BajaNomad - DEATHS DUE TO SHODDY CONSTRUCTION

DEATHS DUE TO SHODDY CONSTRUCTION

bajajazz - 5-4-2008 at 01:22 PM

I have been told that two albanils were killed and eight others injured when a wall collapsed in a condominium project they were working on in La Paz last Thursday, May 1st. The location was somewhere near Colina del Sol, or between there and Lomas de Palmira. Does anyone know the details of this event?

Also, 13 owners of properties in the new BellaTerra development just below Lomas de Palmira are in a headline- making feud with the project's architect regarding the absence of promised services, water, sewer, etc. It must indeed be profoundly disconcerting to spend 200 dollars a square meter for a lot, then build a house valued at another 450 to 650 thousand dollars and find out there are no services to supply the house systems.

The crappy quality of the rampant building and the outright scams going on around us is of concern to those of us whose property values are being degraded by their proximity. We have watched some new construction with a certain amount of dismay mixed with amusement, e.g., bricks that are mostly sand laid with a thin gruel of mortar with no concern for levelling, the slipshod work finally covered over with a thin coat of plaster that may or may not survive the first hurricane.

But now that on-the-job deaths are occurring as a result of this lousy construction there's nothing at all funny about it anymore. If the stories I've heard are true someone is guilty of negligent homicide. Does anyone in a position of authority care?

David K - 5-4-2008 at 03:28 PM

What are "albanils" ?

jodiego - 5-4-2008 at 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
What are "albanils" ?

Albanils are masons.

sd - 5-4-2008 at 03:32 PM

Albanils are Masons.

I didn't know either.

David K - 5-4-2008 at 03:42 PM

Thanks Jo... I hope that wasn't a Free Mason secret that you revealed!

The Truth

CaboRon - 5-4-2008 at 04:15 PM

The Truth is:

The masons are not masons ...

The electricians are not electricans ...

The plumbers are outragious ...

And the painters don"t know prep ...

And all of this exists because there is no trade apprentiship and there is NO LISCESING of trade personel.

I just watched a thirty year verten (so he says) elec/plumber distroy a new casa. He may have had years of experience, they were based on years of doing it wrong.

The most common reply by workman I have heard this year is "We have always done it this way" and "It is easier for us to do it this way" both unacceptable answers to legitimate questions.

They desperately need testing and liscencing ....

But, it will never happen , so homebuilder beware ... watch their every move ... inspect each procedure before alowing them to move on to the next project ...

Because, YOU will have to pay to make it all right ...

And there is basically no recourse or recovery.

Oh well,

That's all I had to say,

Just a thought,

CaboRon

You can let me have it now :saint:

bajalera - 5-4-2008 at 04:45 PM

A couple of years ago we had a so-called plumber who grounded a wire to a plastic pipe.

CaboRon - 5-4-2008 at 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalera
A couple of years ago we had a so-called plumber who grounded a wire to a plastic pipe.

It's only funny if you don't burn out your two thousand dollar computer ..... or your refridgerator .... or burn down the house ....

CaboRon

vgabndo - 5-4-2008 at 05:55 PM

I'm a certified real estate home inspector. It is better up north, but I still see things that would fit right in south of the border. :lol:

Iflyfish - 5-4-2008 at 08:03 PM

When our $20,000 brain mapping and neurofeedback equipment blew, it was an "act of God", really dumb god there, didn't connect the ground wire for the entire complex. It was hanging over the post that it was supposed to be attached to. I heard from the mouth of an "electrician" that "we don't connect that wire down here, they only do that in the North". So there you go!

Having said that I have seen some amazing and creative constrution down there that one could only call "art". I saw a Culapo (sp?), a rounded, circulare ceiling, layed out by sight and put up without any measurements. Beautiful brick work. Go figure!

Iflyfish

Roberto - 5-4-2008 at 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by morgaine7

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
And all of this exists because there is no trade apprentiship and there is NO LISCESING of trade personel.

Actually, there is trade apprenticeship. I'm sure you've noticed that the work crews on your construction projects include younger men, likely as not relatives of the maestro. They probably do menial tasks if they're new, but those who are more experienced may do advanced work under supervision. You can sometimes hear the maestro explaining particular techniques to the others as he works.

Kate

Of course there is. What we have is a typical example of a gringo (and I use that term appropriately) moving south because it's cheap, who has no appreciation of the fact that things DO get done differently. What would you figure CaboRon would score on the language comprehension test? My guess is he speaks no Spanish, and sits back criticizing ***** ****** 24/7. Any takers?

This is the same guy who, for a couple months, posted "NEVER STOP IN BAJA NORTE". Turns out, Baja Norte was a self-designated area between the Border and Maneadero, and even THAT is pretty f'ing funny (or sad, depending on your perspective).

[Edited on 5-5-2008 by Hose A]

stanburn - 5-5-2008 at 04:17 AM

According a an albañil I have used before, the apprentice period is 15 years.

CaboRon - 5-5-2008 at 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

Quote:

Originally posted by CaboRon
I live here because it is beautiful and cheap ....

And you certainly picked the capital of CHEAP in Todos Santos!

What's the price of booze over there Rum, uh Ron? :lol:

Roberto,

So, slander is your specialty ? What a low life.

Don't know what the price of booze is because I seldom drink.

And what would that have to do with shoddy construction in Baja California ?

Do you even live in Mexico ?

Have you ever built a house here only to have your valuable electronics destroyed because of cave man electricians ?

I notice you don't post your residence in the column to the left.

You are probably sitting in the states acting like you are some kind of authority on Mexico.

Maybe you should llive here full tilme, and you will get a sense of the reality.

And Roberto, There is no place for personel attacks in civil discussion.

CaboRon

rob - 5-5-2008 at 08:35 AM

The wall in question was a 40x4m dividing wall between a SAAB and Associados project and DECOPE on Colinas del Sol. Apparently plans called for a full (presumably with foundation) retaining wall, but only a "standard" block wall was built on sloping ground.

According to a source in the Cruz Rojo, 4 dead and 20 hurt.

Fingers are flying.

ElFaro - 5-5-2008 at 11:37 AM

My neighbor who is Mexican and works for the U.S. govt. at the border was building an addition to dbl. the size of his house back in 2004 before the Harris fire burned it all to the ground in Oct. 2007. He is always looking for ways to cut corners and try to save $'s in everything even though it ends up costing him more in the end. So at the start of the addition project (2004) he hires through a friend of a friend a Mexican guy (Tresero) from Tijuana who had done some minor room addition work but had never really taken on a project that was essentially the building of a house. This guy doesn't speak any English. My neighbor acting as owner/builder has Tresero doing all phases of the project...foundation, framing, flooring, plumbing, electrical, drywall/plaster, stucco, roofing, windows/doors, counters/cabinets, finish work, etc. Tresero has experience at some things but is a master at none. He has minimal hand tools and almost no elec. tools. He was not up to the latest code changes and requirements for those building in the fire prone areas of back country San Diego. Since my neighbor was NOT privy to the building codes and relied on Tresero, he simply built things the only way he knew and then they called the bldg. inspector to tell them what to correct !! It was unreal as Tresero had to go back time and again and either tear out shoddy work and redo it or he had to make laborious and costly corrections to satisfy the inspectors when he simply could have done it correct the first time!! After several months and just before final inspection Tresero and my neighbor have several arguments over payment and workmanship and results, etc. Tresero eventually bails for other work and leaves my neighbor in limbo as a bunch of requirements by the inspector are needed to be completed before final. In October 2007 the Harris fire roars through and wipes out my neighbor's house and addition before he could get final inspection. Unfortunately my neighbor thought he was going to get a great addition at bargain basement prices by going cheap with Tresero but he ended up paying more and losing in the end.

Kell-Baja - 5-8-2008 at 04:33 PM

There is no place for personal attacks in civil discussion.

:bounce:

Must say I do agree with this line.

bajalera - 5-9-2008 at 10:56 AM

Wrongo! There IS a place for personal attacks. Scroll down to Off Topics.

Eli - 5-9-2008 at 02:03 PM

Leara, every once and a while I get the urge to check out Off Topics, what is the secret pass word anyway? How do I log on there? I can't imagine why I would want to, but it bugs me not to have access.

vandenberg - 5-9-2008 at 02:05 PM

Eli

Over 6 and under 14 :lol:

Actually it's "over 18"

wilderone - 5-9-2008 at 02:32 PM

Eli - the PW is "over18" as indicated

bajarickster - 5-9-2008 at 03:53 PM

I live in Alltus 1 which is just below where this accident happened, In fact it was about 100m from my house. Alejandro Saab the developer (SAAB and Assoc) is an acquintance and also building a large home just below the accident area. The reported location and details are mostly correct, except for shoddy building materials. I was the 1st and still the only resident of Alltus 1 and have observed their construction practices for 6 months. While it seems chaotic at times and you wonder who's directing the show, the cement, block and rebar seem to meet or exceed even USA standards. My partner who has been building in Ca and Co for 30 yrs was down in March and he could not believe how good the construction was. He even took pictures to send back to his forman in Co.

The accident at Alltus II was extremely unfortunate, and having personally toured the scene, I think there may have problems with the slope and how far down the footings were, but not poor building materials.

On a personal note, I know all 100 construction guys working there. Not by name, but by face. I even cooked for all 100 3 different times and I'm sure the 2 killed and 6 injured were in my garage for comida the 1st 2 bbq's. They didn't make the 3rd, as it was 2 days after the accident and we observed the memorial service held on site. Alejandro Saab was extremely upset and saddened when we talked to him. I think he is building quality products, but the loss of 2 lives is extremely upsetting. 'nuf said

longlegsinlapaz - 5-9-2008 at 04:53 PM

Bajarickster, not intending to minimize the loss of life & injuries, but the point being made wasn't poor building materials, I read it as poor building technique. Huge difference! You can use the best materials available, but if they aren't put together for the job correctly & to a qualified engineers specifications, you end up with disaster in the making; sadly what happened here.

Dollars to donuts that the workers who build the wall that failed KNEW it should have had an appropriate footing for the degree of slope, but alas, as you pointed out, most building sights here are chaotic & unfortunately, it's not a cultural trait to challenge authority or to speak up when they see something happening that they KNOW is not correct or sufficient structurally. It's a recipe for disaster if there isn't a qualified quality control jefe watching every step of the way. That person needs to know how to read blueprints...as opposed to just looking at them; they need to be able to transfer the engineers structural specifications from the plan to reality & they cannot have a "Oh, that's good enough!" attitude.

I sincerely hope that SAAB applies some lessons learned the hard way to all his construction sites, for both his workers safety & his business reputation. The most beautiful casa with poor structural integrity is just another pretty face waiting for the next hurricane to come along....to expose it's ugly side.

IMHO, this wasn't an accident, but rather an inevitability.

805gregg - 5-10-2008 at 06:55 AM

Not sure if it's shoddy cost. but I was down at the tip when they were building the Westin, if you saw the quality of workers making the huge dust cloud on their way walking to work everyday, you wouldn't spend much time under that huge arch. Just saying.

[Edited on 5-10-2008 by 805gregg]

jodiego - 5-10-2008 at 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 805gregg
Not sure if it's shoddy cost. but I was down at the tip when they were building the Westin, if you saw the quality of workers making the huge dust cloud on their way walking to work everyday, you wouldn't spend much time under that huge arch. Just saying.

What's your point Greg? "The quality of workers...." Just what does that mean? Do they look like poor workers, lack of enthusiasm, dragging their feet, not rushing to the job sight despite making a "huge dust cloud". Please clarify.
:?:

rob - 5-10-2008 at 02:55 PM

Longlegs . . .according to my source, your statement is right on the bulls eye .. . it was a footings issue.