BajaNomad - Plans for Santa Rosaliita Marina

Plans for Santa Rosaliita Marina

bajajudy - 3-27-2008 at 09:36 AM

http://www.bclandacquisitions.com/santarosalita.html

This was an ad on another website I was visiting. Now I see it here but who knows if it will be there for you all, so I posted the link

Hook - 3-27-2008 at 10:23 AM

Pretty funny..........a hoist that doesnt reach the water. Cant believe they'd show that.

Still, that area bears watching.

Roberto - 3-27-2008 at 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
Pretty funny..........a hoist that doesnt reach the water. Cant believe they'd show that.

Still, that area bears watching.

Looks like it'll reach the water in this shot:

It's been a few years (3+) since I was last there, and they are definitely moving forward. Looks to me like this marina WILL be completed. My guess is that it'll be much like the Singlar-managed facility at Puerto Escondido - costs and all. And boaters from SoCal will use it!

Bob H - 3-27-2008 at 11:07 AM

Last time we were there - about three or four years ago, the wind was blowing so hard I could hardly open the door in my truck. If we both opened the doors at the same time, everything would blow out! The wind can really blow hard in this area of Baja. It was horrible. But, I guess the good days would be nice also.
Bob H

Hook - 3-27-2008 at 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
Pretty funny..........a hoist that doesnt reach the water. Cant believe they'd show that.

Still, that area bears watching.

Looks like it'll reach the water in this shot:

Are the tides really that significant in that area? I doubt it.

To provide the depth need for a vessel that might use that hoist (especially fixed keel sailboats), there will have to be significant dredging around that hoist.

Roberto - 3-27-2008 at 11:29 AM

Oh, you're referring to dredging? That's a whole different discussion.

I've been there where the sand, which gets swept in by wave action, almost filled the harbor. :lol:

Dredging will be a constant issue at that marina. They could alleviate it by building a dogleg breakwater on the outside, but even that won't solve the problem completely.

Hoists like that can be used to lift all kinds of boats and put them in dry storage, or the yard, or whatever, but I'm more than certain that you know that. It's a decent size one, too.

Still and all, I truly believe that marina will see use. All in Mexican time, of course.

BMG - 3-27-2008 at 11:50 AM

Dredging? Looking at this photo it looks like the lift goes out over concrete!

Capt. George - 3-27-2008 at 12:17 PM

Maybe their gonna trade the lift for a helicopter.

wadda joke!

wilderone - 3-27-2008 at 02:04 PM

He could at least spell the name of the town correctly. His photo of the "surf camp" looks like drug dealer pow wow. See any surfboards? Everyone in town trucks in their water via barrel. Desal plant - hmmm - who's gonna pay for that? Maintain it?
Boaters from So. Cal. will use it? So. Cal. boaters don't even go to Catalina, much less SOUTH, hoist out of a marina, drive a couple hundred miles trailering their precious boat, then off-load into the Gulf of California, AND THEN WHAT? Back again? Few boaters from anywhere will do that. Why would they? You'd have to be very wealthy and have plenty of free time to be able to do this in the first place; and if that were so, why would you do it this way? This has been talked about to death already.

Roberto - 3-27-2008 at 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
Boaters from So. Cal. will use it? So. Cal. boaters don't even go to Catalina, much less SOUTH, hoist out of a marina, drive a couple hundred miles trailering their precious boat, then off-load into the Gulf of California, AND THEN WHAT?

You're going off the deep end. I'm not talking about the Escalera, just the marina. If it's finished (and I'm betting it will be), it WILL be used. There are plenty of boaters in So. Cal (I'm one of them) that would love to have a marina in that area to use as a base. Even trailerboaters will launch from there and use it as a base. It opens up a great fishing area that is not only available with boats that have enough range to reach Bahia Tortugas from Ensenada. This would cut that down significantly. Up until a few years ago, it was even money in my mind, but seeing where they are it will be done ... because, and whether it makes sense or not, and economically it would be hard to make the case for it.

The entire grandiose Escalera plan is another thing entirely and not what I was referring to.

Osprey - 3-27-2008 at 06:00 PM

Roberto, and you're drowning in the shallows: How can you speak to the use of this little marina without talking about dredging or Mexico's plan (under whatever new and changing name) to entice U.S. boaters to come down and across or down and around to spend money on this peninsula or Mexico's west coast? You can't. The sand will either fill it up or it won't. Small trailered boats might stop there if they can use it but it will never be used as the plan envisioned: to move yachts on big trucks to BOLA so it is destined, IMHO to become a boat ramp for tin boats -- it will have a Mexican 7-11 and, of course, a cyber cafe.

Roberto - 3-27-2008 at 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
Roberto, and you're drowning in the shallows:

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
How can you speak to the use of this little marina without talking about dredging or Mexico's plan

Why can't I? It's not religion, it's a friggin' marina for chrissakes. If the marina is built, it WILL be used.

[Edited on 3-28-2008 by Roberto]

Osprey - 3-27-2008 at 07:11 PM

Roberto, Sorry, I get it, you wanted to tell us it would be used. It was all that other gobbledegoop about the place that threw me off. When you start out telling our distinquished members they have gone off the deep end you have little chance of getting our complete attention. Next time at the keyboard think before you type.

Roberto - 3-27-2008 at 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
When you start out telling our distinquished members they have gone off the deep end you have little chance of getting our complete attention. Next time at the keyboard think before you type.

I do. And, I mean what I say. Pretty presumptious of you to say that what you don't agree with must be the result of not thinking things through, wouldn't you say? Not to mention patronizing, oh wise one. :rolleyes:

Wilderone is clearly off the deep end on this one, as shown in the past. Sorry if that offends you or reduces my audience.

[Edited on 3-28-2008 by Roberto]

Crusoe - 3-27-2008 at 07:18 PM

Boys.........The lift appears to be a 35 ton Travel Lift. On the port side of the picture of the lift in the blue "box" there should be housed a 50h.p. diesel motor. Through transmission gears the lift operator is able to drive out on the concrete and lower slings down under awaiting vessels,and raise them up and drive off to place them on land or trailers to be transported other places. Easy and predictable business in most spots. Not here!! There will have to be an onsite continuual dredge operating to deal with the wind driven sand events that will constantly fill this harbor. This expense alone will take any and all profits from the haulout facility. Then it will be iffy for them to keep up on the maintenance of the lift. When you start to picking up 10 to 20 tons with marginaly maintained gear you run substancel risks. It is always very very windy here most of the time too. Was just a bad location choice for their development. ++C++

Roberto - 3-27-2008 at 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crusoe
Not here!! There will have to be an onsite continuual dredge operating to deal with the wind driven sand events that will constantly fill this harbor. This expense alone will take any and all profits from the haulout facility.

Quote:

Originally posted by Crusoe
Was just a bad location choice for their development. ++C++

All true, and thanks for the education on the Travelift. BUT, this operation is run by the MEXICAN GOVERNMENT. It was clear from early on that sand filling up this man made harbor was going to be an issue. If you look at the prevailing wind and seas, and see how the breakwaters have been built and located, it's pretty clear what will happen. Several times I have been there, the entire marina was filled with sand, with at most 1-5" water in a few spots. Has this stopped them? Has this caused rethinking of the project? Why would anyone think this would change now? It's not like the money is coming out of their pockets.

[Edited on 3-28-2008 by Roberto]

Mexitron - 3-27-2008 at 07:27 PM

I wonder why they didn't build the breakwater of the point, giving them a bigger harbor and probably a better dynamic for the sand problem. Not that I'm sad they decided not to, what with the surfing.....

Roberto - 3-27-2008 at 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexitron
I wonder why they didn't build the breakwater of the point, giving them a bigger harbor and probably a better dynamic for the sand problem. Not that I'm sad they decided not to, what with the surfing.....

The wonders of centrally managed projects and economies ....

bajalera - 3-27-2008 at 10:32 PM

We've been there a couple of times recently, and the enameled signs posted along the road into town don't spell the name right, either.

The road to town has been widened and is now paved all the way to the marina. It turns to the right on nearing town, continues for a ways, and then descends to the marina area.

Where that road turns right, the old dirt road still hangs a left and winds down into town as it always did, and is still unpaved--giving the impression that there's more concern for tourists than for residents [big surprise!].

Steve talked with some local people, who said they had been told that the government would build houses for them--all looking alike--and all they had to do was sign an agreement. Most didn't want to sign.

What has always surprised me is the dinky size of that marina--doesn't look like it'll accommodate many boats, unless they're the kind powered with oars.

805gregg - 3-28-2008 at 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
He could at least spell the name of the town correctly. His photo of the "surf camp" looks like drug dealer pow wow. See any surfboards? Everyone in town trucks in their water via barrel. Desal plant - hmmm - who's gonna pay for that? Maintain it?
Boaters from So. Cal. will use it? So. Cal. boaters don't even go to Catalina, much less SOUTH, hoist out of a marina, drive a couple hundred miles trailering their precious boat, then off-load into the Gulf of California, AND THEN WHAT? Back again? Few boaters from anywhere will do that. Why would they? You'd have to be very wealthy and have plenty of free time to be able to do this in the first place; and if that were so, why would you do it this way? This has been talked about to death already.

What pictures of a surf camp, I keep going back but can't seem to find them.

wilderone - 3-28-2008 at 09:33 AM

It's one of the photos when you open the David Tramp site. "click to see surf camp" - then there are photos of Los Alejandros Surf camp - and note the "surf" - flat bay. And very shallow - as I experienced when camped there a couple years ago.

"BUT, this operation is run by the MEXICAN GOVERNMENT. It was clear from early on that sand filling up this man made harbor was going to be an issue. If you look at the prevailing wind and seas, and see how the breakwaters have been built and located, it's pretty clear what will happen. Several times I have been there, the entire marina was filled with sand, with at most 1-5" water in a few spots. Has this stopped them? Has this caused rethinking of the project? Why would anyone think this would change now?"

You speak with forked tongue. Indeed - why would anyone think the project would be successful when it so far, has not. I would be willing to bet that some government project supervisor's family lives there and is driving a new truck. And as far as you're concerned, the marina IS finished - so amigo, go boat on down there. Bring a tent. And water.

Hook - 3-28-2008 at 09:41 AM

Really, my comments about the lift operating over sand was just to say "what a stupid photo to place on a website promoting the marina". I have no doubt that ongoing dredging can solve the problem.

But what a photo to use........

Roberto - 3-28-2008 at 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
You speak with forked tongue.

I really don't get your hostility on this. I realize you're against the project. In many ways I am too. But just because my opinion of what has happened is different from yours makes me a liar????? This is religion for you, but nor for me.

Tiomiguel - 3-29-2008 at 06:41 PM

Interesting project, I am a sailor on the Great Lakes, and have been around a bit on a boat. A little strange to have such a nice lift there to lift huge boats. Why they would want it there is beyond me. Few would ever risk big sailboats on the main highway in Baja as aby boat over 30 normally has a beam of 11 feet plus. Imagine that on the Baja highway with no shoulders. So Cal boaters go one way down Baja due to prevailing winds being so heavy, so most head down on their way somewhere, not too many like to go there and back and certainly would not go for periods less than a week. Once they get there, there is nothing there attracting boaters, no islands, no cruising grounds, no food or drink.

The US army Corp of Engineers built similar harbours of refuge on the great lakes, Lake Huron etc. No tides, so pretty easy, except they too did not figure for the water levels going down. So now many of these beautiful expensive harbours are only deep enough for outboard motor boats no more than about 25 feet long.

We were recently in the Bahamas, Georgetown where Four Seasons Hotel and Marina is. We spent one night there on our friends sailboat while visiting down there. It to was pretty funny, huge yachts, 60 to 195 feet including last year, Tiger Woods yacht. Guess what, the surge when teh wind blows from the East makes it impossible to get into or out of and makes the harbour very uncomfortable. So far they have spent millions on it and its packed when the wind is from the right direction guaranteed for a few days. Empty the rest of the time. This expensive place does not even have a travel lift as they would have no use for it. http://www.emeraldbayresort.com/marina.html

You know what this means, nobody seems to be able to get the harbour of refuge type of marina right so Mexico is not alone in this.

Gadget - 3-29-2008 at 06:49 PM

Its a great story. :no:

A worthless marina :mad:

And one of the longest point waves in the west cut down to 1/3 if that :fire:

Whaaa - There Are Bears in Baja Sur?

Gypsy Jan - 3-29-2008 at 06:59 PM

:bounce:

DianaT - 3-29-2008 at 07:37 PM

I love cameras--

A couple of recent pictures of the town---look a lot different than the ones on their site. :lol:

Don't get me wrong, I think it is a really nice spot, but pictures don't always tell the whole story.

I did, however, choke on those prices considering where we are.

Diane

[Edited on 3-30-2008 by jdtrotter]

Santa Rosalillita Thing/ July, 2007

David K - 3-30-2008 at 09:53 AM

From the road dropping down to the harbor...

707 104r.JPG - 48kB

and up closer...

David K - 3-30-2008 at 09:54 AM

707 106r.JPG - 47kB

David K - 3-30-2008 at 09:59 AM

Driving south from the town of Santa Rosalillita on the coastal road to Punta Rosarito (The Wall), we passed the town bird sanctuary!

707 107r.JPG - 45kB

wilderone - 3-31-2008 at 09:33 AM

Roberto: not a liar - but duplicitous. First you say it will be built, it will be used, but you base that on a perceived basis of fact that since the Mexican government is behind the project, it will be successful - in spite of several important facts that you points out which will obviously outweigh any "Mexican government" oversight for success.

And before you cast any further stones at my "religion," I am not against a little marina at Sta Rosalillita at all. A little hotel, a couple little fish taco shops; a little water purification store, a gravel road to the beach, a trinket shop, a well run town dump, some panga rentals, a launch ramp -- but it's been - what - 6 years now? Still an idiotic project, with little progress. The Mexican Government consistently tries to make the tail wag the dog.

Not to mention that the currents, swells, wind, hurricane season, insurance coverage during hurricane season for boaters, the Baja Bash northern route, limiting boaters; and if you want more reasons why it will fail, I can provide at least 25 more.
But as I also pointed out, since you don’t need a hoist, or even a dock (use a couple anchors inside the “marina” – go ahead – it’s all yours – beat the rush.

Roberto - 3-31-2008 at 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
Roberto: not a liar - but duplicitous. First you say it will be built, it will be used, but you base that on a perceived basis of fact that since the Mexican government is behind the project, it will be successful - in spite of several important facts that you points out which will obviously outweigh any "Mexican government" oversight for success.

You are completely misunderstanding what I am saying, I will try to explain it, but first let me ask the obvious question - why would I want to be duplicitous (which means deceptive)??? Do you think I'm a paid agent of FONATUR? That I have some interest to mislead people into believing things about this place?

I am saying that IMO the project is poorly designed and conceived, but given that it's run by the Mexican Government, that will not be a factor in whether it will move forward.

Success? What is success in this, and other similar projects in Mexico?

I am also saying that if it is completed (and I think it will, see above) it will be used. I, for one, will use it, as I know many other SoCal fishin' fools will also, as it is reachable by smaller boats and opens up a beautiful area. Whether that equates to success or not I don't know, but I'm guessing that it will never see the traffic originally planned for it. :rolleyes:

That's the way I see it, and that's why I said what I said. Now where is the deception here?

[Edited on 3-31-2008 by Roberto]

Mexitron - 3-31-2008 at 04:59 PM

In one of DK's photos it looks like dunes are forming against the breakwater--looks like they may have to deal with those coming over the top too...

Gadget - 4-1-2008 at 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexitron
In one of DK's photos it looks like dunes are forming against the breakwater--looks like they may have to deal with those coming over the top too...

It is indeed amazing. In that photo the sand at the land end of the jetty used to be water. That is where, on just the right swell, you could end your ride from all the way up the point, nearly 3/4 of a mile from take off. Now there is nearly 1/2 a mile of sand that has piled up ruining the wave forever.

I believe it will over top the jetty also. Punta Santa Rosalallita has one of the most dynamic long shore currents and sand movement systems of almost any place I have ever seen. I baffles me that educated minds could have considered this location a viable marina site. :?:

Roberto - 4-1-2008 at 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gadget
I baffles me that educated minds could have considered this location a viable marina site. :?:

I remember reading in the original Escalera documents that one of the reasons for Santa Rosalillita being selected was that it protected from southern swells (i.e. hurricanes) bu the Vizcaino peninsula and Isla Cedros.

Still a lot of fetch from the horn to the harbor, but I'm not a Mexican marina planner, obviously.

David K - 4-1-2008 at 03:29 PM

The former salt loading harbor area at Laguna Guerrero Negro would have made an excellent location for a small boat harbor, I would think? But, that would have added many more miles of 'land ferry' travel to bring yachts across to L.A. Bay than Santa Rosalillita... defeating the use of the narrowest part of central Baja for that scheme.

Crusoe - 4-1-2008 at 06:30 PM

Having visted the area maybe 15 to 20 times from 1975 to 1990 in search of waves to surf kayack and camp on the remote beaches both north and south of the village we came to some hard decisions having never bieng able to figure out the wind patterns.Going north to Punta Rocasa it seemed to hardly ever blow as strong.There is a huge seal colony just north of Punta Adeilaida and not as consistantly windy. We thought that the nw currents were stronger off that point and hence more feed for the seals. A nice long surf break that was fun when it was not blowing like stink and the tides were right to go out. The months of march and april were almost always much stronger wind events and more often. Hence it is now a very popular spot for windsurfers. Was last there 3 yers ago and was a rumor of Fonutur was to build a huge upscale RV park fisherman could tow there boats there to launch and camp in there rv's. A nice spot when its calm. ++C++

Wiles - 4-1-2008 at 07:24 PM

David,

The mouth of Guerrero Negro Lagoon would not be ideal either. Sand bars, extreme tidal current, and very narrow entrance makes for a hazardous crossing for small vessels. Keeping the mouth of the lagoon open for the salt barges and crew/supply boats was always a big challenge for the salt company (according to Francisco Munoz). Years ago (mid to late 70's) there were hundreds of whales wintering in the lagoon. When the salt co. quit using the lagoon, the sand bars filled in and the in seasonal whale count there went from the hundreds at peak to just a handfull.

Roberto - 4-1-2008 at 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wiles
David,

The mouth of Guerrero Negro Lagoon would not be ideal either. Sand bars, extreme tidal current, and very narrow entrance makes for a hazardous crossing for small vessels. Keeping the mouth of the lagoon open for the salt barges and crew/supply boats was always a big challenge for the salt company (according to Francisco Munoz). Years ago (mid to late 70's) there were hundreds of whales wintering in the lagoon. When the salt co. quit using the lagoon, the sand bars filled in and the in seasonal whale count there went from the hundreds at peak to just a handfull.

And, to top it off, it's a protected area, which conflicts with a Marina.

Gadget - 4-2-2008 at 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

Quote:

And, to top it off, it's a protected area, which conflicts with a Marina.

Hmmm, a bunch of salt and mud flats protected, and the beautiful estuary and river mouth at San Jose just got dozed under for a......Marina :?:

Me thinks there's something screwy here.

Roberto - 4-2-2008 at 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gadget
Me thinks there's something screwy here.

No doubt about it.

Hook - 4-2-2008 at 01:30 PM

Going "green" can sometimes have a whole new meaning in Mexico.

Crusoe - 4-2-2008 at 07:37 PM

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!!... Its all about location-location-location...Comparing Santa Rosliita to San Jose is the same as comparing Nome, Alaska to San Jose. Im in the mind set that I prefer seeing authentic Mexican junk spread about, instead of kiesh parlors and expensive spas. ++C++

mtgoat666 - 4-4-2008 at 04:16 PM

Quote:

I read it on the internet, so it must be wrong :lol:

Your statement re whale counts is wrong.
The hazards of small vessels crossing sand bars are mitigated by crossing during high tide and avoiding times of large waves/swells.

Wiles - 4-4-2008 at 06:58 PM

I am very confident regarding whale counts in the lagoon. The time frame is slightly off as it should read the early 80's.
I would be interested in looking at any data (personal or scientific) stating otherwise. Please share.

"sand bars are mitigated by crossing during high tide and avoiding times of large waves/swells."

Well yes.....in a perfect world. :biggrin:

What about the sailboat with a 6' keel entering on a 2' high tide?

So how long does the guy on the 24' skiff hang outside the lagoon entrance when it's blowing 30 knots and humping 6-8' ?

Sand bars love boats, so much so, that almost every sand bar in Baja has one or two boats parked right on them. :lol:

baja-chris - 4-26-2011 at 10:30 PM

Old thread but has anyone been there lately?

Are there any sort of accomodations there such as a hostel or hotel? Or a place to rent a fresh water shower?

larryC - 4-27-2011 at 06:50 AM

I was there about a year ago and it looked very much the same then as in the above photos.
Larry

mtgoat666 - 4-27-2011 at 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by baja-chris
Old thread but has anyone been there lately?

Are there any sort of accomodations there such as a hostel or hotel? Or a place to rent a fresh water shower?

only residents are a few fishermen, and you might see a few passing surfers (gateway to secret 7 sisters!)
the town is pretty dead, no reason to stay there.
marina is full of sand, and abandoned.

shari - 4-27-2011 at 07:50 AM

Beside the store on the beach side in the middle of the village is a little hotelito...cheap, clean and has lots of hot water...good bed and a view of the beach and ocean...you can see guys peeling off a cool wave that is the result of the marina breakwater...something good came out of the fiasco.

It is only like 10 mnutes off the highway and a great place to stop and spend the night if you cant make it to GN in daylight..very very quiet and pretty bay...there is a store but the restaurant isnt open any more but the hotel lady will make food for ya....I give the hotel a thumbs up!!!

and....they are honest...I left my laptop there...it was hiding behind a closed curtain when we checked out...and they had it saved for me...Juan's uncle picked it up...so say hey to tio Martin Arce when you are there.

wilderone - 4-27-2011 at 08:19 AM

Before you get to town is a turnoff to the beach, which has some very nice camping spots. Nice shallow beach for wading, swimming.