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TIP JUAN !!!!

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smlslikfish - 3-24-2008 at 08:36 AM

I can't believe how cheap you Baja people can be. ALWAYS tip your boat crew/ captain if they do a good job. Do the math and you'll see that it's a VERY tough business and nobody's getting rich off what thier charging you. SHEESH!!!!!

Lauriboats - 3-24-2008 at 08:51 AM

We always tip for good service, I have never found Baja people to be cheap. You must be hanging with the wrong crowd.

DENNIS - 3-24-2008 at 08:58 AM

Sure. Why not? Folks in Baja are expected to tip an employee of a supermarket for putting your milk in a bag so, why not tip a skipper who has the skills to put you on a mess of fish?

If the shoe fits

smlslikfish - 3-24-2008 at 08:58 AM

If this doesn't apply to you, then it shouldn't offend. If it does then think about it

BMG - 3-24-2008 at 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by smlslikfish
If this doesn't apply to you, then it shouldn't offend. If it does then think about it

"I can't believe how cheap you Baja people can be."
Your opening statement puts those ill fitting shoes on everyone in Baja. Why shouldn't we be offended by that statement?

tripledigitken - 3-24-2008 at 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by smlslikfish
I can't believe how cheap you Baja people can be. ALWAYS tip your boat crew/ captain if they do a good job. Do the math and you'll see that it's a VERY tough business and nobody's getting rich off what thier charging you. SHEESH!!!!!

Maybe you should switch to decaf. How do you have any idea what others tip for services rendered? :?:

Having said that I agree that a skipper should be tipped for his service and I do.
:yes:

Ken

shari - 3-24-2008 at 09:15 AM

It never ceases to amaze me how Juan puts clients on the fish and everyone raves about how great a guide he is...but very few clients have tipped him...so weird!!!!!! I certainly can't figure it out...is it because he makes friends with them...buddy buddy and they just forget it's his business???maybe drink too many tecates??? enlighten me oh great fishers!

[Edited on 3-24-2008 by shari]

bajamigo - 3-24-2008 at 09:28 AM

It's always a bit of a mystery about when and how much to tip, especially in a foreign country. Personally, I am not offended when someone offering a service tells me up front that he earns his living from the fees he collects AND the gratuities he hopes to receive if the customer is pleased. The blanket statement that Baja people are cheap is a ridiculous one; just read some past posts about what Nomads have done for the people and animals of this country. I believe that failure to tip may be more about not knowing the local custom than about cheapness.

shari - 3-24-2008 at 09:37 AM

a mexican would NEVER EVER fish for tips...many of our guests are fantastic and bring us lots of goodies and are very generous...and you may be right about it just doesn't occur to them to tip...which I don't understand because if they go out in Cabo...they tip BIG and spend alot on the trip...it is interesting...seems the cheaper the rate, the smaller the tip???? maybe we should raise our rates!!!

Osprey - 3-24-2008 at 09:43 AM

Down this way charter fishermen live on their tips. They spend the whole day trying to do the best for their guests not knowing what will come their way at the end of the day so a very long time ago I began to give them the whole tip when the first fish came aboard -- no more wondering, smiles all around and a better trip for all of us. Just MHO.

BMG - 3-24-2008 at 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
a mexican would NEVER EVER fish for tips...many of our guests are fantastic and bring us lots of goodies and are very generous...and you may be right about it just doesn't occur to them to tip...which I don't understand because if they go out in Cabo...they tip BIG and spend alot on the trip...it is interesting...seems the cheaper the rate, the smaller the tip???? maybe we should raise our rates!!!

Shari - how much is a small tip? Average tip? Big tip?

As for tips based on the rates, isn't that usually the case? In a restaurant, it's a percentage of the bill. Would it be different for a service like Juan is offering?

I don't want to be accused of being cheap like everyone else in Baja.

Gadget - 3-24-2008 at 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
Down this way charter fishermen live on their tips. They spend the whole day trying to do the best for their guests not knowing what will come their way at the end of the day so a very long time ago I began to give them the whole tip when the first fish came aboard -- no more wondering, smiles all around and a better trip for all of us. Just MHO.

Yep, that's how I always thought it should be done. Show the guy your cards first and then let him show you what its worth to him. It ends all that speculation that can be a distraction.

Heck, not looking for any back pats here, but we left a gift for Juan on our last trip and I didn't even get to hook up with him to fish! Shari did put us on the surf though and radioed some old friends who stopped by camp for a visit, so it was all good on our end for sure!

shari - 3-24-2008 at 09:57 AM

Hose...to begin with, Juan has the cheapest prices around and has been asked to raise his rates to what others are charging. It isn't that he expects tips at all...HE doesn't...but I on the other hand am just trying to get a grip on why fishermen tip BIG on fancy charters and why people tip in the states but not here. True Juan doesn't live on his tips but a gratuity is a way of showing you liked the service or if a guide goes above and beyond the call of duty and shows you a real good time etc....we are new at this and trying to understand it all. By the way...thanks to all of Juan's clients who treat him to tecate!

sylens - 3-24-2008 at 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
a mexican would NEVER EVER fish for tips...

we've been on many mexican tours that involved a bus and a guide, and on most of them, a sign at the front of the bus clearly stated that propinas would be greatly appreciated if customers were pleased with the service. i don't see this as fishing for tips; i see it as a reminder. and like bajamigo, i am always glad to be reminded.

Diver - 3-24-2008 at 10:11 AM

On small pangas I normally pay the going rate and then tip with fishing gear. Most of the time, the guide is the panga's owner. I also normally leave most of the fish with the boat.

On larger boats, the deck hands and often the captain are not boat owners so I view the tipping a bit different.

Am I wrong ? :?:

And don't get me wrong; a day out fishing with Juan is worth a million.
And if I ever get a WHOLE 40 lb YT I will tip Juan on the lips !!

I wish I was there now !!
.

hookemup - 3-24-2008 at 10:34 AM

Shari
Many years ago I worked as a deckhand in the Gulf of Mexico,pay was $5 per day,so tips were a big deal. We got stiffed so often by high rollers ( I don't think they were "Baja People" but who knows, the skipper put up a sign stating what services to expect and tips were welcome for work well done.It made a huge difference right away. You might try handing out a card with your rates and trip info ,what is incuded, like fish cleaning or Not,etc On the bottom"Gratuity Not Included" even " Baja People"will get it.I always tip 20 to 25%

vandenberg - 3-24-2008 at 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver

On larger boats, the deck hands and often the captain are not boat owners so I view the tipping a bit different.

.

That opened my eyes years ago when fishing out of Mazatlan.
This was in the 70's and for then $140.00 for a 24 ft boat was rather steep. I found out that our skipper was paid $ 5.00 a day, from which he had to pay the deckhand.
The boat owners are the cheapskates. :biggrin:

And BTW, it would be nice if the tipping system was abandoned altogether and evryone in any service industry was paid a living wage.
In Europe they have the audacity to put their 15% gratuity on your check , but then expect a 15 to 20 % percent on top of the bill left on the table. Outrageous !! :mad:

[Edited on 3-24-2008 by vandenberg]

Paula - 3-24-2008 at 10:49 AM

Someone else who should be tipped is your hotel housekeeper-- they generally get a low wage, and 20 or 50 pesos for them makes a big difference in their lives.

And now back to tipping your captain...

Edit: I agree with Ed, if the wage scale were fair, nobody would have to rely on tips.

[Edited on 3-24-2008 by Paula]

TonyC - 3-24-2008 at 10:55 AM

I tip 20% if I see someone doing there best to put me on the fish. I am not saying we have to catch fish. If I feel that the person is just punching clock I tip 10%, and will not fish with that person again. Am I out of line, or to harsh? I also bring line to give away, and some gear. Also bring enough drinks and food for Capt. I'm talking about fishing on a panga, or six packer.

I will try the tip on the front end and see how it works. Never tryed it, but I'm open to try.

Shari please let me know what is a fair tip, and what to tip that will convey that I know a above and beyond effort was given? :?:

vandenberg - 3-24-2008 at 10:55 AM

TIP JUAN

I was thinking,since Shari and Juan get all this free advertising on this forum, Nomad's trips should be free. :biggrin:

Roberto - 3-24-2008 at 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
On small pangas I normally pay the going rate and then tip with fishing gear. Most of the time, the guide is the panga's owner. I also normally leave most of the fish with the boat.

On larger boats, the deck hands and often the captain are not boat owners so I view the tipping a bit different.

Am I wrong ? :?:

Well, it depends. But, tips should come as CASH only. Fishing gear, fish, all that is good, but those are gifts, not substitutes for tips.

David K - 3-24-2008 at 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
TIP JUAN

I was thinking,since Shari and Juan get all this free advertising on this forum, Nomad's trips should be free. :biggrin:

Keep thinking...

Thanks to Shari coming to Nomad, many of us have gone to see her part of Baja for the first time... Just like any other Nomad posts reports do for us.

We all have the financial ability to travel to Mexico and enjoy what's there for us. Those who make a living in Mexico in the tourist business depend on visitors to exist... It's a trade... you have a good time or see new things or catch more fish and you PAY back with cash so the people in Mexico can continue to provide us with such things.

I do know that Shari and Juan GIVE a lot more than they get, so I hope they continue to receive more financial rewards as they really do deserve it.

Go there yourself and see what all the hoopla is about... why so many Nomads are buying places there... How Shari's participation on Nomad is benefitting the whole town of Bahia Asuncion.

Thank you Shari and Juan!

DENNIS - 3-24-2008 at 11:35 AM

Tipping is more a part of the economy in Baja than the states. Do the skippers of charter fishing boats in California expect tips? I'll bet not. It will get worse in Mexico as long as owners allow and support the practice of the customer subsidising low wages and the client goes for it. I don't think the bus drivers in Baja ask for or expect tips probably because their clientele is primarily Mexican.
So, who started all this tipping BS anyway? I think it was the big spending gringo who likes to be magnanimous. Tippers cause tipping and I don't think the trend can be graciously reversed.
And, all of that above includes the guy putting your milk in a bag.

DENNIS - 3-24-2008 at 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
We all have the financial ability to travel to Mexico and enjoy what's there for us. Those who make a living in Mexico in the tourist business depend on visitors to exist... It's a trade... you have a good time or see new things or catch more fish and you PAY back with cash so the people in Mexico can continue to provide us with such things.

Are you refering to tipping or being charged what the product is worth?
Or both?

Sure

soulpatch - 3-24-2008 at 11:39 AM

smlslikfish: Could this be a dead minnow, certainly raises an issue like one.

I'd rather have a Captain charge me up front what he/she feels he is worth for the day and call it good.
If this were to happen you would quickly see who is good and who isn't by how busy they are.
Nobody goes home disgruntled this way...... am I supposed to tip everybody?
I am willing to tip and do so freely but I don't tip at all when service sucks.

My apologies

smlslikfish - 3-24-2008 at 11:58 AM

I'm very sorry if some of you felt unfairly targeted by my general statement that ALL baja people were/are cheap. My intent was to stir up a little controversy and raise some awareness among charter customers as to the realities of the sportfishing/charter business. Just think about it.

DENNIS - 3-24-2008 at 12:08 PM

One more thing, if I may....
I was an employee in the restaurant business for fifteen years in the states. I never worked for an owner who, while working behind his own bar, would accept a tip. They worked with the principle that you do not tip an owner. He sets the prices for his product and if he needs more money, he can raise his prices. I happen to agree with that.

Roberto - 3-24-2008 at 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch
I'd rather have a Captain charge me up front what he/she feels he is worth for the day and call it good.
If this were to happen you would quickly see who is good and who isn't by how busy they are.
Nobody goes home disgruntled this way...... am I supposed to tip everybody?

This is logical thinking, but not the way it works. The owners, operators, owner/operators, etc., factor in tips and expect to get them. Another way to look at is that the price is the cost of the charter PLUS the tip.

Sharksbaja - 3-24-2008 at 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
One more thing, if I may....
I was an employee in the restaurant business for fifteen years in the states. I never worked for an owner who, while working behind his own bar, would accept a tip. They worked with the principle that you do not tip an owner. He sets the prices for his product and if he needs more money, he can raise his prices. I happen to agree with that.

Well there is a conundrum! So my wife(the waitress AND owner AND Baretender AND cashier) is supposed to give all the tips that come in to the dishwasher and or prep-cook? :lol:

I guess they will be retiring very soon.

If you think that owning a restaurant is lucrative for mom & pop places,check again. If not for tips many people would cave, owners included. When it's just me and the wife working do you think I should announce that we are owners and to not tip?
Ay Caramba! :lol:

If folks don't tip regardless of whos working I get VERY concerned.

But I do agree with that philosophy and if we use a waitress she/he receives everything they receive. Otherwise we use a tip sharing formula. That makes our crew one of the best paid menial labor jobs around.

David, you failed recognize the income benefit of owning a B&B and being a Nomad, having Nomads promote your place is ma big advantage .... am I right Baja Cactus, right Bob, Bruce........
No offense meant just the plain truth.

Free advertising aqui. Who needs a banner ad when so many folks are directed to your place of biz.

Remember:

TIPS= "To Insure Proper Service"

gibson - 3-24-2008 at 12:53 PM

the original post wasn't a 'trawl' specifically for the biz at Asuncion was it???

Debra - 3-24-2008 at 01:01 PM

Thanks for this thread, ........

First, I HATE the system of tipping by percentage! What does it have to do with how much I spend? I tip by service, which is most often more than %'s if I get friendly service......doesn't matter if my food takes some time because my server is swamped and alone........(that is managements fault)

Tipping while fishing is a bit more complacated for me (I don't often rent a boat, once in 30yrs.) Last year in Costa Rica we did tip the deck hand quite well, but, not the owner (did we screw up?) We had already paid him $300 for the afternoon. It was a small boat, just the owner deckhand my friend and myself.

I also hate it the the "T.I.P" is added to the bill...(when that happens that is just what is given) Does anyone know just where that money ends up?

I'm really interested to hear everyones thoughts, Thanks

gibson - 3-24-2008 at 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Remember:

TIPS= "To Insure Proper Service"

so you must tip at the beginning of all transactions. interesting.

Sharksbaja - 3-24-2008 at 01:23 PM

I think people who are big tippers are remembered and well received, hence the "insure" part. If someone stiffed you though, you would remember them as well. That is of course, unless you are the owners.

Also since legislation required tip reporting back in the 90s it has been up to the employee (if less than 6 total) to report it. Consequently, while most sales these days are on credit cards, company earnings(tips) are reflected as income for the owner. In other words, we get taxed on YOUR tips.

The system has changed. Big bro also wants his share.

gibson - 3-24-2008 at 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
I think people who are big tippers are remembered and well received, hence the "insure" part. If someone stiffed you though, you would remember them as well. That is of course, unless you are the owners.

you're referring to frequent visitations ie restaurants etc. ok got it.

Osprey - 3-24-2008 at 01:50 PM

Gibson, I understand most of your mean-spirited posts. Since you brought it up though this thing with charters is a very different animal. If you step off a cruise ship, recieve a small service in a foreign port, knowing you'll never return you are not tipping to be remembered. If you fish 4 or 5 times a year at a Baja fishing resort, usually try to get the same favorite boat/captain because you like them, you know them, they worked well for you, you may have to pay someone to get your favorite and you'll tip them generously too -- the same for lots of personal services received by those who travel, golf, use the same hotels, restaurants, etc. That's what tourism is all about -- the biggest tippers (by some poll) are people from Las Vegas (where I'm from) (I'm probably not one of em) and Hawaii where all the folks know everyone who meets and greets you lives or dies on tips.

Debra - 3-24-2008 at 02:12 PM

Sharks, you bring up a good point.......

And it is soooooo wrong! Uncle Sam should keep out the pockets of service providers tips! I remember when that first happened and I think the tipping public was almost as POed as the service providers.

Iflyfish - 3-24-2008 at 02:22 PM

There are for me a number of issues involved in this. I am the sort that has purchased and then given things like lures etc. to fishermen in Mexico. These things cost money and often more than I would provide as a tip. I may bee off track with this approach.

A lot of Mexico and much of the world opperate primarily on a barter system, goods and services are exchanged between folks. In remote and agricultural areas few have money but they do have chickens, pigs and eggs, they do jobs for eachother and there is an ongoing give and take in this way. The balance sheet is maintained, but usually in an informal way that is not openly discussed.

As an outsider it is difficult to decode what the barter system is and what is equible. When it comes to tipping I know that in a restaurant in the States, my country of origin, that it is customary to tip between 10-15 percent for service and higher for excellent service. I know that the food service economy is based upon assumptions of 10-15 percent and taxes are levied on receipts based upon this assumption. I have learned that it is not necessary to tip the OWNER of a business as they should build their costs AND PROFIT into the price that they charge. If they are not building these costs into their prices then they are simply not doing good business.

I would encourage those in business in Mexico who are doing business with folks from the USofA to be very clear what the expectations are. It may be localy rude or pushy to clearly state your needs or wants, there may be taboos against this. However for the sake of good feelings and knowing that your needs will be met I think it is essential to be clear up front about all expectations related to economic exchanges. I respond when I see clear prices and a statement that prices DO NOT INCLUDE A GRATUITY. This statement clearly states the expectation that there will be a gratuity.

I had a business and stated clearly my prices. I established my prices so that I received sufficient compensation that I did not feel I was compromizing or victimizing myself. I would hope that others do the same. It is easy to feel discounted and victimized if you are not clear of you expectations of others. People are often reluctant to ask for what they need and then feel bad. Some people need to feel bad and always feel victimized because that is their emotional pay off. "It's never good enough" for some folks. I don't lke this game and don't take on guilt from it.

I charged higher rates than most, was told that I should not, but prospered because of my good service and NEVER resented the economics of my enterprise. I did provide a percentage of pro bono services because that felt good for me to do. I never felt victimized for doing that, it was a gift to myself.

Iflyfish

Got Ya

smlslikfish - 3-24-2008 at 02:27 PM

750 views and 37 responses in about 4 hours! Not a bad mornings work. In all honesty the people I've met in baja have been one of the foremost reasons I go there. I love the free spiritedness and sense of adventure I find there. Laugh it off and REMEMBER to..... TIP YOUR CREW :saint:

Tiomiguel - 3-24-2008 at 02:27 PM

Interesting comment about not having tips in the US. I fish in Florida and up north, and last year in Cuba on charters and the sign is almost always on the boat, including on dive boats as well, that tips are appreciated. These signs seem to encourage tipping for good service. That's the key, good service and a good time and person. Nobody tips a surly operator.
We normally end up on charters tipping about $10 to $20. If on a big boat, like offshore fisherman were we pay like $500 for a charter we seem to end up tipping more. Now that now seems to me wierd. Do we have that much more fun on a big boat? Anyway, I think its always good to show your appreciation in addition to the normal rate, if they are good.

elizabeth - 3-24-2008 at 02:27 PM

I don't fish, but I do dive, and I always tip the boat captain, and on multiple days of diving, which is mostly always, I tip daily. The boat captain on a dive boat has a lot of responsibility, helping with gear, hauling it up to the boat when you surface, following the bubbles, knowing where the best dive spots are...etc, etc, etc.

I am always surprised by the number of people who don't tip. Sometimes, I'm a little less discreet in handing the tip than I like to be, to kind of give a hint! I also tip the guide/divemaster...but, not the owner of the dive shop!

I've been told that I shouldn't tip owners of businesses, but I think that sometimes it's the right thing to do when it's a small business, and the owners are out there working.

My tipping may have something to do with all the years that I worked as a waitress, and what they called then, a bar maid. I know what it's like to have to live on tip money.

Sharksbaja - 3-24-2008 at 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by smlslikfish
750 views and 37 responses in about 4 hours! Not a bad mornings work.

Bob and Susan - 3-24-2008 at 03:03 PM

"no tip for you" sharkman

tripledigitken - 3-24-2008 at 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja

Quote:

Originally posted by smlslikfish
750 views and 37 responses in about 4 hours! Not a bad mornings work.

smlslikfish,

I think the high number of view and posts to your thread have to do with the fondness for Shari and Juan by many here. Including some that haven't even personally met them.

By the way, your handle is.... "smells like fish", is it not?

Ken

Sharksbaja - 3-24-2008 at 03:33 PM

:lol:

DENNIS - 3-24-2008 at 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by smlslikfish
750 views and 37 responses in about 4 hours!

The lame response is probably due to the fact that the topic has been beat to death before. "Tipping" threads are like old worn out shoes. It's about time for an "Immigration" thread to come alive again.

Pescador - 3-24-2008 at 04:49 PM

Dennis, you are wrong about the charter boats not getting tips. The long range boats from San Diego have taken the ability to communicate the art of tipping to their clients to a whole new level. So everyone knows clearly that tips are necessary and expected unless you feel you did not receive good service.

Shari, the biggest problem and one I have discussed with San Marcos Mike over the years is that most people assume when you are the owner then you have set your prices to reflect what you think the price should be for the day. So he has developed the philosophy that I will take you fishing, I will work my ass off for you, but I am not cleaning your fish unless you tip me. I think the biggest challenge is to be able to communicate in a warm and friendly manner that tips are accepted and welcomed. I think the easiest way to do that is with a small sign or poster. Just enough of a nudge so that they end up thinking it was their idea but enough of a nudge to get the point across. Perhaps something to the effect of: We keep our prices as low as possible, if you think you got great service and were well taken care of, a small tip is greatly appreciated.

gibson - 3-24-2008 at 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
Gibson, I understand most of your mean-spirited posts. Since you brought it up though this thing with charters is a very different animal. If you step off a cruise ship, recieve a small service in a foreign port, knowing you'll never return you are not tipping to be remembered. If you fish 4 or 5 times a year at a Baja fishing resort, usually try to get the same favorite boat/captain because you like them, you know them, they worked well for you, you may have to pay someone to get your favorite and you'll tip them generously too -- the same for lots of personal services received by those who travel, golf, use the same hotels, restaurants, etc. That's what tourism is all about -- the biggest tippers (by some poll) are people from Las Vegas (where I'm from) (I'm probably not one of em) and Hawaii where all the folks know everyone who meets and greets you lives or dies on tips.

yea I got this one wrong. I was reading 'Tips Ensure... not Tips Insure... . my bad

DENNIS - 3-24-2008 at 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
Dennis, you are wrong about the charter boats not getting tips. The long range boats from San Diego have taken the ability

Just positing an opinion formed from a time in my life when sport boats were evidently operated differently. Deck hands always received tips but, to my knowledge, the skipper wasn't in the gratuity loop. He was simply well payed.
I've not had any experience with long range boats.
I'm not surprised that the custom is taking hold in the U.S. economy where competition drives the market. Operators can offer a lower advertised price for their services and keep payroll down if the client can be relied upon, or pressured to pick up the slack with gratuities.
In Mexico, the operators, the owners, don't normally compete by dropping their prices but, pay low wages and support gratuities. An added financial burden to all but the owner.
Where is it all going? Will the consumer be the sole support of the working man relieving the employer of the responsibility?

Roberto - 3-24-2008 at 05:33 PM

Jeeez. 49 replies and way beyond the original point. SOMEBODY :rolleyes:

obviously thinks Juan is not getting tipped enough. Frankly, I find that easy to believe, given my experience of people going fishing. There is no need to discuss this or conduct a symposium on the meaning of tips and the state of the general economy. :lol:

Tip the man, or don't. Just be aware that SOMEBODY thinks you should dig deeper.

What's that about the devil and idle hands? GET A LIFE.

roundtuit - 3-24-2008 at 05:36 PM

So how far do we take this tipping. When I go to the bank in the states and deposit money do I tip the teller. When I buy gas at a self service do I tip the cashier. When I go to home depot do I tip the cashier. Where does it stop.
Yes I do tip where I recieve special care no out of nessicity.

gibson - 3-24-2008 at 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto
Jeeez. 49 replies and way beyond the original point. SOMEBODY :rolleyes:

Tip the man, or don't. Just be aware that SOMEBODY thinks you should dig deeper.

What's that about the devil and idle hands? GET A LIFE.

point taken. back to original post... I think coming on a public forum and whinging about not getting enuf tips is really lame! There's way better approaches.

shari - 3-24-2008 at 05:57 PM

whoa nelllllly...just to set the record straight, we do not know smelly fish, not is it minnow man....now...one cannot compare baja to america in this issue...Iflyfish got it right about the barter system here...it's just NOT about money...when you do something nice for someone, they somehow return the favor however they can...but they DO show their appreciation for a good turn...IMHO...tipping is not a percentage, or even neccessary thing...it is a very personal thing...those of you who know us know that we generally go well above and beyond the call of duty...renting a room...or fishing charters...but seeing as we have been busier lately, it is a bit disconcerning when you constantly "put out" a lot and your efforts go unappreciated. For example, there is an internet cafe in town but most people use ours but fail to "cooperate"...here in mexico, it's all about cooperation and respect...we all cooperate to help each other and it's a spirit more than a surcharge or percentage...it's personal...if you come to my house and drink a bottle of scotch, well...it's a nice gesture to replace the bottle...we are mexican living on a mexican income and believe it or not, it is not easy for us to ply our guests with drinks, food, drive them around etc.....on a daily basis...we have had many very cool clients who "get" the picture and "cooperate" which really helps us out alot...sure we don't HAVE to offer you drinks and drive you around to get you the best exchange rate on your dollar and show you lots etc...and secret spots...but our guests are really happy when we do....but it sort of spoils it for everyone when people abuse our hospitality...want a free ride...hey if we were rich...no sweat man...c-cktails on us...but we are struggling to start a little business here and have no bank loans, capital etc...like in gringolandia...so cut us some slack here and try to understand our unique spirit here. weedy weedy weedy...sorry for the tirade...so ummm...tipping should NOT be included in the price as it sliding scale, depends on service, personalities, extra goodies...I tell ya, when we get treated right...we definately give those clients top priority when they come back and spoil them even MORE!!!!!

shari - 3-24-2008 at 05:58 PM

oh yeah, and another thing...gibson...you are WAY off base...don't bother dropping in amigo.

gibson - 3-24-2008 at 06:13 PM

sniff ... sniff sniff ... sniff wow definitely something fishy!

DENNIS - 3-24-2008 at 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
..so cut us some slack here and try to understand our unique spirit here.

Point well taken, Shari. I only speak from an idealistic point of view. I just don't think a person should give his best only after being tipped. He should give his best always.
None of my thoughts were directed at you and Juan personally.

bajamigo - 3-24-2008 at 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja

Quote:

Originally posted by smlslikfish
750 views and 37 responses in about 4 hours! Not a bad mornings work.

Interesting statistic. Right up there with a little over 20 posts in nearly five years. Maybe smls' server was down.

Osprey - 3-24-2008 at 07:06 PM

Wow! This is why I love this forum. Often a thread grows long, lots of views about a subject -- some say "get a life", "stop beating a dead horse" because their view is all they care about. Sometimes, like now, people with interesting life experiences touching on the subject can bring new life to the thread, we all learn more and from very different perspectives -- prespectives derived from extensive travel, occupational immersion, regional, tribal customs, cultural nuance, etc. I've learned a lot from this thread and I hope we have many more like it. Huzzah! Dudes.

vandenberg - 3-24-2008 at 07:12 PM

Well Jorge,
you know as well as I do that if you tip your 21 dealer generously, you will get rewarded with winning hands. :biggrin:

soulpatch - 3-24-2008 at 07:55 PM

So what is the appropriate tip???? For one pangero is it based on his daily rate? A boat with a deckhand? 100, 200, 400 pesos?
chiite, I give the grocery bagger kid if he carries my stuff out 10 to 20 pesos and it's only about 3 meters.
What are the standards? I've had some locals give me SERIOUS chiite for overtipping at times.

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

Quote:

David K - 3-24-2008 at 08:03 PM

I got 'scolded' by a Mexican friend when I left a 'nice' tip after a great meal (which I felt was underpriced)... he said that the tip was too much. :rolleyes:

The Sculpin - 3-24-2008 at 08:07 PM

I never tip.....I never expect a tip.
If someone goes out of their way for me, I tell them I appreciate it, and I will do the same for them - and I have.
I have worked as a waiter, cook, fish filleter, limo driver, car washer, accountant, CPA, and executive, and never has any tip corresponded to the effort I provided. I expended the effort because it was the right thing to do. The best tips I ever got were from people who were impressed with me and provided me with another or different opportunity. That was by far much better than a lousy 20% tip.
Regardless of Shari's rant, she's not doing it for the tips, or else she wouldn't be doing it at all. So don't worry about the appropriate levels, or making it obvious to clients, or any of that other $#!t, just do the job as best you can, and do it for the love of the job - and if it doesn't work, get another f%$#(&g job!

Sharksbaja - 3-24-2008 at 08:21 PM

You worked in the biz as a waiter? Then a CPA? Well that pretty much sums it up. I'm sure many places value your mantra much more than money. :lol:

"I never tip.....I never expect a tip"
"That must have been you 5 yrs ago.......

"The best tips I ever got were from people who were impressed with me and provided me with another or different opportunity."

So you are a prostitute? :lol:

Grrrrrrr............Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!

Sharksbaja - 3-24-2008 at 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch
So what is the appropriate tip???? For one pangero is it based on his daily rate? A boat with a deckhand? 100, 200, 400 pesos?
chiite, I give the grocery bagger kid if he carries my stuff out 10 to 20 pesos and it's only about 3 meters.
What are the standards? I've had some locals give me SERIOUS chiite for overtipping at times.

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

Quote:

At local restaurants? We have few customers who tip painfully high. While we wondered why we discovered later while dining with one elsewhere that that was just his flamboyant nature. We felt it would be awkward to address his extravagance. His choice. BTW, he is extremely well off.

Quote:

it is a bit disconcerning when you constantly "put out" a lot and your efforts go unappreciated

Welcome to the real world.

David K - 3-24-2008 at 08:37 PM

Sculpin, I understand your post... but, in order for restaurants to stay in business at competitive or attractive prices, they have to pay the help as little as possible... BECAUSE tipping is the custom here and is expected. The waiters here are taxed on 15% of the bill regardless if you tip them or not.

So, if you got bad service than a 0 tip will cost them the 15% of your food and drink bill... Hope they get the message quick!

Anyway, 15% is the new absolute minimum for waiters/ waitresses because that is what they will be paying an income tax on. Otherwise, eat at home or fast food if that isn't something you wish to do... It's only right, don't you think?

Stickers - 3-24-2008 at 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Sculpin
I never tip.....I never expect a tip.
If someone goes out of their way for me, I tell them I appreciate it, and I will do the same for them - and I have.

Definition: Sculpin fish

"......... the fish itself is somewhat unique and a little odd, but some of the tactics necessary to accurately imitate the characteristics of the fish are unconventional".

.

BMG - 3-24-2008 at 08:48 PM

All these responses and still no answers to the basic question raised. How much is an appropriate tip? I'm accused of being cheap here but no one wants to come up with a fair figure. Let's try it this way.

A friend and myself rent a panga for the day. Only the captain, no crew. The cost quoted is U$100. The captain is good and friendly. Fish are caught. The captain cleans and fillets the fish.

What is considered:

1. A low tip.
2. A fair tip.
3. A high tip.

fishbuck - 3-24-2008 at 08:51 PM

I fished with Jaun. It wasn't a formal trip but he took me for a few hours after work. We were fishing like buddies but I still found a way to pay. It was worth it. He is fun to fish with.
As soon as Yellowtail or something else gets good I'm haulin down there.
I expect to pay for my trip and will be glad to tip as well. Juan fishes hard and knows where to look for fish. He's my kind of captain.

DENNIS - 3-24-2008 at 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BMG
A friend and myself rent a panga for the day. Only the captain, no crew. The cost quoted is U$100. The captain is good and friendly. Fish are caught. The captain cleans and fillets the fish.

What is considered:

1. A low tip.
2. A fair tip.
3. A high tip.

More like a life-long contract if that's all he charges.

Sharksbaja - 3-24-2008 at 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BMG
All these responses and still no answers to the basic question raised. How much is an appropriate tip? I'm accused of being cheap here but no one wants to come up with a fair figure. Let's try it this way.

A friend and myself rent a panga for the day. Only the captain, no crew. The cost quoted is U$100. The captain is good and friendly. Fish are caught. The captain cleans and fillets the fish.

What is considered:

1. A low tip.
2. A fair tip.
3. A high tip.

Cmon amigo, noone will answer that question. Some leave a 5% gratuity and some 25% and have no prob with it. If they tell they might get some flack. Common sense and the obvious service factor are what it takes. When food/fishing is bad and service good? Leave your server/fisherman a tip and gracefully mention your dislikes about the food or ?. Don't worry, the owners/cook/chef will hear all about it later. That doesn't mean the food/fishing will get better however.

edit to include fishing, thanks Gibson yer a doll!

[Edited on 3-25-2008 by Sharksbaja]

gibson - 3-24-2008 at 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Cmon amigo, noone will answer that question. Some leave a 5% gratuity and some 25% and have no prob with it. If they tell they might get some flack. Common sense and the obvious service factor are what it takes. When food is bad and service good? Leave your server a tip and gracefully mention your dislikes about the food. Don't worry, the cook/chef will hear all about it later. That doesn't mean the food will get better however.

cmon amiga, get out of your restaurant rut! we're over that!

BMG - 3-24-2008 at 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja

Quote:

Cmon amigo, noone will answer that question. Some leave a 5% gratuity and some 25% and have no prob with it. If they tell they might get some flack. Common sense and the obvious service factor are what it takes. When food is bad and service good? Leave your server a tip and gracefully mention your dislikes about the food. Don't worry, the cook/chef will hear all about it later. That doesn't mean the food will get better however.

So there lies the problem. Everyone in Baja is whitewashed as being cheap, but no one will say what 'cheap' is. Just that charters in Cabo get big tips while the little guys in pangas get screwed.

In the above example if we tip what you seem to be indicating is a large 25% tip (U$25) that would be only a 10% tip on a $250 charter. I know a lot of references in this thread to food service but that IS based on the price of the dinner tab. No one would be expected to leave a U$20 tip on a U$20 tab, but it would be close to the norm on a U$100-U$125 tab.

Let me simplify my question even more.

A friend and myself rent a panga for the day. Only the captain, no crew. The cost quoted is U$100. The captain is good and friendly. Fish are caught. The captain cleans and fillets the fish. How much do you think MY FRIEND AND I should tip this captain?

Sharksbaja - 3-24-2008 at 09:33 PM

A 25% tip on $250 is $62.50. That's not bad imho.

Tip

BajaDanD - 3-24-2008 at 10:18 PM

I fish long range out of San Diego a lot. The boats Ive fished off of the crew split the tips with the crew not the boat owner and if the captain is not the owner he still doesnt get in on the crews tips. tips are 10% - 20% of trip cost
In Mex if I hire a panga and pangero and he does his job even if the fish dont cooperate I still tip 10%-20% of the cost if I hired a panga for $100 it probably wouldnt even cover his gas
I just fished out of San Quintin cost me $310 We caught fish but came in early because of the weather. Big swell and wind. I tipped the captain $40. It was not his boat I tipped another guy $15 for cleaning my fish and gave more then half my fish to him and some to the captain too.
Ive known some pangeros that would be offended if you tried to offer them a tip before the trip started Its like telling them that you have to pay them extra for them to do their job right. And that you think they wont if you dont pay them to.
They will however gladly take it at the end of the day.
I also give tackle and line as gifts on top of tips when I can afford to.

Debra - 3-24-2008 at 10:37 PM

Wow! See? this is a topic worth talking about.....so many different thoughts and understandings.. And everyone trying to learn. Good!

TonyC - 3-24-2008 at 10:50 PM

Quote:

I'm a newbie to fishing in Baja Norte, only been fishing since 2005, San Quintin area. I don't see why no one can answer BMG's 1,2,3, question. I want to be fair with regards to question 1,2, or 3.

I'll use real numbers,and my limited experience. To fish on a panga $300-$400 depends on who you go with (3-4 fishing).

I use 1-10%,2-15% 3-20%, 25% above and beyond, and in my experience not everyone does that (above and beyond). I have also taken my Mexican friend, and his family to a restaurant. The bill came to $480. peso. I tipped $90 peso for what I thought pretty good service. His wife said I tipped more than a day of wages. Where am I at on question 1,2, or 3?

Forget that "Reservoir Dog" movie....I don't believe in tipping. That's load of of cr#p. They expect a tip, and should get one. My opinion.

Hook - 3-24-2008 at 10:51 PM

So, apparently tipping is EXPECTED when a service provided is deemed to be underpaid at the prevailing rates?

Well, let's see, I guess teachers should put out a tip jar. Or how about postal workers? Maybe the Costco baggers and the cart jockies? The thrift store workers? The guy in the window at the filling station?

Geez, the possibilities are endless.................. :wow:

Don Alley - 3-24-2008 at 11:08 PM

A good starting point is 15-20% for a panga captain.

But it helps to have a basic understanding of his particular situation:

Example 1. On a similar, current thread on Bloodydecks.com, a La Paz outfitter states that East Cape cruisers generally are operated by a hired captain paid 250 pesos, and a deckhand, who works for tips only. I haven't fished cruisers myself (in decades, anyway) but I'd tip more than just 15%.

Example 2. "Company pangas" I have no idea how much captains who are hired to run company pangas, such as Arturo's in Loreto, but I bet it's way below the fare, close to what the East Cape guys get paid. I'd tip them a bit more, maybe 30% if service is good.

Example 3. Owner operated pangas. Loreto prices are, if I remember correctly, $210US hired through the co-op office. 5% goes to the office, 5% to the co-op, 90% to the captain. Cost of their boats were probably roughly $10,000 to $18,000 depending on the availability of govt subsidies. And gas may run $25-50 a trip. Still, that's a better deal than 250 pesos. But I still tip these guys 15-20%.

Example 4. A captain with his own boat charging $100. Wow, that's a deal that's pretty much disappeared. Enjoy it while you can, and if you tip 20% you are getting a steal! Frankly, I can't imagine getting a deal like that and not tipping at all, and I can understand how it could result the provocative "cheap Baja people" remark. It's outrageous, IMO.

Now, philosophically one could argue that the owner operators, as professional, self employed businessmen, should just set a fair price and forego any gratuity. Perhaps there is some logic in that, but I believe the practice of relegating a portion of the price to a voluntary tip is part of a subtle, yet important communication between captain and client, and is especially important in long term relationships. It personalizes the deal. And because these deals are personal, it makes it difficult to answer the "How much do I tip" question with a dollar or percentage amount that's always appropriate.

Sharksbaja - 3-25-2008 at 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
So, apparently tipping is EXPECTED when a service provided is deemed to be underpaid at the prevailing rates?

Well, let's see, I guess teachers should put out a tip jar. Or how about postal workers? Maybe the Costco baggers and the cart jockies? The thrift store workers? The guy in the window at the filling station?

Geez, the possibilities are endless.................. :wow:

Yep and throw in a fuel surcharge and you've conquered inflation! :light:

Iflyfish - 3-25-2008 at 01:01 AM

All of these differing perspectives from people who care tell me that there is a lot of confusion on this matter for all involved and this creates the possibility of bad feelings on both the side of the client and on the side of the operator. Here in the US this last week Starbucks was required to give it's barristas back over a million dollars in tips that were shared by the managers, who were deamed by the court not to be elegable for them because they were in management positions.

I just try to do the best I can in the situation and to be as generous as feels right to me. That is all I can do in a situation like this with so much vaguery involved. It is a real set up to play games with money when people are not clear of their expectations. Lack of clarity is a set up for games about money.

Gratuity not included. Business people who let people know this are
ebeing clear about their needs, if they don't then they are responsible for people not fulfilling their expectations. The variety of responses and lack of clarity are evidence of this from my perspective.

I personally use a rule of thumb that goes 10-20% based upon service unless there is some element of barter involved and I try to be as clear about that as is possible. I also try to be as generous as I can given the difference in my circumstances vs those of others not as well offf as I am.
I tink it is up to the business owner to provide some sort of direction for this if tips are important to them.

I have a friend who owns some lodges and I worked for a while at one. There was a tip jar hidden away and it was seldom used. I put it in a conspicuous place and low and behold money started to appear in it...dah?

Even good and generous people may not understand what is expected or required. Some are just simply opposed to tipping on principal as noted above. Some people are just by nature cheap and look for the best bargain....period.

Iflyfish

gibson - 3-25-2008 at 02:26 AM

somebody needs to revise their business model and/or maybe raise prices. Getting on a forum and whining about tips is not only low class but very UNmexican (can't imagine the other culture clashes goin' on!)
good luck with all that

Capt. George - 3-25-2008 at 04:04 AM

If it's your boat and you're the Captain/Owner, charge what you need to in order to make it a viable business...

If a mate is included, yes he should be tipped, but an owner/operator, NO WAY!

And I'm a very liberal tipper.

Charter Captain and Guide for many years, tips were not expected or hinted for....on the other hand, for my mate I had no problem reminding clients that they tip a waitress 15/20% for, basically a few minutes service.....A mate holds yer hand all day long! Captain George

sd - 3-25-2008 at 06:38 AM

Super Panga (Captain only) is $250 plus 10% tax where I fish on the East Cape. Cruiser (Captain and deckhand) is $385 plus 10% tax.
These boats are owned by the resort.

I tip $30 on the panga, and $40 on the cruiser. I have tried tipping up front, but in my experience it did not seem to make a difference. Most are hard working and want to put you on fish. Some are lazy or have attitudes, I still tip but do not fish with them again.

Also, bait is purchased after you leave shore from bait boats. $2.00 US for each large bait, and $10-20 for sardinas depending on the quanity you need. I give these guys a couple of $ tip.

Some smaller Pangas may only be worth $100 per day with captain. Small with tiny bench seat. And some are not maintained well.

Baja workers I have talked to make $5 to $25 per day. Those with $25 per day jobs say they are very lucky.

805gregg - 3-25-2008 at 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Capt. George
If it's your boat and you're the Captain/Owner, charge what you need to in order to make it a viable business...

If a mate is included, yes he should be tipped, but an owner/operator, NO WAY!

And I'm a very liberal tipper.

Charter Captain and Guide for many years, tips were not expected or hinted for....on the other hand, for my mate I had no problem reminding clients that they tip a waitress 15/20% for, basically a few minutes service.....A mate holds yer hand all day long! Captain George

I agree captain (if it's his boat) charges what he's worth, crew gets a tip.

pascuale - 3-25-2008 at 07:55 AM

I work every summer on a boat in San Diego 1 and 2 day. We get paid 90 for 24 hours. Keep in mind we dont leave the boat for 5 days. Tying hooks, changing line, pinnin dines and tossing em, yellin at everyone to move around the corner all day long, untangling every single fish that the customer tied up because they didnt keep their lines straight, gaffing 100+ 20-40lb fish, tagging them, putting them in the fish box, spraying and scrubbing the boat off after each stop, putting out the trollers 100 times, then removing every 20-40 lb fish from the fish box (it fu&^in hurts your back), Then filleting each one while some customer stands over your shoulder making sure that all the unwanted bellies of the tuna go to him, oh and number 18 wants his fillets butterflied. Number 6 wants us to make sure that he gets some too. Oy yeah i forgot throwing bait, and sitting on top of the house with specs all day looking my ass off for kelps and breaking fish.
If I dont get a tip after that, then **** you!

And for those who say i should be happy with $90 and there are mexicans that would do it for alot less. you try it! and then say that you dont expect a tip for working your culo off. The one days cost $175 and if we got $20 from each of the 25 guys we would be stoked, but truth is half tip $2-5 and the rest tip $20-50. If you dont know how to tip, dont get on the Damn boat! Oh and the captain, 2nd captain, cook, and 2 deckies all split the side money.

[Edited on 3-25-2008 by pascuale]

[Edited on 3-25-2008 by pascuale]

[Edited on 3-25-2008 by pascuale]

[Edited on 3-25-2008 by pascuale]

[Edited on 3-25-2008 by Hose A]

DENNIS - 3-25-2008 at 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pascuale
We get paid 90 for 24 hours.

Regardless of the tips you may or may not receive, I'd say you're grossly underpaid. Employers like that cause unions.

Santiago - 3-25-2008 at 08:48 AM

Lots of interesting takes here. I suspect we all would tip differently based on where we're fishing out of: the highly developed fishing-destination areas have pretty clear pricing/tipping practices in place. If you're not sure then you simply ask the tour operator who has probably already told you in your first meeting with them.
Then you have places like San Quitin where there are panaga operators who's main source of income is taking guys fishing - but is more low-key than the Cabo marina.
But then there are the smaller towns of a few thousand folks that don't get much tourist traffic and when you ask someone to take you fishing you can see they don't have a ready price: they first look at your truck, how you're dressed, are your reels rusted 6/0s or shinny Internationals - the very thing that I would do if I were in their shoes.
The upshot is I just don't think you can come up with a rule for all of Baja. But I do think this is a subject that we should bring up from time-to-time as we get set in our ways when infact we should understand that the times are a changing and it wouldn't hurt for some of us to change too.
I'm gonna take Divers tack - give the guide a big smack on the kisser whenever you get anything over 20#. Over 100# - you're on yer own.

Runs on gas.gif - 40kB

wilderone - 3-25-2008 at 08:50 AM

Well, Pasquale, if it's any consolation - you guys really make the trip with all your help and expertise.

Oso - 3-25-2008 at 08:56 AM

Tip the boat crew with bananas, they love 'em! :lol:

Seriously, here's a guide to tipping in different countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping_by_region

I would only consider stiffing a wait in one situation with two conditions:
A) The service was terrible, AND B) I had no intention of ever coming back.
If the service was mediocre or worse but the food was good and I thought I might return, I would still tip 15% anyway. I'm just not that fond of Carne con Saliva Ajena.

soulpatch - 3-25-2008 at 08:57 AM

Quote:

Example 4. A captain with his own boat charging $100. Wow, that's a deal that's pretty much disappeared. Enjoy it while you can, and if you tip 20% you are getting a steal! Frankly, I can't imagine getting a deal like that and not tipping at all, and I can understand how it could result the provocative "cheap Baja people" remark. It's outrageous, IMO.

I kind of took that as an "easy to do math on" example.

Steve&Debby - 3-25-2008 at 08:59 AM

If you don't make enough money at the job you do and have to depend on tips to make a living maybe its time to get a different job!!!! I don't think it is right to put a guilt trip on your customer as to how much they should give for a tip,after all they have already agreed to pay the price you decieded you needed to take them fishing.If you have to depend on tips maybe you should raise your price to cover your over head and still have enough to put in your pocket. I drill water wells for a living and I set my prices to cover my over head and to put money in my pocket. My customer is told the priceing before I start the job and if all is agreed on then the job is done and I am paid for my services,I don't depend or expect a tip.

soulpatch - 3-25-2008 at 09:06 AM

I will admit that the first time I went out on a panga I did not tip. I had no idea that when the guy told me $140 for a day that I needed to. I had no experience in this and it wasn't until later in the day that I was "enlightened".
This was on my bachelor trip to BoLA and my cheap future BIL had pretty much drained all my resources and I had two young kids that wanted to fish so we went out with a guy for about 5 hours and cruised the inner part of the bay for some firecracker jurel. The guy went home at 11 and I cleaned all the fish. He didn't burn much fuel at all since we ran out to Que Malo and then the back side of Horsehead. That was pretty much it.
In retrospect I would have had him clean all my fish and thrown him $40 to make it right.
The only other tipping situation I had was on a boat on a 3 day out of San Diego and the deckhands sucked. They were smoking while fish were laying on the deck and when it was cleaning time they had all the fish stacked in the sun for hours. And then they copped 'tudes when you told them you wanted your fish iced pronto. I had to literally toss half my fish. The cook was interesting, too, and ended up cuffed at the end of the tripped.
I didn't tip those guys chiite.

BMG - 3-25-2008 at 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch

Quote:

I kind of took that as an "easy to do math on" example.

I took the price off Shari's website. Wasn't sure if the "Juan" was her Juan or just smlslikfish calling all Mexican boat crew/ captains Juan.

I appreciate the answers on the tipping question though. I find that tipping varies quite a bit in different countries as to what is expected and/or customary. I earlier had asked questions about how much to tip the garbage collectors at Christmas or the Pemex attendants. Still not sure how much to give that bagger at the grocery store.

mulegemichael - 3-25-2008 at 09:28 AM

It's been my experience in fishing with pangueros and on cruisers in the East Cape region that they DEPEND on your tips for a living. The capitans and deckhands on the big boats are VERY underpaid and the panguero is just scratching out a living...ANY extra, whether it be dinero, food, fishing gear, etc, is appreciated. I think the accepted propina is 20%

pascuale - 3-25-2008 at 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve&ebby
If you don't make enough money at the job you do and have to depend on tips to make a living maybe its time to get a different job!!!! I don't think it is right to put a guilt trip on your customer as to how much they should give for a tip,after all they have already agreed to pay the price you decieded you needed to take them fishing.If you have to depend on tips maybe you should raise your price to cover your over head and still have enough to put in your pocket. I drill water wells for a living and I set my prices to cover my over head and to put money in my pocket. My customer is told the priceing before I start the job and if all is agreed on then the job is done and I am paid for my services,I don't depend or expect a tip.

I dont really want to drill water wells and thats not really a service industry either. Do you make your customer lunch while you drill his well? Sure, i could complete the job based on my pay but i give more, so you can keep your drill job and ill stay on the ocean and fish every day in the summer. Theres no guilt trip on the customer, it is a gratuity if a good job is done. Most people who go out to eat dont expect that the gratuity is included do they? People dont invite you over to show them how to drill a well as a recreational activity, that is why you get no tip :?:

shari - 3-25-2008 at 09:44 AM

wow...4 pages of resonses....by the way Gibson...I did not start this thread...nor would have...nor am I whining about tips....just baffled...we set our prices low so it would be affordable for most people. I don't feel tips should solicited nor be a percentage but an offering of appreciation for a service well rendered...thus reflecting your pleasure with the service. If a panguero tries hard, is good at his job, is helpful and pleasant, cleans your fish etc...hey $5 for a six pack goes a long way! I find americans very price oriented...want it to be clear and fixed...well...I'm all for sliding scale...each client is different, fishing trips vary, lots of variables enter into the eqation and we like to figure that into the "prices" of service. I know it's maddening but fair.

sd - 3-25-2008 at 09:58 AM

Pascuale,

Multi day boats out of San Diego are in a different category in my opinion. I have fished the Royal Star, Royal Polaris and American Angler on 3 - 5 day trips from San Diego.

On these trips, there have been about 8-11 crew members and captains. On one trip, there were 4 licensed captains on board, all certified as such. Included was a professionally trained chef.

From what I see, each person gets about 4 hours of sleep each day, as they also take turns helping serve dinners and doing dishes.

These people are the hardest working I have ever experienced. You have explained well what a typical day is like for you as a crewmember.

It's a different fishing experience than a Baja Panga trip, and one that most would enjoy.

The long range fleet has a huge investment in each boat. Huge quantities of fuel are used.

When tipping on these long range boats I take into consideration that I have had a quality fishing experience and also had 3 gourmet meals daily.

Many people are surprised to learn on their first trip how much fish cleaning and processing can cost. This might be discussed in the websites to help the customer be better prepared. I have seen some customers not tip as they feel the fish cleaning bill should make you happy. Processing cost is a 3rd party, so that is up to the customer.

I have been very impressed with the service provided by the crew of these boats, and on all of them tipping was discussed by many passengers prior to paying. Most were leaving a tip smaller than crew members would like. After multiple days of great fishing and service I know several left $30-50 total. Ouch!

BajaNomads - The 3 boats I mentioned travel with 24 to 35 passengers on each boat, fewer on some longer range trips.

DianaT - 3-25-2008 at 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iflyfish

It is a real set up to play games with money when people are not clear of their expectations. Lack of clarity is a set up for games about money.

Gratuity not included. Business people who let people know this are
ebeing clear about their needs, if they don't then they are responsible for people not fulfilling their expectations. The variety of responses and lack of clarity are evidence of this from my perspective.

Iflyfish

Very well said. We always appreciate clarity and really appreciate simple little signs like gratuity not included, or gratuity appreciated, it makes the expectations very clear and then we can take it from there. If expectations are not clear, it leaves people to become mindreaders.

John and Diane

vandenberg - 3-25-2008 at 10:42 AM

Quote:

Something like:

"NO GRATUITIES UNDER 30% ACCEPTED !!!" :?:

Did I do that??!!!

smlslikfish - 3-25-2008 at 11:20 AM

Let me be clear, I do not know Shari/Juan, never met them. Juan just happened to be the guy I chose to illustrate a point that is near and dear to me. I spent several summers as a deckhand in So Cal on a boat that prided itself on it's service to customers. My son is currently employed on that same boat. It is the toughest job I've ever done in 30 years in the workforce. The average passenger has NO idea of the effort it takes to provide them with a quality/pleasant experience. (see Pascuale' post) Now do it with a smile on your face and a pleasant helpful attitude. Very few of us do it for any other reason than we love to fish. All the other comparisons aside, some jobs it has always been customary to tip. This is one of them. In Juan's case he's charging $ 100. Subtract the cost/ effort of procuring fuel/oil, factor in cost of boat/motor/ maintenance/ launch vehicle. He's giving all of you a goodguy price. It seems to me that the least you all could do is let him know it's appreciated. (in gringo terms that means TIP GENEROUSLY)........ GOD I LOVE THIS PLACE!!

Diver - 3-25-2008 at 11:40 AM

Now that you are out-of-the-closet smellyfish, it sure doesn't seem fair to pull Juan and Shari into your little rant. They are good folks that are trying to adapt to their growing gringo clientel.
Juan is a gentleman who would never ask for a tip and enjoys fishing over money. Without his knowledge of where and when to fish, most of his clients would have got bubkas.

To Pascaul also;
I have worked as crew on party boats when I was younger and expected less $ from life. I always enjoyed being on the water and the clients were just part of the day - often a good part. Tips were good when they were good; more like an unexpected bonus. Seems like times have changed.
.

[Edited on 3-25-2008 by Diver]

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