe - 1-27-2008 at 06:24 PM

Roger, have you ever heard of the lakes 'Chibougamous' or something like that? Beautiful country of the sort you like. I wanted to catch northern pike in the worst of way and it was on this trip that my episode took place.

That was about 30 years ago now. As sharksbaja says Quebec City has to be one of the most impressive cities in north america. An old fort. The roofs of some building were bronzed and had that tourquoise blue color caused by oxidation (like those at Stockholm).

During my travels I remember reading a sign, 'Poule a la Kentaqui', and laughed when I realized it was actually Kentucky Fried Chicken.

I got to like the Quebequois and learned to appreciate their pride in their heritage. If everybody compromises just a bit we can all get along.

Sharksbaja - 1-27-2008 at 11:25 PM

Yep, stayed at the fort overlooking the St. Lawrence River. Very strange experience.

You must be thinking of Chicoutimi. Northeast of Quebec City It is beautiful there and the people were much nicer. My bro(god rest his soul) had a computer school up there and I was amazed at how different just a hundred miles or so from Quebec how well received I was. I would go back there possibly.
Did you know that back in the 70s that horsemeat was a regular foodstuff in the province. I also heard that carion was another useful resource. Like I said , the food sucked. That was when I became a food snob. :lol:

Packoderm - 1-27-2008 at 11:39 PM

I wish you could have given us a teaser about the novel The Ugly American without giving away the ending - that is if you did give it away. I'll have to research and maybe get the book. Maybe it's at the library.

dean miller - 1-28-2008 at 06:57 AM

Well know you know...

I would suspect that "The Ugly American" is no longer in most libraries do to its age and and probably lack of interest.

Would suggest one of the on line used book companies. Since at the time of publication it was a very popular book there are probably a large number avaliable at a very reasonable price in either hard back or soft cover.

Good Luck,

SAM