BajaNomad

Mexican wages

Lindalou - 4-10-2008 at 04:35 PM

I've been reading the board, and seen a couple of references to Mexican wages here. One person said $10 a day and another said maybe $20 for just work in general, not skilled labor. What do you pay$? This is not meant to start a flaming party about taking advantage of the Mexicans, it's just a question. Thank you :)

DENNIS - 4-10-2008 at 05:05 PM

The office where you live pays Gordo the maintenance man's helper 15 bucks per day. Out of that, he gets to pay two bucks for the micro.
Nice, huh.

sylens - 4-10-2008 at 05:49 PM

in our mexican neighborhood, the "association" (NOT recognizable as such, not at all like en el otro lado) pays the gardener who keeps the common areas clean and green 1000 pesos/week for 5 1/2 days of work. same pay for the guard who works 7pm - 7am riding around our colonia on his bicycle 6 nights/week.

Lindalou - 4-10-2008 at 06:10 PM

They are doing some physical labor, like connecting instant hot water heater and some gas lines to catalytic heaters(crawling around under the doublewide) and some weeding. They were also pouring cement but Rich worked right along with them.

Osprey - 4-10-2008 at 06:23 PM

What are you going to do with this information? Do you intend to average what posters pay to those who work for them? Why don't you ask yourself some questions? #1 "what do I think this work is worth to me, my equipment, my wellbeing?" That's the way a lot of us do it. Try it, unless you're just squeeky barateros, you'll know by the smiles or lack of them from your employees.

Lindalou - 4-10-2008 at 06:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
What are you going to do with this information? Do you intend to average what posters pay to those who work for them? Why don't you ask yourself some questions? #1 "what do I think this work is worth to me, my equipment, my wellbeing?" That's the way a lot of us do it. Try it, unless you're just squeeky barateros, you'll know by the smiles or lack of them from your employees.
We would love to pay them $100 a day if we didn't live on SS. They were very happy to see us back when we returned as they had not had but one or two small jobs since we had left. A lot depends on how much money we have as to how much we can pay.

vandenberg - 4-10-2008 at 06:49 PM

We have a gardener who comes for 5 hours once a week. Pay him 200 pesos. I haul off all the cuttings and debris in my old Suburban. We believe that's a fair wage. However we have people here, who are only here for short periods, many friends of mine, who think nothing of giving a guy $20.00 to wash their car, a 10 minute job, and worth $ 5.00 at the most. So, next time somebody has their car washed and by giving the guy $ 7 to 8.00, thinking to be generous, are surprised by being considered "baratos".
So, not too hasty Jorge. It's all relative and definitely subject to your financial situation.

Osprey - 4-11-2008 at 06:56 AM

Van in this town I consider it my job to overpay everyone when I have the funds -- that's to make up for all those piojosos who will not pay one puny centavo more than someone will accept to do the dirtiest, hardest labor you could imagine. It is all relative, that's why I do it.

DENNIS - 4-11-2008 at 07:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
Van in this town I consider it my job to overpay everyone when I have the funds -- that's to make up for all those piojosos who will not pay one puny centavo more than someone will accept to do the dirtiest, hardest labor you could imagine. It is all relative, that's why I do it.


All of this "Pay too much---Pay too little" stuff is nonsense if we would act as we do in the states and never hire a man to do a job without first establishing what the charge will be. Establishing a price after the work is done brings the negotiation into that gray zone of gratuities for service and we've already spent too much time with that topic.

Don Alley - 4-11-2008 at 08:10 AM

There are good, and bad, economic consequences when large numbers of more affluent foreigners move into an area.

Paying more than the customary wages may please the workers, but it tends to raise the overall price of services, pricing them out of the range of those local people who do not have the economic advantages the foreigners have. It also creates general inflationary pressures on goods as well as services.

We may have overpaid for some services. Ideally I would prefer to pay at close to a customary, local rate but with the rapid growth and resulting inflation that has already become a moving target.

David K - 4-11-2008 at 08:16 AM

Dennis is right, ask what the person wants for the job BEFORE he does it. Pay for the job, not the time he takes to do it... because anyone can work slower to milk more hours of pay.

If there is something unexpected that comes up requiring extra time, pay more... If the job was outstanding in quality, then tip generously.

Reward excellence!

Osprey - 4-11-2008 at 08:20 AM

Dennis, I heard a whole lot of that "Do what you did in the states" stuff when I first got here. Good thing I didn't listen. I often hire work done without a mention of wages, pay what I think the job warrants based on the end product. I ask the worker if it's enough. If he comes back for more work, and almost all have, I consider I paid enough or a little too much -- suits me fine and it ain't what I used to do somewhere else.

Lindalou - 4-11-2008 at 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
Dennis, I heard a whole lot of that "Do what you did in the states" stuff when I first got here. Good thing I didn't listen. I often hire work done without a mention of wages, pay what I think the job warrants based on the end product. I ask the worker if it's enough. If he comes back for more work, and almost all have, I consider I paid enough or a little too much -- suits me fine and it ain't what I used to do somewhere else.
I'm really glad to hear you have the money for that. I agree with Dennis, we got bids on work in the states, we never took the lowest one but we did take the one we could afford. It will be the same way here, if someone wants too much money we will get someone else that a gringo hasn't ruined yet with too much pay. If they don't over charge us we can use them more and longer. Rich does a lot of the work because that is what we can afford He is also almost 70 and it gets to be too much sometimes.

Marie-Rose - 4-11-2008 at 10:45 AM

We tend to pay as Dennis and Don suggest.
Our neighbors and caretakers often get paid more by way of special "treats" from occ'l shopping trips to Cabo or LaPaz.
We also realize that although we pay Maria a set amount every time she comes to clean... some days she is here for 2 hours and other days 4 hours. Same goes for the gardener... he gets a monthly rate... some weeks he shows up twice and other weeks we do not see him at all! :smug:

shari - 4-11-2008 at 10:50 AM

I disagree that if gringos pay too much it raises the prices for the locals...local workers know that their compadre doesn't have money to spare and if he needs work, he will work for the normal local wage...and I think it is fair if someone who has more...pays more...god knows they usually deserve it. Workers often ask us what to charge and I don't hesitate to tell them to raise their "normal" price a bit if I know the people can afford to pay a bit more. For example the fellow who carves gorgeous fish, whales, dolphins etc...out of bone...I told him he could charge a bit more to gringos for his precious work and so he ended up charging like 2 bucks more!!! ha...

oxxo - 4-11-2008 at 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Dennis is right, ask what the person wants for the job BEFORE he does it.


I have done that on several occassions - ask what the person wants - and have never received a direct answer. It is always, "whatever you want to pay, Senor." Consequently, feel I have always overpaid (closer to US wages), but I don't lose sleep over it.

Perhaps the best thing to do, particularly for people who live only on SS, is say, "I can afford to pay X for this job, would you like to do it?" That should take care of it.

I'll never forget the time I was eating at a restaurant in Los Cabos and was serenaded by a mariachi band. I told them I didn't want a song, but they sang anyway. Afterwards I gave them a tip anyway, one I thought was generous. The leader made a big deal out of it and called me a cheapskate. It was quite embarrassing since the place was packed and he made a scene. Never again! Next time, better not to pay at all than pay something that is considered an insult.

David K - 4-11-2008 at 01:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Dennis is right, ask what the person wants for the job BEFORE he does it.


I have done that on several occassions - ask what the person wants - and have never received a direct answer. It is always, "whatever you want to pay, Senor." Consequently, feel I have always overpaid (closer to US wages), but I don't lose sleep over it.

Perhaps the best thing to do, particularly for people who live only on SS, is say, "I can afford to pay X for this job, would you like to do it?" That should take care of it.



Well, then wait them out... be the boss. The first one to quote a price loses... Tell them you cannot hire them unless you know what they want to be paid.... Say goodbye... You won't wait long before you get a knock on the door.

Osprey - 4-11-2008 at 01:43 PM

David, would you be available for diplomatic public relations work in Southern Baja? We are a backward lot down here and could learn a lot from your management methods.

David K - 4-11-2008 at 01:58 PM

Nothing to be diplomatic about... You are seeking to have something done and are in the bidding process... How can you decide who to hire if no one person comes with a recommendation, except on price and your gut feeling about the man?

I work for many different people and they hire me because I was refered to them and they agree to my price estimate for the work. I tell them how much the system will cost to install... they are the boss who pays me. Why is that hard for gringos to do when hiring locals for some project in Baja?

Ask everyone who has had similar work performed for references.

1) Seek bids from all who are interested or all who were recommended.

2) Based on the person and the price, hire them to do the job.

3) Have the job detailed on paper so there is no mis-understanding or memory issues. Decide the payment details... Either a material deposit and balance at completion or progress payments, depending on the size of the job.

DianaT - 4-11-2008 at 03:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Nothing to be diplomatic about... You are seeking to have something done and are in the bidding process... How can you decide who to hire if no one person comes with a recommendation, except on price and your gut feeling about the man?

I work for many different people and they hire me because I was refered to them and they agree to my price estimate for the work. I tell them how much the system will cost to install... they are the boss who pays me. Why is that hard for gringos to do when hiring locals for some project in Baja?

Ask everyone who has had similar work performed for references.

1) Seek bids from all who are interested or all who were recommended.

2) Based on the person and the price, hire them to do the job.

3) Have the job detailed on paper so there is no mis-understanding or memory issues. Decide the payment details... Either a material deposit and balance at completion or progress payments, depending on the size of the job.


Great advice. Next time we hire someone to help us move dirt and or paint along side us, we will make sure we get 3 bids and make sure these workers all submit it in writing. I don't think the question was about contractors, or did I not read it carefully. :rolleyes:

Dang, we have someone right now watering our plants while we are gone and we have nothing in writing. Boy, we did it all wrong. She did not set the price, we suggested a price and we only talked to the one person. Guess we better check with all the other property caretakers next time. :lol:

Diane

Bob and Susan - 4-11-2008 at 03:11 PM

obviously you DO NOT work in baja!!!
your advice is for the USA!!!

if you embarrass someone here in baja you may have no one work for you EVER!!!

these towns are small and
everyone knows you are and what you do and how you pay

the next time you want workers you'll pay dearly and be happy to get the workers

Roberto - 4-11-2008 at 03:20 PM

David, when have you have hired workers in Baja?

[Edited on 4-11-2008 by Roberto]

Sharksbaja - 4-11-2008 at 03:35 PM

Quote:

It will be the same way here, if someone wants too much money we will get someone else that a gringo hasn't ruined yet with too much pay


Just like California! Classic! :rolleyes:

Lindalou - 4-11-2008 at 04:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Quote:

It will be the same way here, if someone wants too much money we will get someone else that a gringo hasn't ruined yet with too much pay


Just like California! Classic! :rolleyes:
What ever that means? :)

David K - 4-11-2008 at 04:17 PM

Oh forgive me for thinking this was a public forum seeking viewpoints and answers... LOL

If someone is having a heartache over paying a guy ten bucks to water their plants, I worry for them!

The question was work in general and it got into who should speak first when it comes to how much to pay... I only provided my side as a self employed businessman who has done okay for his 50 years on this planet.

RichnLinda was just seeking some feedback and not a "flaming party"... the usuals here just can't hold back... again!:rolleyes:

Sad that common sense is so lacking and that blaming others is all that is taught in the U.S. :no:

Can a thread ever get posted where different Nomads contribute their knowledge or opinions... so that all replies can be compared... without the couple Nomads jumping in to act like smart burros?

[Edited on 4-11-2008 by David K]

rts551 - 4-11-2008 at 04:21 PM

Man, I think I will just keep doing what I was doing in getting good workers. We have instant experts that only vacation in Baja. We have people who can't afford baja wages. and then we have Robinetta Hood who takes from the rich and gives th the poor. Whew, Life is tough.

DENNIS - 4-11-2008 at 04:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
I ask the worker if it's enough.


Jorge...Why would you put him through that? It makes him decide his worth with variables such as does he like you, is there more work here, what is this guy worth, etc..
It's time we did our part to help the craftsmen act as professionals and know what their work is worth and charge accordingly. It's the beauty of competition and the most qualified will compete for the jobs. Why pay a man twice what the job is worth just because you can? That's generous but, it's charity.
For those of you who think I squeeze the local worker for his blood, let me tell you. I hire a man, a friend, who is scheduled to work four hours each morning five days per week. This has been going on for over two years and when he gets the call to do his summer job of running a sport boat, I pay him anyway. I pay him 150 bucks for the five half days. He's Vicente the mechanic who schedules his wrenching activities from noon on. It works for him and it works for me but, we don't look each other eye to eye, me with my wallet and him with his cultural need to please and come up with wages. We both know.

I believe it's demeaning for a worker when a Gringo, or anykind of boss stands in front of him and says, "How much should I pay you."

Set the price before the act and save the mans dignity. Your as well if one can understand this. [ not you Jorge. I know you have class ]

Lindalou - 4-11-2008 at 04:29 PM

Yes, it's especially tough getting an answer. I do know now why only a couple of brave people almost told me what they pay. They don't want to get flamed, for either too much or too little. Well, I guess we'll just pay what ever they accept and leave it at that.

DENNIS - 4-11-2008 at 04:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RichnLinda
Yes, it's especially tough getting an answer. I do know now why only a couple of brave people almost told me what they pay. They don't want to get flamed, for either too much or too little. Well, I guess we'll just pay what ever they accept and leave it at that.


Linda..... Establish the price first and pay that.

Diver - 4-11-2008 at 04:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RichnLinda
.... What do you pay$? ...


Above is the orginal question that was posed. It OBVIOUSLY is asked of those who have actually lived in Baja and have actually hired local labor.
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Oh forgive me for thinking this was a public forum seeking viewpoints and answers... LOL

If someone is having a heartache over paying a guy ten bucks to water their plants, I worry for them!

The question was work in general and it got into who should speak first when it comes to how much to pay... I only provided my side as a self employed businessman who has done okay for his 50 years on this planet.

RichnLinda was just seeking some feedback and not a "flaming party"... the usuals here just can't hold back... again!:rolleyes:

Sad that common sense is so lacking and that blaming others is all that is taught in the U.S. :no:

Can a thread ever get posted where different Nomads contribute their knowledge or opinions... so that all replies can be compared... without the couple Nomads jumping in to act like smart burros?

[Edited on 4-11-2008 by David K]


Here is DK again adding an unrequested response and then taking offense, then attacking in his defense and name calling. Seems the names should be on the other foot.
Grow up DK - it's not always someone else's fault dude - it's your's !
.

rts551 - 4-11-2008 at 04:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Oh forgive me for thinking this was a public forum seeking viewpoints and answers... LOL

If someone is having a heartache over paying a guy ten bucks to water their plants, I worry for them!

The question was work in general and it got into who should speak first when it comes to how much to pay... I only provided my side as a self employed businessman who has done okay for his 50 years on this planet.

RichnLinda was just seeking some feedback and not a "flaming party"... the usuals here just can't hold back... again!:rolleyes:

Sad that common sense is so lacking and that blaming others is all that is taught in the U.S. :no:

Can a thread ever get posted where different Nomads contribute their knowledge or opinions... so that all replies can be compared... without the couple Nomads jumping in to act like smart burros?
[Edited on 4-11-2008 by David K]



Would you like a little cheese to go with that wine David?

David K - 4-11-2008 at 04:37 PM

What is so hard about reading various answers and opinions without making it personal??? :rolleyes:

If RichnLinda didn't want to hear from ALL Nomads, then they could have u2u'd or emailed the question... r i g h t ???

Diver - 4-11-2008 at 04:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
What is so hard about reading various answers and opinions without making it personal??? :rolleyes:

If RichnLinda didn't want to hear from ALL Nomads, then they could have u2u'd or emailed the question... r i g h t ???



Well, what is the problem with keeping your UN-requested and UN-qualified responses to yourself ? And why is it that you always seem to be the one who makes it "personal" and then cries that you have been wronged ?

WRONG: the question was not posed of everyone with an opinion, it was posed to those who had experience hiring local labor.

No one started this dialogue but you;
Dtrotter is not a "smart burro" and simply offered her differring and more knowledgeable opinion.

Roberto, although he can be abrasive at times, simply asked you a valid question.

So who started the "personal" and name calling ?

It is rare that I pick on anyone on this board but you have a way of peeing people off. Did you ever think that since it happens to you more than ANYONE else, it might be something YOU do ? Oh nevermind....
.

Lindalou - 4-11-2008 at 04:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by RichnLinda
Yes, it's especially tough getting an answer. I do know now why only a couple of brave people almost told me what they pay. They don't want to get flamed, for either too much or too little. Well, I guess we'll just pay what ever they accept and leave it at that.


Linda..... Establish the price first and pay that.
Thanks Dennis, was just trying to establish a ball park figure, but...........

DENNIS - 4-11-2008 at 05:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RichnLinda
Thanks Dennis, was just trying to establish a ball park figure, but...........


You'll know it when you hear it. It's those who don't know what end of a hammer to hold who are caught up in this stuff. That's not Rich, or you.

DianaT - 4-11-2008 at 05:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RichnLinda
Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Quote:

It will be the same way here, if someone wants too much money we will get someone else that a gringo hasn't ruined yet with too much pay


Just like California! Classic! :rolleyes:
What ever that means? :)


Linda,
Wages in Baja are very different in different parts of Baja so your best advice is from those who live in your area. Even with that and even if you set a price before work begins, it will still vary as to what you will want to pay them in the end.

We also find it very different if we are using a contractor or the workers directly. Direct wokers we always feed, help with buying tools, tip etc. It is all so situational---no one answer.

I will say, however, that I am surprised that you did not see that the comment quoted above could be seen as very demeaning toward Mexicans---I imagine that you did not mean it that way, but that is the way it reads.

Diane

[Edited on 4-12-2008 by jdtrotter]

David K - 4-11-2008 at 05:41 PM

Okay Diver, I must be wrong and asking an installer how much a job will cost should never be done... ???:lol::wow:

I just think Dennis had a valid point and was confirming that in the real world of service work, the cost is established BEFORE the work begins... then both parties get what they wanted!

No Roberto, I have only traveled in Baja for fun and exploration... not established property there as you have... so, why didn't you offer some help to RichnLinda instead of only jumping in here to question me?

I do know what people are paid in Baja because I have a friend who owns several businesses in Mexico, and it has been discussed... and you can believe me when I say that the cost of any job is negotiated BEFORE the job starts... but, again... what do I know?:lol::lol::smug:

vandenberg - 4-11-2008 at 06:04 PM

Quote:
[but, again... what do I know?:lol::lol::smug:



Now you got it.:biggrin::biggrin:

Roberto - 4-11-2008 at 07:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
No Roberto, I have only traveled in Baja for fun and exploration... not established property there as you have...


... and still have, by the way.

So, you MIGHT consider the option of not offering opinions on something you have (admittedly) NO experience in.

Don't turn this into "here we go again, people bashing me, and not offering anything". Since you are spouting off about something you know nothing about, what exactly are YOU offering? :rolleyes:

rts551 - 4-11-2008 at 07:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K


No xxxxxxx, I have only traveled in Baja for fun and exploration... not established property there as you have... so, why didn't you offer some help to RichnLinda instead of only jumping in here to question me?

ns... but, again... what do I know?:lol::lol::smug:


Now David lets not get personal... Oh whoops, only you are allowed to do that.

Roberto - 4-11-2008 at 07:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Diver
Roberto, although he can be abrasive at times, simply asked you a valid question.


Who, me? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

NOW you're getting personal Diver. I think I'm going to post three pages explaining what you said, what I said, why you're picking on me with that comment, asking what you are contributing, and including a couple of dozen pictures of my truck in Baja. So there! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Roberto - 4-11-2008 at 07:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Diver
It is rare that I pick on anyone on this board but you have a way of ******* people off. Did you ever think that since it happens to you more than ANYONE else, it might be something YOU do ? Oh nevermind....
.


Classic. :lol::lol:

Roberto - 4-11-2008 at 07:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RichnLinda
Thanks Dennis, was just trying to establish a ball park figure, but...........


It's going to be just about impossible to establish a ball park figure by asking questions on this board. The best you will be able to do is get a feeling for the approach to getting that figure for the place YOU need the work done. These things vary widely depending on the location and the work. For example the cost of a mason in San Felipe will be very different that in Bahia de Los Angeles or La Paz or La Purisima. Your best bet is to establish relationships with the folks who are local to your area, and inquire about the cost. Find out who specializes in what, make that fit into your goals. The first rule is that there are no hard and fast rules, except perhaps:

NEVER pay for the work ahead of time, unless you have a relationship (and I mean a real relationship) with the person who is going to perform the work. Long discussion here, but trust me on this one.

Good luck.

DENNIS - 4-11-2008 at 08:00 PM

Wouldn't it be so much easier if there was a dedicated "Crap on DK" forum? No particular topic would be required or any reason at all for that matter. When the urge hits, just turn on the computer, go to that "Crap on DK" place and unload to your hearts content, wipe...wash and jump to another forum and tell everybody all you know about burritos in Baja.

rts551 - 4-11-2008 at 08:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Wouldn't it be so much easier if there was a dedicated "Crap on DK" forum? No particular topic would be required or any reason at all for that matter. When the urge hits, just turn on the computer, go to that "Crap on DK" place and unload to your hearts content, wipe...wash and jump to another forum and tell everybody all you know about burritos in Baja.


Yes Dennis I think you have a great idea, Except he (DK) would probably dominate the forum leaving the rest of us where we are today. He is of course an expert in all areas of Baja including "crap"

Alan - 4-11-2008 at 08:41 PM

I am very sorry to see this thread deteriorate to the point it has. I think that for those of us that love Baja this topic is a very frequent and continual concern. I have no concerns about overpaying and being considered an ignorant gringo as a result. Why should I? If I am ever taken advantage of I am confident that in time I will become aware of it and just chaulk it up to being trusting. I don't consider that to be the end of the world. There are a lot of worse things I can be accused of than trusting.

Of greater concern to me is the impact I may have on the local area. As I watch all of the dollars, francs, duetchmarks, whatever, pouring into Baja I am concerned over the inflation it creates in the local economy. Not everyone in Baja works in the service or construction industry as a result the revenue that keeps pouring in is not distributed equally. As I do my own shopping for whatever, I am simply overwhelmed by the costs of things when I compare the price of any given item to the typical income of a local family. I for one don't know how they manage.

DENNIS - 4-11-2008 at 08:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Alan
the typical income of a local family. I for one don't know how they manage.


For one thing, they don't have mortgages and car payments to run their lives. When they buy a house, they buy a house. Also, they arn't rabid consumers like we are.
By the way, I wonder what that typical income is here in Ensenada for instance. I know it will differ according to location.

Roberto - 4-11-2008 at 09:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
For one thing, they don't have mortgages and car payments to run their lives. When they buy a house, they buy a house.


That's true, but part of that is because consumer credit basically doesn't exist in Mexico.

DENNIS - 4-12-2008 at 06:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
That's true, but part of that is because consumer credit basically doesn't exist in Mexico.


It's difficult to generalize about the economic layers in Mexican society as I have done above. There is such disparity, they don't overlap. I see consumers in the larger stores using credit cards regularly and I could, and sometimes do, assume that most Mexicans have credit cards, which they don't. In those stores, I'm only seeing the privileged.
That said, credit institutions in Mexico are coming alive. Car financeing is available for new cars and houses can be bought on time. I won't even begin to talk about interest rates. I only know they're high.

It's not the tough

Bronco - 4-12-2008 at 06:47 AM

Part of my Baja experience is working with the people I hire. I learn the language enjoy the exercise and in most cases have a good time. I also set the pace and quality expected of most work, excluding excavating-ditch digging-for a wall etc. Years ago I spent the day learning the word “herramienta”. I just could not get it, trilling the r, anyway I finally just wrote it in the palm of my hand. My worker really got a laugh every time I needed a tool I had to look at my hand. My general rule is maestro pay is currently $25+ depending on the type of work, block, rock and general construction. Prepping for a slab, painting and gardening would be less. If it’s a major project the options is a bid and use someone with a recommendation. Before moving to Baja I never touched a hammer or would dream of doing electrical work, and my favorite roofing? Entonces, enjoy the experience.

BMG - 4-12-2008 at 07:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RichnLinda
I've been reading the board, and seen a couple of references to Mexican wages here. One person said $10 a day and another said maybe $20 for just work in general, not skilled labor. What do you pay$? This is not meant to start a flaming party about taking advantage of the Mexicans, it's just a question. Thank you :)


Rich & Linda,

We were also wondering about this when we bought our place in La Paz. We didn't want to underpay or overpay anyone. (Of course, when I was working there was never such a thing as being overpaid.) I think we ended up paying too much on some jobs and about right on others.

An example was some cement work for our laundry room. It was bare block with dirt floors. We needed it stuccoed and painted and a slab poured. We hired a local worker from the neighborhood based on the recommendation from a long time local resident of the area. Juan was very anxious to work for us and we had some reservations but asked him to bid the job. He came by the next day and asked when he could start working. We again asked for a bid. Then we watched him try to measure and figure out the area. Turned out he couldn't do the calculations. This raised our concerns regarding Juan even more.

Finally he said that he would charge M$50 per sq meter for the cement work. We agreed to hire him on a day-by-day basis since we were thinking it was very possible we would need to hire someone else to complete his work. I did all the measuring. Turns out he did a very good job. Was there early and worked late. It was hard work for what he charged us but he was eager to do more work after completing the laundry room.

Since we felt confident in Juan now, we decided to hire him to do the exterior painting. Here again, I did all the measuring and he said he wanted M$20 per sq meter. This was for 2 coats of paint. Juan again did a good job. We told him that we didn't want paint splashed all over the concrete around the house and the walls and he was very good about keeping it covered.

All the work was done in November and December. We paid Juan after work was completed all through the jobs, sometimes a small amount daily but most of the time at the end of the week. Christmas was a good time to give him a bonus for all the good work.

We supplied all cement, sand, rock, paint, brushes, rollers, a ladder and a few other items. Juan brought some tools, wheelbarrow, large water barrel, and even made his own scaffolding.

We would hire him again for a few small jobs if he was still around but he's moved to the mainland to dig clams.

Okay, waiting for the flames now.

Steve

Don Alley - 4-12-2008 at 07:44 AM

Well, I'm sorry I couldn't post a succinct reply like "Pay him $XX pesos a day/hour" but I don't think there is any standard or norm. There are differences from area to area. Also, like the presence of an observer skewing the observation, the growing mix of differing economies caused by our economic interaction has destabilized prices and wages to the point that I don't have a clue. Everyone has to wing it from job to job. Yes, I believe there are official government figures but I doubt they are up to date or adjusted to location.

A couple of days ago we drove from Loreto to Constitucion for a shopping trip. At the Ley Supermarket, I almost, almost bought a flat or two of Coca Cola (I'm an addict). I'd save some money. Then I thought, no, I'll continue to buy Coke at the local corner tienda; I often depend on it for a quick item or two and want it to stay in business.

Later, after returning to Loreto, I went to the tienda, bought a couple of Cokes, and the price was a peso higher than the day before. Oops, no good deed goes unpunished!:lol:

And time to raise pay to keep up with inflation!

Osprey - 4-12-2008 at 07:51 AM

Steve, Diane said it best -- she used the word Situational. Wish I would have thought of that! Every workman is different, every job is unique, each town and village is a different commecial culture. You did all the right things and things worked out for both you and the workman. I have seen gringos here who will not hire anyone unless they give a written estimate, have their own tools, come with references. Often those "do what you would do in the states" guys are left sitting on the patio with not a chance in hell of getting the work done in that little village. In our little town the gringos have to wait til one roofer/tile man/cementero finishes his current job before they even get a chance to talk to him about work on their homes - the good ones are well known, in demand, worth every cent and run for the hills when confronted by such arrogant newcomers who want it all done, now, their way, good, cheap and with a smile on the workman's face. There ain't no yellow pages for that kind of work down here.
While I'm at it I will venture a guess that nobody on this board will ever make a centavo of difference in the local economy no matter how much he overpays or underpays anyone for anything.

It's not that tough

Bronco - 4-12-2008 at 07:55 AM

Part of my Baja experience is working with the people I hire. I learn the language enjoy the exercise and in most cases have a good time. I also set the pace and quality expected of most work, excluding excavating-ditch digging-for a wall etc. Years ago I spent the day learning the word “herramienta”. I just could not get it, trilling the r, anyway I finally just wrote it in the palm of my hand. My worker really got a laugh every time I needed a tool I had to look at my hand. My general rule is maestro pay is currently $25+ depending on the type of work, block, rock and general construction. Prepping for a slab, painting and gardening would be less. If it’s a major project the options is a bid and use someone with a recommendation. Before moving to Baja I never touched a hammer or would dream of doing electrical work, and my favorite roofing? Entonces, enjoy the experience.

mulegemichael - 4-12-2008 at 08:16 AM

Just a short couple of years ago, the going rate for service folks down south, (la ribera), was $70 pesos a day...hard to believe..I'm sure it's more now. Just about everywhere that I've lived down there recently,(mulege), the hourly rate varies between $40-$50 pesos an hour for general laborers,gardeners,housecleaners,etc..more for skilled laborers. I think that pretty much addresses the original question.

durrelllrobert - 4-12-2008 at 08:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS

Establishing a price after the work is done brings the negotiation into that gray zone of gratuities for service and we've already spent too much time with that topic.


But when price is established in advance and the job is not done correctly you have a real challenging negotiation after the fact.:P

Lindalou - 4-12-2008 at 08:28 AM

Thank you or at least some of you for your ans. I don't know any more now then I did before I asked and got some rudeness that I think was uncalled for, for a simple question that has no answer.

I meant no disrespect towards any Mexicans, we have had good vibes with all we have met and/or worked with........Linda

oxxo - 4-12-2008 at 09:20 AM

I hired a Mexican contractor in the Los Cabos area to do some major work for me last year. He told me that he paid a common laborer 100 pesos per day. He said that in his line of work, there is no such thing as an hourly wage. Everyone is paid by the day, whether it is 4 hours of work or 10. In my case, his laborers were on the job about 6 hours per day. But, their day started when they left their casa. Their workday included travel on the local bus to and from the job site (my contractor also paid their bus fare and a stipend for lunch). He advised me that if I was not on site to unlock the premises that day and his workmen showed up and couldn't work, he still had to pay them a days wages.

He said he paid skilled laborers - electricians, plumbers, master masons - about twice the rate of day laborers. He said it just depended on how good they were, how long they had been with him, and how much he liked them.

If I hire someone to do a small job for me in the Los Cabos area, I pay about double what my contractor would pay for similar work. I do this on the basis that it is short term work and I may or may not have more work for him in the future.

Then again, I paid one guy US$15 for about one hour of work to haul some heavy furniture up three flight of stairs by himself during the heat and humidity of August so I wouldn't have to do it. It was the best $15 I ever spent!!!!!!! This same guy is always asking me if I need any help. I guess I overpaid him.

I know one Mexican guy who works as a concierge at a local hotel. He tells me that he expects and usually gets US$1 to US$2 per bag for transportation to a room. However, sometimes he gets nothing and he spreads the word around about that guest. So that guest can never find a staff person when he wants something. What does this have to do with hiring day labor? Nothing, other than if you don't pay enough, the word gets around and everyone is suddenly too busy to work for you.

Whether someone is on SS or not, has nothing to do with paying a fair wage to a Mexican laborer who certainly has a lower standard of living than probably anyone on this Forum. My philosophy is that I incur many benefits by living in Baja. Therefore, I have no problem with paying more than the going local rate for labor and increasing the standard of living as one way to pay for all those benefits I receive here. But that's just me, others should do what makes them feel most comfortable.

Lindalou - 4-12-2008 at 09:24 AM

oxxo, thank you for this information.

Lindalou - 4-12-2008 at 09:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mulegemichael
Just a short couple of years ago, the going rate for service folks down south, (la ribera), was $70 pesos a day...hard to believe..I'm sure it's more now. Just about everywhere that I've lived down there recently,(mulege), the hourly rate varies between $40-$50 pesos an hour for general laborers,gardeners,housecleaners,etc..more for skilled laborers. I think that pretty much addresses the original question.
Thank you

Lindalou - 4-12-2008 at 09:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mulegemichael
Just a short couple of years ago, the going rate for service folks down south, (la ribera), was $70 pesos a day...hard to believe..I'm sure it's more now. Just about everywhere that I've lived down there recently,(mulege), the hourly rate varies between $40-$50 pesos an hour for general laborers,gardeners,housecleaners,etc..more for skilled laborers. I think that pretty much addresses the original question.
I just reread you post. While we were living on the beach at Santispac our neighbor (lots of money) had housekeepers in at least twice a week, she paid them $3.00 us an hour. That was two years ago. We have friends here that have housekeepers that they pay $3.50 an hour. I had one in the US when I worked full time that I paid $10 an hour and that was more then 10 years ago. Just an observation.

DENNIS - 4-12-2008 at 10:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert

But when price is established in advance and the job is not done correctly you have a real challenging negotiation after the fact.:P


Just try to withhold pay for reasons of quality workmanship. Your problems will have just begun, the first of which would be isues of his unpaid social security. Nobody in the government will give you the least ammount of understanding. You will pay, and pay, and pay.
Know who you hire, at least through recommendations, and establish the price before the work begins. Why does that sound so unreasonable to some here?

DENNIS - 4-12-2008 at 10:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RichnLinda
We have friends here that have housekeepers that they pay $3.50 an hour.


Everybody in Lomas, where you live, pays the cleaning lady 25 bucks, 8AM to noon. She has a work ethic that would shame an Oriental and she's trustworthy.

Lindalou - 4-12-2008 at 10:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by RichnLinda
We have friends here that have housekeepers that they pay $3.50 an hour.


Everybody in Lomas, where you live, pays the cleaning lady 25 bucks, 8AM to noon. She has a work ethic that would shame an Oriental and she's trustworthy.
Wow, I think I will hire my friends housekeeper :) My friend lives at Rancho Packard.

Paulina - 4-12-2008 at 12:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by RichnLinda
We have friends here that have housekeepers that they pay $3.50 an hour.


Everybody in Lomas, where you live, pays the cleaning lady 25 bucks, 8AM to noon. She has a work ethic that would shame an Oriental and she's trustworthy.


Dennis,

Does she do windows? If so I'd like to get her name, that is if she has any time left after taking care of the Lomas crew.

P<*)))><

DENNIS - 4-12-2008 at 12:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Paulina

Dennis,

Does she do windows? If so I'd like to get her name, that is if she has any time left after taking care of the Lomas crew.

P<*)))><


Yeah P, she does windows. I'll line you up with here when you're ready.
What happened with Dern? Is he on strike?

Paulina - 4-12-2008 at 02:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Paulina

Dennis,

Does she do windows? If so I'd like to get her name, that is if she has any time left after taking care of the Lomas crew.

P<*)))><


Yeah P, she does windows. I'll line you up with here when you're ready.
What happened with Dern? Is he on strike?



Dern does windows, but not the glass part, only the wood refinishing part. He says that his tour of duty doesn't begin until the end of June.

I'm wondering how many more years he's going to put up with the sanding and varnishing gig before he paints them when I'm not looking.

To keep on topic, I pay him with love. (He made me say that. I was going to talk the barter system.)

ja ja ja.

P<*)))><

Sharksbaja - 4-13-2008 at 01:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RichnLinda
Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Quote:

It will be the same way here, if someone wants too much money we will get someone else that a gringo hasn't ruined yet with too much pay


Just like California! Classic! :rolleyes:
What ever that means? :)


My reference was to that ideal found in SoCal. There are some disgruntled skilled laborers that cry foul at all the competition who came from Mexico. One example is the plethora of construction workers competing for decent wages.
The headnod was based on the presumtion that Mexicans work for less. That is unless they have been spoiled by a careless employer.;D

Sorry, I'm still trying to understand the context of the original post. The wording was/is easily misconstrued.

I think I get it.

I've hired people on quotes with a percent of cash up front, with the balance due on completion.. I have also paid by the job, by the hour, and other ways I'm sure.

It really is like the Trotters say. Each circumstance is different. I don't see an even pay scale in Baja .............for anythang!
:wow:

DENNIS - 4-13-2008 at 06:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
I've hired people on quotes with a percent of cash up front, with the balance due on completion.. I have also paid by the job, by the hour, and other ways I'm sure.



That's another thing. Will you pay a percentage up front if you are buying all of the materials? Many workers want it but, I won't. I pay for the job, or an agreed upon percentage of the job, finished.

Pescador - 4-13-2008 at 08:19 AM

Well Rich and Linda, guess you can see from about 9,000 years of experience on this board that your question is a totally moving target. The area has a big influence on the answer and the more "touristy" the area, the higher the prices generally are. In our small village we pay about 150 pesos per day for unskilled and around 250 for more skilled labor and generally about 100 pesos for a 1/2 day housecleaner. In areas like Mulege and Loreto, our friends report much higher wages are the norm.
David is sort of right about getting an estimate beforehand, but we found out that a lot of construction people would go with an estimate and then when you were about half way done they would come back and explain that the increase in cost of materials and labor would not allow them to finish the job for the pre-agreed on price. So you generally have to step up to the higher price if you want the job to ever get completed.
So the final answer is very clear, it changes almost daily and the best you can do is to go with the flow and a good deal is a good deal if both people are satisfied at the completion. I find it amusing that we bring our Gringo attitudes and rules with us and try to change the way things are done in Mexico. Seems as though we really do want to change things into what we were trying to get away from in the first place.

rts551 - 4-13-2008 at 08:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pescador


So the final answer is very clear, it changes almost daily and the best you can do is to go with the flow and a good deal is a good deal if both people are satisfied at the completion. I find it amusing that we bring our Gringo attitudes and rules with us and try to change the way things are done in Mexico. Seems as though we really do want to change things into what we were trying to get away from in the first place.


AMEN Pescador!!!!!!!

bajamigo - 4-13-2008 at 09:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RichnLinda
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by RichnLinda
We have friends here that have housekeepers that they pay $3.50 an hour.


Everybody in Lomas, where you live, pays the cleaning lady 25 bucks, 8AM to noon. She has a work ethic that would shame an Oriental and she's trustworthy.
Wow, I think I will hire my friends housekeeper :) My friend lives at Rancho Packard.


If your friend owns the Cliff House, the $3.50/hr is just the tip of the iceberg. The young lady receives a great deal of financial and moral support from the owners. I couldn't begin to guess what that translates to in dollars/hour.

BTW, most people in Rancho Packard typically pay their cleaning help $30/per day, which runs roughly 4-41/2 hours. We pay ours $30 for Saturday, another $15 for a couple of hours on Wednseday afternoon, and $20 for her son who does gardening work while she's here on Saturday. We all think that's fair.

Lindalou - 4-13-2008 at 11:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajamigo
Quote:
Originally posted by RichnLinda
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by RichnLinda
We have friends here that have housekeepers that they pay $3.50 an hour.


Everybody in Lomas, where you live, pays the cleaning lady 25 bucks, 8AM to noon. She has a work ethic that would shame an Oriental and she's trustworthy.
Wow, I think I will hire my friends housekeeper :) My friend lives at Rancho Packard.
Yes, I am aware of that. I was told by Alicia the only way she would let me hire her was that I could only pay her the $3.50. We asked if we could tip her (sorry Dennis :)) and she said no.

If your friend owns the Cliff House, the $3.50/hr is just the tip of the iceberg. The young lady receives a great deal of financial and moral support from the owners. I couldn't begin to guess what that translates to in dollars/hour.

BTW, most people in Rancho Packard typically pay their cleaning help $30/per day, which runs roughly 4-41/2 hours. We pay ours $30 for Saturday, another $15 for a couple of hours on Wednseday afternoon, and $20 for her son who does gardening work while she's here on Saturday. We all think that's fair.

Sharksbaja - 4-13-2008 at 11:20 AM

Yes, it all had to do with Hurricane John. Before the flood average hourly wage was $3.50ish. Now it is $5.00ish. That ain't a whole lot lower than some US states.:wow:

[Edited on 4-13-2008 by Sharksbaja]

DENNIS - 4-13-2008 at 03:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pescador
David is sort of right about getting an estimate beforehand, but we found out that a lot of construction people would go with an estimate and then when you were about half way done they would come back and explain that the increase in cost of materials and labor would not allow them to finish the job for the pre-agreed on price. So you generally have to step up to the higher price if you want the job to ever get completed.


That is complete nonsense. Why would you subject yourself to that?
You buy the materials. You do anyway. Don't allow materials to be a part of the cost of labor. What the expert is selling to you is labor. Keep it simple and pay for his expertise. You people who complicate this contract are the cause of confusion in the workplace.
Total BS what you folks do just trying to get a simple job done. You turn it into a cultural event.

durrelllrobert - 4-14-2008 at 09:01 AM

Quote:
You buy the materials. You do anyway. Don't allow materials to be a part of the cost of labor.

But the mark-up on materials is 90% of the "contractor's:lol:"
net profit margin

Skipjack Joe - 4-14-2008 at 09:53 AM

I had an interesting experience in Abreojos recently reflecting the way things are sometimes done in Mexico.

After 10 days on the road we needed to have our clothes washed. We were directed to a home with a washer dryer out back and I rang the doorbell. I showed her the laundry and the lady told me sure she would do it but simply refused to quote a price. I would find out AFTER the work was done. I came to the realization that we were being placed in a position where we might not get our belongings back at all unless I came up with the cash the woman decided the following day. At that point we said our goodbyes and left.

I've never experienced anything like it before. I feel we were targeted as gringos with this business offer as I couldn't see anyone accepting such terms.

vandenberg - 4-14-2008 at 10:10 AM

Skipjack,
I can see your apprehension with this kind of transaction, but in cases like this I have never heard of anybody feeling ripped off. Likely, the lady does the laundry slightly different then the way gringos do it. You would ,likely, find all your clothing ironed, possibly even your underwear, everything neatly folded, socks sorted (reason I buy mine 24 pair at a time, so don't have to hunt for one ) and in general, done different then what we're used to. That way she could better determine her reward by figuring her time spend on that job.
I doubt very much you would have been dissatisfied had you gone for the job.

rts551 - 4-14-2008 at 12:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
I had an interesting experience in Abreojos recently reflecting the way things are sometimes done in Mexico.

After 10 days on the road we needed to have our clothes washed. We were directed to a home with a washer dryer out back and I rang the doorbell. I showed her the laundry and the lady told me sure she would do it but simply refused to quote a price. I would find out AFTER the work was done. I came to the realization that we were being placed in a position where we might not get our belongings back at all unless I came up with the cash the woman decided the following day. At that point we said our goodbyes and left.

I've never experienced anything like it before. I feel we were targeted as gringos with this business offer as I couldn't see anyone accepting such terms.


Skipjack

Do you know the name of the lady? If so send me a U2U.
Strange because most of the people would be more than willing to give you a price.

Ralph

[Edited on 4-14-2008 by rts551] for spelling

[Edited on 4-14-2008 by rts551]

Skipjack Joe - 4-14-2008 at 02:58 PM

I responded to this thread because I see things a bit differently than some.

From my point of view all of these things stem from the same cultural approach to life:

1. Police inventing violations to pick up a little extra cash.
2. Gas stations selling less gas than the client is paying for.
3. Workers readjusting their pay after job is initiated.
4. People exchanging money at less than the exchange rate to pick up a bit extra cash.
5. Laundry lady not quoting price so that she can charge as she wishes at later date.

The problem is epidemic. You can't just say this case is fine because that's the way it's done here but later complain about being fleeced when going through Ensenada. Dishonesty is dishonesty no matter what the act. As long as this attitude remains there will always be corruption in their government and Mexico will remain a thirld world country envying it's neighbors and trying to get in.

We don't go to baja because this is somehow refreshingly different. We go to baja in spite of this.

End of rant ......

[Edited on 4-14-2008 by Skipjack Joe]

Pescador - 4-14-2008 at 04:18 PM

Amen Igor, when they finally ruin all the fishing this place will be a ghost peninsula as far as I am concerned. The cultural experience I can have in Colorado and not drive so far but there I have to settle for catching trout and Crappie. Yuck!

Osprey - 4-14-2008 at 07:16 PM

Skip, "the cultural approach to life" -- you don't understand it sometimes, other times you don't like it, feel threatened. Great idea if you don't subject your son to this kind of treatment. How about Jellystone?