BajaNomad - Coilover or lift kit?

Coilover or lift kit?

TonyC - 3-20-2008 at 06:26 PM

I've have a 06 Tundra 4WD 4 door. I want to add at least a 3" lift in the front. Go from my 16" rims to a 17", 30" tires to 33". I want to level, change the look, and improve the ride...both off road and highway.

I'm thinking of putting in Camburg coilovers with UCAs, or should I just go with a lift kit? Are there anything else I should consider....tires size, bigger rims? I don't want to spent more than $5K. Can I fit a intake/exhaust system in this budget?

I've seen trucks with 6-9" lifts, and that a bit much for me. I tow a boat with this truck if that matters.

mtgoat666 - 3-20-2008 at 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TonyC
I want to level, change the look, and improve the ride...both off road and highway.

lifts rarely make highway ride better, certainly not safer.

Gadget - 3-20-2008 at 07:49 PM

Check out Total Chaos Fabrication. Nicole and Matt specialize in Toyota suspension systems. http://www.chaosfab.com/

Ken Cooke - 3-20-2008 at 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gadget
Check out Total Chaos Fabrication. Nicole and Matt specialize in Toyota suspension systems. http://www.chaosfab.com/

If you went with a 4.5" suspension lift, you'd have all of the lift you'd need, plus a nice, level stance. 6 inches would be taller than you would need, IMO. Look at the amount of suspension travel afforded by the A-arms, ball joints, and suppleness of the rear leaf suspension. A nice soft-riding set of shock absorbers also help.

A 33" tire is a good size for Baja. Not too tall, not too small. I have a friend running 40" IROKs, but this is overkill for towing and simple routes through the backcountry. A 33" tire will be just right...since you're probably running a 32" tire at the moment?

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

285/70-17 *1-New! Nitto Dune Grappler Tire*285/70R-17
$186.76
2-Day Parts, LLC

Nitto Press Releases:
Desert Terrain Light Truck Radial

Nitto Tire North America, Inc. introduces the new Dune Grappler Desert Terrain tire, an exciting addition to Nitto's popular Grappler series. The Dune Grappler satisfies the enthusiast who wants an aggressive tread for off road capabilities, while providing a more comfortable and quieter ride on the road. By utilizing advanced computer simulation technology, the Dune Grappler's tread block arrangement reduces high levels of noise commonly associated with aggressive tires, while still providing a traction-oriented tread for off road use.

The new Dune Grappler Desert Terrain tire will be offered in higher load range ratings of ‘D’ and ‘E' in certain sizes. These higher load ratings make the Nitto Dune Grappler Desert Terrain capable for use with heavyweight trucks, such as Ford Super Duty and GM Heavy Duty, as well as other large and mid-sized trucks on the road today. "LT" sizes will be available with a 3-ply sidewall construction for increased puncture resistance.

Nitto Dune Grappler All Terrain tires will also feature Nitto's "Bead Block" technology, a rim protector feature designed to offer increased protection to your valuable wheels. The Dune Grappler will be available from 15- to 22-inch wheel sizes, with additional sizes becoming available later this year.

Nitto Tire Introduces the New Dune Grappler Desert Terrain Tire

Nitto Tire introduces the new Dune Grappler Desert Terrain tire, an exciting addition to Nitto's popular Grappler series. The Dune Grappler satisfies the enthusiast who wants an aggressive tread for off-road capabilities, while providing a more comfortable and quieter ride on the road. By utilizing advanced computer simulation technology, the tread block arrangement reduces high levels of noise commonly associated with aggressive tires, while still providing a traction-oriented tread for off-road use. The Nitto Dune Grappler will be offered with a three-ply sidewall construction for increased puncture resistance in certain popular sizes.

Features:

M&S-rated for all season performance
3 ply polyester high turn up construction improves bruise and puncture resistance and increases sidewall strength and durability*
Intermediate void-ratio for optimal performance in loose gravel and sandy terrains
Flare “taper and bridge” design reduces flex for longer tread life along with better traction and steering on and off road
Innovative design allows for tread and shoulder integration, ensuring a flatter, wider contact patch optimal for on and off road performance.
Side lugs provide puncture resistance and off-road traction
Flare “taper and bridge” design reduces flex for longer tread life along with better traction and steering on and off-road
Sound absorbing blocks and a balanced void ratio provides offroad traction while reducing road noise
“Bead Block” technology gives added protection to your valuable wheels

*Compared to Terra Grappler. Only available in LT sizes.

Sizes:

LT31X10.50R15 C
LT33X12.50R15 C
LT285/75R16 E
LT305/70R16 E
LT315/75R16 E
LT285/70R17 E
LT315/70R17 D
285/60R18
LT285/65R18 E
LT285/55R20 E
305/40R22

The Dune Grappler became available at the end of the third quarter in 2006.

[Edited on 3-21-2008 by Ken Cooke]

Ken Cooke - 3-20-2008 at 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by TonyC
I want to level, change the look, and improve the ride...both off road and highway.

lifts rarely make highway ride better, certainly not safer.

This guy has not heard of Airock by OffRoadOnly... :?:

You can hit the airbag switches to LOWER the vehicle and COG for on-road safety, and you can hit the switches to LIFT the vehicle and COG for off-road excitement!!! oH YeaH! :bounce:

Them's some big smiles, Mtn. Goat!! Hahaha!! :fire:

Taco de Baja - 3-21-2008 at 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

lifts rarely make highway ride better, certainly not safer.

Might be true for a redneck hockey-puck spacer lift, or an “add-a-leaf” but not true with a modern engineered lift.
My 1996 Tacoma's ride was night to day better than factory, with a Downey 3.5 lift.

Sure it's "more unsafe", but it's a TRUCK. The idiots who flip their Exploders were probably driving like their vehicle was a low riding Porsche, BWM…

Back on topic, I have heard nothing but good things about Camburgs. Do go with new springs in the rear designed for the lift height you want, or maybe an 1” more if you haul a lot of weight. Spacers in the rear can put a lot of strain on things, and add-a-leafs, like Mr. Goat, said will make your ride worse (stiffer).

One word of caution, do not go above 3" of lift in the front without a front differential drop. Your Front CV joints will thank you. If Toyota had not chosen to do away with the manual locking hubs (bad idea in my book), this would not be a problem.

Ken Cooke - 3-21-2008 at 11:59 AM

That Mtn.Goat guy is very leery of anything that has to deal with off-road performance. He thinks people should stay off of trails that are infrequently used, etc. I've read his posts, and I wonder why he bothers with the Off-Road section of this board since he is against Off Road.

As for my vehicle's specific application, I'm purchasing some new control arms (upper and lower) which are said to produce a more sports car-inspired ride with better control, stiffer steering input feel, and **better** suspension articulation.

Also, as you go 1 inch up in the air, you go 2 inches out. That is why vehicles appear so much wider, because they are in order to counteract the effects of the higher COG (Center of Gravity). Something Mtn Goat 666 probably knows very little about.

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco de Baja

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

lifts rarely make highway ride better, certainly not safer.

Taco de Baja - 3-21-2008 at 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whistler
Ken, not sure what you mean. Please explain

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke

Also, as you go 1 inch up in the air, you go 2 inches out.

I too am confused....By that logic, shouldn’t these tires be 120 inches out :?:

I'm sure you mean in a well designed lift, the wheel offset should go out that amount....but that puts its own strain on things

Ill bet this lift does ride a lot worse then stock...if you can even get in the damn thing. Got to love Riverside County, California :lol:

TonyC - 3-21-2008 at 01:48 PM

Thanks for all the inputs. I know what I need to do, and what to stay away from. Thanks again.

Pic of 7 and 9" lifts, my truck is the white Tundra hard to see. Truck in the foreground has a leveling kit only. The coilovers should give me what I want.

Ken Cooke - 3-21-2008 at 04:25 PM

In order to offset your higher COG, as you lift your COG 1", you need to widen your stance 2".

Wheels:

Your stock wheels typically have a 5" offset. If you change this to 3.5" on each side, you have just widened your stance by 3 inches.

Tires:

Your OEM tires are probably narrow, 10 inch wide tires. As you change to 12.5" width (affecting your MPG & aerodynamics negatively), you are able to widen your stance another 5 inches.

Just changing your tires & wheels, you have added 8 total inches of track width, allowing you to safely add 4 inches of suspension height without seriously affecting your driveability on the highways. Just keep in mind, with a grippy mud-terrain tire, you will be more prone to accidents because you will now have a tire that will grip asphalt a whole lot better, with a much lower duronometer reading (i.e. - Grippier) than with a street-biased tire with a much higher duronometer reading.

If you adjust your driving, you won't be in any serious harm. I have driven lifted vehicles since 1997, and I haven't had a single accident behind the wheel.

Mtn. Goat 666 mentioned that Mud-Terrain tires are inherently unsafe in comparison to Street-biased tires, but he failed to elaborate. What he was probably trying to hit on was that the softer tread composition makes driving a vehicle with a much grippier tread much more likely to hold the asphalt, even when you are in an emergency maneuver.

Regardless, the most likely chance of dying in a stock SUV is a rollover accident. Additionally, the most dangerous form of transportation comes from driving behind the wheel. It is important to keep all things in perspective.

Ken Cooke - 3-21-2008 at 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco de Baja

Got to love Riverside County, California :lol:

Are you poking fun of my hometown??? :lol:

That is on my drive home from work along Cajalco Road, just south of Van Buren Blvd. in Woodcrest, CA. I live near the 91 fwy north of the Auto Center here in Riverside.

TMW - 3-21-2008 at 07:02 PM

The normal leveling kit usually used on late model trucks is 2 inches. With a torsion bar truck they change the keys and usually the upper a arm and add an add a leaf in the rear. A good shop will also change the lower shock connection on at least the front shocks by welding an extension of about 1 -1 1/2 inches. For coil springs they can add a spacer or a longer spring.

I had a 2 inch leveling kit done on my 04 GMC Z71 a couple of months ago at Performance Off-Road here in Bakersfield. Simply put, they did the keys, shock extension, idler arm and A arms and replaced my old add a leaf with a new longer one. Total cost $2,000. The truck rides a hell of a lot better on and off road. I run LT285/75R16 tires. If I shaved a little off the front bumper skirt plastic I could run LT305LT/75R16s.

TonyC - 4-20-2008 at 06:43 PM

I want to thanked you guys for pointing me in the right directions. Just got back from playing in San Quintin back country with the new suspension upgrade to my truck, along with a few other upgrades. My truck is night and day different from where it was at. The handling, and look is everything I wanted....maybe add JBA headers, but my rottweiler won't share his dog house with.

I ended up installing Camburg coil overs with UCA, went from 16 to 18"Raceline rims, LT285/65R18 All Terrain BF Goodrich tires, 5100 bilstein shocks in the back with add leaf kit, volant air intake, and JBA exhaust. I'm hooked.

Before pic:

After pic:

Barry A. - 4-20-2008 at 07:31 PM

Looks good, TonyC----

There is some bad-mouthing of add-a-leafs here in this thread, but I put on Calmini add-a-leafs on my 2007 Nissan X-Terra off-road model, and it raised it 2 1/2 inches and with leveler spacers on the front coil-overs it now rides like a dream, both on road and off-------I do not really feel any "stiffness" at all, especially when it is loaded with some weight. It is vastly better than the "stock" suspension. And the parts were only about $200. :yes:

(the labor was about $700) :lol:

Barry

David K - 4-20-2008 at 07:40 PM

17" tires are very rare in Baja... 16" no problema (what your Toy has now)... That is for an emergency spare. I got one at Rancho Grande (Gonzaga Bay) when a rock went through my previous Toyota's BFG, near El Huerfanito.

Ken Cooke - 4-20-2008 at 10:08 PM

Looks great TonyC! Don't forget to adjust your headlights if you haven't already. Everything looks great.

Barry A. - 4-21-2008 at 09:23 AM

Ken------If your "lift" is the same all around, you shouldn't need to adjust your headlights, should you? I didn't and nobody is blinking at me for blinding them (yet).

TonyC - 4-21-2008 at 10:08 AM

I also installed HID headlights, and was getting blinked. Just a little adjust....all good.

Need to find 18 rim, or at least 17" for my spare. Thanks David K. forgot about my spare rim.

Really thinking about JBA headers, and chip to finish out my upgrades. What....how much HP gain can I expect? Is it true that Tundra in first has only 50% power until it gets to 3K rpm...reason for weak low end torque? Mine seems to come alive right at 3k. 06 Tundra.

DonBaja - 4-21-2008 at 12:27 PM

Good choice with Camburg. That's what I have on my '96 Bronco and love it. They are good guys to deal with.

I don't know where you live but if you are in the Orange County area call Steve at Drivetrain Dynamics in Huntington Beach (714-373-0068). He just did a custom chip for my '68 Bronco. Jerry and all the guys at Camburg use him to dyno the race trucks and personal trucks.

Cypress - 4-21-2008 at 12:34 PM

Seems like there are enough back country roads in Baja already?

If someone wants to go off-road what's wrong with a good pair of hiking boots? :tumble:

Barry A. - 4-21-2008 at 01:02 PM

Cypress-----------not a thing wrong with hiking boots, but I don't recall anybody saying anything about litterally going "off road"----------Where are you coming from with that? :?:

The equipment we are talking about just makes driving primitive roads soooooo much more enjoyable and safe.

Barry

TonyC - 4-21-2008 at 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Seems like there are enough back country roads in Baja already?

If someone wants to go off-road what's wrong with a good pair of hiking boots? :tumble:

Cypress, I think I know where you were going. No disrespect to the land. Hiking and offroad driving.... apples, and oranges. I like both.

I've hiked into a few wilderness forest in North Cal., and Oregon to camp, and bow hunt. I like what you meant by off-road. The offroading I was referring to is a different way to enjoy getting away from pavement. Whatever floats your boat...right? Just respect the land.

Ken Cooke - 4-21-2008 at 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
If someone wants to go off-road what's wrong with a good pair of hiking boots? :tumble:

In 3 days, you can see some real nice Baja Backcountry. 3 days on foot, you're barely scraching the surface.

Baja Pole Line Road - Sierra Juarez Mtns.

Peloncito - 5-7-2008 at 09:57 PM

Tony,

Very nice modification you have there! I also have Tundra (but an '05) I just ordered the Camburg "Performance Kit" with 2.5" coil over shocks and upper control arms. I opted for the Deaver rear leaf spring package as well. For wheels, I have 17"x 8" Robby Gordon race rims with 33" Nitto Terra Graplers. In addition, for $30, I added the Total Chaos urethane bushing steering kit which really tightens things up nicely.

Looks great!

Mike

Cypress - 5-8-2008 at 11:03 AM

Thanks for the pics Ken Cooke.

There's no way a hiker can "see" as much back country as someone traveling at whatever speed all the high teck add-ons will allow.

But do you really see much more than the next rock/hole etc. when traveling at speed along a desert track?

TonyC - 5-9-2008 at 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Thanks for the pics Ken Cooke.

There's no way a hiker can "see" as much back country as someone traveling at whatever speed all the high teck add-ons will allow.

But do you really see much more than the next rock/hole etc. when traveling at speed along a desert track?

YES. Fast isn't the only speed. There isn't one pic. of a rock, and a hole. I see great off road pictures. Sorry I bit.

Ken Cooke - 5-10-2008 at 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Thanks for the pics Ken Cooke.

There's no way a hiker can "see" as much back country as someone traveling at whatever speed all the high teck add-ons will allow.

But do you really see much more than the next rock/hole etc. when traveling at speed along a desert track?

As you can see, I took these photographs while stopped alongside the trail. I love being in the deserts and mountains of Baja, and the photography here at my house is proof.

Sierra Las Tinajas (SouthWest of Mexicali):

If you ask me, I've been able to see plenty thanks to jumping off of the pavement, looking around, and setting up camp with some nice people who I've met over the years...
These photos are very good proof, as well.

[Edited on 5-10-2008 by Ken Cooke]

David K - 5-10-2008 at 08:39 AM

Thanks Ken... the Pole Line Road, yes?

Ken Cooke - 5-10-2008 at 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Thanks Ken... the Pole Line Road, yes?

Yes, the Pole Line Road. The run begins 5 mi. south of the border in the Laguna Salada along Hwy 2, and travels south near La Ventana towards Hwy 5. Its a nice, short trip with plenty to see, and a few rocks to crawl over.

mtgoat666 - 5-10-2008 at 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke

In 3 days, you can see some real nice Baja Backcountry. 3 days on foot, you're barely scraching the surface.

it's all about quality, not quantity. :lol:

Ken Cooke - 5-10-2008 at 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke

In 3 days, you can see some real nice Baja Backcountry. 3 days on foot, you're barely scraching the surface.

it's all about quality, not quantity. :lol:

Um...sometimes, but not always. :bounce:

TMW - 5-11-2008 at 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke

In 3 days, you can see some real nice Baja Backcountry. 3 days on foot, you're barely scraching the surface.

it's all about quality, not quantity. :lol:

You would have loved that 8 hour walk in the 1.5 mile La Turquesa wash with The Squarecircle climbing over, around and thru rocks and sand and cactus with bugs swarming around your head.