BajaNomad - Baja guidebook plagerism?

Baja guidebook plagerism?

Ken Cooke - 4-12-2008 at 10:34 PM

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSSYD21440120080413

A writer for the Lonely Planet guidebook series admitted that he didn't even travel to some of the countries that he submitted information for in his books. I have not read the Lonely Planet guidebook on Baja (if there is one), but the author is such an important aspect of the guidebook. I hope we never have this happen to us since Baja (Norte and Sur) are such large states and receiving bad info would suck.

DianaT - 4-12-2008 at 10:44 PM

What is even worse, IMHO, are maps that don't have a clue. We lost all faith in AAA maps after living in Central America. Their map was not only incorrect, it was dangerous.

It showed dirt roads as major highways, and some highways that did not exist at all. Our favorite was one road they showed out to the east coast of Honduras that was a swamp---not even a trail.

Tour books should, IMHO, always been taken with a grain of salt. We have used the Lonely Planet books for a number of countries, but only as a guide. Things change quickly.

The information in the Lonely Planet for Baja is interesting and some of it is quite good---again, it is just a guide. It is certainly not something one would use for the real off-road adventures.

Diane

Ken Cooke - 4-12-2008 at 11:01 PM

I was amazed that this book could be had for just 1 penny!?!

Amazon - Baja Guidebook for 1 cent.

[Edited on 4-13-2008 by Ken Cooke]

DianaT - 4-12-2008 at 11:09 PM

That is not the Lonely Planet one we have used in the past. I guess we just can't be too harsh on the Lonely Planet because it did lead us to some places we really loved.

Mission San Javier
Agua Verde
and the dirt road from La Purisima back to Highway 1

and more.

So while it is not perfect, combined with other information, it is a valuable resource. But I guess we are biased since we have also used the Lonely Panet series for the mainland of Mexico and countries in Central and South America and have not been disappointed.

Ken Cooke - 4-12-2008 at 11:14 PM

My "Colombia" and "Peru" Lonely Planet guidebooks have been accurate. No complaints.

The Lonely Planet writer [Thomas Kohnstamm] produced a critique on the travel guidebook industry with, "Do Travel Writers Go to Hell?: A Swashbuckling Tale of High Adventures, Questionable Ethics, and Professional Hedonism"

Review
After pursuing an advanced degree in Latin American studies, Kohnstamm reluctantly took a position as a researcher at a large Wall Street firm. The restless author quickly tired of the corporate drudgery and, after some hesitation, accepted an assignment to update Lonely Planet's guidebook on Brazil. The resulting book (a "chronicle [of] events that took me from bourgeoisie working stiff with a repressed travel habit to a full-time mercenary travel hack, with all the good, bad, and surreal chit that it entails") is a wonderfully picaresque journey through the vibrant Brazilian landscape. Following a marathon bender through the streets of Manhattan with his friend, "the Doctor" (one of the book's many parallels to the work of Hunter S. Thompson), Kohnstamm departed for Rio de Janeiro with little more than his laptop and a few changes of clothes. He awoke the first morning in bed with Inga, a Lufthansa stewardess who proved to be one of many female companions bedded by Kohnstamm, who comes off here as quite the Casanova. Amidst the hard partying and endless nights, however, the author began to realize the difficulty of gathering adequate information about the countless locales he must visit. With his paltry funds dwindling, he reached out to previous Lonely Planet scribes, most of whom were far from reassuring: "Remember that if you are in your room at night writing, you aren't doing enough bar research." Along the way he befriended numerous memorable characters: Nils, a baggage handler from Copenhagen and singer for a grunge band, Synthetic Jesus; Inara, a Brazilian beauty who shares an apartment with the author for a couple of weeks (and who turns out to be a prostitute of sorts); Otto, formerly of the Israeli Defense Force; Mr. Yay, so named for his prodigious coke habit; and Bobby, from whom the author buys Ecstasy tablets in an effort to make some quick cash. Readers will relish the countless stories of the author's misadventures, but Kohnstamm brings more than just anecdotes: He offers a solid understanding of the mechanics of the travel-writing industry and a unique ability to illuminate that world to readers.

Notable for its spirited prose and insightful exploration of the less-romantic side of travel writing. Kohnstamm is one to watch.

Mango - 4-13-2008 at 02:49 AM

I've had generally good experience with Lonely Planet Guidebooks("Mexico", "Yucatan, Guatemala & Belize"); although, I once met a fellow traveler who told me about an author for Lonely Planet that he met that was writing up stuff merely from brochures out in the field. The writer told my traveler friend that there was no way they could go/see/do everything listed in the book and that they often just update sections.

I have used Moon guidebooks ("Mexico City", "Oaxaca", and "Baja") and have a few others by other publishers. I've found the culture/history write-ups in the Moon guides to be more complete than the LP; but, the Moon guide often seem to list only the more pricey places to stay and eat.

When traveling by bus, the LP guidebooks are the way to go. They have the best information about time, approximate cost, available bus lines, and bus station locations of any guidebook I have.

I also have a Blue Guide to Mexico, which has great information about architecture, culture, and history of Mexico; but nothing about places to stay or eat and does not have a single photo in the whole book. It's great when cross referencing and researching at home; but, I leave it home every time.

As others have said. You really have to take guidebooks with a grain of salt. I've often arrived at a little town to find four or five people -guidebooks in hand- at the same little hotel that was a hidden gem and was cheap.. and now expensive and booked full. Now I usually just goto the center of town, refer to my guidebook for a few options, and shop for a good hotel. I almost always ask to see a room first and will often visit 2 or 3 hotels in one little neighborhood before I settle on one. Often a much better room can be had for less just by looking or asking around.

bajajudy - 4-13-2008 at 07:43 AM

Ken
Just to set the record straight, the cover of the guide book that you have inserted is the 7th edition. Getting the 4th edition for a cent is hardly a deal.
I cant comment on whether the author went every place in the book but he has a wonderful section on characters from Baja in the front of the book which includes Coco, Juanita in San Ignacio, to name a few.
The edition that you have pictured seems accurate and it is the most recent guide book on Baja available at this time. We feel that it is Lonely Planet's best effort on Baja to date.

Oso - 4-13-2008 at 08:04 AM

I've misplaced the LP guide to Baja many years ago but I remember two things; one was a sniffing anti-hunter comment about San Quintin and the gringos who go there to murder Brandt, the other was in regard to La Bufadora- "Everyone goes there. No one knows why."

David K - 4-13-2008 at 08:29 AM

Too bad they don't make 'em as good as this one was (1956-1970).

nomad 018.jpg - 48kB

Ken Cooke - 4-13-2008 at 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajajudy
Ken
Just to set the record straight, the cover of the guide book that you have inserted is the 7th edition. Getting the 4th edition for a cent is hardly a deal.

Thanks for clarifying that. I remember seeing the 7th edition at the Barnes and Noble bookstore, while I was purchasing the Peru guidebook. I'll keep an eye open for the 7th edition in the future.

David K - 4-13-2008 at 08:33 AM

The Cliff Cross Baja Guide (1970-1974) was very popular and had 'bird's eye view' maps that everyone could read and see the area.

books 001.jpg - 46kB

Ken Cooke - 4-13-2008 at 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Too bad they don't make 'em as good as this one was (1956-1970).

Thanks for recommending this title to me, David. Its definitely the original, and you can feel the 1950s dust hanging in the air while the writer painstakingly entered every word on his typewriter.

David K - 4-13-2008 at 08:41 AM

Tom Miller was known as 'Sr. Baja' with his highly successful series 'The Baja Book' 1974 (first edition). It used satellite photograhs as a base for the maps. Tom co-authored three editions (1974, 1979, 1987) and after he passed away, Ginger Potter produced the final edition 'Baja Book IV' in 1996.

books 002.jpg - 45kB

David K - 4-13-2008 at 08:45 AM

La Siesta Publications owner and backcountry writer Walt Wheelock worked with Howard Gulick and updated the Lower California Guidebook to include the new highways and changes in Baja... and renamed the title, in 1975:

books.jpg - 45kB

Ken Bondy - 4-13-2008 at 08:50 AM

Here's another good one, particularly for pilots, published first in 1974. I discovered San Francisquito from this book:

[Edited on 4-13-2008 by Ken Bondy]

David K - 4-13-2008 at 08:54 AM

Thanks Ken... my copy has lost the cover and is pretty well in pieces... but tons of aerial photos, for sure!

Speaking of aerial photos... the pilots had a great friend in Arnold Senterfitt with his many editions of 'Airports of Baja'!

Here is my 1972 edition:

books 026.jpg - 40kB

David K - 4-13-2008 at 08:59 AM

Jim Hunter's 1977 book was a great guide to off road Baja... Many, many off highway roads not found in other guidebooks made 'Offbeat Baja' a great aid in seeing more of the peninsula. The roads to Mision Santa Maria, the Concepcion Bay peninsula, the remote Pacific (7 sisters), and many more were well described...

nomad 016.jpg - 48kB

David K - 4-13-2008 at 05:26 PM

Another great specialty guide is Patti and Tom Higginbotham's 1996 'Backroad Baja' covering many great side trips in central Baja from Bahia de los Angeles to Bahia Agua Verde and west to the Pacific...

books 020.jpg - 32kB

Ken Cooke - 4-13-2008 at 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Another great specialty guide is Patti and Tom Higginbotham's 1996 'Backroad Baja' covering many great side trips in central Baja from Bahia de los Angeles to Bahia Agua Verde and west to the Pacific...

Backroad Baja is so personalized by the authors, there's no way they could have plagerized it.

Mango - 4-13-2008 at 05:57 PM

David K, as always I'm impressed with your vast collection of books regarding Baja.

As I'm sure many of us have found out over the years... there really is no single guidebook that covers it all and covers it adequately for every purpose and person.

I am sure almost everyone regularly refers to multiple books and maps before each trip. It's all part of the fun. Ogling over various maps, researching where that mystery road goes to that you past by on a previous trip, figuring out why that church only had one tower, etc... It's all about collecting information on the current and past conditions and history of places we have been or hope to be at soon.

Thanks again everyone for sharing. I regularly find many hidden gems and information here at Baja Nomad.

David K - 4-13-2008 at 08:11 PM

Thanks Mango for the kind words...

Even though Ken was concerned about the Lonely Planet Baja guide being less than honest, it seemed like an opportunety to mention the other, older Baja guides that first helped us to find adventures!

I didn't mention some of the newer guides yet, but 'The Baja Adventure Book' and '...of Sea and Sand' are full of awersome details for the off highway folks.

Then there are the plant, animal, and geology guides, as well!

I am here to help share what I have collected over the past 40+ years with you all who love Baja and seek to learn of her mysteries and treasures!

mailedD2.jpg - 21kB

CaboRon - 5-10-2008 at 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke

I was amazed that this book could be had for just 1 penny!?!

Amazon - Baja Guidebook for 1 cent.

[Edited on 4-13-2008 by Ken Cooke]

Ken,

Seldom do things sell for the opening/min bid. Have you tracked this book to see what it is acturlly going for .?

CaboRon

Udo - 5-10-2008 at 07:57 AM

The best collection of BAJA books I have seen in one place (Amazon notwithstanding because you have to seach for a book) is DISCOVER BAJA.
Being Baja veterans comes from our adventurous spirits, however, guide books from THE DISCOVER BAJA membership have helped in determining where we travel to, and let's see what we find in between.

capt. mike - 5-10-2008 at 07:59 AM

Tom and Patti are 2 of the nicest people you could ever meet in baja.

that book Ken showed was one of my 1st guides and i discovered many places to compliment what i learned from Arnold's guides. Later it got damaged from spilled plastic cleaner in my baggage section - so i got a 2nd via DK here. thx DK.

Ken Cooke - 5-10-2008 at 08:02 AM

That particular book is selling for .01 + $3.95 shipping. Amazon is great in that you're not bidding, and the price is set.

mulegemichael - 5-10-2008 at 02:23 PM

We've found Backroad Baja to be accurate, personal and a fun read....Tom and Patty are fabulous folk that truly spend an inordinate amount of time mapping and experiencing the "backroads" of the place we love. We want to go to all of the places they've written about over the years.

CaboRon - 5-11-2008 at 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oso
in regard to La Bufadora- "Everyone goes there. No one knows why."

It is kind of a dissapointment after the sales pitch.

CaboRon

David K - 5-11-2008 at 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mulegemichael
We've found Backroad Baja to be accurate, personal and a fun read....Tom and Patty are fabulous folk that truly spend an inordinate amount of time mapping and experiencing the "backroads" of the place we love. We want to go to all of the places they've written about over the years.

Please let them know that we (at least me) on Baja Nomad rank their book as one of the best Baja guides... I wished they covered more of Baja with their research!

Thanks

rockman - 8-31-2008 at 03:32 PM

I have some manuscripts by Howard Gulick that I acquired from Walt Wheelock (we were neighbors in Glendale). Two of them are incomplete, so I am wondering if someone may have copies containing the parts missing from mine.

#1: "Pictorial Record of Baja California Mission Sites". this is 10 pages of text, tables and maps. One of the tables refers to 38 photos that should be part of this document, but are missing from my copy. This manuscript is undated, but one of the sketch maps is dated 1960.

#2: "Revisions to Write-up of Baja California Mission Trails", December, 1959.
This is a re-write of a previous manuscript in my collection dated 1954. My copy of the 1954 version is complete, but the 1959 version ends abruptly in mid sentence on page 22. Both the content and the order of sections differ from one version to the other, so I do not know how much is missing.

Any help will be appreciated.

I still have many duplicate books, journals, magazines relating to Baja and the SW, so ask for my tradelist/wantlist. I also have indexes to Baja articles in Desert mag, San Diego Historical Soc, Calif Academy of Sciences, etc - free by email.

Sharksbaja - 9-1-2008 at 01:39 AM

Great thread! Thanks for contributing the intersting guidebooks. I wish I could look thu them.

TMW - 9-1-2008 at 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdtrotter
What is even worse, IMHO, are maps that don't have a clue. We lost all faith in AAA maps after living in Central America. Their map was not only incorrect, it was dangerous.

It showed dirt roads as major highways, and some highways that did not exist at all. Our favorite was one road they showed out to the east coast of Honduras that was a swamp---not even a trail.

Tour books should, IMHO, always been taken with a grain of salt. We have used the Lonely Planet books for a number of countries, but only as a guide. Things change quickly.

The information in the Lonely Planet for Baja is interesting and some of it is quite good---again, it is just a guide. It is certainly not something one would use for the real off-road adventures.

Diane

Diane did you notify AAA of the mistakes? I think whenever we find AAA maps to be seriously wrong we should notify them. The only thing I have noticed about the Baja AAA map is that over the years they have been deleting trails/dirt roads.

woody with a view - 9-1-2008 at 10:52 AM

Quote:

and the dirt road from La Purisima back to Highway 1

this road is not to be taken lightly. many rock hopping uphill sections now with all of the rains of the past few summers. beware.

DianaT - 9-1-2008 at 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW

Quote:

Yes, we did notify them and they really seemed not to care. We showed agents in an office, we sent letters and e-mails, and nothing. A few years after being in Central America, we happened to be in an AAA office. We picked up the same old map and AGAIN showed it to one of the agents---his comment was, well, they try.

But then again, the map we bought in Guatemala shows Belize as a part of Guatemala, just another state---always has been wishful thinking on their part. :lol:

We always traveil to unknown places with more than one map.

Diane

[Edited on 9-1-2008 by jdtrotter]